Yeah doesn't seem like you can because you didn't read any of the other posts and just blindly accusing me of saying lazy devs when that's not at all what I'm saying at all. So yeah game freaks are dropping the ball hard.
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Game Developers on Pokemon SwSh Pokedex Cuts: "I'm Surprised They Didn't Cut It Years Ago" [USgamer]
- Thread starter Lady Bow
- Start date
The models were successfully future proofed, though. They hold up perfectly fine in much higher resolutions (Pokemon Go) so a significant jump in power was definitely taken into account.
That says nothing about the rig itself though. For all we know importing led to issues like this:
The models are absurdly high poly, so if they had to redo anything beyond textures it was more likely a compatibility issue.
Adding extra Pokémon to official games? Let me see.
Easily done in gens I and II by using pokered and pokecrystal. In gen 3 it has been done for about 10 years now but used to involve tons of hex editing and other non beginner friendly tools, now that pokeruby and pokeemerald have taken off it seems it is much easier.
In gen 4 it has been done using again hex editors and general sprite editing tools.
From gen V on things got more complicated. Inserting a mon in BW isn't so much more difficult than in DPt but the problem is animating the sprite correctly.
In gen VI I've never seen anyone expand the dex but I've known of adding more Pokémon by (ironically in the case of this discussion) inserting it in another mon's slot, which used to be the first step towards actually expanding the dex in older gens. The hardest part is actually modelling and animating a custom creation, but since we have the models of the stuff we wanna add it might be simpler.
I never followed the scene in gen VII but it's safe to say it hasn't been done yet. However, sciresm tweeted about looking into it. I'm not sure if he was serious about it, but this person is responsible for magnethax (3DS hardware exploit that never was fixed), hacking the Switch early on, developing the Switch's first custom firmware and datamining most Pokémon games, but I'm not sure when exactly he begun doing that. But pretty much every learnset, stat, breeding list and such you find in Pokémon fansites was unearthed due to him or other hackers in his circle.
I honestly wouldn't doubt the dude in anything. At worst, he'll help us find out what do these models have that's given GF so much trouble.
The words you just said are literally synonyms for "lazy devs". If you recanted in later posts, go ahead and edit this one. I don't feel like combing through 19 pages.
You see, that's my point. I know people have been able to inject new creations and edited sprites into the games up to Gen IV, but as you said it yourself, from gen V on, it's not that simple. And if people had a hard time animating sprites, I don't know if animating 3d objects will be easier. The best case of modding I've seen was a fake Dragon-type Eeveelution that looked amazing, but it was just an idle animation in the stats screen (not in battle).
People might get the models into the game, that's probably not the hardest part.
But I have serious doubts that it will be on par with the rest of the game. It will be missing new textures, new animations, maybe the rig will be different. It's not going to be a simple job of just importing new meshes. Otherwise Game Freak would've just done that.
I'm not editing anything just because your are trying to pretend I said something that I didn't doesn't mean it's true. Game freak has dropped the ball hard with this game and the national dex issue.
It's worth reiterating that models aren't an issue. Sometimes they can be, but stylized Pokemon models ain't gonna have too many issues upscaling art-wise. They will look good. It's everything else that comes with it that makes it insanely hard.
Can you explain why how you think saying "someone doesn't want to put the work in" is *not* calling them lazy? That is THE DEFINITION OF LAZY.
I'm a developer and frankly, this shit is insulting. I don't care for you trying to deflect. Don't buy the game if you want, but the amount of effort for "only" many hundreds of Pokemon is insane. You have no idea how hard these people work.
Of course there isn't the expectation that the theoretical injected Pokémon would have parity with the dex ones. But honestly, looking at say, Scyther's raw texture, and picturing it among the Pokémon that had textures revamped, it doesn't seem so out of place. What would be missing is Dynamax and the camp feature animations, but even if hackers can't make the added mons impossible to use in these scenarios, they can assign them other animations, like, Dynamax Scyther would use it's idle animation when Dynamaxing instead of a unique one like Weavile's claws.
I'd love it, as camping as proposed on rumors like an Amie equivalent isn't something I care about. Not like my purchase is depending on if some hacker puts the old mons back in.
And in the context ot "look, see, you said it yourself it's hard!" like, it would be way harder if there weren't models already done? Which is the case people keep bringing up? Which then this thread uses as a gotcha "Hah! See models are hard!" Yes they are. And in my opinion having all mons in the game should be the stuff you start with, not develop a new engine because you want to support a new feature and then thousands of models become inviable.
That's why I disagree with the notion of "they found midway through that it wouldn't work and had no other option". No, they didn't. They are cutting content that increases the cost and time of development of the games they have to put out yearly, and that is a decision more focused on profit and ease of management. Making this call now lifts a lot of weight off their backs for the future entries. And unfortunetely that is a decision I don't want to support because that is not a direction I care about for the series. As a long time fan it hurts to sever ties to the franchise but after skipping USUM and LGPE, I should've seen this coming.
Many hundreds of people are hard at work making Pokemon games. Not liking the direction is understandable, so just say that instead of these thinly veiled lazy dev posts like "they're getting paid for only doing half their job" or "they don't want to put the work in". Is the positive affirmation you're aiming for worth it?
I'm sorry but I can't get behind what essentially boils down to "our customers are just too ignorant" as a defense. The models may be touched up but it's hardly noticeable in-game, and I would bet you money that the people playing Pokémon would rather have the full Pokédex with less of the touch ups than a mildly looking better game with only a third of the roster.
It's amazing how clearly the OP layed out just exactly how much work goes into just translating a single pokemon to HD hardware, much less hundreds upon hundreds, and yet people still come in and act like they know better than the people managing and working on these projects about how long it should take.
I wonder how much time the development team would have saved if they began to use one main engine for say 2 generations (XY + ORAS + SM), and then decided to move to a new one for the next few years. Because I can see consistent game engine updates being a problem that leads to consistent compatibility issues and wasted time trying to bridge compatibility.
OP
OP
Seeing some of the responses on each page, it's really easy to see who didn't read the OP.
Hopefully in the next Pokemon they can reach a good compromise.
Maybe a legacy pokemon TCG in the new games?
Maybe a legacy pokemon TCG in the new games?
The OP doesn't talk about what it takes to upgrade a Pokemon, it talks about what it takes to create one from scratch. It even quotes "This is all taken from a [2017 CGWorld feature] on the process of pokemon creation in Pokemon X and Y."
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I'm gonna say...in that case, stop making new Pokemon. The whole point is "Catching Them All". If I can't do that, and I can't trade new ones i, then what's the fucking point?
Come to that, future games should definitely allow me to trade Pokemon in from Sword/Shield. Having a limited Dex from here forward is...odd.
Come to that, future games should definitely allow me to trade Pokemon in from Sword/Shield. Having a limited Dex from here forward is...odd.
Finally...someone is talking about the real issue :P
New Pokémon not only sell the game but they push the franchise on in all other elements. No new Pokémon means the franchise stagnates
That's never been the whole point no matter how hard you want to push that narrative. You're encouraged to collect Pokemon, but catching them all was just you being sold on a marketing moniker, nothing to do with the original games intent.
I see this argument making the rounds and I feel like people need to realize the average Joe back in the late 90s, with limited internet, isn't going to know about localization differences for games. So when the series comes up with "Gotta Catch 'Em All", of course it's going to resonate with them.
If the flaw is that "Gotta Catch 'Em All" doesn't properly represent the core tenets of the series, then it's not really the average Joe's fault for remembering "Gotta Catch 'Em All," but rather the localization team for missing the point of the original phrase being "Let's Get Pokemon."
Thats irrelevant. It was never designed into the game as the sole intent. Its 2019 and we know the reason now.
No, but people also need to now accept, in this age of information dissemination, that while it may be the slogan in the west, it's not the slogan in the country it's developed in and isn't the design ideology
I won't dispute that nowadays it isn't much of a focus, but saying that catching 'em all was only a thing in the west is false. The primary objective of RBY, before even being introduced to the league, is to help Oak with his dream of completing the Pokédex, huge undertake in Pokémon history, such and such. So yeah, it was at the core of the franchise at foundation. It may not be a thing now, but used to be.
They said "the whole point" which is really far from the truth. Im sure they're well capable of shifting their own goalposts without others help.
Every single pokémon thread has been like that for a while. Lazy dev rethoric at its worst.
I just always see the same replies when people bring the collection aspect being important but never see anyone acknowledge that the game itself focused on it.
Also I could do without the passive aggressiveness, thank you very much.
Many people are calling them cheap, not the same as lazy. And we know they make bank
Do they though? Considering how many hands are in the pot and the amount of outsourcing that happens...
Well first off, expecting everyone to know that the marketing strategy they used for several years was apparently "a localization mistake" is a little weird. Whether that wasn't "what GameFreak and NCL intended in Japan" intended is irrelevant--that's how it was sold and marketed here. Both the opening and ending songs for the original Pokemon anime kept screaming at you GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL. You can't just now try to retcon something that's been perception for two decades.
If you wanna be an apologist for GF then have at it, but you'd do a lot better saying "that's simply way too much work for developers". I'll accept that.
its still never been the whole point when you play the games no matter how you spin it.
Well you know, the game was developed, released and marketed in Japan, and it's bein handled by a Japanese studio and a Japanese corporation so...
They also created things like the Pokemon Bank so you could trade your Pokemon from generation to generation.
It's gonna be hundreds of millions a year minimum. They have 33% profit sharing of the #1 grossing media franchise globally.
Hardcore fans (especially if they know Japanese), will already know this. But to expect casual fans to know this when they likely know of "Gotta Catch 'Em All" is very strange and lacking in self-awareness. If the script was flipped, no one would blame Japanese audiences for being more familiar to what they heard in Japanese, than doing the research for the original meaning of a phrase in its original language.
Again, this is a problem with the way the marketing and localization teams back then, handled the direction of how they were going to market this franchise to western audiences. It's very ass backwards to blame fans for not knowing about "Let's Get Pokemon", than to criticize the poor localization of that phrase.
That's a quick goalpost moving you did just now. You were saying that the game was marketed in a certain way in the west so they have to honor it. Not only it has been a while since they stopped using the gotta catch'em all motto but also you're showing an outstanding egocentrism.
That motto was a localization error and hasn't been used since gen IV, deal with it already
And yes, i know about bank, i hae been paying it since launch, thanks for the info.
Revenue estimates determine Sun & Moon has made, since launch, $644m
Revenue != profit. You need to factor in costs: marketing, production, development, outsource contracts etc. as well as splitting profit between the various hands involved
They're not as affluent as people seem to think
Pretty much where I stand too. Pokémon has way too much legacy content, and it seems to mainly target folks who engage with post-game stuff, which I can imagine will not make up the majority of the fanbase. I'm surprised they kept it up for as long as they did.
It was in the last X and Y anime opening, Pikachu sings it in the Detective Pikachu movie, they had a band sing a song that they sent out with issues of Nintendo Power for Black and White where they repeated "Can't stop catchin' 'em all" over and over again. It's still used in English media. Maybe not for much longer though lol
The funny thing is that some people really think that GF really has 90 billion in the bank.
Again, western media is not the original marketing and has never been. Truth is, games dropped it long ago even in western entries and nothing you say will change anything about it. Catching them all stopped being the focus in September 2006.
It's been said before, but most of the US and UK adverts up to even last year were still using Gotta Catch Em All as a slogan. It's only this year they finally stopped that.
And their international Twitter page still uses Catching 'em all since 1996
If it's a localization error, they've been very slow in fixing it.
Listen, I don't really think it's that big of a deal, I just think it's silly to say they never use that slogan in the west anymore when they still do. It's even the Pokemon twitter bio currently.
It became a catchphrase so they've been using it incessantly, but my point is exactly that is only being used here.
Seriously in a thread based on developers' opinions, with developers taking an active role here, you guys are looking desesperate now.
My point is that the games doesn't now, not even the Let's Go remakes that feature only the original 151. That should speak for itself.
The writing has been on the wall for a while now.
And this is coming from someone that religiously pay the Bank annuality and has about 200 pokemon EV trained up to level 100 knowing that maybe a good percentage of them wont make the cut.