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ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,238
It's interesting to see how many references to atmos are in this thread considering it may as well not be supported on Xbox. Around 20 titles out of 2500+ on Xbox support atmos which is pitiful after 3 years?

Sony's solution should hopefully make 3d audio far more commonplace in gaming. I can imagine they will have more than 20 compatible titles by Xmas tbh. And if it is better than the solution they employ for psvr then we are in for a treat. Resident evil 7s audio is first class, far better than AC Origins which is my pick for atmos on headphones.

Xbox One also supports 3D audio for headphones in the form of Windows Sonic, and that is supported by all titles.

Since Xbox Series X and S are starting the generation with Atmos support, I expect that many more titles will support it this generation.

Personally, I hate playing games with headphones on. I spend all day with headphones on in meetings. No thank you.

I prefer a multi-speaker setup, and 3D audio adds a ton of immersion to a setup like this (which already had incredible immersion, mind you!). Modern Warfare sounds incredible on my Atmos 9.2 system in my living room. Jets overhead, gun shots all around you, footsteps behind you, etc...

But without supporting Atmos or DTS:X, there's no way for the PS5 to send discrete audio to my 2 height channels. They'll be silent.
 

Sevvybgoode

Member
Oct 29, 2017
451
Xbox One also supports 3D audio for headphones in the form of Windows Sonic, and that is supported by all titles.

Since Xbox Series X and S are starting the generation with Atmos support, I expect that many more titles will support it this generation.

Personally, I hate playing games with headphones on. I spend all day with headphones on in meetings. No thank you.

I prefer a multi-speaker setup, and 3D audio adds a ton of immersion to a setup like this (which already had incredible immersion, mind you!). Modern Warfare sounds incredible on my Atmos 9.2 system in my living room. Jets overhead, gun shots all around you, footsteps behind you, etc...

But without supporting Atmos or DTS:X, there's no way for the PS5 to send discrete audio to my 2 height channels. They'll be silent.
Oh I agree for users that have decent room setups the messaging surrounding tempest audio must be concerning and frustrating.

But I seriously doubt atmos takeup will improve much next gen. It's had 3 years on Xbox and almost no support. Add in the fact you need to buy a license if you don't already own one and I doubt many studios will put additional effort in. After all Xbox has had this functionality for years and it wasn't an incentive during any of that time for the Devs.
 

Deleted member 19996

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,897
Oh I agree for users that have decent room setups the messaging surrounding tempest audio must be concerning and frustrating.

But I seriously doubt atmos takeup will improve much next gen. It's had 3 years on Xbox and almost no support. Add in the fact you need to buy a license if you don't already own one and I doubt many studios will put additional effort in. After all Xbox has had this functionality for years and it wasn't an incentive during any of that time for the Devs.

Seems to be some misinformation floating throughout this thread. The license is ONLY for using Atmos via headphones. There is no fee to use an Atmos home theater setup.
 

Sevvybgoode

Member
Oct 29, 2017
451
Seems to be some misinformation floating throughout this thread. The license is ONLY for using Atmos via headphones. There is no fee to use an Atmos home theater setup.
But I doubt many people use an atmos setup compared to headphones for Xbox games? Even the cheapest atmos setup is relatively prohibitive eh?

Good point for users with an atmos setup it's probably bundled with their kit but as I said I bet that's a small portion of users. I wonder how many units of the atmos headphone app have been sold on Xbox?
 

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,238
Oh I agree for users that have decent room setups the messaging surrounding tempest audio must be concerning and frustrating.

But I seriously doubt atmos takeup will improve much next gen. It's had 3 years on Xbox and almost no support. Add in the fact you need to buy a license if you don't already own one and I doubt many studios will put additional effort in. After all Xbox has had this functionality for years and it wasn't an incentive during any of that time for the Devs.

Again, end users with Atmos enabled receivers don't need to buy a separate license to use Atmos. Only headphone users need to buy a license. I believe this is because the license is in the decoding, not in the encoding. If you bought a receiver, you already paid for the Atmos license. If you have headphones, you pay $15 for the license to decode Atmos on your console, although I've actually seen it on sale for half price previously.

I believe that Atmos is free for devs and content creators.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,018
well it cant use tempest

Because there is no need. The USB adapter did the math in the Platinum and Gold headsets, along with PSVR. The Platinum headset is no different than the Gold, apart from better sound quality. The 3D Audio was enabled by the beefier dongle.

The Xbox One can do 5.1/7.1 VSS if there is no 3D audio metadata. Which of course is a lot less taxing than doing FFTs in 3D space with moving objects, since you are essentially taking 5/7 static points from the 2D HRTF Cerny showed and do the according transformations accordingly.
 

Sevvybgoode

Member
Oct 29, 2017
451
Again, end users with Atmos enabled receivers don't need to buy a separate license to use Atmos. Only headphone users need to buy a license. I believe this is because the license is in the decoding, not in the encoding. If you bought a receiver, you already paid for the Atmos license. If you have headphones, you pay $15 for the license to decode Atmos on your console, although I've actually seen it on sale for half price previously.

I believe that Atmos is free for devs and content creators.
This has become a weird sticking point. It may be free for atmos home setup users but how small a portion of xboxes user base is that? I'd like to see a breakdown of typical audio methods gamers use. I would assume that via tv is still number one but headphone usage has climbed massively over the last generation. I would imagine that multiple speaker setups are a tiny fraction of the user base with atmos setups being an even smaller part.

I'm not the only one who bought the atmos app on Xbox because I couldn't afford a full setup am I?

Either way this is getting the thread off track. The interesting thing is how well this 3d audio will work for headphone users who I imagine will be an even more increasing segment if this is more universally implemented. Psvr 3d audio is incredible, if this is remotely comparable I'm excited.
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
That is simply not true. The 7.1 Sony Silver VSS headsets use the same HRTF algorithm, but only map 7 speakers in the virtual space.
No, it is either binaural or surround. When using HRTF binaural, it is pointless to talk about any number of speakers. You can use an HRTF profile to simulate a surround system, but you are not getting binaural audio with that, you get virtual surround.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,018
No, it is either binaural or surround. When using HRTF binaural, it is pointless to talk about any number of speakers. You can use an HRTF profile to simulate a surround system, but you are not getting binaural audio with that, you get virtual surround.

There is a mixup with the terminology. Binaural audio as a definition comes from binaural recording techniques. Binaural audio through HRTF is a virtual simulation of this.

VSS is like a binaural recording while watching a 7.1 movie in a surround sound environment. It is limited, but only by the sound source.

VSS and 3D audio are both binaural audio. The binaural is in the algorithm and has absolutely nothing to do with the source.

Saying VSS is crap and binaural audio is good is pointless because they are the same thing. You are thinking about 3D Audio. If you don't feel VSS you won't feel 3D Audio because they work on the same principles.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,568
USA
This has become a weird sticking point. It may be free for atmos home setup users but how small a portion of xboxes user base is that? I'd like to see a breakdown of typical audio methods gamers use. I would assume that via tv is still number one but headphone usage has climbed massively over the last generation. I would imagine that multiple speaker setups are a tiny fraction of the user base with atmos setups being an even smaller part.

I'm not the only one who bought the atmos app on Xbox because I couldn't afford a full setup am I?

Either way this is getting the thread off track. The interesting thing is how well this 3d audio will work for headphone users who I imagine will be an even more increasing segment if this is more universally implemented. Psvr 3d audio is incredible, if this is remotely comparable I'm excited.
Dolby Atmos setups are not reserved for expensive systems anymore. It can be a simple upgrade for people with existing speakers, or is now on specially designed sound bars that are affordable. Many people are now going to end up with a Dolby Atmos receiver when they upgrade their old ones because it is being widely adopted by all the manufacturers. Sony itself supports Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision for many devices like their TVs and audio. PlayStation is being cheap. If the argument is headphones are common, then why should people get stuck watching a movie with Dolby Atmos and not be able to use that track on their headphones if that's their setup of choice? Or why not let people see it in Dolby Vision like other Sony products promote? If a game made a Dolby Atmos track and I have Atmos speakers or great headphones, what argument is there to not allow me to use that native experience besides saving PlayStation money like they chose to on PS4?
 

Anarion07

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,228
Saying VSS is crap and binaural audio is good is pointless because they are the same thing. You are thinking about 3D Audio. If you don't feel VSS you won't feel 3D Audio because they work on the same principles.

That's where i hope PS5 will make things better. This stuff often does not work that well for me and I think it's because of my small ears. So if they actually can get some machine-learning to create individual HRTFs for your ears that would be amazing. Or as Cerny stated an approximation by iterating over multiple sound demos and choosing what worked best
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
There is a mixup with the terminology. Binaural audio as a definition comes from binaural recording techniques. Binaural audio through HRTF is a virtual simulation of this.

VSS is like a binaural recording while watching a 7.1 movie in a surround sound environment. It is limited, but only by the sound source.

VSS and 3D audio are both binaural audio. The binaural is in the algorithm and has absolutely nothing to do with the source.

Saying VSS is crap and binaural audio is good is pointless because they are the same thing. You are thinking about 3D Audio. If you don't feel VSS you won't feel 3D Audio because they work on the same principles.
As you say, terminology can be a little tricky. I can agree with the first two points that you make. The thing that we are getting in the PS5 could be called virtual binaural, or simulated binaural even, as it will be artificially created and not recorded with an HRTF microphone.

But I strongly disagree with the rest. All that matters is the source of the audio. You can have a stereo system and feed it with a mono signal, you get mono. You can use an HRTF headset and feed with a 7.1 source, you get surround sound, not binaural.

I think the difference is clear. And for the record, I never said that VSS is worse than what we are getting in PS5 because I haven't tried PS5 yet. But I do really think that VSS is not good and can't really compare to listening to a real surround system, but if the PS5 success in the emulation of binaural audio, then the difference is going to be very notable.
 

Sevvybgoode

Member
Oct 29, 2017
451
Dolby Atmos setups are not reserved for expensive systems anymore. It can be a simple upgrade for people with existing speakers, or is now on specially designed sound bars that are affordable. Many people are now going to end up with a Dolby Atmos receiver when they upgrade their old ones because it is being widely adopted by all the manufacturers. Sony itself supports Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision for many devices like their TVs and audio. PlayStation is being cheap. If the argument is headphones are common, then why should people get stuck watching a movie with Dolby Atmos and not be able to use that track on their headphones if that's their setup of choice? Or why not let people see it in Dolby Vision like other Sony products promote? If a game made a Dolby Atmos track and I have Atmos speakers or great headphones, what argument is there to not allow me to use that native experience besides saving PlayStation money like they chose to on PS4?
I imagine Sony could release an app similar to what Xbox has done and provide coverage for atmos support. Especially now it has a uhd drive with the disc model. I don't see why they would do that over their own solution for games however when they are showing their proprietary format and atmos has had terrible support for games so far.

Could more effort being put into 3d audio with both next gen consoles mean more budget is put aside by devs and therefore more games support this? I really hope so and I hope it leads to more games having great 3d audio tracks.

Regarding cost for an atmos setup what do you recommend around the £100 mark? Possibly up to 200 pounds but with next gen consoles soon any more is unlikely. I've looked on hukd and tbh outside of the odd sound bar it's a bit barren.
 

FrankNitty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
593
SoCal
Would there really be a need for an app though. If the console passes bitstream correctly and the source has Atmos encoded on it, ideally it would just send it as Atmos.

Technically how Xbox currently does it is incorrect from what I can tell. When you select bitstream and any other device you never actually select a codec because it is bitstream. What Xbox does is you select bitstream and select a codec. It then always sends as Dolby Atmos even when it is not encoded in the source. Basically it is DS Upmixing if it doesn't have a Atmos mix. Ex. Gears 5 has an Atmos mix so it is proper for it to send Atmos. Now take Sekiro that does not have an Atmos mix, though a AVR or Pre/Pro is saying it is Atmos even though it has no mix for it.

Which is why if they do bitstream properly and send what is in the source there is no need for an app.

I guess we'll know come Nov 10/12
 

SeizenLaw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
113
Porto, Portugal
Assuming 'no', but the 3D audio doesn't have an effect on backwards compatibility, correct? Old games aren't going to have its effect on the PS5 because the audio of the game needs to be 'created' with it in mind?

This is what I was wondering as well.

Does this essentially mean that playing PS4 games on the PS5 will result in an inferior audio experience in terms of surround (compared to playing them on the PS4)? Or at least those that do not get a PS5 upgrade. Hopefully the PS5 upgraded ones would be expected to get the PS5 3D audio treatment?

Since I still have a current-gen backlog and value the audio experience I'm hesitating in selling my PS4 Pro...

Shame they couldn't at least license your regular Dolby/DTS currently on the PS4 for backwards compatibility and possibly even translate PS4-games' surround audio to the corresponding positional simulation of Tempest's 3D audio.

no, PS4 games will just with the same audio profile on PS5
unless some of them happen to get added Tempest 3D support
What do you mean with the same audio profile?
Are games that were originally surround on the PS4 going to be stereo-only on the PS5?

Couldn't they use multi-channel PCM translated to Tempest 3D for PS4 backwards compatibility positional audio?
 
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TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,294
This is what I was wondering as well.

Does this essentially mean that playing PS4 games on the PS5 will result in an inferior audio experience in terms of surround (compared to playing them on the PS4)? Or at least those that do not get a PS5 upgrade. Hopefully the PS5 upgraded ones would be expected to get the PS5 3D audio treatment?

Since I still have a current-gen backlog and value the audio experience I'm hesitating in selling my PS4 Pro...

Shame they couldn't at least license your regular Dolby/DTS currently on the PS4 for backwards compatibility and possibly even translate PS4-games' surround audio to the corresponding positional simulation of Tempest's 3D audio.


What do you mean with the same audio profile?
Are games that were originally surround on the PS4 going to be stereo-only on the PS5?

Virtual 3D Audio isn't going to change how standard surround sound works in games. BC PS4 titles and all PS5 titles will still work with surround sound systems in the traditional way.
 

SeizenLaw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
113
Porto, Portugal
Virtual 3D Audio isn't going to change how standard surround sound works in games. BC PS4 titles and all PS5 titles will still work with surround sound systems in the traditional way.
I see.

On the PS4 I currently have a nice and believable standard surround with headphones using a Dolby 5.1ch-to-Dolby-Headphone virtual surround device (PS4 optical out ----- Earforce DSS ----- headphones. The DSS, by Turtle Beach, is similar to Astro's mixamp).

So, if I got this right, would I still have a similar or even better positional experience when I play same game on the PS5 with the headphones connected to the controller or USB (might just require amplification if the volume is too low)? The PS5 by itself would hopefully simulate basic surround for headphones with the new Tempest 3D audio, no?

Or is it probably just going to work with an actual AVR and surround speakers, not headphones (headphones only for PS5 or upgraded/compatible games)?
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,294
I see.

On the PS4 I currently have a nice and believable standard surround with headphones using a Dolby 5.1ch-to-Dolby-Headphone virtual surround device (PS4 optical out ----- Earforce DSS ----- headphones. The DSS, by Turtle Beach, is similar to Astro's mixamp).

So, if I got this right, would I still have a similar or even better positional experience when I play same game on the PS5 with the headphones connected to the controller or USB (might just require amplification if the volume is too low)? The PS5 by itself would hopefully simulate basic surround for headphones with the new Tempest 3D audio, no?

Or is it probably just going to work with an actual AVR and surround speakers, not headphones (headphones only for PS5 or upgraded/compatible games)?

I think at this point we don't know if PS5 will attempt to virtualize surround sound for all games where the devs don't implement 3D audio. I think in your case you'd need an hdmi audio extractor to send DD 5.1 to your current headphones if you don't have an AVR. However earlier I was referring to LPCM 5.17.1 audio working the same as before. We don't know yet if they'll still have the option to encode that audio to DD or DTS.
 

SeizenLaw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
113
Porto, Portugal
I think at this point we don't know if PS5 will attempt to virtualize surround sound for all games where the devs don't implement 3D audio. I think in your case you'd need an hdmi audio extractor to send DD 5.1 to your current headphones if you don't have an AVR. However earlier I was referring to LPCM 5.17.1 audio working the same as before. We don't know yet if they'll still have the option to encode that audio to DD or DTS.
Yeah, I guess we'll have to wait and see, thanks.

I may get an extractor and plug it in only when I decide to play PS4 games (until there's an HDMI 2.1 version, if there'll be one, else may bottleneck/gimp some PS5 games in terms of VRR etc).

Hopefully it works well for the surround audio (unfortunately the other alternative for my case that I tried - TV's optical out - sucks, as the TV itself adds a noticeable delay, at least currently on the PS4 Pro).
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
I'm not entirely sure why this isn't an option. Microsoft has their own tech (Windows Sonic) that's also getting a next gen upgrade apparently but Xbox still supports Dolby Atmos. Hell, it's even getting that new THX thing.
My guess would be that they thought their solution is enough or Sony didn't want to pay dolby.
The Sony one can do more. More sources higher quality etc.

If everyone just stopped when something existed we would all still be using pcs the size of rooms.

Progress is good.
More sources compared to Dolby on Xbox One. Dolby confirmed they can support hundreds of sources. What we don't know is how many sources Series X|S will support. Besides options are always good and I say this as someone who applauds Sony approach with tempest and the fact that both console manufacturers have their own solution and dedicated audio hardware to push next gen in audio aswell.
This is pretty exciting. I wonder if the Dual Sense + 3D audio might make people change their mind of using PS5 only for exclusives and XSX or PC for third parties.
Mentioning DualSense is a fair point, but 3D audio is available on Series X via their own solution and Dolby. They also have a very powerful dedicated audio HW inside the console. Which solution proofs to be better remains to be seen, but I think both will be close and it won't matter to most people.
This console just feels rushed as fuck to make a November launch date.
I disagree with this statement. If anything Sony is very ready for this launch.

Edit:
I'm really hoping devs continue to take advantage of this throughout the gen, I really wish both Sony and MS could support both Sony's format and Dolby's format so that whichever devs wanted to use the option would be there for both. This is the type of thing a partnership is needed for.
Both companies created the HDR Group and work together to improve HDR on consoles. Thus it's not out of question and I would like Sony and Microsoft working together on audio aswell. For now they both spend years on research for audio and both invested lots in their dedicated audio hardware on next gen. The only difference being Xbox supports Dolby for games to accommodate their own solution. While Sony is focusing just on their own solution with tempest.

Edit:
How the fuck did a thread about tempest engine turn into something about Xbox? My god
It's more about tempest versus Dolby actually. Then some people started to use the Xbox as a example why Sony could support tempest and Dolby at the same time. Similar to Xbox. There is just lots of misinformation about Dolby (and Xbox audio). Some users tried to clarify this.

Sevvybgoode
You are right that Dolby wasn't used for games often last gen. But having PS5 support would've been great and probably lead to more developers opting for it as two consoles support it. Now we have a situation were PS5 is just supporting tempest, while Xbox supports their own solution alongside Dolby. I hope devs take advantage of Sony/MS solutions, but surely it would've been easier for them to just support Dolby and be able to use it on both consoles.
 
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Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,050
Oh I agree for users that have decent room setups the messaging surrounding tempest audio must be concerning and frustrating.

But I seriously doubt atmos takeup will improve much next gen. It's had 3 years on Xbox and almost no support. Add in the fact you need to buy a license if you don't already own one and I doubt many studios will put additional effort in. After all Xbox has had this functionality for years and it wasn't an incentive during any of that time for the Devs.
Games only need to support the Spatial Sound API.
This can then be used with your preferred Spatial Sound processor: Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, and DTS:X.
Personally I find that DTS Headphone:X sounds best if it has a profile for your headphones, but Dolby Atmos for Headphones is better than DTS' generic profile - and games which specify Atmos support rather than Spatial Sound; e.g. Resident Evil 2.

Developers do not need to explicitly support Atmos for it to work though - whether that's via headphones or speakers.

Again, end users with Atmos enabled receivers don't need to buy a separate license to use Atmos. Only headphone users need to buy a license. I believe this is because the license is in the decoding, not in the encoding. If you bought a receiver, you already paid for the Atmos license. If you have headphones, you pay $15 for the license to decode Atmos on your console, although I've actually seen it on sale for half price previously.
Many gaming headsets include an Atmos license now too, if you get the Xbox version.

As you say, terminology can be a little tricky. I can agree with the first two points that you make. The thing that we are getting in the PS5 could be called virtual binaural, or simulated binaural even, as it will be artificially created and not recorded with an HRTF microphone.
But I strongly disagree with the rest. All that matters is the source of the audio. You can have a stereo system and feed it with a mono signal, you get mono. You can use an HRTF headset and feed with a 7.1 source, you get surround sound, not binaural.

I think the difference is clear. And for the record, I never said that VSS is worse than what we are getting in PS5 because I haven't tried PS5 yet. But I do really think that VSS is not good and can't really compare to listening to a real surround system, but if the PS5 success in the emulation of binaural audio, then the difference is going to be very notable.
You really bought into Sony's marketing, huh?
The PS5 is using virtual surround. 3D audio (for headphones) is virtual surround.
Virtual surround tech has been creating a "simulated binaural" signal using HRTFs since the '90s.

The thing that makes Tempest different is that it can process a lot of objects at once (hence the name). By itself, that doesn't really have a lot to do with virtual surround. They also have selectable HRTF profiles, rather than a single HRTF.
Selectable HRTFs is not a new thing either though. Rapture3D has been bundled with PC games for years and has several HRTFs to choose from.

Assuming 'no', but the 3D audio doesn't have an effect on backwards compatibility, correct? Old games aren't going to have its effect on the PS5 because the audio of the game needs to be 'created' with it in mind?
I would not be surprised if the dozen or so games which support 3D audio with the Platinum headset on PS4 still require it on PS5, as it seems specific to those headphones rather than a generalized solution.
You won't get 3D audio in backwards compatible games which were only using surround sound unless Sony also develops an upmixer - and I doubt that they would, since they seem to care so little about backwards compatibility.
But it should be capable of supporting virtual surround in older games when using headphones. Will it though? Who can say.

Would there really be a need for an app though. If the console passes bitstream correctly and the source has Atmos encoded on it, ideally it would just send it as Atmos.
Bit-streaming generally refers to playback of pre-recorded audio tracks (though technically all digital audio is a bit-stream).
To play Atmos audio from a game, the system has to do real-time encoding. That's what the app/license is for.
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
You really bought into Sony's marketing, huh?
The PS5 is using virtual surround. 3D audio (for headphones) is virtual surround.
Virtual surround tech has been creating a "simulated binaural" signal using HRTFs since the '90s.

The thing that makes Tempest different is that it can process a lot of objects at once (hence the name). By itself, that doesn't really have a lot to do with virtual surround. They also have selectable HRTF profiles, rather than a single HRTF.
Selectable HRTFs is not a new thing either though. Rapture3D has been bundled with PC games for years and has several HRTFs to choose from.

Lol, how can you say that I bought into Sony's marketing when in the very post that you are replying to, I'm saying that I'm doubtful about Sony achieving what they are claiming 😂

I think that due to the terminology, we are getting a little confused here, and I don't know if you have read all the previous posts I was exchanging with the other guy, so I'm going to try to clarify.

This person claimed that the 7.1 virtual surround sound that you find in many headphones is the same that the binaural audio that PS5 is marketing, and I say that this is not correct. It is true that for simulating a virtual acoustic environment, they use HRTF, which is the same concept that was shown in the Road to PS5 video. But the use that they are making of it is completely different.

In these Virtual Surround Headphones, HRTF is used to simulate 5 or 7 speakers in a fixed position in the virtual space, and then, the game engine will feed them with audio signals like if you were using a real home theatre system. This mean that the engine of the game, will modify sound objects output with level, panorama, filtering, etc. but not in the same way like if the final output was going to be Binaural Audio, 3D audio or whatever you like to name it. I'll give you an example: in Assassin's Creed Origins, when an object is emitting sound from behind the player, the game engine will automatically apply it a high frequency filter and some reverb (even in open air spaces, which is horrible xD), and then, the HRTF process made by the headphones for simulating that the sound is coming from a speaker behind you, will again apply some filtering and maybe some other stuff, so you'll get a very artificial sound that won't match with the one that you would get in real life.

As you see, this is very different from 3D audio (or binaural audio), where an infinite number of positions can be simulated thanks to HRTF and interpolation methods. In this case, the developers will treat the audio in a different way than if they were targeting a surround system, and the final result will feel different.

I hope this clarifies the point I was trying to make 😅

I haven't tried myself Rapture 3D, never heard about it. My only experience with binaural audio has been with recordings and a live concert I went some time ago (it was really cool). I have also tried PSVR and 3D audio modes of Ghost of Tsuhishima and Last of Us 2, but I found them quite disappointing. I prefer the sound that my 5.1 system provides.

That said, I'm very hopeful with PS5, with the processing power of Tempest (also meaning that devs don't have to choose between usage of the CPU for sound or other things) and the HRTF profiles, I think that we can really fell an improvement next gen regarding the sound experience we get, but we will see...
 

FrankNitty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
593
SoCal
Bit-streaming generally refers to playback of pre-recorded audio tracks (though technically all digital audio is a bit-stream).
To play Atmos audio from a game, the system has to do real-time encoding. That's what the app/license is for.

That makes sense in regards to encoding real time I still do not think we have seen a proper implementation of it because only 1 company is doing it. Which their implementation of Bitstream was iffy when it was added via firmware some odd time ago. Just the fact you have to even select a codec forcing it to always try and pass as Atmos is strange. Of all the equipment I have touched that is the only device I have seen do this. It's basically dolby surround upmixing.

I understand the need to process it in real time in accordance with position location of character etc, I still feel there has to be a better way to deliver it where it is not forced upmixing for games that do not have an actual atmos mix

I'll have my analyzer back by the time they releases so I should be able to see what they are passing exactly.
 
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uncleniccius

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,082
I have a new thought stemming from this.

Surround sound was locked to PlayStation headphones via USB on PS4. If all headphones via USB are supporting 3d audio is it possible that is changing?
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,050
I have a new thought stemming from this.
Surround sound was locked to PlayStation headphones via USB on PS4. If all headphones via USB are supporting 3d audio is it possible that is changing?
I wouldn't expect PS4 games that can only do 3D audio via the Platinum headset to work with any headphones on PS5.
Sony are even requiring that you use the PS4 camera with a PSVR on the PS5 - it doesn't work with the new one.

What seems more likely is that games which support 7.1 audio outputs could be virtualized when using headphones on PS5, but I'm not even sure if they'd support that.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I wouldn't expect PS4 games that can only do 3D audio via the Platinum headset to work with any headphones on PS5.
Sony are even requiring that you use the PS4 camera with a PSVR on the PS5 - it doesn't work with the new one.

What seems more likely is that games which support 7.1 audio outputs could be virtualized when using headphones on PS5, but I'm not even sure if they'd support that.

This would be really disappointing if so.

I wanted to play Uncharted 4 and TLOU2 with 3D audio but I didn't want to have to buy a headset just for that.

You'd think that the 3D pulse would work or something.
 

Zeroth

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
What exactly makes this 3D audio different from the one we already have in the market? Even mobile games offer 3D audio with good accuracy, so what's new about Sony's offering?