Negotiable if you can put it. Otherwise put a 5% increase on what your skills are worth by researching on the internet
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'Expected salary' questions on job applications are ridiculous
- Thread starter fracas
- Start date
A lot of time Salary ranges are fluid. We may set a budget aside but then come across the perfect candidate who is like 10-20k above budget. And we jump on em. Often times when you post a Salary you make a lot of the people you want pass over your Job description and all the people who aren't qualified shooting their shot for $ signs they see.
Hiring is a VERY tricky. There's a lot of trust between strangers involved. Something you should do though is always having a target and then asking for above that target and seeing how that company reacts.
I would ONLY ever do this in a face to face discussion. On an online job application submission form, overshooting their window is a great way to get filtered right out.
There is a movement happening though its not bullet proof.
New Jersey: effective January 1, 2020
New Jersey's salary history law prohibits employers from:
screening applicants based on their salary history;
requiring that prior wages meet any certain criteria; and
considering an applicant's refusal to volunteer salary information in any employment decisions.
Employers may consider an applicant's salary history and verify salary history only if the applicant voluntarily discloses that information. Similarly, while employers may acquire publicly available salary history information, they may not retain or consider that information when deciding the compensation of an applicant unless the applicant provides salary history voluntarily and without prompting. New Jersey's statute does not apply to applicants for internal transfer or promotion, or to an employer's use of knowledge obtained due to prior employment.
New York: effective January 6, 2020
New York employers will be prohibited from:
Notably, unlike New Jersey's law (and many other salary history bans), the prohibitions against seeking and requesting salary history also apply to current employees seeking positions or promotions internally. Employers may confirm salary history only if, at the time an offer with compensation is made, the applicant voluntarily discloses prior salary information to support a wage higher than the wage offered.
Cincinnati, Ohio: effective March 13, 2020
Employers with 15 or more employees in Cincinnati will be prohibited from:
Employers may, however, discuss salary and benefit expectations with an applicant without asking about salary history. Employers also are not prohibited from inquiring about or considering a job applicant's salary history if such information was disclosed by the applicant voluntarily and without prompting, or in the context of a current employee's internal transfer or promotion. Additionally, upon the reasonable request of an applicant who has received a conditional offer of employment, an employer must provide the pay scale for the position in question.
New Jersey: effective January 1, 2020
New Jersey's salary history law prohibits employers from:
screening applicants based on their salary history;
requiring that prior wages meet any certain criteria; and
considering an applicant's refusal to volunteer salary information in any employment decisions.
Employers may consider an applicant's salary history and verify salary history only if the applicant voluntarily discloses that information. Similarly, while employers may acquire publicly available salary history information, they may not retain or consider that information when deciding the compensation of an applicant unless the applicant provides salary history voluntarily and without prompting. New Jersey's statute does not apply to applicants for internal transfer or promotion, or to an employer's use of knowledge obtained due to prior employment.
New York: effective January 6, 2020
New York employers will be prohibited from:
- seeking or requesting salary history; and
- relying on the salary history of an applicant in deciding whether to make an offer or determining the wage to offer the applicant.
Notably, unlike New Jersey's law (and many other salary history bans), the prohibitions against seeking and requesting salary history also apply to current employees seeking positions or promotions internally. Employers may confirm salary history only if, at the time an offer with compensation is made, the applicant voluntarily discloses prior salary information to support a wage higher than the wage offered.
Cincinnati, Ohio: effective March 13, 2020
Employers with 15 or more employees in Cincinnati will be prohibited from:
- inquiring about a job applicant's prior salary;
- screening job applicants based on salary history; and
- relying on an applicant's salary history in deciding whether to offer employment or in determining the salary to offer during the hiring process.
Employers may, however, discuss salary and benefit expectations with an applicant without asking about salary history. Employers also are not prohibited from inquiring about or considering a job applicant's salary history if such information was disclosed by the applicant voluntarily and without prompting, or in the context of a current employee's internal transfer or promotion. Additionally, upon the reasonable request of an applicant who has received a conditional offer of employment, an employer must provide the pay scale for the position in question.
A recruiter caught me off guard once where I thought I was having an introductory call and then I was asked for a number. I went, "Based on industry trend and what I could get in my current field [not true], I think around 120K is fair and I can negotiate around."
The recruiter paused and when I finally got the offer it was over 120K by a good chunk.
Moral of the story, go high in person or over the phone.
The recruiter paused and when I finally got the offer it was over 120K by a good chunk.
Moral of the story, go high in person or over the phone.
"I don't like limits on my potential" is the answer.
"Surprise me".
"The Sky's the limit".
"No limes superior".
"Surprise me".
"The Sky's the limit".
"No limes superior".
Exactly. Which is why myself and many others believe it's not for the noble reasons the hr people in this thread will have you believe.
Every position has a range and they know that range before they ever talk to you.
Edit typos, stupid phone.
Yup. And savvy candidates will negotiate anyway even if it is above the range. HR can fix it easily. They just choose not to.
Kinda a stupid question, but how do you do this? Every offer i've had from a job has come via email where they send me an offer letter. Do you just straight up respond to that email saying "Hi I was looking more for <X>"? Or do you generally get called with your offer and that's where you're negotiating?
Don't answer it if you want, but it is a good idea to know your market value. Those things are easy to find with a bit of research
You can reply with something like, "Thank you for your offer. I am delighted to be potentially joining your team. However, the compensation is a little lower than I was expecting. Do you have time to talk on the phone?"
I especially hate this question for salaries in something like commercial banking or any other field where the pay can vary substantially even in the same city.
Made the mistake in the last two interviews where they point blank asked me what I made at my last job and demanded a number and I got facial reactions both times when I told them. I've thought of better ways of tackling the question since then for future interviews but I kinda got the impression I was partially filtered out because of what they believed were my salary requirements.
Made the mistake in the last two interviews where they point blank asked me what I made at my last job and demanded a number and I got facial reactions both times when I told them. I've thought of better ways of tackling the question since then for future interviews but I kinda got the impression I was partially filtered out because of what they believed were my salary requirements.
I did an interview with other companies in my field in 2018 and it made me realize that competing companies were mostly paying less for someone with my experience than what my company does. I think I told one interviewer my exact current salary at the time was and he responded that they typically gave 10-20k less than that for what I was applying too.
Glad this is illegal in my State. We can still ask what you want to make, but can't ask what you do make. Saves people from getting screwed for years based on one bad job.
In this instance, I got a direct e-mail from a recruiter that was very hypothetical, and said something like if management were to offer you the job, what would your desired salary be. I had put the same amount as my desired "minimum" salary when filling out the application as the one that I responded to him. I also stated that based on my research of the position and the years of experience I have, I believe that I'm worth X...a couple of days later I got an offer of exactly X with no negotiation. Not sure if it played any role, but I wrote the people that interviewed me a killer thank you letter, too XD
I was so unprepared for the possibility of getting what I asked for that it took a while to sink in that I wouldn't have to negotiate. At all. Since the company acted in good faith, I did too, and I instantly accepted the initial offer.
At my current job (that I'm leaving), I got super low balled initially. I said thank you for the offer and that I was excited for the opportunity, but then I politely asked if there was any way I could be considered for a bit more and I got an increased offer a day or two later.
EDIT:
Exactly this, except I had to go through HR and not the hiring manager directly both times I've done this.
Yeah, exactly. I guess I can understand why some people would feel nervous having to state something, especially if you recently graduated or are applying for jobs for the first time in awhile, but would you rather have your time wasted with follow-up interviews with companies that will immediately turn you down once they learn what you want to get paid.
For my current job I met my prospective manager in the pub, and he asked me my expected salary. I said a number that was high, but not unreasonable - certainly far more than I had been on in my previous job.
His answer was a very short "yeah, we can do that".
Fucks sake!
His answer was a very short "yeah, we can do that".
Fucks sake!
I think the worst is when they ask why you want to work for them. I was applying for jobs when I was unemployed and I remember I gave a fluffy answer like "It seems like an interesting industry to get into and will be a good fit for my skills", and they were like "No, why do you want to work for us" and I had to bite my tongue to not say I was fucking unemployed and I would work anywhere at that moment.
Yeah, I fucking hate this so much.
YOU HAVE A FUCKING BUDGET FOR HIRING
YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THIS JOB IS WORTH
WHY ARE YOU BEATING AROUND THE BUSH
JUST GIVE ME MY FUCKING MONEY
Ugh. Sorry. I just get really annoyed.
It's happened a few times that I say, "Negotiable" until FINALLY they reveal their budget/number. But then nothing happens. It's like. Okay.
PS if hiring web/mobile dev in SF PM me :p
I despise this practice and refuse to disclose. I have had so many discussions with recruiters where they implore me to tell the hiring organisation my current salary to which I respond that the salary should reflect the responsibilities of the offered role, not be what that org deems an appropriate jump from my current salary.
I remember one such recruiter making a comment when he asked the question about how "people come in expecting a 20-30% increase in salary over their current role and are always disappointed", recommending a 5-10% increase. Three weeks later I'd bagged a job that offered 50% more than I was currently on through one of his colleagues where I refused to disclose my previous salary.
OP, use what resources you can to find an approximate industry standard in the area you're looking at, then bump it up expecting to get knocked down. More often than not you'll end up getting offered more than the minimum you'd have accepted.
Usually the company wants to know if you have done your research when they ask this question. Just part of the process
If you advertise the salary on the job description then surely this screening would be done for you by the applicants?
One thing I will add is that negotiation can be difficult, especially if you're going by an intermediary like a third party recruiter. In my experience it's generally better to be clear to your representative because they are then passing that on to the hiring company.
In my last job hunt I told him "if they can offer me £x" I'll accept immediately. No hedging bets or shooting above or below just a straight number. The hiring company then has the option of offering lower but risking losing you as an applicant. I received my ask without any issue which I was very surprised at as I deliberately aimed high.
It just requires you having a number in mind which you're reasonably confident of, but giving your recruiter the ability to say "if you offer this it's a guaranteed acceptance" can make negotiation easier.
In my last job hunt I told him "if they can offer me £x" I'll accept immediately. No hedging bets or shooting above or below just a straight number. The hiring company then has the option of offering lower but risking losing you as an applicant. I received my ask without any issue which I was very surprised at as I deliberately aimed high.
It just requires you having a number in mind which you're reasonably confident of, but giving your recruiter the ability to say "if you offer this it's a guaranteed acceptance" can make negotiation easier.
Probably to get someone who is desperate for less than the budget by obscuring what they really want to pay. If they told you the maximum amount then all the applicants would want that.
Yeah it's obvious HR is trying to get someone who will work for less. The line about this saving time is just corporate bullshit
I always put a little more than what I'm willing to make. Like 10-15% or something, and then just negotiate from there. Maybe it's filtered me out of some job interviews I would have otherwise gotten, but if they aren't willing to come close to that number, then why would I even want to work there?
IMO there's a big difference between asking someone's expected salary range and their salary history.
Asking someone's salary history is a direct line to reinforcing all sorts of systems of bias and inequity. Asking someone their salary expectations gives them the opportunity to save themselves a lot of time interviewing if they and the company are too far apart.
I can't count the number of times I've seen a candidate go through an expensive, time consuming interview process only to discover at the very last step that they were expecting twice the salary the company could pay for the role. It wastes everyone's time and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouths.
Asking someone's salary history is a direct line to reinforcing all sorts of systems of bias and inequity. Asking someone their salary expectations gives them the opportunity to save themselves a lot of time interviewing if they and the company are too far apart.
I can't count the number of times I've seen a candidate go through an expensive, time consuming interview process only to discover at the very last step that they were expecting twice the salary the company could pay for the role. It wastes everyone's time and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouths.
I've out down TBD in that field before. I've also asked the HR person to speak to the salary range prior to them asking my my expectations.
My new job, they wanted a number and I kept postponing until we did an in person interview. Gave them a figure that was 30% over my salary and they took it. So overall pretty good.
My new job, they wanted a number and I kept postponing until we did an in person interview. Gave them a figure that was 30% over my salary and they took it. So overall pretty good.
I agree a bit, but at the same time I've had multiple interviews where that wasn't on the application process and as soon as they bring up salary basically the interview is noticeably over. Had one recently where the interview was going perfectly, they were talking about concessions and changes as if I already had the job and then they talked about compensation and I said even less than I was currently making and they all but physically recoiled in reaction to what I said.
So then put that on the job description and people who want more won't waste their time applying.
I really hate this question, and especially now that I live in another country where I'm not as certain of the average salary. But for the first job that I applied for that asked this question, I put an amount slightly above the average I found online and I actually was offered about 1k more. So now I'm like hmm maybe it's a good thing to gamble and put a higher amount than you think you should haha.
How about when you advertise the job you say what the expected salary range is and stop wasting their time?
Get your paycheck back: owe the company money instead of paying you. Surprise!
As an HR professional myself, I think approach is wrong. If you are that worried about it, you should post a range and take the applicants you get from doing that. No good comes from that question, and if anything only bad things do. I am very happy this(outlawing this question) is becoming the law of the land in more and more places.
I had a phone interview yesterday where they asked for salary expectations. When I told them what I was after, they said it was a little high and then gave me the actual salary range they were looking to pay. With the available bonus structure the two numbers were pretty close, but it would have been nice if they just said, "We are looking to pay $X-amount for this role. Is that in line with your salary expectations?"
Seriously. This is such an easy solution to the problem.
Fucking this. It's infuriating especially when the position isn't anything to write home about