First marker for mysterious vaping illness identified

JediTimeBoy · Sep 8, 2019

Bubble Metropolis said:
It's right here, in this very thread. This is what these poorly framed articles of an illness which has been linked to a particular chemical in a particular strain of products (i.e., not inherently related to vaping nor caused by prolonged use of vape products) is causing people to think. This is people going back to cigarettes because of bullshit boogieman headlines, and the people with vaping prejudices because 'it looks dumb' are applauding them.

I said I'm tempted, and I can understand why people go back to cigarettes. There is still so much unknown about the longterm side effects.

I don't know why it's annoying if I'm not convinced that vaping is 100% safe, or even 75% safe. Yes, right now cigarettes are demonstrably worse, that doesn't mean that ecigs won't be worse than currently believed. Note, I didn't say worse than smoking.

What's the argument going to be if there's a link between VG and lipoid pneumonia after all?

Hypemaster · Sep 8, 2019

Bubble Metropolis said:
Vaping has been around for over a decade with little to no adverse side effects being reported or found in thousands of scientific studies, but a handful of young people in one particular area who are vaping one particular product comedown with a sudden onset illness (i.e., not brought upon by prolonged exposure to vaping) and Era wants people to go back to cigarettes, which is verifiably the cause of 500,000 deaths a year. I thought y'all were supposed to be smart, but I guess that all goes out the window when you consider the horror of "That guy at work smells like blueberries all the time!" and "Yeah, he might feel a million times better than when he was smoking cigarettes, but he looks like a fucking dork lol."

Unreal.

needs more "OnLy tHiNg ThAt shoUld be GoInG IN your LUngs iS AiR"

Bubble Metropolis · Sep 8, 2019

Ideally, when we talk about people quitting vaping, we're just talking about them quitting vaping which is no big deal, but realistically when discussing quitting vaping you are intrinsically talking about people going back to cigarettes. Whether you explicitly acknowledge that in your comments or not.

bye · Sep 8, 2019

Bubble Metropolis said:
Vaping has been around for over a decade with little to no adverse side effects being reported or found in thousands of scientific studies, but a handful of young people in one particular area who are vaping one particular product comedown with a sudden onset illness (i.e., not brought upon by prolonged exposure to vaping) and Era wants people to go back to cigarettes, which is verifiably the cause of 500,000 deaths a year. I thought y'all were supposed to be smart, but I guess that all goes out the window when you consider the horror of "That guy at work smells like blueberries all the time!" and "Yeah, he might feel a million times better than when he was smoking cigarettes, but he looks like a fucking dork lol."

Unreal.

It's almost like sometimes adverse symptoms take time - like a decade or more - to develop!

I've never seen anyone say "go back to cigarettes" either.

Convasse · Sep 8, 2019

Hypemaster said:
needs more "OnLy tHiNg ThAt shoUld be GoInG IN your LUngs iS AiR"

I mean ... our lungs evolved for optimal performance with oxygen inhalation. Everything else will either immediately or eventually cause issues.

Frankfurter · Sep 8, 2019

Ricky Ricardo said:
I mean ... our lungs evolved for optimal performance with oxygen inhalation. Everything else will either immediately or eventually cause issues.

I hope you know that the air around you doesn't consist of 100% oxygen.

Hypemaster · Sep 8, 2019

Ricky Ricardo said:
I mean ... our lungs evolved for optimal performance with oxygen inhalation. Everything else will either immediately or eventually cause issues.

That's fine but it rubs me the wrong way how quick people are to berate others that may have an actual nicotine addiction and were told vaping was a safer alternative at the time/stepping stone to eventually quitting. I quit vaping for my own reasons and was never a long term smoker for any addiction to take over, but it doesn't sit right with me seeing how after a few recent serious cases are breaking out vapers are being portrayed as foolish like we had access to this knowledge beforehand.

Do yall check everyone that drinks alcohol/soda on whether or not water should be the only liquid going in their body too?

breakdancing duck · Sep 8, 2019

Bubble Metropolis said:
Ideally, when we talk about people quitting vaping, we're just talking about them quitting vaping which is no big deal, but realistically when discussing quitting vaping you are intrinsically talking about people going back to cigarettes. Whether you explicitly acknowledge that in your comments or not.

There's a lot more teenagers vaping than there were teenagers smoking cigarettes a few years ago.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-even.../teens-using-vaping-devices-in-record-numbers

JediTimeBoy · Sep 8, 2019

I don't know... I mean it's not like nicotine is some sappy artificial sweetener in the first place. Either way, I'm fucking consuming poison, and it's hard as fuck to get off.

Haven't touched my ecig in 6 hours, and itching for a cig. This is what nicotine addiction does. I know it's irrational and illogical, but in my mind, I'm now so fucking weary of vaping, that it's like my body wants a cig. Fucking hard to explain....

skeezx · Sep 8, 2019

Reinhard said:
Then people use WAY too high levels of nicotine with it, dangerously high levels, especially teens and college age kids.

really doubt that's true. most major brands never go over 6mg now. to put things into perspective back in the early 2010s vaping boom it went to 24mg and sometimes higher. somebody told me it's to accomodate the high wattage mods even at 150+ watts i never get crazy buzzes like i did back then

JediTimeBoy · Sep 8, 2019

skeezx said:
really doubt that's true. most major brands never go over 6mg now. to put things into perspective back in the early 2010s vaping boom it went to 24mg and sometimes higher. somebody told me it's to accomodate the high wattage mods even at 150+ watts i never get crazy buzzes like i did back then

Nicotine salts 18mg/ml. Yeah, you can't toke it as long all day, but still.

Vapelord · Sep 8, 2019

The PG is antifreeze is a pretty hot take. Its the equivalent of saying shit like "There is a common food additive used to as a deicer - that is, it eats through ice and snow, generating large amounts of heat as it does so. In fact, it's mined and processed like an industrial chemical, before it's thrown into our food. Ick!" That of course, is salt.

Convasse · Sep 8, 2019

Frankfurter said:
I hope you know that the air around you doesn't consist of 100% oxygen.

Why yes, I am quite aware that the air around me isn't 100% oxygen. I'm saying that purposefully inhaling non-oxygen substances will have, more or less, negative consequences over time. That's all.

Hypemaster said:
That's fine but it rubs me the wrong way how quick people are to berate others that may have an actual nicotine addiction and were told vaping was a safer alternative at the time/stepping stone to eventually quitting. I quit vaping for my own reasons and was never a long term smoker for any addiction to take over, but it doesn't sit right with me seeing how after a few recent serious cases are breaking out vapers are being portrayed as foolish like we had access to this knowledge beforehand.

Do yall check everyone that drinks alcohol/soda on whether or not water should be the only liquid going in their body too?

Water is about the only thing I drink because I see alcohol as a poison and most soda is not far off from poison. So yeah, I do view life through that lens. Not everyone does though and I respect that, but it doesn't change how our bodies perform under optimal conditions based on optimal inputs.

Addictions are a whole other subject though, far be it from me to decry anyone dealing with nicotine addiction.

Nude_Tayne · Sep 8, 2019

Vapelord said:
"There is a common food additive used to as a deicer - that is, it eats through ice and snow, generating large amounts of heat as it does so. In fact, it's mined and processed like an industrial chemical, before it's thrown into our food. Ick!" That of course, is salt.

HOLY SHIT

Reinhard · Sep 8, 2019

skeezx said:
really doubt that's true. most major brands never go over 6mg now. to put things into perspective back in the early 2010s vaping boom it went to 24mg and sometimes higher. somebody told me it's to accomodate the high wattage mods even at 150+ watts i never get crazy buzzes like i did back then

Well it is good to hear that juices aren't above 6 mg anymore, but the nicotine salt devices are still out there that have 40+ mg of nicotine. And Jule with nicotine salt are specifically being advertised towards teens and there has been a huge growth in that market...

Frankfurter · Sep 8, 2019

Ricky Ricardo said:
Why yes, I am quite aware that the air around me isn't 100% oxygen. I'm saying that purposefully inhaling non-oxygen substances will have, more or less, negative consequences over time. That's all.

So going by that logic inhaling nitrogen - which we all do all the time - should have negative consequences, right?

TarpitCarnivore · Sep 8, 2019

On NPR they were saying that the NY health commission looking into this found one commonality having to do with vitamin e as it relates to cannabis based ones

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...lung-problems-among-people-who-vaped-cannabis

Zaeia · Sep 8, 2019

Perhaps I'm too late, but for those wondering this article clarifies the language about lipids:Macrophage activity.

JediTimeBoy · Sep 8, 2019

Well either way, tobacco companies must feel like xmas has come early. They must really be loving this.

OT, but that's the other thing I don't get: the American state that's banned the sale of eliquids, have they banned the selling of cigarettes too? If not, what's their justification?

skeezx · Sep 8, 2019

Reinhard said:
Well it is good to hear that juices aren't above 6 mg anymore, but the nicotine salt devices are still out there that have 40+ mg of nicotine. And Jule with nicotine salt are specifically being advertised towards teens and there has been a huge growth in that market...

hm yeah not familiar with those pod type devices. i thought they were just fancy versions of those crappy "starter" vape pens from back in the day but noticed regular vape stores are stocking up on them (used to just see them at walgreens or something)

Juturna · Sep 8, 2019

Off brand black market nicotine and marijuana carts cut with vitamin e, that's one of the main problems

Wishbone Ash · Sep 8, 2019

Interesting takes going on in here. It's all or nothing for some of you.

julian · Sep 8, 2019

I really hate this general term of vaping getting thrown around. There are so many different types of devices and products to vape so I have no idea what they're actually saying to avoid.

KHarvey16 · Sep 8, 2019

julian said:
I really hate this general term of vaping getting thrown around. There are so many different types of devices and products to vape so I have no idea what they're actually saying to avoid.

The CDC is saying to avoid all of them for the time being.

N.Domixis · Sep 8, 2019

If people want to damage their lungs vaping/smoking, go for it. I'll be over here watching this develop.
This is why no matter how much peer pressure and starnge looks I get I WILL never try any form of vaping, smoking and or drinking. If I don't know what they taste/ make you feel like I'll never get addicted.

Arebours · Sep 8, 2019

Read something from an insider the other day about dirty cutting agents for cannabis processing. Apparently these materials are quite expensive due to high demand and so more people are rolling their own.
Overall this outbreak is very clustered in time and location, dirty products fit that pattern better than some potential undiscovered issue inherent to vaping.

julian · Sep 8, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
The CDC is saying to avoid all of them for the time being.

No. They said to avoid all e-cigs. There are more ways to vape than by using a pen. Which is exactly my point.

KHarvey16 · Sep 8, 2019

julian said:
No. They said to avoid all e-cigs. There are more ways to vape than by using a pen. Which is exactly my point.

They say:

...associated with the use of electronic cigarette (e-cigarette) products (e.g., devices, liquids, refill pods, and cartridges) had been reported to CDC by 25 state health departments. E-cigarettes are devices that produce an aerosol by heating a liquid containing various chemicals, including nicotine, flavorings, and other additives (e.g., propellants, solvents, and oils).

and

Using an electronic device (e.g., electronic nicotine delivery system (ENDS), electronic cigarette (e-cigarette), vaporizer, vape(s), vape pen, dab pen, or other device) or dabbing to inhale substances (e.g., nicotine, marijuana, tetrahydrocannabinol, tetrahydrocannabinol concentrates, cannabinoids, synthetic cannabinoids, flavorings, or other substances).

Sho_Nuff82 · Sep 8, 2019

This thread posted without the context of the previous CDC remarks on Vitamin E oil probably wasn't a good idea.

TheGhost · Sep 8, 2019

N.Domixis said:
If people want to damage their lungs vaping/smoking, go for it. I'll be over here watching this develop.
This is why no matter how much peer pressure and starnge looks I get I WILL never try any form of vaping, smoking and or drinking. If I don't know what they taste/ make you feel like I'll never get addicted.

Who is peer pressuring people to smoke now adays? Shit is like $15 a pack it's not even worth to get into. But if they take this shitty black market crap as a reason to shut down vaping altogether. Then what? Big tobacco wins? Yay? Do I start buying CBD flower and smoking that instead?

I've been on the "fuck combustion" train way before e cigarettes because a thing.

Lashes.541 · Sep 8, 2019

Pwnz said:
Ah cool, hopefully they change the tech and solve it. Once weed is legalized vaping is my preferred method by far. You can gauge your highness and adjust easily, no surprises with edibles. No cleanup, lots of hits per cartridge.

Then get a dry flower vaporizer. It's the oil cartridges that are the issue right now.

The Vathlonian · Sep 8, 2019

N.Domixis said:
If people want to damage their lungs vaping/smoking, go for it. I'll be over here watching this develop.
This is why no matter how much peer pressure and starnge looks I get I WILL never try any form of vaping, smoking and or drinking. If I don't know what they taste/ make you feel like I'll never get addicted.

Are you the only man alive without vices? if not you should probably get off your high horse.

Lashes.541 · Sep 8, 2019

skeezx said:
really doubt that's true. most major brands never go over 6mg now. to put things into perspective back in the early 2010s vaping boom it went to 24mg and sometimes higher. somebody told me it's to accomodate the high wattage mods even at 150+ watts i never get crazy buzzes like i did back then

Most major brands are making salts now, the lowest salts I have ever seen are 18, plus I know the owner of a vape shop. Pod systems and salts are about 70% of all sales. The super low nic level and super high wattage cloud chasing days were just a fad. I wish salts were not the popular thing but I ended up switching to a salt based pod system because the big mods were to hard to take places and were always leaking, plus they were drinking juice like crazy. So it looks like salt based is the new thing and thus nic levels will continue to get super high.

Deleted member 31817 · Sep 8, 2019

Legalize actual marijuana so people have easier access to regulated carts.

thesoapster · Sep 8, 2019

Akira86 said:
anyone who's ever touched vegetable glycerin, you can't tell me that lumpy gooey oily substance doesn't seem fatty to you.
and propylene glycol? oh cool, we vaping antifreeze now?

Yeah, it's never seemed like all that great of an idea to me...lol. That said regular antifreeze is ethylene glycol. Propylene glycol is much safer (and that's one selling point - if your pets drank it, it's not likely to kill them). I still don't think inhaling it is the best choice...

BlackSalad · Sep 8, 2019

Glycerol and propylene glycol are not lipids, they are water soluble polyols.

Signed,
a lipid chemist

SinkFla · Sep 8, 2019

Dennis8K said:
Fat macrophage shaming.

Lmffao

laughing my fat fucking ass off

julian · Sep 8, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
They say:

and

All those examples are of oils. There are more ways to vape than with oils.

Timeaisis · Sep 8, 2019

Oh my god vamping is bad for you who'd have thought.

KHarvey16 · Sep 8, 2019

julian said:
All those examples are of oils. There are more ways to vape than with oils.

No they aren't.

...devices that produce an aerosol by heating a liquid containing various chemicals, including nicotine, flavorings, and other additives (e.g., propellants, solvents, and oils)

julian · Sep 8, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
No they aren't.

It literally says heating a liquid in that quote.

KHarvey16 · Sep 8, 2019

julian said:
It literally says heating a liquid in that quote.

That quote mentions oils with other things, making a distinction. They very obviously do not mean only products containing oils.

julian · Sep 8, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
That quote mentions oils with other things, making a distinction. They very obviously do not mean only products containing oils.

They very clearly are only talking about liquids, when you can vape dry herbs. My whole point is there are other ways to "vape", you haven't disproved that. In fact, I checked the other thread and see you making this same mistake there.

KHarvey16 · Sep 8, 2019

julian said:
They very clearly are only talking about liquids, when you can vape dry herbs. My whole point is there are other ways to "vape", you haven't disproved that. In fact, I checked the other thread and see you making this same mistake there.

You just have to actually read it.

Using an electronic device (e.g., electronic nicotine delivery system (ENDS), electronic cigarette (e-cigarette), vaporizer, vape(s), vape pen, dab pen, or other device) or dabbing to inhale substances (e.g., nicotine, marijuana, tetrahydrocannabinol, tetrahydrocannabinol concentrates, cannabinoids, synthetic cannabinoids, flavorings, or other substances).

MrNelson · Sep 8, 2019

JediTimeBoy said:
OT, but that's the other thing I don't get: the American state that's banned the sale of eliquids, have they banned the selling of cigarettes too? If not, what's their justification?

They banned flavored liquids, not all liquids.

BLEEN · Sep 8, 2019

skeezx said:
hm yeah not familiar with those pod type devices. i thought they were just fancy versions of those crappy "starter" vape pens from back in the day but noticed regular vape stores are stocking up on them (used to just see them at walgreens or something)

The pod styles use nic salts. They deceptively call them 5% and 3% nicotine. They are actually closer to 59mg or 35mg/mL. They are straight up insanely packing a punch of nicotine. People are extremely addicted to those things.

I still recommend people just use regular 3 or 6% nic juice on a boxmod or small swappable atomizer device. Highest maybe 12 if you're coming off cigs. The nic salts/pod systems will just make you addicted to those and there is no easy way to step down without refilling the pods yourself. Nic salts = smoother vape hit so you don't even notice you're intaking that much nicotine. If you were to go that high on regular ejuice, it'd be a cough fest and harsh as all hell.

Greecian · Sep 8, 2019

Timeaisis said:
Oh my god vamping is bad for you who'd have thought.

Do u have something against vampires

BLEEN · Sep 8, 2019

Timeaisis said:
Oh my god vamping is bad for you who'd have thought.

#vamplife

Timeaisis · Sep 8, 2019

lol whoops

Akira86 · Sep 8, 2019

Juturna said:
Off brand black market nicotine and marijuana carts cut with vitamin e, that's one of the main problems

maybe not even offbrand. it looks like there was a small industry market selling "thickeners"

The popular illicit market diluent thickener Honey Cut, based out of Los Angeles, may contain vitamin E oil, according to independent tests by the Portland, Oregon, terpene maker True Terpenes. Leafly previously chronicled Honey Cut's introduction in Los Angeles in late 2018 and its subsequent dominance of the market for vape cart cutting agents.

First marker for mysterious vaping illness identified

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

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