Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
Thats completely fair, and maybe that isn't the way they intended to word their post, and perhaps they posted that in frustration. Regardless, I personally don't believe just because someone started in 2013 and has the "framing" of how it all went down since then has a higher opinion of someone who started...say...last year.

If they would like to clarify their statement they are more than welcome to it cause I think every deserves to clarify statements. I think the temperature needs to come down a bit as some people coming in are trying to be combative a bit and I dont think that is very conducive to good or decent conversation.

Also I appreciate you coming at this in really good faith. I tend to read less charitably and just take everything literally. Tone in text is hard. So thanks. :)
I agree 100% with the notion I bolded above and my apologies for not doing so in the post prior, and as for how I approach things, yeah, liking games like FF2, FF13 and Dark Souls 2 has...let's just say it's allowed me to be really damn chill about gaming discussions lol
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
If you want a scene that's actually cringey from the game, the end of ARR 2.0 is up there. Now that one I'm embarrassed is in the game.

2.55 took any hope i had for FFXIV story and threw it away.

thankfully heavensward quickly backtracks everything and gave me faith.
 

PshycoNinja

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,286
Los Angeles
No, what you're doing is actually literally what the person you quoted is saying. Misconstruing people's posts, adding intent where none was meant, and using that to siphon up the idea that "ff14 story likers can't handle criticism! OP can feel how they want!" It's extremely apparent. Nobody is being told they can't express their opinion or feel how they feel in this thread. People are saying how they feel and then other people who feel differently are responding. That's like, uh, the entire point of a discussion board.

"The ridicule I have personally seen in this thread." This is the exact inflammatory language being deployed that the person you quoted is talking about. Who the hell is being "ridiculed" in here?

I think you are the one adding intent and inflammatory language here my friend. I have seen posts just a page ago saying "how can we not make fun of this poster?" or trying to qualify peoples opinions due to how new they are to the game. We have both seen it. If you can wait till I am done with work I would be happy to go back through the tread with you and point out posts if that is your wish.

You have a good rest of your day! :)
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
I mean, the thread title is about shitting on this game's writing, something I've been wanting to do ever since my started to share this cutscenes with me.

I understand that people like this stuff and I'm glad that they do. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. It's all in good fun.
Shit on the game's writing all you want, as long as you buy your buddy a beer (or equivalent friendly gesture) to tell them you appreciate them (this isn't to imply you don't do so or haven't done so just a genuine reminder)

Opened a book, pulled out a random page, balled it up and ate it.

Wasn't to my taste.
Tbf you probably have to roll it up and smoke it (please do not do that)
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,109
Y'all aren't even trying anymore, goddamn.

This really is the "airing out my dirty laundry" thread now.
hey, I've never played this game before, but this cutscene hundreds of hours into the game sucks. I don't know any of the characters or the context for what's happening, but...

I mean, the thread title is about shitting on this game's writing, something I've been wanting to do ever since my friend started sharing these cutscenes with me.

I understand that people like this stuff and I'm glad that they do. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. It's all in good fun.
what
 

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,315
I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
I think you are the one adding intent and inflammatory language here my friend. I have seen posts just a page ago saying "how can we not make fun of this poster?" or trying to qualify peoples opinions due to how new they are to the game. We have both seen it. If you can wait till I am done with work I would be happy to go back through the tread with you and point out posts if that is your wish.

You have a good rest of your day! :)

That poster came in here, posted a scene completely out of context, admitted that they didn't even play the game, and called it "weeb shit," stating that they "don't understand how people can be into it." But yes, the people responding to him in kind are the ones doing the ridiculing...

That other poster was saying that your perspective will vary depending on WHEN you started playing the game. And they're absolutely correct.
 

kayos90

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,710
I think you are the one adding intent and inflammatory language here my friend. I have seen posts just a page ago saying "how can we not make fun of this poster?" or trying to qualify peoples opinions due to how new they are to the game. We have both seen it. If you can wait till I am done with work I would be happy to go back through the tread with you and point out posts if that is your wish.

You have a good rest of your day! :)

I would like to see the posts of the bolded. You're gaslighting people at this point. These are inflammatory actions and baiting people trying to have a discussion and you have the audacity to call out these people instead of perpetrators. While I appreciate you wanting to keep the discussion in proper decorum, you're excusing the legitimate criticism for how this thread has devolved into under the guise of "civility." That's an extremely disingenuous action and I don't appreciate the moral grandstanding that you're taking.
 
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Bossking

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,680
I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.

I've never played Last of Us 2 but I did see this one cutscene where they brutally beat some guy to death and that's pretty fucked up and kinda gross that you're into torture porn.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,284
Critics of FFXIV seem to really dislike their criticisms being challenged. Any time you see this kind of thread pop up, whether it's about story or design choices in the game, if there's a handful of people who disagree, you get complaints about FFXIV fans being incapable of accepting criticism, that the fanbase is a hive mind, blah blah blah. It really makes you wonder why they decided to put their opinions on a forum if rote agreement was all they were looking for.

I wish some of these things could be discussed in like an actual calm nuanced way because sometimes the takes criticizing the story are out of this world mischaracterizations of what's actually going on to fit peoples critical narratives and I don't even *love* this game to the extent that most fans actually do. I think there's plenty to criticize the game for top to bottom, but it feels like this always happens with certain media that have some problematic readings. Like, I have complicated feelings about some Star Trek shows or Stargate SG-1 or something, but instead of like an actually calm critical take on, say, Voyager and the crews' actions throughout the show you just have people drive-bying those threads with something like"Janeway's a war criminal and defending her is just irredeemable, lol" or "SG-1 actually racist and reactionary military propaganda, sorry to spoil your fun." Okay great, conversation's off to a great start!
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.
Yeah you're straight-up trolling at this point.
 

Eidan

AVALANCHE
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,731
I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.
I gotta say, I do think it's a bit strange that you're posting so much in this thread. I know fuck all about Destiny 2, and I would feel pretty uncomfortable going into a thread criticizing any aspect of it armed only with some YouTube videos I watched.
 

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,315
Shit on the game's writing all you want, as long as you buy your buddy a beer (or equivalent friendly gesture) to tell them you appreciate them (this isn't to imply you don't do so or haven't done so just a genuine reminder)

Don't worry about that, I've been up for hours trying to finish up a gift for them.
I just happened to stumble on this thread while doing so and I couldn't help but give my piece.
My friend is a weeb and that's okay. Nobody's perfect and I accept them the way they are.
Lmao.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.

what do you think has good writing that isn't grounded-horror "prestige" stuff? what kinda all ages stuff do you think has good writing? what about stuff aimed at teens?
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,109
I gotta say, I do think it's a bit strange that you're posting so much in this thread. I know fuck all about Destiny 2, and I would feel pretty uncomfortable going into a thread criticizing any aspect of it armed only with some YouTube videos I watched.
Funny thing is you'd actually have to experience Destiny 2's story via YouTube videos, because major aspects of the story have been vaulted.

My friend is a weeb and that's okay. Nobody's perfect and I accept them the way they are.
???
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,402
I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.

For some reason I had a feeling TLOU would be mentioned as the bar of quality lol. Anyway yeah Endwalker's writing is better. TLOU1 and 2's performances are fantastic though.
 

Melody

Member
Oct 28, 2017
861
Yeah, out of context FFXIV in particular is pretty um... Silly. It doesn't have the highest budget, the best animation, and while the music is good the sound quality is generally not the greatest so I'm sure it looks terrible from the outside.

Just wait until your friend sends you Endwalker stuff. That's when you get into true power of friendship territory. Lol

I guess you gotta have some anime BS tolerance to really get the most out of the game, for better or worse.

I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
Don't worry about that, I've been up for hours trying to finish up a gift for them.
I just happened to stumble on this thread while doing so and I couldn't help but give my piece.
My friend is a weeb and that's okay. Nobody's perfect and I accept them the way they are.
Lmao.
lol edit: best of luck with that gift
 
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CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,315
what do you think has good writing that isn't grounded-horror "prestige" stuff? what kinda all ages stuff do you think has good writing? what about stuff aimed at teens?

Spider-Man 2018 had a very good final act.
RDR2 is a masterpiece too.
There's a ton of games with good writing aimed at all kind of people.

Out of games too. Into the Spider-Verse is aimed at kids/teens and it's perfect.
 
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Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
24,571
I think the fact that people kept saying that this game deserved a GOTY for its story alone is what gave me this huge whiplash when I saw those scenes.

I fully expected to see some TLOU-level stuff (Which is what I consider good writing) but no, it was some usual FF anime writing, which I simply can't take seriously. Maybe it's great anime writing I don't know, but I was definitely expecting something else considering how people were talking about this game.

I don't get this anime argument, like clearly you don't watch anime to distinguish between what is anime dialogue and what is happening in this game. Animes can have really ridiculous dialogue and tbf there are moments when even XIV falls to their tropes but to discount the whole game as anime bullshit is reductive especially when you are basing your arguments out of handful of cherry picked cutscenes with zero context. and besides you don't need to have AAA TLOU quality dialogue to tell a good story, I think having that standard is the problem.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
and while the music is good the sound quality is generally not the greatest so I'm sure it looks terrible from the outside.



I can't believe this song was released like this.

Spider-Man 2018 had a very good final act.
RDR2 is a masterpiece too.
There's a ton of games with good writing aimed at all kind of people.

of course. there is no form of writing or storytelling that doesn't have things i enjoy. variety in storytelling is amazing. though my favorite kinds of storytelling use allegory a lot, and tend to exist in worlds with much different realities.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
well even with its issues at least some characters of colour are still alive in FFXIV so it has that over TLOU

attributing race to fictional characters can be complicated, but which do you consider POC? Au Ra and Miqo'te are both directly modeled on Asian faces. Au Ra being more direct with the Far East being based on various Asian regions. you can see with G'raha Tia in the Endwalker CG especially. a lot of Hyur are based on Asian faces, even though Eorzea is "Europe", but that is more complicated, as are Roe. though Roe like Gosetsu are meant to be POC. most Viera are depicted as POC. Highlander vary, being the "human" equivalent.
 

Zero-ELEC

"This guy are sick" says The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,611
México
One thing I will always bemoan about XIV is how fucking white the main cast/the Scions are. Like the darkest character, Shtola, keeps getting whitewashed. and its funny how light skinned some characters are (Lyse, Yda, Alisaie, Alphinaud) considering their close family's skintones.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
attributing race to fictional characters can be complicated, but which do you consider POC? Au Ra and Miqo'te are both directly modeled on Asian faces. Au Ra being more direct with the Far East being based on various Asian regions. you can see with G'raha Tia in the Endwalker CG especially. a lot of Hyur are based on Asian faces, even though Eorzea is "Europe", but that is more complicated, as are Roe. though Roe like Gosetsu are meant to be POC. most Viera are depicted as POC. Highlander vary, being the "human" equivalent.
Not to derail but I go through this in my head so damn much regarding XI's player races and while I do miss XI I'm happy XIV's customization options shit on XI's from a great height and XIV still has a long way to go in many regards on that front as well and I hope the Devs get there cuz certain features are long overdue like Black hairstyles and Hroth in general.

One thing I will always bemoan about XIV is how fucking white the main cast/the Scions are. Like the darkest character, Shtola, keeps getting whitewashed. and its funny how light skinned some characters are (Lyse, Yda, Alisaie, Alphinaud) considering their close family's skintones.

Same, called that shit from jump and it's why I made my Roe the way they look (though like with all my player characters across all games I tend to draw inspiration from a uncle I grew up with that I looked up to)
 
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Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
Not to derail but I go through this in my head so damn much regarding XI's player races and while I do miss XI I'm happy XIV's customization options shit on XI's from a great height and XIV still has a long way to go in many regards on that front as well and I hope the Devs get there cuz certain features are long overdue like Black hairstyles and Hroth in general.

i'm going to be honest. i don't think there's anything SE can do about hrothgar. they dug a hole that requires resources they're never going to put towards it to fix. i see people hoping the "graphics update" will fix it, but they miss that the graphics update is essentially just adding onto what is already there. it'll just be the same skeleton wearing a new face.

black hair on the other hand, very much something that can be improved.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
i'm going to be honest. i don't think there's anything SE can do about hrothgar. they dug a hole that requires resources they're never going to put towards it to fix. i see people hoping the "graphics update" will fix it, but they miss that the graphics update is essentially just adding onto what is already there. it'll just be the same skeleton wearing a new face.

black hair on the other hand, very much something that can be improved.
Oh yea I agree Hroth are p fucked, like....I'm convinced they literally grabbed the XI wire frame prototypes from the Ronso-fied Galka prototypes and ported them forward or something to dig that hole so deeply cuz nothing else would explain why they did things the way they did but I'm also p damn ignorant on the subject so maybe it was faster to do what they did.

And yea hopefully black hair gets added soon.
 

Eidan

AVALANCHE
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,731
Just give me the black dude from Strangers of Paradise's hair. I'll lose my mind if they come out with new hairstyles and it's another batch of feathered bangs.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
Oh yea I agree Hroth are p fucked, like....I'm convinced they literally grabbed the XI wire frame prototypes from the Ronso-fied Galka prototypes and ported them forward or something to dig that hole so deeply cuz nothing else would explain why they did things the way they did but I'm also p damn ignorant on the subject so maybe it was faster to do what they did.

Yoshida essentially said Hrothgar were pretty hacked together. it's why their hair is (was? still waiting to see what happens there) tied to faces. given they had to introduce Viera and Hrothgar, two races with very complicated ears, when the game wasn't built with that in mind, resources were split. but this means adding new hair is very problematic without changing the underlying system.

if they had only made Hrothgar, and not Viera, I think Hrothgar would be very different.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,080
One thing I will always bemoan about XIV is how fucking white the main cast/the Scions are. Like the darkest character, Shtola, keeps getting whitewashed. and its funny how light skinned some characters are (Lyse, Yda, Alisaie, Alphinaud) considering their close family's skintones.

Some shots I've seen make it look like she used to be a lot darker; others look more similar to now. I don't know quite what to think as I never played 1.x, but it does seem like she was for some reason made a bit lighter at least once. I can't pinpoint exactly when, but below is the same shade she seems to have had at least through Stormblood:
tumblr_o7ecd0VhyF1upmjy8o4_1280.png
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,557
Modders have made hairstyles and ALL hats on hrothgar better than what they showed on the LL. No, this time they shouldn't be defended.
Make the ears clip, miqote and aura horns already do that.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
24,571
Alphinaud and Alisaie having snow white skin while their dad has a darker skin complexion is so weird to process, like holy shit was Ameliance's skin traits so dominant?
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
Modders have made hairstyles and ALL hats on hrothgar better than what they showed on the LL. No, this time they shouldn't be defended.
Make the ears clip, miqote and aura horns already do that.

editing something to work client side is not the same. if it were that easy, SE would have done it. your mods are still sending the same server side data it expects.

there are likely things within character creation and how that interacts with server code, and other things, that are giving them issues.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
Modders have made hairstyles and ALL hats on hrothgar better than what they showed on the LL. No, this time they shouldn't be defended.
Yea, I think the thing stopping SE (aside from being cheap which doesn't fly anymore given what YoshiP famously said) is that somehow if said mods were implemented officially they'd show on all clients rather than mods simply being client-side and somehow this would cause the game engine to self-immolate, which is still bullshit and they need to un-fuck those ears and especially fast track that Snow Hairstyle one cuz that's cash shop only nowadays and no other race has to compromise on their vidual identity to use that hairstyle and unless they're gonna program a discount for Hroth players who bought it prior or will buy it post 6.1its wrong that Hroth have to put up with that (and the overall situation more generally)
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,557
editing something to work client side is not the same. if it were that easy, SE would have done it. your mods are still sending the same server side data it expects.

there are likely things within character creation and how that interacts with server code, and other things, that are giving them issues.
This is not how 3d character models work. For the server code in this game your character is literally just a pixel, your hitbox, the client pulls out the texture and models from your game folder, nothing goes to the server, this game doesn't have collission of any way.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
btw, i don't think players should accept it. it's ridiculous.

i just think SE are absolutely, 100%, screwed. they chose the wrong path. it's been 3 years already.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
Still convinced they somehow used the FFXI Ronso Galka prototypes even though that is 99% unlikely but it definitely feels just as cursed
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,609
One thing I will always bemoan about XIV is how fucking white the main cast/the Scions are. Like the darkest character, Shtola, keeps getting whitewashed. and its funny how light skinned some characters are (Lyse, Yda, Alisaie, Alphinaud) considering their close family's skintones.

See this is something I agree with and I hope improves now that the story doesn't need to solely focus on the Scions. I love these characters but they need some more diversity.

I really hope that also by them doing graphical enhancements that they can also fix all of the frankly odd ways the lighting makes skin look like in the game.

And hair- seriously. The FF14 devs should look at all the hairs added to Guild Wars 2 around the Path of Fire expansion. They added a nice healthy amount of more diverse hair styles that weren't white European hairs.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,352
This is not how 3d character models work. For the server code in this game your character is literally just a pixel, your hitbox, the client pulls out the texture and models from your game folder, nothing goes to the server, this game doesn't have collission of any way.

that's just the final data being sent out. all the pieces along the way are the problem. yoshida basically admitted that they are struggling with the ability to have the game itself know that you chose this face with these ears, and then to apply the hairstyle.

in 6.1 i bet you can't change to the other racial hrothgar options, and only the original face you chose and the new hairstyles.

edit: essentially, i think the issue is the server side stuff, the information that OTHER PLAYERS are told to see, is the problem in this specific case. the server doesn't know that this player in your party chose this face and this hair and ear style because of the hacky way they were implemented.
 
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Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
Just give me the black dude from Strangers of Paradise's hair. I'll lose my mind if they come out with new hairstyles and it's another batch of feathered bangs.
I'm hoping they do that and also add some of the outfits from SoP cuz while playing that I was just thinking: "Oh hey caster gear that isn't all robes" last time I felt that was when I ran around in XI for a month recently.
that's just the final data being sent out. all the pieces along the way are the problem. yoshida basically admitted that they are struggling with the ability to have the game itself know that you chose this face with these ears, and then to apply the hairstyle.



in 6.1 i bet you can't change to the other racial hrothgar options, and only the original face you chose and the new hairstyles.

They should make all Hrothagr ears black fur then and have the Hroth players vote on a certain ear shape to be implemented uniformly later that way independent of the fur color or ear shape chosen they can be uniform and the game client won't have a meltdown.
 
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AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,080
By the way, I can't believe we've made it this far in a thread about representation in FFXIV without anyone mentioning what is by far the worst example of this in the game. Because good lord:

whalaqee-blue-mage-0-1572647525.png


Never mind that the Whalaqee are a completely tone deaf pastiche of Native Americans—feathered headdresses and spirit totems and all—it's actually a plot point that they've been ravaged by diseases carried over by explorers from the East. Which isn't to say they couldn't possibly tell that story well, but the lack of sensitivity around them so far doesn't fill me with hope. Man, whenever we go to the New World it has such potential to be a massive shitshow. I hope they figure this shit out before then.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
By the way, I can't believe we've made it this far in a thread about representation in FFXIV without anyone mentioning what is by far the worst example of this in the game. Because good lord:

whalaqee-blue-mage-0-1572647525.png


Never mind that the Whalaqee are a completely tone deaf pastiche of Native Americans—feathered headdresses and spirit totems and all—it's actually a plot point that they've been *ravaged by diseases carried over by explorers from the East.* Which isn't to say they couldn't possibly tell that story well, but the lack of sensitivity around them so far doesn't fill me with hope. Man, whenever we go to the New World it has such potential to be a massive shitshow. I hope they figure this shit out before then.
I got too used to forgetting that set exists cuz yea shit's fucked and I agree they better get their heads out of their ass whenever we do explore that area. I want non euro centric mythology represented in my RPGs but if the Dev in question isn't interested in doing so respectably then I'd rather they do literally anything else.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,609
By the way, I can't believe we've made it this far in a thread about representation in FFXIV without anyone mentioning what is by far the worst example of this in the game. Because good lord:

whalaqee-blue-mage-0-1572647525.png


Never mind that the Whalaqee are a completely tone deaf pastiche of Native Americans—feathered headdresses and spirit totems and all—it's actually a plot point that they've been ravaged by diseases carried over by explorers from the East. Which isn't to say they couldn't possibly tell that story well, but the lack of sensitivity around them so far doesn't fill me with hope. Man, whenever we go to the New World it has such potential to be a massive shitshow. I hope they figure this shit out before then.

Yeah, it's not great and while I do want to go to the New World I'm equally incredibly horrified at how easily they could mess it up. Like so easily.

And to sort of piggy back off of this I think your posts and others sort of make a point.

For all the complaints about: "FFXIV fans can't take criticism"... It's always said to people who HAVE THEIR OWN CRITICISMS. Just because we don't agree with YOURS (not you specifically, obviously, the people saying the line above) doesn't mean we aren't critical of the game we like. It shouldn't need to be said but here we are. Like apparently some believe that unless you accept all criticism as valid, then you can't handle criticism or have no criticisms of the game yourself.

There is plenty of the most ardent fans who have their own issues but just because we don't agree with your criticism doesn't mean we aren't critical of the game.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,854
By the way, I can't believe we've made it this far in a thread about representation in FFXIV without anyone mentioning what is by far the worst example of this in the game. Because good lord:

whalaqee-blue-mage-0-1572647525.png


Never mind that the Whalaqee are a completely tone deaf pastiche of Native Americans—feathered headdresses and spirit totems and all—it's actually a plot point that they've been ravaged by diseases carried over by explorers from the East. Which isn't to say they couldn't possibly tell that story well, but the lack of sensitivity around them so far doesn't fill me with hope. Man, whenever we go to the New World it has such potential to be a massive shitshow. I hope they figure this shit out before then.
They seemed to do Indian representation pretty decently when we went to Thavnair. They used Indian voice actors for all the Thavnairian characters, as far as I know, and the world/city design there seemed to pay respectful homage to appropriate architectural and cultural references. It's still possible for the New World to get a similar treatment when we go there, in terms of respectful Native American representation and cultural homages.