Fire Emblem Community | Anime Game Of Thrones
- Thread starter Shun
- Start date
It's a complete and utter mess in part because of MU's existence.
And not because the character is so bad by themself, but because their whole purpose of being in the game as a libido vessel causes the plot to bend and warp for their sake. Any writeup that went into the issues with this game without bringing up that detail is committing a severe oversight. Same thing with talking about FE16's story issues, although that's a lesser issue there than in 14.
I just started following this conversation, and while you got off to a terrible start by admitting your one of those fans that can't stand localized names (there's nothing wrong with Ced) or just abjectly refusing to refer to Robin or Corrin by name. But now you're just completely conflating Corrin as everything wrong with Fates even though that game's story was fundamentally flawed in its writing at all levels. It has nothing to do with Corrin being an Avatar. Byleth is an avatar unit, and Three Houses, while not perfect, is generally considered to have good if not excellent writing. As time has gone on, Fates was revealed to be a one-off anomaly, not a sign of doom.
Alright, I'll start using their official names in this thread. I'm not even that purist, but the new names just sounded awful and less unique to me.
I didn't conflate Corrin as everything wrong with Fates. I said it's a mess in part because of their presence in the game. A lot of its issues can be blamed in general on terrible writing and incompetence, but there's a lot of it that seemed intentionally bad, and not just for the reason of pushing customers to buy more of the same game. If I was more eloquent, I'd have a better argument here, but I'll hopefully figure something out later if I get a reply with more contextual evidence.
And I wouldn't really call Fates an anomaly when a lot of its problems can still be seen in the scripts of Echoes and Three Houses. 3H was just really lucky to have a bunch of the people they outsourced the game to happen to be big fans of both SNES-era FE and other similar stories.
Last edited:
Ok, just came back. Let's continue this conversation then.
Let's pretend Corrin doesn't exist. What happens now? No Mary sue, no someone the other characters are admiring and kissing their feet. Does that improve the plot? Hardly. Fates backstory is underdeveloped and overall, doesn't make sense. Characters lack motivation, the war itself isn't explained well. Why Nohr is such a horrible place while Hoshido is like paradise. Valla itself is the biggest offender. Remove Valla, the curse and Anankhos, and perhaps you can write something that doesn't make your head hurt if you think about it.
Another issue with Fates is how... sexist might be word? The game doesn't excel at all when it comes to characters, but it is amazing how only one female character plays a role in the plot. Corrin doesn't count since you can determine their gender. Only male characters get the legendary weapons, while the princesses are shafted. To make it worse, the four princes only get a male child, meaning no women inherit those weapons.
Corrin is bad, that can't be denied. They are an idiot and it is annoying the characters are always praising them and calling them some tactical genius despite their naivety and foolish decisions. Yes, we all know Corrin is loved by everyone because IS and Nintendo wanted a Lord self-insert. But Corrin isn't the main reason this game is bad when it comes to the story.
I'll let Linkark speak more for Fates as their reply echoed a lot of what I would have said.
Regarding Three Houses, it's evident that OK, you don't like Byleth, just like you apparently despise avatar units in general (I assume that your comment regarding New Mystery is specifically about Kris's existence). I personally found Byleth a very interesting character and a fascinating take on the (mostly) silent protagonist in terms of how they're characterized, even if it isn't the most successful part of he game's storytelling. But Three Houses is far more than just Byleth and their story. I'd personally suggest (and fully expect to get pushback for suggesting) that the overall cast is one of the best realized in the franchise, and that while Byleth is not the strongest lead, their background and place in their world makes them an interesting character to inhabit.
Also, what problems exist in Echoes and Three Houses that originated in Fates? Because so far, you seem so laser-focused on the existence of Avatars as the ultimate issue that you've forgotten that Echoes didn't feature one.
Last edited:
Sorry for the spaghettiposting.
Maybe I should've used a different term than "plot" or "story" when describing Fates's problems. Maybe "setup" or "groundwork" would've been better.
It's not really a hot take. Corrin is explicitly the only main protagonist in Fates, while there's four others in Three Houses. This isn't a race, and I don't care which game looks worse compared to the other.
Which is why I said Corrin was part of the problem with Fates, alongside the rest of the incompetence and terrible writing on display, which is present in more than just the underdefined setting. They're an idiot that rarely behaves anything like a relatable human being, and that's a problem not just for the plot, but the whole cast.
Maybe I should've used a different term than "plot" or "story" when describing Fates's problems. Maybe "setup" or "groundwork" would've been better.
Female plot irrelevance is a shame, but not actually a problem I'd zero in on for Fates. Especially when the women in this game have so many more problems in their personalities than their roles.
Being interesting isn't the same as being good or likable, especially when I feel that it comes at the cost of all the other characters.
Avatar or no avatar, there were a lot of rotten writing and character tropes that seemed ported directly from Fateswakening into these games, and those that made it into Echoes damaged the shockingly good groundwork Gaiden had given it.
I mean, I like Byleth, and so do other people. That just comes down to a matter of preference at a point and isn't worth wishing that the franchise had died instead.
...Such as?
The recycling of the premonition from Awakening, and the superimposed current-era character tropes in the form of Echoes's original characters that would be familiar to anyone who's played Fateswakening and New Mystery making the plot worse overall.
And their design. Camilla is embarrassing to say the least. And there are some classes I refuse to reclass the female characters, like mounted classes, because of those terrible outfits.
Well, at least we are in agreement that, despite being a problem, Corrin aren't the main reason Fates sucks so much. It's only redeeming aspects are the music and Conquest gameplay.
You know what is kind of funny? IS realized that Awakening story was mediocre, so they hired a mangaka to write an outline for Fates. But the result is something even worse than Awakening. Three Houses is an improvement compared to the 3DS games, but overall, another mediocre story. If only they stopped with the routes, avatar characters and just focused on telling a good story from beginning to end.
Last edited:
I hate Byleth because of how badly they're integrated into the supports and the game in general and the very concept of a silent FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTER in a series all about character interactions and the development of their relationships (something a brick wall that has poorly animated laughing animations cannot do) but yeah, it's overblown to want the series to die over that.
Just hope we eventually get one new game where the main characters is their own entity and not a self-insert for the player.
Just hope we eventually get one new game where the main characters is their own entity and not a self-insert for the player.
What does the bolded even mean? Is this a weirdly phrased criticism of turn-rewinding that Awakening and Fates didn't even have?
Also, I don't know how to tell you this, but Fire Emblem characters have always been pretty trope-y, newly added characters to remakes or no. I mean...pick one. Path of Radiance? Ilyana is always hungry. Blazing Blade? Florina is androphobic. Saying characters in a modern Fire Emblem are trope characters when trope characters have been a staple of every entry in the series is just...not really saying anything of substance? And even if you want to criticize characters like Camilla...there really isn't a Camilla analogue in Echoes or Three Houses. No one since Fates has been as over the top as her.
I can't remember if there's any class in this game that doesn't wear assless chaps.
Didn't they scrap all but a few elements of what they hired him to write? It's honestly impossible to figure out what they were trying to do with this setting.
I still feel like all the time I've dedicated to Fire Emblem after Awakening to be mishandled, though. That's not something you're supposed to feel towards a franchise you love, is it?
No, I mean the Premonition chapter that started Awakening. They recycled that idea with the CG of Alm and Celica stabbing each other at the start of the game.
My criticism is of specific tropes that became way too prevalent ever since New Mystery, of which the Avatars are one of. Avatar-obsessed stalkers like Tharja and Camilla are another, along with any other character that feels less like a person and more like a catered fetish. Ilyana and Mia were tropey, but they never felt like sex objects the way the royalty in Fates were.
And there may not have been a Camilla in Echoes, but Faye felt a whole lot like a hybrid between Cordelia and Tharja in her construction, and was especially grating as a sign that IS isn't nearly as over their Fateswakening habits as people claim. See also: the DLC characters in Three Houses (Jeritza and the Ashen Wolves)
Last edited:
This is a comical stretch. I mean...no. No, you really have to explain it better than that.
So there are certain, specific tropes you don't like, most of which are apparently tied to your already clear disdain for avatars, in a series where character tropes have shifted with time because...tropes in popular media shift with time. OK. As far Faye is concerned, she's one specific character added to Echoes among several completely new additions to the remake, and it's not even mandatory that you bring her along. And that's on top of the fact that every pre-existing character in the game has far more character to them given the general dearth of characterization that existed in OG Gaiden. You can't really point a finger at Faye and only Faye and say that Echoes is just as bad as Fates. That's just nonsense.
Also, how you go from criticizing the tropeishness of Faye and then extending that to Jeritza and the Ashen Wolves, I'm really not clear on.
As a sidenote, and this isn't totally relevant, but if you look hard enough, you'll find people that are *really* into Ilyana's eating habits.
sure, you're allowed to believe that as much as I'm allowed to believe that western gba fans ruined the series as well.
fe7 doing really well in famitsu polls points this being much more a global thing but i feel like shitposting today
The Lachesis thing never actually happens, and it's not used as a marketing point. The crime there lies with Heroes turning her into a loli and flanderizing the incest like what they did with Eirika and Ephraim.
Cecilia as a suitor for Roy is just something I laugh at, because Percival and Elphin are right there with actual work relationships to her, and yet they're not as supported because the game couldn't take the effort to give different endings for pairings other than Roy's.
Cecilia as a suitor for Roy is just something I laugh at, because Percival and Elphin are right there with actual work relationships to her, and yet they're not as supported because the game couldn't take the effort to give different endings for pairings other than Roy's.
I...what?
You can't be serious with these takes, especially the bolded.
Still a bad take!
Also, Laquesis is 15 in Genealogy. What the fuck are you arguing about Heroes, seriously?
I'm going to repeat myself.
Laquesis was already canonically 15 in Genealogy of the Holy War. How did FEH make her a "loli"?
Cause I thought that's how most western FE fans knew her from. The art she got made her look like a loli.
They're the same character by different artists. I don't know what to tell you.
and sigh the genealogy thing gets more confusing because of the oosawa manga which had a huge impact on the (admittedly smaller fandom) back then.
Int Sys to its credits does interact with the fanbase a good bit and generally has a good pulse of the japanese audience (I think they're getting better with the western fanbase too).
edit. GRAMMAR.
Int Sys to its credits does interact with the fanbase a good bit and generally has a good pulse of the japanese audience (I think they're getting better with the western fanbase too).
edit. GRAMMAR.
Last edited:
Yeah, IntSys should definitely get credit for that. Especially when it's not easy to square the opinions of all the different flavors of FE fan.
I'm not entirely sure how seriously they'd take feedback from someone whose first thought regarding the franchise is that it should have been killed a decade ago, though.
I could have mentioned that, but it's such a horrid act that it's almost cheating in the context of this conversation.
I'm looking for an anime or anime game franchise that can fill the hole in my heart that Fire Emblem punched into me after FE13. What should I play?
I like it, but there's too many people who think Edelgard is a good person because she's pro-LGBT and think Rhea is anti-LGBT because Edelgard doesn't like her.
Now please give me a serious answer.
Couldn't think of anything but I googled "Anime like Game of Thrones" and found this list: 10 Anime That You Should Watch If You Like Game Of Thrones
Triangle Strategy is another game that is very similar to the Fire Emblem franchise if you haven't played it yet.
Not the same thing, but yeah, TS may calm the thirst for a FE game.
Need? No, not at all. In any case maybe playing those games may make you not love TS as much because it isn't exactly like those games.
On its own TS is a very lovable game that will for sure calm some of the thirst for a FE game, not all though.
Man, I am angry Turn Wheel is still in Engage. I was fine with Casual Mode, and I was fine with Phoenix Mode. Just toggles at the start of the game, but Turn Wheels are too intrusive to the gameplay and story experience. I will have to get used to completely ignoring this mechanic, I guess.
At the very least Turnwheels should be disabled in anything except Normal...
At the very least Turnwheels should be disabled in anything except Normal...
Yeah, it's not like you can disable it like in previous ways the series was casualized. The turnwheel is just obnoxious and kills a lot of the tension in story and gameplay.
And might as well argue you can't complain about half of the things in a FE game if "not literally forced" to see/use them is your metric.
EDIT: But if you actually have to spend precious resources on the Turnwheel and it's not just free redos like people are theorizing in Engage it would actually be a big improvement over the previous games.
Man, my ideal FE gameplay is just to spam savestates, so I love having the Turnwheel around. I've much preferred it to Casual Mode and its necessitated removal of death quotes.
As someone who would reset and redo entire maps when I lost a unit, I love the rewind mechanics.
It doesn't change the RNG so you still have to think about how to change your strategy. I don't see if as a tension killer, just a time saver.
It doesn't change the RNG so you still have to think about how to change your strategy. I don't see if as a tension killer, just a time saver.
I am not really against the mechanic itself, but that there is no way to disable it unlike Casual/Phoenix mode. I haven't played Three Houses, but I heard that Maddening really suffered balance-wise because of it (the game being impossibly hard during the early-game to account for redos). I just think it"s extremely hard to have a well balanced game with Turnwheels like the ones in Echoes and Three Houses.
Bottom line is that the mechanic directly hurts the experience (for me, at least) even if you ignore it.
Bottom line is that the mechanic directly hurts the experience (for me, at least) even if you ignore it.
FEs 11 to 14 had obnoxiously hard difficulties with unfair scenarios without even having Turnwheels in them. Need I state how Lunatic+ in FE13 requires you to reset spam if too many enemies have Hawkeye and Luna+ combos?
The point is that Turnwheels aren't encouraging or enabling this bullshit. It's merely a new element that mitigates them way better than removing permadeath ever did.
Not really. Most of the games you mentioned have difficulty levels that feel tested and with a balanced difficulty curve. Previous FE games too. The new games (again, have not played TH, but this is what I have seen and heard) just don't have a balanced middle ground, unless you adjust your own experience and restrict yourself. I appreciate that this isn't Pokemon and the games still manage to give you those options but... wouldn't it be easier to just make turnwheels optional? Do you even disagree with that or do you just want everyone to enjoy playing the exact same way you do? I don't see who is losing by making them optional.