Do a dual protagonist game in the style of TLoU 2 and have Cal favor saber combat and Cere favor Force powers.
FO really lacked a great presence of TFU style force combat and Cere seemed incredibly powerful in that area.
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Ex-Respawn dev claims that some of the Jedi Fallen Order team wanted a non-white protagonist
- Thread starter ket
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FO really lacked a great presence of TFU style force combat and Cere seemed incredibly powerful in that area.
Only time I ever really ate crow regarding a white male protagonist looking dull af was with Arthur Morgan from RDR2, but outside of that, it's just on the mark every other time. Fallen Order in particular always stood out as being exceptionally dull because even outside of using a PoC, they could've at least gone with a humanoid alien or something. Cal was so damn boring
As a very pale white redheaded male, really really do not like the term Ginger please and thanks, I definitely do not think Cal being a redhead is some kind of equivalent exchange for a BIPOC character and it is shitty to act as though this is in fact some kind of important diversity win in the face of corporate meddling and interference shooting down a female/BIPOC protag cause Rey already existed or some other such nonsense. It's wrong to try and use that to downplay the grievances others have with this. I appreciated it as it is fairly uncommon and like that others recognize that fact too, but at my age it's not super meaningful anymore and I fully understand why this would be viewed as completely irrelevant by many, especially other minorities, as the situations we face are just not comparable.
And while I understand and share people's frustrations with that choice and especially their anger with others trying to prop it up as though it is as equally important/meaningful, or close to it, in attempts to dismiss that dissatisfaction, I am saddened by the rather callous and dismissive attitudes presented in this thread about redheads and what discrimination we do face. Again, totally fine with people taking issue at the comparison by others who are using it to try and downplay the shittiness of the situation and pointing out they're not at all the same, it is not comparable to other marginalized/minority groups that face real systemic/institutionalized discrimination, but you don't have to be such a massive cunt about it when you do so as if the issues redhead do face don't exist or matter at all. It is widespread, pervasive, and often quite constant. And when confronted usually just leads to more abuse and ridicule for even mentioning it and feeling hurt by it.
And while I understand and share people's frustrations with that choice and especially their anger with others trying to prop it up as though it is as equally important/meaningful, or close to it, in attempts to dismiss that dissatisfaction, I am saddened by the rather callous and dismissive attitudes presented in this thread about redheads and what discrimination we do face. Again, totally fine with people taking issue at the comparison by others who are using it to try and downplay the shittiness of the situation and pointing out they're not at all the same, it is not comparable to other marginalized/minority groups that face real systemic/institutionalized discrimination, but you don't have to be such a massive cunt about it when you do so as if the issues redhead do face don't exist or matter at all. It is widespread, pervasive, and often quite constant. And when confronted usually just leads to more abuse and ridicule for even mentioning it and feeling hurt by it.
This would've been great as Debra Wilson has been good in everything she's in, and that angle of the mentor of a fallen disciple as main protagonist hasn't been explored in Star Wars outside of the Obi-Wan show.
Honestly my hope from literally late game J:FO1 was that a sequel would expand upon itself and have other characters in their crew playable and focused on.
Rebels was in my head at the time and I was just like imagine if the sequel was so varied in gameplay.
Cal and Cere as Jedi with combat like the original(unique abilities to really separate them)
Merrin with her own unique magic gameplay
then have a brawler
lastly someone like a Sabine Wren(ranged weapons, speed, maybe a jetpack)
Rebels was in my head at the time and I was just like imagine if the sequel was so varied in gameplay.
Cal and Cere as Jedi with combat like the original(unique abilities to really separate them)
Merrin with her own unique magic gameplay
then have a brawler
lastly someone like a Sabine Wren(ranged weapons, speed, maybe a jetpack)
Oh I get it. Give the guy the physical abilities and the girl the magical abilities. That's a great ide- wait a minute
Not what I was arriving at all. Cere is obviously a better force user then dualist. She almost crushed Vader.
Cal rules. I think the reactions to his unveiling were understandable for the most part. And, obviously, I'd be all for this. But the character himself turned out a ton better than many predicted, for whatever that's worth.
I'm sure this is the case for most triple AAA games at this point. There are hundreds of people working on these and that means you will get people who wanted a PoC or female protagonists. This one just stands out in particular because they chose one of the whitest people on the planet to play MC lol. Then of course you have the fact that Trilla and Merrin are both excellent characters. I really like Cal and I like the actor that plays him but it just feels like a missed opportunity.
I feel like I've had this argument a billion times before in the jrpg community. I too can come up with thousands of excuses to put the lady in a non-physical role in combat. At the end of the day it'll still be leaning into a fantasy fiction stereotype driven by gender bias, and dare I say... s*xism
It would be cool to see someone from a South Asian background be the MC in the next Star Wars game.
I don't personally have a huge problem with Cal as a character or Cameron Monaghan as an actor, I think he's a good addition to Star Wars even if it retreads a bit of Ezra from Rebels' ground (but a lot of Fallen Order does in general), but man, some of the commentary has always been to me a bit unfairly disrespectful/nasty towards CM, who I'm sure was hired because of his work in Shameless and Gotham and not because he's "one of the whitest people on the planet/"wow that is the most white male you can go". Almost as stupid as comparing representation for People Of Colour and LGBTQI+ to representation for red heads...
All that said, of course, Star Wars and all those huge franchises (Marvel, DC etc...) have a lot of work to do in making their universes diverse and inclusive and their reasoning is pretty underwhelming as for why they chose to go in that direction and worth criticising (though its likely marketing/attaching an actor to the role/Star Wars in general probably happened super early and had more to do with it than anything else, and devs were not made aware of this)
All that said, of course, Star Wars and all those huge franchises (Marvel, DC etc...) have a lot of work to do in making their universes diverse and inclusive and their reasoning is pretty underwhelming as for why they chose to go in that direction and worth criticising (though its likely marketing/attaching an actor to the role/Star Wars in general probably happened super early and had more to do with it than anything else, and devs were not made aware of this)
It really is a missed opportunity. Everyone chiming in solely saying how much they liked Cal only further drives home how much of a missed opportunity this was because this could've been a likable new SW character that represents some demographics underrepresented across SW media's leads. The quality of the character is beside the inconsequential
Can't have two prominent Jedi be women. Imagine how confusing that would be for the fans.
The movies had a white woman, so obviously the answer to counterbalance that was yet another white man lol oof
It was the only logical choice, their hands were tied!
This was my thinking as well. Disney wouldn't even let DICE go wild with skins for Battlefront
Pretty safe to say, their choice for protagonist in the final game was the wrong one. I literally stopped playing the game because of how much of a nothing he was.
I love the logic of "well theres one woman out there as a main character now so we need a dude"
Clearly it doesnt apply when its male after male after male after male on all previous examples, nope.
I enjoyed the game but making the main character just another white boy was a real bummer. Such a large galaxy and nope, cant be a main character unless you're a white boy.
Clearly it doesnt apply when its male after male after male after male on all previous examples, nope.
I enjoyed the game but making the main character just another white boy was a real bummer. Such a large galaxy and nope, cant be a main character unless you're a white boy.
Need a new Bounty Hunter game wher we play as Sabine and Ketsu
pre-Rebels.
Be careful suggesting alien alternatives, it will get you banned like the user below.
I dunno what that's about, but it'd really strange for someone to read my post as me being a troll
You know they could theoretically center an entire game around this idea which would, given how Disney sabers work, result in Cere getting white sabers. Which, given that she had Trilla's saber seem like that's exactly what they plan on doing with her character. That's honestly such a no brainer sequel premise idea tbh since Cere's arc wasn't completed.
It's funny how he is having to walk on eggshells here trying not to overly upset anyone.
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I loved Cal but I'm entirely down for more Jedi stories with representation.
I'm itching to play an Ahsoka game in the same vein.
I'm itching to play an Ahsoka game in the same vein.
Let's be honest here, they aren't going to reference the protagonist from Fallen Order in any other Star Wars property ever.
He's so bland I bet that most people who played Fallen Order already forgot him (I certainly have) and most of the people watching Star Wars movies and tv shows won't know who the fuck he is anyway.
EA can claim Fallen Order is canon as much as they want, but I doubt it will ever be more canon than for example the Jedi Knight or KotOR games were (as in, the events and characters from those games are never mentioned in the more mainstream entries of the franchise).
The games are canon and some things you pick up as Luke in the Battlefront 2 campaign show up in the later movies. :)
I enjoyed the story despite the generic parts but wouldn't have minded whoever and definitely would have been interested if I've been like an alien species :0
Just give us... Something?
Just give us... Something?
Some set designers for The Last Jedi throwing an item in the background as an easter egg isn't exactly strong proof that the games are really canon lol.
Not that it matters whether its canon according to Disney or not, it doesn't influence the quality in any way, but I was mainly refering to how something being "canon" is a poor excuse for not having a character creator.
The dude from Fallen Order will likely not be directly referenced in any non-game Star Wars content and hell, even if they did they could just do the thing videogames do when they have to reference to a player character without a set gender, race and/or species and just decide something for themselves. Like Revan being a man or The Exile being a woman named Meetra Surik.
Not having a character creator as a choice is fine, not everything should have a character creator, but something being "canon" isn't necessarily a valid reason for not including one.
Yea ofc. Squadrons is also canon and it has a character creator. Ultimately it depends on the games, each one will handle this differently.
Man, this thread is just reminding me of how absolutely dull the story telling of Fallen Order was.
Not that this matters to the point of this thread, which I regret diverging from to begin with. We'll have to see if he shows in Obi-Wan, which is when he would likely appear.
More importantly! Devs voicing for more diversity should be celebrated not shot down.
He was actually very very very recently mentioned in a piece of Star Wars property.
This is where I am. Cal's characterization was actually surprisingly good, and I'm fond of him. That scene where he takes a deep beath right before sneaking into Fortress Inquisitorius has stuck with me.
Hilariously bland in the context of all the designs Respawn could have gone with, though. Just another flavor of white dude? In that universe? Same vibe as that CB2077 cover.
I bet there are voices in the room suggesting a different direction more often than we tend to think. To some degree, the "just another flavor of white dude" phenomenon is built on dismissal and rationalization.
Not to be pedantic but:
Cal's lighsaber hilt was voted and won to be added as an option in the Star Wars lands at the theme parks (actually beating out the likes of Anankin and Qui-Gon's Saber hilts)
Other way around actually. Dave Filoni designed it himself. While they were making the game they were aware that it'd essentially be a prequel to TFA/TLJ.
Meanwhile I'm listening to the latest big novel audiobook that released, *checks notes* yesterday…, and he has a straight up cameo early on in the novel, along with his master. There's no need to insist that the game isn't canonical at all and that the characters won't be referenced outside the games. Or to insist that most people share the same opinion when it comes to the reception of the character.