EW: Kevin Feige and Tom Holland talk Spider-Man
- Thread starter Halbrand
- Start date
I doubt it. Considering they now have access to wolverine and deadpool, among a plethora of others, spiderman's leave won't be affecting the mcu at large that much.
You're still going to. Sony is making the sequel to Far From Home. It's just going to be devoid of all MCU connections.
Protect what? They own the rights to the solo Spider-Man movies, they have nothing to lose by letting Spider-Man also appear in MCU films, it builds goodwill with fans and gives them free advertising.
Disney is the hold up, they want a financing deal would give them broad control over the franchise. That was their whole plan from the get go. If you co-finance a movie you have effective co-ownership of it in many respects.
They probably thought they could get it too by intertwining Spider-Man's story so much so with Iron Man. Sony didn't take the bait.
Sony always balloon their budgets for their Spider-Man films outta control, with marketing and all.
Watch them do less net than what they had could do hypothetically with Disney, even at 30%, in their next film.
Weren't Homecoming and Far from Home cheaper than every other Spider-Man film sans Raimi first one in the 00's?
Hire a better producer, plain and simple. That's not some magic formula only Disney has access to, there are plenty of good producers and directors that are hawks at bringing in a picture on budget without much fuss.
It just really won't make narrative sense anymore.
I'm serious when I say the best thing Sony could do would be to have Peter just fall into an alternate dimension. Whatever they do next is gonna be shit, but at least then they don't have to handwave away everyone else existing.
They can just time jump a bit and move on to the next Spidey villain anyway. Peter Parker is likely college age in the next one anyway so his life will start to change.
I'm not really sure if Feige had anything to do with that but that was mostly just Disney realizing that they got played. They wanted good PR but got the opposite. Once egos got sat aside, they were able to resolve that whole issue.
This is two companies who both want more money, I don't think something like that is gonna get easily resolve anytime soon.
You know, it's completely unfair of me but I see all of these and think, "fucking Disney, ya'll make 3 billion dollars an hour, just give in this one time!". It's a business so they don't really work that way but fuuuuck.
Protect the existence of those rights. They disappear if other companies use the character and the owner doesn't intervene. That's a big reason why companies sue for copyright infringement in the first place. If you don't protect your IP, it stops being your IP.
Of course they want control of the franchise. They already had it. Marvel is not going to allow random characters to enter their universe without creative control. They have meticulously crafted the most impressive and profitable franchise in the history of cinema. The first of its kind. Yeah, they want control. Obviously. It's better for everyone if they get it.
Variant Venom cover by Rob Liefeld
I think that's what Tom Rothman is for... for the budget...
Sadly it won't help an inch with the actual quality of the movies :'v
But I still think they are going to go overboard with the budget the next time due shoehorning Venom + Marketing to outdo the already existing bad buzz. Even with Rothman; reboot or not.
Well they're not getting it in this case. They can swallow their pride and realize they make plenty of money as if they really "care about the fans", but they don't give a fuck about that, this is about IP control for them, the whole thing was a way to try and eventually force/coerce Sony to have to give up a large portion of control over the Spider-Man franchise.
The funniest part of it all is basically Tom Hardy probably fucked them out of it by doing such a good job in the Venom movie, now no way is Sony just gullibly going to hand over a large control share of the IP when they just did $860 mill on a Venom picture.
So the idea of Sony shoving Venom into the third Spidey flick against all better judgment seems an awful lot like Raimi's Spider-Man 3 in which Sony did the same. Also makes me recall Dark Phoenix, in which Simon Kinberg was allowed to repeat his past mistakes as well.
People like Venom and have been waiting a long, long time to have him properly put into a Spider-Man film, that could work just fine if they did it right.
Very curious to see how they work Tom Holland Peter into Venomverse. This is an aspect where spider-verse even when not related kind of helps them, as it sets the idea for multi-verse stuff even on their side (At the end of Venom, the Spider-verse preview even states something along the line of "In another reality).
My guess is they just role with a bootleg version of Pete that's based off the MCU but won't directly be referencing it. I definitely see them keeping the
bit from Far From Home. As that is an easier way to help roll Venom vs Spidey.
I'd bet they're going to film something to throw at the end of Morbius and then Venom 2 to lead into a solo Spider-man film that ultimately ties back into venom.
My guess is they just role with a bootleg version of Pete that's based off the MCU but won't directly be referencing it. I definitely see them keeping the
Spider-man is a criminal
I'd bet they're going to film something to throw at the end of Morbius and then Venom 2 to lead into a solo Spider-man film that ultimately ties back into venom.
How Sway?
The guy who revealed Peters identity is a disgruntled ex Stark employee. Peter is accused of drone striking half of Europe/England with a Stark Satellite. Aunt May runs a charity that helps relocate people displaced by the blip.
It would just be easier to reboot the character than trying to make a direct sequel to FFH.
fitting tom hardy's role in all of this
modern comic movie fans will fall into the darkness, but we were raised in it
Yeah I'm not exactly sure why people are acting like FFH's cliffhanger needs to be resolved immediately. Like even just looking solely at the film roadmap Marvel's not exactly in a rush to progress things narratively, and with Disney+ there's only really WandaVision -> Dr. Strange 2 at the moment.
Avi Arad has been pushing Venom for over a decade, and make no mistake he's gonna fuck Spidey vs. Venom again just like he did last time. There is nothing about Hardy Venom that suggests he has any clue what he's doing.
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I honestly think this is probably one of the reson why the deal broke. Marvel want to use Norman as central MCU villain for a bunch of MCU movies like Loki. But no way Marvel will do this if they don't have safety net so Sony can't just take him away, which is why they ask for a stake in financing etc.
As long as Sony retains the charm of Holland + his best friend played by Jacob Batalon, they'll be fine I think.
That's already established, no reason to mess with that.
Just got to keep it fun and the action on point and they'll be OK.
Amazing Spider-Man was too dry and dull with not enough humor.
That's already established, no reason to mess with that.
Just got to keep it fun and the action on point and they'll be OK.
Amazing Spider-Man was too dry and dull with not enough humor.
You're wrong. This was about getting money in return for doing work. The basic concept of business. Marvel cannot allow characters that are not under their control to appear in their movies, because that would be giving a third party the ability to mold the MCU. They can't just have a character from Sony's universe appear in their own.
Also, please drop this "for the fans" nonsense. It makes you look incredibly foolish. These are both publicly traded companies. All either of them care about is profit. They both have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder value. That's the bottom line for both of them.
At the end of the day, Sony is only in the position they're in with Spider-Man because of Marvel Studios. They allowed Feige to build the character up for free, and now they're trying to capitalize on the work he did and make sequels because Tom Holland Spidey will get butts in seats. All thanks to Disney. Sony was tanking the character on their own before that. They're an incompetent studio that makes bad movies.
I'm pretty sure they'll notice that once the scripts start getting rejected
New villain shows up in town and now Peter Parker has to deal with him/her. Voila.
MCU is just going to have SHIELD put Peter in witness protection or something and call it a day.
Basic concept of business is you don't hand over control of 30-50% of your main IP to anyone.
A good picture is as simple as getting a decent script, they have a foundation in Spider-Man that's easy enough to follow, they can even simply just rehire the same writers.
It's really not, though. Especially when you have morons like Rothman and Arad in charge of things meddling in the creative process.
Comic book movies need to be fun, they need to understand that really these movies are basically a half-COMEDY. Yes, comedy. That's what brings in the casuals. You can sprinkle in all the "nerd shit" after that of comic book mythos, but if you get too serious, it gets too dull for the casuals.
They already have Holland and presumably will be keeping the rest of the cast that they can, so they basically already have those dynamics in place.
Aquaman also worked big time under this concept.
The script honestly is kind of shit, but it's light/fun enough with enough jokes and a charming lead that it doesn't matter.
The script doesn't need to be a Picaso when it comes to comic book movies.
Forcing Hardy Venom into the MCU is not the right way to do it. That's something that should be built up to. Peter's in college now. Older. Experienced at being Spidey. Gets the suit on some alien planet in an Avengers movie. He should wear it for an entire movie or two. He takes the suit to Reed Richards after things get weird. When Venom first appears it should be terrifying because he looks just like spider-man has for the last 100 issues er- two movies except now his mask has a mouth. We just established Peter's Spidey-Sense and how OP it is when he focuses on it in FFH. How perfect then when this new villain doesn't trigger that sense because the symbiote has bonded with Peter before. Just as Tony inadvertently caused his own enemies (and peter's in the case of Vulture and Mysterio), Venom is Peter's creation. A perfect union between two beings that hate both Spider-Man and Peter Parker.
That is infinitely more interesting and the exact type of longform storytelling the MCU allows for and encourages than "hey venom showed up fight him". That's how you get another Batman V Superman
Venom is my favorite Spidey villain and one of the characters that got me into comics in the first place. Sony's Venom is fucking terrible.
How many movies have you walked out of going "well the script was good, but the movie was bad". It doesn't happen very often for a reason.
If this whole thing were half as easy as you're purporting, every studio would just follow the magic formula
It ain't that easy
I'd have the next film center on Peter going to college and the aftermath of the last film maybe, and then introduce/foreshadow Venom towards the end but not bring him in expressly just yet. That would get the audience excited I think.
I think Felicia Hardy/Black Cat would be a pretty cool addition.
I really struggle to see the movies continuing in a logical way if the split continues. I hope Marvel and Sony can reach a compromise. The MCU is so woven into the DNA of the current Spiderman movies that suddenly having to continue without any references or etc. to them would not only be really hard to do, but would feel really strange even if they pulled it off.
Remember how Incredible Hulk picked up where Ang Lee's Hulk left off, with Banner on the run in South America, but it threw away basically everything else about the previous movie?
Not that I want that for Spider-Man, but it's doable.
It's almost like bad producers make good scripts worse. And the quality of a script when initially written is not necessarily directly conducive to how well it winds up on screen.
Shit can change a lot between when a screenwriter hands in their final draft and when consumers actually see the final product.
Except it does seem to work quite often ... it's not even specific to Marvel ... Aquaman is a huge hit, Venom is a huge hit ... largely IMO because Hardy is genuinely quite funny and charming in the role.
Both of those scripts are pretty mediocre, but the general response from "Joe Public" was quite positive.
The comedy/charm/fun is the key. You have that and you're most of the way home. People don't care about deep, resonant story telling in superhero movies. It's probably better actually to steer clear of that.
They screwed-up the last three times now. I guess it's not that simple if they repeated the mistake so many times already.
Even Venom is basically a mess only saved by his actor going full Jim Carrey by chance.
I think there's still another year for a deal to be worked out. And if there isn't one now there'll be one later after the next crop of Sony Spider-Man universe films release and underperform. Spider-Man wasn't going to have his Far From Home MCU sequel for another 2 or 3 years anyway. Y'all should chill.
And even then, only someone with no taste would find Hardy's painfully bad Jersey accent (in San Francisco, for some reason??????) charming. Fucking hell that performance was terrible.
Another basic cconcept of business is don't damage your brand. Which they are doing by cutting Disney out of the picture. Tom Holland Spidey without the MCU is a totally different character. Sony has incompetent, meddling studio execs who will continue to put out shitty movies, damaging their brand.
The only reason they have this opportunity with Holland is because of Feige. They owe everything to Marvel Studios. A lot more than 30% of revenue from future films that Marvek would be doing 100% of the work on.
Short term. It'll be fine... but Holland is in danger of being rebooted out eventually like he never was with the MCU
Yeah, I don't see any of this turning out well for Sony, just because Rothman doesn't have the pedigree on delivering blockbusters that are Box Office success and is commercially viable. Not saying this isn't a logical business decision, but I would keep playing hardball with Disney.
Armchair CEOing aside (with more armchair ceoing), I think stretching Lord and Miller a bit more could work for the next installment, and they've earn good will with Spider-Verse. Rothman can just take credit from the foundation Pascal set. I just recently read the screenplay for Spider-Verse and it sounds like a bunch of nonsense on paper, but damn is their execution not on point. They can take really out there scenarios and make it work.
Yeah, anything can work as long as Sony picks the right people to be behind the project. I think people forget that every film in a culmination of a lot of factors. This can fail and also succeed, but I'm still leaning on these movies going to shit.
They need to start on the script fairly soon-ish here, don't think Sony is going to want like a 3-4 year gap.
The Transformers movies were massively popular and commercially successful for a very long time. Yes, you don't have to make good movies to make money. I would just rather the Spider-Man movies continue to be good and successful and not bad yet successful.
The fact that your defense for sony getting to make the next spidey movie is "your average audience member is dumb and just wants to laugh sometimes" is fucking wild to me. Like I said, I would prefer the movies actually be good the way they have been under Marvel.
Like your last point is basically "why try making good superhero movies"?
It's mostly the script really. You can have the best director on the planet and the best cast on the planet, if it's a crap script, odds are the movie will be crap.
The thing with superhero movies is the bar doesn't really even need to be that high. You're not making The Godfather, as Aquaman proved. Just keep it fun, keep the action high, and make sure there's enough jokes to laugh at a regular clip.
And that's the thing. If we don't see any real progress in terms of finding a director, there's still hope. If they find another director, the dream is for-sure dead.