Luckily a lot of kids are progressive and I doubt the Trumper kids will bother to turn out, though can't say Biden is exciting the young voters much
Fired-up Biden shows gloves are off in January 6 anniversary speech
- Thread starter ThisThingIsUseful
- Start date
You think individuals are shaming people? Cause that isn't what I'm seeing at all.
Fundamentally, I agree with you, it is just a horrible situation to be stuck in. We should have better choices, we shouldn't be in the position of having to sacrifice our morals to stop something worse. I don't think ERA posters are shaming each other though.
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The phrase 'shame on you' in response to the notion of not voting for Biden has literally been used in this thread.
Yeah we probably define it differently. There is a lot of outrage and anger at people here uncomfortable with voting for Biden and I think the anger should be directed at Democrats to try to get them to do better in time for the election.
I hope all those posters vote for Biden on election day because I've never wanted to avoid something more than another Trump victory, but if Biden loses because people didn't approve of the genocide and sat out it's 100% on him. The idea of him potentially handing the Presidency to Trump because he went out of his way to help Israel level Palestine makes me furious.
By one single poster in 655 posts, that one person was moderated...It would be nice if we argued in good faith. ERA members as a whole, are not shaming people over this. The vast majority of posts in here regarding the complete shift in thread topic are saying: Biden is flawed, Biden is wrong on this issue; with that being said, I will still pull the handle for him because Trump is worse.
Yep, on the same page.
If Biden loses, it is on him, he is the candidate.
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User warned: thread derail
I am arguing in good faith. There are many more examples - I went through the thread and checked, to make sure I hadn't been imagining it, and I could find far more if I broadened my search to other threads - but I'm not going to quote a bunch of people and start a pointless fight.
Vote-shaming is common rhetoric on Era. I'm sure many here would argue that it's justified.
Not going to drag this further off-topic, if you feel people are arguing in bad faith and vote shaming against the staff post I would encourage you to report it.
Many of my friends have chronic health problems. I was so afraid for them when the vote to repeal the ACA came up in 2017. I don't think they would survive another Trump term either.
Is it also not the fault of people who voted for Trump? Is this true for every losing candidate ever, that if they lose it's their fault? Under this line of reasoning when do eligible voters have any agency?
I feel that if Biden loses, it's absolutely on him and the democratic party. Just like it was on them in 2016.
That said, it won't be Biden who suffers as a result of that loss.
That said, it won't be Biden who suffers as a result of that loss.
Because by any and all metrics, this shouldn't be a race at all. Trump isn't a rising star, he's a known quantity. And yet it's Biden's own stance that is hemorrhaging his support from Muslim/Arab voters, as well as connected youth voters who are more vocal than ever about how fucked this is. It took 3 fucking days of recounts and obstructive bullshit before it was clear Biden was the winner in 2020. That's a skin-of-your-teeth victory that shouldn't be taken lightly.
Why is he so willing to let his own base essentially fracture over this brazenly obvious standout issue?
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Of course he would. He's just a politician. They all are. They are protected by a system that supports them, that's it. That system falls? Becomes the tool of a fascist dictator hellbent on revenge?
Everyone would suffer. The world, all of it. No one escapes it.
There are two people who don't — really don't — get enough credit. The voters who saved our asses in 2020, and congressional security officer Eugene Goodman.
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Yeah, that's an aspect that I see rarely discussed here, because the issue really is an amalgamation of two things of which only the first is really mentioned here (outside your post):
- Underemphasising what the act of (not) voting will mean for society, i.e., what a Trump win might look like by focussing on an issue that can only be influenced by someone in power (meaning, the case for "Joe Biden is supporting a genocide" will always be stronger than for Trump, because only one of them can currently influence that)
- Overemphasising what the act of voting means for a single individual (i.e., exactly what you said there), as if it's a big show of support for eveything Joe Biden stands for and as if you're basically personally sigining your name under that. I mean, it's very obviously the opposite. Voting is anonymous, no one needs to know. No one will ever know, if you want that. You don't have to tell your Twitter circle who you've voted for. Just please prevent the USA from getting a dictator by this easy, anonymous act and forget about everything else, if that's what it takes.
Hey, as someone with kidney failure myself, I just want to let you know I hear you.
Hard to cheer up for Biden given the whole Israel situation, but it's also true that that and everything else would be much worse under republicans, who already have lots of political power despite the previous election results. If this is what it takes to convince the undecided then kudos to him. Personally i hope abortion carries the election again, and that Democrats get a strong enough mandate to prove once and for all if they can be more than the lesser evil. These relatively close elections are getting nowhere.
Shouldn't 2020 not have been a race at all too? Trump was a known quantity in 2020. If you consider the 2020 victory merely skin-of-your-teeth, whose fault was it that it was close?
I just don't understand this rhetorical strategy that assigns zero responsibility to voters in a democracy and just shuts down debate. Biden and Trump are responsible for their policy positions and actions in office. Criticizing them for that is part of democracy. However voters are responsible for evaluating those factors and understanding the consequences of voting. It makes no sense to say the act of withholding one's vote is the voter's source of power, then to take no responsibility for the outcome of an election. You can't have it both ways.
Late reply, but since I'm one of the people who argued along those lines (although not in such a reductive way), I do want to expand.
Personally, I would argue that I am employing empathy. I have tremendous empathy for everything that Palestine is going through, has gone through, and (unfortunately) will likely go through in the future. But the thing is, I also have a tremendous amount of empathy not just for Palestine but the entire world, because Biden, for better or worse, is the only thing stopping someone who is infinitely worse for not just Palestine but LGBT/PoC/disabled/most other countries in the world but especially Ukraine, Taiwan, and South Korea and I'm pretty staunchly anti-nationalist and more about "humanity is my people".
To be clear, if someone is directly affected by what is happening in Palestine and refuses to not vote for Biden over that, that's fine, I'm not a single-issue voter and think single-issue voting is short sighted but it's their choice to make with their right to vote. Largely I'm more pleading to the people who maybe aren't directly affected by what's going on Palestine to think about more than just Palestine but their fellow man as a whole. Especially when Trump would objectively be worse for Palestine in the first place.
I'm voting for Biden not because I support his Israel & Palestine positions, but because I want what is best for LGBT/PoC as a whole/disabled folks/kidney folks/Ukraine/Taiwan/South Korea/a myriad of other countries. It's personally hard for me to ignore the billions of other people that would be affected by an unhinged Trump. I vote for Biden to be against Trump who is against all those people.
How I wish it was an even easier choice though, where Biden's position on Palestine wasn't monstrous. How I wish people didn't have to maybe vote for someone that they personally can't stand. How I wish every election in America didn't feel like it was stopping the country from teetering off the brink.
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I wish I could read any of that without feeling jaded and a bit hopeless.
I wish we had better. I'm fucking terrified of another trump presidency and how much he's going to destroy, and the only meaningful option against him is Biden, who's supporting and funding the Palestinian genocide, and has already reached across the aisle with conservatives when it comes to trans rights. It's difficult to feel hopeful from such a speech when minorities and the marginalized are the ones at stake from a political feud that hasn't seemed to care about the people needing protection the most.
I wish we had better. I'm fucking terrified of another trump presidency and how much he's going to destroy, and the only meaningful option against him is Biden, who's supporting and funding the Palestinian genocide, and has already reached across the aisle with conservatives when it comes to trans rights. It's difficult to feel hopeful from such a speech when minorities and the marginalized are the ones at stake from a political feud that hasn't seemed to care about the people needing protection the most.
It is absolutely the fault of people who voted for Trump. I was treating that as a given and left it unsaid. It is still up to Biden to convince enough people to vote for him to defeat Trump and his voters. Any negative election consequences from Biden choosing to help out with genocide are on him. Him and his team should know, just like the rest of us, that we're heading towards a close election and he is risking the turnout of key demographics that usually vote reliably democratic. He has agency on deciding how to balance his desire to enable Israel's genocide and his desire to beat Trump.
I hear you but FWIW I feel the general public sentiment has shifted because of this latest conflict. Granted not a monumental shift but more people's eyes have been opened to the plight of the Palestinians. Someone from our generation on the left would very likely not be pro Israel at all. Too many dinosaurs in power unfortunately.
WTH are you talking about? Biden won by 7 million popular and nearly 80 electoral votes. That's not skin-of-your-teeth. That's about as landslide as it gets.
2-3 days of waiting for final counts and recounts is nothing new, and hardly surprising in the middle of a pandemic.
80 electoral votes which was down to:
9,000 votes in Arizona a difference of .30%
20,000 votes in Wisconsin a difference of .63%
12,000 votes in Georgia a difference of .23%
Those 3 states would have flipped the election to Trump, it was exceptionally close. -Edit- Technically this would have been a 269 tie, the point is this wasn't a landslide.
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This is why I continually point out to people why the Dems are not going to dump Biden when he's an incumbent. Trump should have won re-election but his response to COVID was that terrible that it destroyed that advantage.
Yeah not sure why people keep trying to pretend it was a blowout victory by just looking at the total vote difference. Especially considering how 2016 was. There are stadiums with more people in them then those 3 combined state differences.
Reminder that this is who we are dealing with if we lose:
View: https://x.com/mkraju/status/1744734195199721593?s=20
View: https://x.com/mkraju/status/1744734195199721593?s=20
It really wasn't that close. Winning one state by a low margin is close but winning every swing state essentially is a very comfortable victory. Was it too close because he's an absolute shit head and people should know better? Yes.
Trump won by 3 swing states with more votes in 2016, yet people here will say that was razor thin. I just absolutely can't agree with it being a comfortable victory when we waited nearly a week for Biden to eek out the win with the very last mailin's counted.
I wasn't overly concerned about the upcoming election before reading this thread. Anyone thinking that a different Democrat in the White House would be handling the Israeli/Palestinian crisis differently is delusional.
It usually takes several days for all the votes to be counted in many states. Not sure why this is being brought up like it doesn't happen every election.
Saying Trump barely won is also not reality unfortunately. Comfortable is relative to how much at risk anyone personally is for his shitty policies which I get but in terms of traditional election tracker Biden won decisively.
It's a secondary point, but it absolutely made those days very uncomfortable. It happens every election, but not when it comes to those very last votes being the difference in the election.
I assume the subtext here is that if Biden loses legitimately?
Because if he narrowly loses by thin margins in swing states, there's no reason to assume Republicans aren't on some bullshit until categorically proven otherwise. The GOP is not to be trusted.
I mean, personally, I think its ok to be upset with Biden over policy positions, but also ok to be a little mad at people who don't vote because they don't agree with some of Biden's positions on certain things- since that is a vote for Trump, and I think we mostly all agree how much of a disaster it would be if Trump won, because of poor turnout/apathy. We should all still remember the 2016 election, or at least remember the disaster that was our country from 2017 through 2020 and know that can't happen again.
I honestly wish there was just about anyone else on the Dem ticket. Biden is too old, first and glaringly foremost, and has some policy positions I don't jibe with, sometimes at all. But all that aside, the upcoming election is still like a choice between an average reasonable person (who yes, makes mistakes), or voting for Hitler/enabling Hitler. And sadly, I don't think that's an overblown, or unreasonable analogy at all. You don't allow Hitler to win. Trump literally just wants office because he doesn't want to go to jail. He wants to claim immunity as a sitting president, and then pardon himself. And then continue the literal fascism that he inflicts.
If we all show up to the ballot again, Trump won't win. He won't have more support from what he got in 2016/2020 after all he's done (insurrection, his actions killing Roe, all the crimes, trials, etc). But he will win if we don't show up. Everyone, IMO, needs to remember this, no matter what they feel about Biden.
I'm not going to individually flame anyone who disagrees here, but I fully feel everyone needs to see/read this kind of message no matter how many times it takes. We need to show up. We can't sit on our hands hoping the courts disqualify him or something. Trump doesn't need to win those cases, he only needs delay those proceedings from concluding before the election takes place, so even if a guilty verdict comes down, he can have it reversed. Only we are going to stop him. Again. Don't forget.
I honestly wish there was just about anyone else on the Dem ticket. Biden is too old, first and glaringly foremost, and has some policy positions I don't jibe with, sometimes at all. But all that aside, the upcoming election is still like a choice between an average reasonable person (who yes, makes mistakes), or voting for Hitler/enabling Hitler. And sadly, I don't think that's an overblown, or unreasonable analogy at all. You don't allow Hitler to win. Trump literally just wants office because he doesn't want to go to jail. He wants to claim immunity as a sitting president, and then pardon himself. And then continue the literal fascism that he inflicts.
If we all show up to the ballot again, Trump won't win. He won't have more support from what he got in 2016/2020 after all he's done (insurrection, his actions killing Roe, all the crimes, trials, etc). But he will win if we don't show up. Everyone, IMO, needs to remember this, no matter what they feel about Biden.
I'm not going to individually flame anyone who disagrees here, but I fully feel everyone needs to see/read this kind of message no matter how many times it takes. We need to show up. We can't sit on our hands hoping the courts disqualify him or something. Trump doesn't need to win those cases, he only needs delay those proceedings from concluding before the election takes place, so even if a guilty verdict comes down, he can have it reversed. Only we are going to stop him. Again. Don't forget.
So he just needs to cater to the racists 🤔
If Biden took Eras stance on politic, he would get blown away in the election. That's how the American populace (generally) is.
Or maybe he can cater to potential voters, or younger voters. Nobody is saying to cater to racists. He could even make big changes to turn nonvoters into people in his base. Even changing his stance on marijuana couldn't hurt at this point.
That's right, the only voters out there are center-left democrats and racists. No other potential further left stances to take or acknowledge. Just gotta go to the right.
I hope this is sarcasm, because you can't be serious.
If "poll watchers" (conservative domestic terrorists) start scaring people off from voting at locations?
If more poll locations are conveniently closed in Democratic-leaning, often minority communities?
If states continue with voter ID laws, or make existing ones more restrictive?
If GOP voters/supports commit voting fraud (again)?
If electors just straight up refuse to certify results?
This is all Biden's fault?
The broader and far more scary quote out of that entire piece is the following, paraphrased: Presidents of the United States are wholly and completely immune to criminal prosecution unless they have already been impeached and convicted. That is what he is arguing. Which lets just be clear, there is zero chance you are going to get 2/3 of the Senate to actually convict Donald Trump Jr. of anything, so, he is immune. He can be a dictator and do anything.
Yah, I don't think this guy should be POTUS.
Republicans believe that the executive branch when it is in their control means you have a God King who is above the state.
This was the entire point of the speech that Biden gave, THIS is the danger you are dealing with in the upcoming election. A man, who doesn't remotely believe in the rule of law.
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If the stance is being against supporting a genocide then it's the correct stance.
The American populace are wrong and it's fine to admit that, because never again means never again.
He only has cheap, empty words for younger voters. He caters to the rich and connected clearly.
Was he driving through a tunnel during this interview? Fucker can't give a straight answer OR keep a decent connection, makes me wanna tear my hair out
Student debt cancelation definitely helped him (although it was severely limited due to Scotus fucking him over) but his new payment plan that basically says unemployed people with no income don't need to pay off their loans has been excellent for me and has been giving me a much needed cushion. My loans were already low but I'm happy that there's still a grace period for people like me.
If he was catering to the rich and connected he wouldn't be supporting Unions. Some of you guys are ridiculous.
yeah he really came through during the railroad strike
edit: I am ashamed of my words and deeds
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