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FootyEra 19/20 Season |OT| CrowdNoise.mp3

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Podge293

Podge293

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Oct 25, 2017
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Sheepinator said:
Explain how it's "unbelievably stupid". Can't you just disagree and offer an alternative without being so condescending? Is cancelling the season and deciding things by committee fairer?
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Have you watched any football ever?

4 games can make a massive difference and if you think any club bar Liverpool would accept it then yes it deserves to be called out as incredibly stupid

Theres no need to offer additional alternatives. It's either finish the season or cancel it. Anything else is stupid

Actually I doubt even Liverpool would accept it cuz they'd also know its stupid
 
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

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Jul 25, 2018
28,193
Podge293 said:
Have you watched any football ever?

4 games can make a massive difference and if you think any club bar Liverpool would accept it then yes it deserves to be called out as incredibly stupid

Theres no need to offer additional alternatives. It's either finish the season or cancel it. Anything else is stupid
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OK it seems you cannot simply disagree without being condescending. That's cleared that up.

You still haven't explained how cancelling it would be fairer than everyone having several more games to improve their position.

Look at the Premier League table. Watford at #17, Bournemouth at #18, separated by a GD of 1 goal. If you cancel the season, does Bournemouth get relegated? Villa are two points behind Watford and West Ham with a game in hand. They'd be relegated I suppose. Is that fair? If you let them play any more games they can at least fight for their positions on the pitch. But apparently that's "stupid".
 
Podge293

Podge293

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,760
Sheepinator said:
OK it seems you cannot simply disagree without being condescending. That's cleared that up.

You still haven't explained how cancelling it would be fairer than everyone having several more games to improve their position.

Look at the Premier League table. Watford at #17, Bournemouth at #18, separated by a GD of 1 goal. If you cancel the season, does Bournemouth get relegated? Villa are two points behind Watford and West Ham with a game in hand. They'd be relegated I suppose. Is that fair? If you let them play any more games they can at least fight for their positions on the pitch. But apparently that's "stupid".
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You cancel it and nobody gets relegated.

That's what cancelling means.

Villas last game of the season was set to be west ham. Who you point out are 2 points ahead of villa. So the last game of the season would have been incredibly important to them

In your "best" solution that game doesn't happen which is scandalous given its potential importance
 
Simon21

Simon21

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Apr 25, 2018
1,134
Yet to see any compelling reason why the current season can't be finished whenever safe to do so. Football will be disrupted in any case, and it's the only scenario that comes close to being fair.
 
Podge293

Podge293

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Oct 25, 2017
5,760
Simon21 said:
Yet to see any compelling reason why the current season can't be finished whenever safe to do so. Football will be disrupted in any case, and it's the only scenario that comes close to being fair.
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The most compelling reason is that players contracts end July 1.

Some teams, not all mind you, could lose key players. That'd be unfair

Also clubs might and some probably will go bust the longer this goes on. What happens their remaining ties? Or what happens their previous results?
 
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

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Jul 25, 2018
28,193
Podge293 said:
You cancel it and nobody gets relegated.

That's what cancelling means.

Villas last game of the season was set to be west ham. Who you point out are 2 points ahead of villa. So the last game of the season would have been incredibly important to them

In your "best" solution that game doesn't happen which is scandalous given its potential importance
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That would mean nobody gets promoted either. Leeds United and West Brom are both comfortably ahead in the Championship. I guess them not being promoted is fair to you.

Would it be ideal to play all 9 games? Of course, but if a compromise has to be made then playing any more games and giving clubs a chance to fight for their positions on the pitch is obviously fairer than screwing over teams who should get promoted, and also screwing over Man Utd who could move into 4th place with one more match played. How you can think letting clubs decide it on the pitch is "stupid" compared to deciding by committee who gets lucky and who gets screwed, I don't know. Because whether you cancel it like you say and don't promote any club, or if you just relegate Bournemouth and Villa despite being so close where one more match could change everything, you'd be deciding winners and losers by committee instead of on the pitch.

Simon21 The statement from Belgium:

In a statement, the Belgian Pro League said it was "very unlikely" to be able to hold matches in front of crowds before June 30 and that it had "unanimously decided that it was not desirable...to continue the competition" after that date.

Matches behind closed doors were "theoretically possible", but the league said it preferred not to put more pressure on health services and police in the circumstances. It therefore agreed not to restart the season and "accept the current league table as final".
 
Sammex

Sammex

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Oct 25, 2017
4,720
Podge293 said:
The most compelling reason is that players contracts end July 1.

Some teams, not all mind you, could lose key players. That'd be unfair
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It's the least unfair way.

Void the season and you have all the potential issues with qualification/promotion/relegation etc like WBA no longer having parachute payments next season. Another year for United not in the CL and therefore the consequences with Adidas and their shirt sponsorship. Norwich who are certain to get relegated getting another £100million in tv rights money that they dont deserve. I could go on.

Complete the season when you can - you have some players contracts that run down and they are no longer available. This would cause the least disruption to the fewest teams. How many players are running down their contracts that are not being allowed to by their club? (as in players that a club would like to keep but they wont sign a new deal, as opposed to say Adam Lallana at LFC where they don't care if he leaves in the summer)

It's a small number.
 
Podge293

Podge293

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Oct 25, 2017
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You're just thinking Premier League.

there's clubs in league 1 and league 2 that their entire squad's contract ends June 1. Is it fair on them because waiting forever to finish the league is fairer on the top clubs?

so it's not really a small number no.
 
Sammex

Sammex

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Oct 25, 2017
4,720
Podge293 said:
You're just thinking Premier League.

there's clubs in league 1 and league 2 that their entire squad's contract ends June 1. Is it fair on them because waiting forever to finish the league is fairer on the top clubs?

so it's not really a small number no.
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I'm not. I even named a Championship team first up.

Name these clubs that lose their entire squads on June 1st because that's just ridiculous. If you void the season it doesn't automatically renew all these contracts anyway.

Let's take my nearest side - Plymouth Argyle. They're in League 2 with a really good shot at going back up to League 1. If you force them to replay another season in League 2 they'll miss out on a huge increase in money from getting into League 1. That money they could have used to pay their players more and stop them being poached by other clubs. Void the season and they remain in League 2 but unable to offer the money to hold onto their players and next year they don't get promoted.

I know you want us to not win the league mate but it would cause the least harm to the entire football pyramid to complete the season if it's possible to do that in the future.
 
Podge293

Podge293

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Oct 25, 2017
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Sammex said:
I'm not. I even named a Championship team first up.

Name these clubs that lose their entire squads on June 1st because that's just ridiculous. If you void the season it doesn't automatically renew all these contracts anyway.

Let's take my nearest side - Plymouth Argyle. They're in League 2 with a really good shot at going back up to League 1. If you force them to replay another season in League 2 they'll miss out on a huge increase in money from getting into League 1. That money they could have used to pay their players more and stop them being poached by other clubs. Void the season and they remain in League 2 but unable to offer the money to hold onto their players and next year they don't get promoted.

I know you want us to not win the league mate but it would cause the least harm to the entire football pyramid to complete the season if it's possible to do that in the future.
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Stelling did an interview the other day and said Hartlepool, the club he's president of, would lose alot of their players. I doubt they're the only club in that position.

I couldn't give a shit about Liverpool winning the league. United lose out more by the league being cancelled than Liverpool do.

There's an easy solution to worries about the potential money lost. The Premier league could divert some of the prize pool down the leagues

The latest figures are that clubs in league 2, using your example, get 450k for playing in the league and 650k for playing in league 1.

That'd mean each premium league team would need to give up just 240k of the minimum 35 million pound they get.

Last year Huddersfield got 96m and they came dead last.
 
Simon21

Simon21

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Apr 25, 2018
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Even have a transfer window if you're that worried about player contracts. Teams were able to complete transfers all the way up to March until as recently as 2002. Clubs will also find it much easier to make money from season tickets if they can actually guarantee that next season will also finish in some form, rather than create a precedent that allows for a real possibility of next season being voided too. Not to mention the PL would be a lot more able to pass money down the leagues if they could guatantee their own TV income.

The greatest fallacy behind the voiding idea is that it operates under the assumption that next season would definitely run as normal.
 
poklane

poklane

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the Netherlands
In a letter by the UEFA and ECA they urged leagues to not yet end their leagues, and also implied that leagues which are ended prematurely might see their teams excluded from the EL and CL as placements are determined by the standings at the end of a full season https://apnews.com/b9021e2a93599423bd60d43b56f6a798
Since participation in UEFA club competitions is determined by the sporting result achieved at the end of a full domestic competition, a premature termination would cast doubts about the fulfillment of such condition,
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RocknRola

RocknRola

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Oct 25, 2017
12,367
Portugal
I'm curious as to how the various Leagues will deal with this.

Initially I was under the impression the date, August 3rd was a deadline. Then it seemed like it wasn't... however, today it's been reported very much as a deadline on the news in Portugal. As in, if the League isn't finished by that point in time (presuming it can be done at all) then the teams risk their CL/EL places, for example.

I dunno, I feel like UEFA took the cowards way out. They left the various FA's and Leagues under pressure of having to come up with a solution on the spot without knowing exactly when they can even start implementing them.... it could be May, could be June, could be July or could be not at all even.
 
Jodez99

Jodez99

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Jan 1, 2018
3,692
Very much doubt Uefa are going to deny teams places in the champions league or Europa. What if Spain or Italy doesn't finish up in time, you think they're gonna tell Barcelona or Juventus that they can't come back next season? That's how a superleague starts
 
RocknRola

RocknRola

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Oct 25, 2017
12,367
Portugal
Jodez99 said:
Very much doubt Uefa are going to deny teams places in the champions league or Europa. What if Spain or Italy doesn't finish up in time, you think they're gonna tell Barcelona or Juventus that they can't come back next season? That's how a superleague starts
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I dunno man, I'm just venting what I've heard through the day (including some actual FPF staff) in the news.

I'm not sure why UEFA would even try to give a date, even if just a goal, when no one knows when sports (in general) can be resumed. Seems like such a BS move on their part.
 
Sammex

Sammex

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Oct 25, 2017
4,720
Podge293 said:
Stelling did an interview the other day and said Hartlepool, the club he's president of, would lose alot of their players. I doubt they're the only club in that position.

I couldn't give a shit about Liverpool winning the league. United lose out more by the league being cancelled than Liverpool do.

There's an easy solution to worries about the potential money lost. The Premier league could divert some of the prize pool down the leagues

The latest figures are that clubs in league 2, using your example, get 450k for playing in the league and 650k for playing in league 1.

That'd mean each premium league team would need to give up just 240k of the minimum 35 million pound they get.

Last year Huddersfield got 96m and they came dead last.
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But they would take a massive hit, almost £800m in tv money just for the PL, if the current season doesn't finish. How many of the PL clubs make a profit? Cos if they don't make a profit why are they going to potentially endanger their own club in order to save lower league ones? I'm not saying it's right but I guarantee they will look after themselves before others.

Also that 450k/650k is just prize money - what about all the gate receipts? What about season tickets that would have to be reimbursed? What about sponsors claiming their money back cos their logo wasn't displayed on a shirt for 38 games+ etc.

It's a massively complicated way of dealing with the situation and we're not at the point where it's needed yet.


Also come on mate, United losing some cash from not being in Europe is not comparible to Liverpool being denied their first league win in 30 years and probably one of the most dominant league performances in the history of the sport.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

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Nov 14, 2019
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Season cancelled

Gbr3deT.gif
 
Joni

Joni

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Oct 27, 2017
19,508
poklane said:
In a letter by the UEFA and ECA they urged leagues to not yet end their leagues, and also implied that leagues which are ended prematurely might see their teams excluded from the EL and CL as placements are determined by the standings at the end of a full season https://apnews.com/b9021e2a93599423bd60d43b56f6a798
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It is going to age very badly if one of the affected countries ever hits back and sues UEFA for the damage caused by the Atalante - Valencia match.
Or even worse, if there is a renewed outbreak because of this irresponsible behavior.
 

Deleted member 1478

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Just watching Liverpool v Newcastle (1996) on Sky Sports at the moment. If I remember right I was camping in a friend's back garden when this first aired and I was trying to watch it on my GameGear TV.
 
Timmm

Timmm

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Oct 28, 2017
2,923
Manchester, UK
Simon21 said:
Even have a transfer window if you're that worried about player contracts. Teams were able to complete transfers all the way up to March until as recently as 2002. Clubs will also find it much easier to make money from season tickets if they can actually guarantee that next season will also finish in some form, rather than create a precedent that allows for a real possibility of next season being voided too. Not to mention the PL would be a lot more able to pass money down the leagues if they could guatantee their own TV income.

The greatest fallacy behind the voiding idea is that it operates under the assumption that next season would definitely run as normal.
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Yeah - the most flexible thing are the dates with which a competition can begin and start

The solution with the least disruption to football seems to me to be the one where all the fixtures are still played with a delay, than one where we cancel/finish competitions early and then try to cater for it by things like temporarily expanding the league size, or projecting league placements based on PPG or something like that.

And player contracts/transfers are a big issue but not one that is insurmountable. One off transfer windows can be arranged to replace out of contract players, or FIFA could also disallow registering new players to play in this season to discourage clubs from picking up these players on free transfers (these two are just off the top of my head, sure there are others too)
 
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

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Jul 25, 2018
28,193
All of the top players should be taking pay cuts now, not just in soccer. They are over-paid already imo, but especially when they aren't even playing or training. Liverpool has a dozen players on at least £100,000 weekly salary, and if they all took just a 20% cut, and the manager and club execs too, I bet that would be plenty to ensure all the regular folks don't need to lose their jobs.

Is there much progress wrt player salary cuts? I saw that Bayern, Dortmund and other German clubs have agreed to 20% cuts. I saw an interview recently with an NBA player who is doing similar and pushing colleagues to do it.
 
Podge293

Podge293

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,760
Teddy said:
I think it is the reality of the situation, we don't how long this is going to go on for so Liverpool are preparing for the worst. The Guardian reports we are stilling paying the remaining 20% of staffs wages so no one is worse off by this.
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They declared a 42m profit before tax 5 weeks ago.... And had record revenue.

There's no justification for this.

I can kinda understand Norwich doing it.

Any of the "big" 6 teams need to be called out for the shit
 
Herey

Herey

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Jan 10, 2019
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pbsapeer said:


So disappointed in Liverpool. Surely they could afford to pay the full 100% themselves?
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Awful behaviour. On the upside I haven't seen this much criticism from the fanbase for a long time, at least as far back as the protests against rising ticket prices. Hopefully they do what they did then and reverse the decision.
 
Jam

Jam

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Oct 25, 2017
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Audioboxer said:
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I refuse to believe Rooney hasn't got a ghostwriter for the bang on stuff he's been putting out recently.

Unless a few months in Derbyshire has truly enlightened him and awakened an inner person.

Players are seemingly more than happy to contribute; but want assurances from owners that it'll be handled properly and not in their pockets.
 
Dwebble

Dwebble

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Oct 25, 2017
9,683
The Athletic's reporting that FIFA are going to extend the 2019-20 season indefinitely, allowing each FA to determine when the campaigns finish, as well as altering the transfer window dates and allowing extensions for deals running out after June 30th.
 
SMD

SMD

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Oct 28, 2017
6,341
Dwebble said:
The Athletic's reporting that FIFA are going to extend the 2019-20 season indefinitely, allowing each FA to determine when the campaigns finish, as well as altering the transfer window dates and allowing extensions for deals running out after June 30th.
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The obvious route, they'll cancel all European and international matches and let the seasons play out so now the focus can be on getting the clubs through this period. Hopefully FIFA will provide a support fund out of the billions they have lying around.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

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Nov 14, 2019
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Simon21 said:
Not everything is about the top end of the PL.
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It's a joke, but yeah, we were all trying to come together from all clubs to decide what to do on this Liverpool title. Some clubs let us know they'd go bankrupt to prevent a Liverpool title. I've got an Uncle who works at Nintendo who knows this.

Jokes aside, it's actually in Man Utds best interests to see the season complete. 3 years without CL tanks sponsorship money.
 
Podge293

Podge293

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,760
Allowing extensions doesn't help with the fact that
  1. Clubs might not be able to keep rolling contracts indefinitely with no gate receipts/income
  2. Players won't necessarily sign said extensions
  3. Is it any different to the current world? Players can sign extensions at any point ha
A firm date needs to be set. This will allow less off clubs better plan and try set a goal of surviving.

What if this goes on for 6 months? A year?

Do fifa just expect clubs to survive on fresh air?
 
Simon21

Simon21

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Apr 25, 2018
1,134
Audioboxer said:
It's a joke, but yeah, we were all trying to come together from all clubs to decide what to do on this Liverpool title. Some clubs let us know they'd go bankrupt to prevent a Liverpool title. I've got an Uncle who works at Nintendo who knows this.

Jokes aside, it's actually in Man Utds best interests to see the season complete. 3 years without CL tanks sponsorship money.
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Absolutely, hence the club hierarchy want the season to finish. It's really just a few fans who want to see Liverpool miss out for "the bantz".

Anyway, my uncle works above your uncle and he's told me the season's finishing and Leeds are going up as fucking champions.
 
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