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Fanbyte: Portrayals of Latinx Characters in 2020 Video Games Already Have Me Tired [See Staff Post]
- Thread starter Deleted member 13101
- Start date
I included Latinx in my list of pronoums in the very post you quoted, so please read better and leave me out of your shameless atempt to characterize south american voices in this subject as regressive or as bigoted as it's already being discussed in some community threads (brigading time!) , someone even posted "they don't know any better" as if our tiny brown brains don't know bigotry when we see it.
Watching the Far Cry 6 trailer, Esposito's character for some reason felt the need to change to spanish to say El Presidente, Ubisoft want to make a "mature game" and ends up sounding like Tropico.
I have no idea what community threads you're even talking about. Not sure why you're lumping me in with them when I don't even post in any of them.
People in here have given you reasons why they dont like the word LatinX and different options that they use to include non-binary people that work better in spanish. Most people in here wouldn't use Latinx but agree with the message behind it, so stop trying to brand them as bigots.
Oh she's right on the money in her article. Farcry 6 left again rolling my eyes at some of the text/dialog shown during the trailer
One thing that i can understand being certainly difficult is that the term "latino" is such a broad term. Latino refer to 20 countries that share some stuff in common but also have incredible differences in culture and language; and portraying a proper representation fit for all those countries, it's impossible. If someone is (let's say) a Mexican character, it does not represent anything for people of Chile, Argentina or Colombia.
Not that current cases are any good at all; most of the time, a latino character, not matter what country they are from, they are probably doing poorly attempt at representing both their country and the latino community.
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One of the signs from the protest also read "VIVA LIBERTAD"
...I'm so tired.
Most people are not all people. There are multiple people who have directly said that non-binary people should use different terms to refer to themselves because they already exist in their countries specifically. And of course it's bigoted to tell non-binary people that they have to refer to themselves in a way that does not make you uncomfortable.
There is a big difference between the people who are talking about the difficulty of saying Latinx in Spanish vs the people like specifically kyo2004 who is repeatedly demanding that people use the pronouns that make him the most comfortable. I am specifically talking to the people like kyo2004, and of course he's acting bigoted.
Esposito is used to that shit.
"La decision no la suya para hacer"
Just awful
Because you are making the same mistake as them, you do not wanna engage in this conversation in good faith to the point that I stated latinx is an actual pronoum in the very same post you quoted just so you do your wall of shame.
You seem to percieve latinos as callous to gender issues, that is problematic. But don't worry, microagressions against us fly under the radar in this forum.
Lol, I love Tropico and that got a chuckle out of me. I could basically hear Penultimo.
You are saying that a person who is just voicing his general annoyance with the US-centric discourse and the imposition of several terminology and saying he is bigoted. I find it hard to call him bigoted when he said several other valid options that better fit the reality where he is from (such as latine, latin@s, etc). Also, his rant in spanish clearly shows it mainly comes from general annoyance of how USA imposes their will in LA even in a language way.
So you should be more careful when trying to throw the bigoted word around, even more when you are using it as a weapon to win in an argument with your allies.
I misread your post and meant to quote another one. The person that you were replying to was one of the people who said that they use Latinx to refer to themself for the gender neutral version, and people were telling them that they need to use different ones. Not sure why you're jumping onto the brigading train, or accusing everyone of being racist for something like that.
"Latino, Latina, and Latinx" is the only way to be inclusive.
I am Latino, and "Latinx" does not include me.
Not very much care for the culture was taken with this game, from what I can tell. A cartoonish/comic-style trailer, somewhat reminiscent of Narcos show introduction, followed by a ridiculous scene we have seen time and time again from the English-speaking villain, even though they are in a Spanish speaking country. Not even attempts to be realistic, but tries to make emotional connections because of the child, who also speaks English with an undefined Spanish accent.
Aside from language, the portrayal of revolution is a grim one especially since we know how Cuban dictatorship, which this game appears to be inspired by, affected the lives of those citizens. There have been enough movies that have represented this theme or concept in a much better way, and more inspired story, ie. Voces Inocentes, a story about the Salvadorian Civil War, dealing with children in military violence.
Art in the form of this Spanish-language film, Voces Inocente, will be a better substitute for the emotional impact the game, Farcry 6, might try to exploit.
I've been following this thread for a while and I'm a bit confused about something. I've read the article and in no way does she say that she's speaking for the entirety of all Latines/Latinx and even says that it's not a monolith, so wouldn't it make sense for people to choose what they want to be called?
Unless if Latinx is a derogatory term, what is the problem with her using It (I've read and understand the issues with text, how other countries have their own words, and the author doesn't seem to impose their words as the definitive authority)?
Apologies if this comes off as tone deaf or offensive, I'm legitimately curious.
Unless if Latinx is a derogatory term, what is the problem with her using It (I've read and understand the issues with text, how other countries have their own words, and the author doesn't seem to impose their words as the definitive authority)?
Apologies if this comes off as tone deaf or offensive, I'm legitimately curious.
Wow I had no clue Giancarlo wasn't Latino. But other than the casual spanglish that my family or friends use we definitely don't interchange words on the fly like that unless we actually forget the Spanish term for it. Also I don't like how most latine characters turn the air blue with profanity. Also we are not all sex gods or tattooed badasses.
Also on the topic of using Latinx or other gender neutral pronouns in Latin language. People are definitely free to refer to themselves however they feel. I personally use latine if conversing with a group of people I am not familiar with or if a person is non binary. And latinos-as if they are friends or if I know what they prefer to be called.
Also on the topic of using Latinx or other gender neutral pronouns in Latin language. People are definitely free to refer to themselves however they feel. I personally use latine if conversing with a group of people I am not familiar with or if a person is non binary. And latinos-as if they are friends or if I know what they prefer to be called.
Ketkat Did you address this post?
Natalie refers to everything as "latinx", not just herself. We are not all "latinx" no matter how hard americans want to label us that. Funny thing is latines already works in spanish. "Ellos son musulmanes, ellos son latines", see how easy it is?
Of course he's bigoted. You are not an ally to non-binary or trans people if you demand that they do not refer to themselves or identify in a certain way because it personally makes you uncomfortable.
He is accusing people of forcing the word onto everyone by including it any media whatsoever.
He demands that non-binary people use the words that are used in his country specifically because they are what he's used to.
When confronted about how this is just pulling the reverse of what he's accusing people in the US of doing, he pulls the tactic that people in Latin America are more oppressed than nonbinary people in the US, so apparently people in Latin America get to decide how people in the US identify.
This is not an ally. This is someone who has never spoken up about trans people on this forum in any other context than this one, and repeatedly argues against and demands that non-binary people refer to themselves in a different way than their preference.
Should be "Elles", ellos is masculine (yes, its the same problem as latinos).
I definitely use Spanglish when speaking to other bilingual people, but the cases in media where a character will just whip out a Spanish word for an English only conversation all the time is quite weird. I can understand it though. Living in a Spanish speaking country and being fluent in both languages I get stuck when speaking about my work since all of my education about the subject matter is in English, so I bring up English words in Spanish conversations sometimes.
The problem is with people imposing that label on all of us--even those of who us who do not identify as "Latinx." It's great that people are trying to be inclusive, but labeling *all* of us with "Latinx" is not the way to do it. I am Latino--I do not identify with "Latinx." If you want to be inclusive, use "Latino, Latina, and Latinx."
As always, if you use "Latinx" to refer to yourself, or if you feel that "Latinx" is inclusive of you, then more power to you. Just don't demand that everyone else to feel the same way.
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You accused an user of being bigoted even tho that person went out of the way to make a helpful list of non-binary pronoums used in his región. He later expressed his acceptance of gender fluidity while saying why he has issues with latinx.
Of course, the last part he wrote in spanish but you once again decided to not bother with that bad hombre shit and still went ahead and called him names.
Thats a pattern,
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Thanks for calling me bro in a thread specifically about how we're trying to push away from default male assumptions. I'm a trans woman, and I'd appreciate if you don't call me bro ever again.
My main complaints would be the awful overused spanglish and characters who can't even pronounce spanish words right.
wym, it's obviously pronounced "pen-day-hoe"
Lucky for us, they will voice act in mostly English!
Edit: Obviously sarcasm, given the "they" I am referring to is the Farcry 6 trailer.
I meant to show it works in present day with our current language. No one says "elles".
It's an article about representation of latines that ironically doesn't represent us properly.
Yeah no shit. Not anglocentric = does not compute.
Edited, I apologize for my mistake, you should learn to do the same, kyo2004 does not seem like a bigoted person
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Latinos can't derail a thread about Latino representation. By definition. The terms people use to refer to us are rightly a part of that conversation.
Maybe people should stop using Latinx as a catch all term for anything latin american and instead use it to refer to the people that actually identify as latinx.
Do they even have someone from Latin American to consult on their use of the language? (I know the answers, but still...)
The overuse of ¡, every written text so stale... "Muerte a Castillo" written in a mf granade sounds so rigid, like written by a 4th grade Spanish teacher... 🤦♂️
That's our secret, mijo, we all are :v
Seriously though, yes, the problem is that how the othering and dehumanizing approach works, suddenly every one of us is Inhuman, in the far side of the human spectrum, meanwhile the default being... y'know.
Ironically enough, the term "Latinx" is the opposite of inclusive in that >90% of Latin Americans do not feel included by it. I'll repeat: if you want to be inclusive, use "Latinx, Latino, and Latina" or some permutation of that. Or just use "Latin Americans."
I mean, the guy went out of his way to give examples of terminology that is not common at all in spanish speaking countries outside of trans-allies camps. The term latinEs is not something common anywhere.
He didn't demand anything, he voiced complains about being annoyed about how the term is pushed hard by USA centric media without any care of how the majority of the people the label will apply to feel about the terminology
If you read the spanish paragraph you would notice most of his complains come from USA imposing their will and forcing terminology that is not native into their language. Heck, the whole latino / hispanic terminology is already an imposition of USA in the language (it was born there to group immigrants easily) that ALREADY deletes the great diversity that exists in north, central, and south american (and the caribbean) by grouping them together without major care.
What he is saying is not asking to delete a way US people identify but rather to try and also look outside the US centric approach when writing to the general public as US media is the one of the most powerful tools of propaganda (and in that case language imposition).
I know, but "ellos" have the same core problem of latinos of being gendered by default.
If one term ever gets to be used generally I hope it's Latini, sounds so cool. "Nosotros los latini comemos muchos panini, y nuestro Pókemones favoritos son los Dratini" :v
Yeah, it's hard when I'm not proefficient in English to express my feelings about that... That's why almost don't participate in US forums about politics and/or slice of life things...
Thank you for expressing better my opinions... xD...
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Maybe let the author use inclusive language if they want to? Oh the horror.
I guess I'm "Dominicanx"? It's unpronounceable and makes no sense. Trying to de-gender a gendered language is a tricky subject, and while I understand the motivation for it, the -x suffix just does not work. If you want to be inclusive, make the effort and go the long way about it. I suppose "latinos, latinas y latines" should cover everyone?
I mean per the rules of our language, "latinos" does encompass every gender despite being a nominally masculine term, but if it's not something you're comfortable with I don't see any appropriate way around it other than to include extra terms rather than creating one that's universal but senseless.
I can't speak for everybody, of course, but here's my point:
Written pieces like this, coming from legitimate platforms and with well written criticism, well, legitimate their discourse and verbiage. Obviously. Which in turns normalizes and helps spread the language used.
What may not be obvious is how much of a monolith USA criticism and language is to a lot of us outside of it. Things get imported, fast, even more on internet age and with how much international dialogue happens.
To give you a concrete example - you know the terms that were coined to explain predatory behavior? Like "gaslighting" or "mansplaining"? Terms like those suddenly become part of our language and discourse. But they are not easy to say or to discern at all, because, obviously, they are not part of our language. Then, instead of us building our own way of speaking about issues and how they happen in our culture, we just borrow anglostuff and more and more require people to know less about our language and discourse and more about USA's. Of course, that does not mean those words or discussions are bad - not at all!! - but it means that more and more we grow dependent of our "good parents" to talk and evaluate our life in our daily routine.
Now, I am saying we should be doing triple duty into translating everything? No. Each case is individual. But, specifically, with "latinx", it's a nomenclature of our identity before the international community. Imagine that suddenly the UK starts calling Italians as anything other than italians and other countries start adapting it because hey, UK probably knows better. Doesn't feel great for italians, right?
Well, the hole is even fucking deeper since the whole "latino" or "latin america" label is already troubling and extremely complex in itself and not necessarily something that every country in it started to identify with. I don't know how other countries learn about it, but in my education I was taught that was how geographers decided to call the regions with countries colonized by Spain and Portugal. Which never made sense to me because there is already names for that - Central and South America. It's already a heavy brushstroke that ignores native folks from each country, the arbitrary borders each country got, the multitude of climate zones, specifities of language, etc, but also a label that was taken by a lot of academics and artists at a certain point to push ourselves. It's complicated.
And now, suddenly, even that label is not enough - for one country that has nothing to do with us - and a new one is pushed through the cultural distribution of identity talk on the internet. We are not given a choice.
Posters here are saying that nobody is forcing me to say I am "latinx" are right in the sense that, of course, I can say whatever I want. But they don't understand - either because they never dealt with or because they are blind to it - how cultural pressure from the anglo-rethoric works.
It happens with which movies and songs I "should" be paying attention to, which level of social discourse I "should" be at, etc. The word that comes from certain countries carries massive weight to others. It's how our world works.
There should be a standardized way of calling everybody in my continent? Probably. Should it be a term that magically encompasses every single person from 20+ countries that none of those countries choose for themselves? Hell fucking no. Let us tell you how you should call us.
Like, I know, personally, LGB (notice the lack of T) people here that call themselves elx. That's fine. They decided on that themselves. And I also know that there's discussion among them on the issues of the "x". It's a discussion that should happen and is progressing. But it will not if the biggest cultural cornerstone of our current society just normalizes something else without asking them first.
(And, of course, I should add, if and when the LGBT community of my country decides on a way of doing it, that means shit for Venezuela, or Mexico, or Guatemala)
Don't worry too much about it. You are doing much better than the 90% of Americans who never bother to learn another language, much less participate in non-English language spaces. Most of the people here giving you shit would never go out of their way to try to participate in a serious conversation that wasn't in their native English. They are blind to the privilege that their cultural imperialism grants them.
This isn't the first thread that he's been in about this issue. I get that his issue is with the US forcing terminology on other countries, but that's not what has happened with this term at all. It has no wide following, even in the US. And despite hanging out in trans circles for the better part of a decade when this term has picked up steam, I really have not seen anyone trying to force it. Some people identify with it and are going to use it in media titles like this, but that does not mean that they are trying to force anyone else to adapt it but to use a term that they self-identify with.
A fear of discrimination does not justify discrimination against other marginalized groups, and it never will.
I am sorry about including you in those quotes as I did misread it and miss the inclusion of Latinx on my 2nd reread when I was grabbing the quotes initially. Throwing a snide remark right next to an apology hardly makes it feel sincere even when it is, which I'm sure you'll agree when you read this sentence.
We are getting the best Latino representation possible...the US Latino.
The US gaming industry are not ready for real Latino representation because most of americans are ignorants about Latin American Countries.
About the LatinX word...i don't care. I don't even know what it means and this is the first time that i see it being use it...
As you can see in this thread, its not really inclusive when used as a catch all term but instead puts a label on people that they dont want.