Every franchise has defenders of the "outlier" entry...except Devil May Cry 2. No one defends that
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No, there was absolutely a narrative around the time where DMC4 was dropping where DMC2 was "Not a bad game, just a bad DMC game" and blah-blah-blah. We have to appreciate DMC2's mechanical contribution to the franchise because it birthed the concept of styles and real time weapon switching blah-blah-blah. It's actually a really good action game for the era, blah-blah-blah.
This discussion basically died when DmC was announced and franchise contrarians had a much more objectively quality game to defend against the rabid DMC Prime fanbase.
It's a perfectly fine expansion pack for the original mario bros. I guess you could argue that it doesn't live up to the extremely high standard that most mario games set.
Sure, I would. Its one of, if not my favourite Mario game. Aside from a couple of cheap (cheap) moments with projectiles coming at you with almost no time to evade them, I like the challenging difficulty level on it. Definitely prefer it to the "New" Super Mario Bros games which just throw away the concept of difficulty, even the hardest levels in those games are basically push overs compared to most of what SMB2 has to offer, and its the reason I vastly prefer replaying SMB2 over the NSMB games.
Hitman: Absolution and Splinter Cell: Conviction. I've seen these games get defended on a few occasions, but I wouldn't say I've seen an impassioned defense that either is the stealth (heh) best game of their respective series.
This is a good pick. It's not a bad video game either, but it being the weakest mainline Deus Ex game has never really felt in dispute.
I can defend DMC 2. It's awful, but it's got wall running, a dedicated dodge button, double jumping right from the start (I think?), shooting upside down because why not and a mission select when you beat the game.
Those are improved from DMC 1 and set the stage for DMC 3 (rip dodge button but at least we got Trickster, I prefer DmC's take on it).
Its existance was necessary. Also it's got "so bad it's good" moments like fighting INFECTED TANKS AND CHOPPERS. Or making enemies fly by simply shooting infinitely.
But you can't save the ugly graphics and color palette, mandatory enemy lock-on, Dante screaming Hyuh Hyuh SHEEH HAAA for E.V.E.R.Y. melee combo, comically awful dialogue and uhhh I could go on and on.
Those are improved from DMC 1 and set the stage for DMC 3 (rip dodge button but at least we got Trickster, I prefer DmC's take on it).
Its existance was necessary. Also it's got "so bad it's good" moments like fighting INFECTED TANKS AND CHOPPERS. Or making enemies fly by simply shooting infinitely.
But you can't save the ugly graphics and color palette, mandatory enemy lock-on, Dante screaming Hyuh Hyuh SHEEH HAAA for E.V.E.R.Y. melee combo, comically awful dialogue and uhhh I could go on and on.
If you forget the story it's like way better then the first game, by a miles.
I don't want to derail, but that is the only SaGa game I ever played and, as you said, I hated it.
Are you telling me that I played the least representative game of the franchise and damned the rest for that first impression alone? If so...I might have to repent.
Yes, you did. I never even played it because of its absolutely terrible word of mouth. I'm not the biggest SaGa fan, either - I only ever really enjoyed the Frontier games. Try out SaGa Frontier or SaGa Frontier II for an idea of the series at its peak.
Zelda 2 has influenced several games. It is a GOOD game. Of course it has defenders.
I'm one of the weirdos that will defend Zelda 2. I enjoyed playing it as a kid! It's got some stunningly obtuse shit in it though (lots of "find a specific tile on the overworld in order to progress" that the game's dodgy translation vaguely references), but then a lot of NES games from that era do, as does the OG Zelda. If you don't think of it as a "proper" Zelda game it has it's charms. I actually think Zelda 2 and Breath of the Wild have that one thing in common, before anyone jumps down my throat for saying something so controversial yet so brave i think Breath of the Wild is an enjoyable and technically/mechanically outstanding game, I just didn't enjoy it as a Zelda game.
On topic? I think that most rational people will agree that SMB2: The Lost Levels is a miserable experience in deliberate pain and frustration and the version of SMB2 we got in Europe/USA is so much better it's not even funny. Plus all the best enemies/characters from the Mario franchise come from that game. Yeah, i said it. Birdo for Smash when?
I mean, at it's core it does have the building blocks of a DMC game. With nothing to compare it to i can see people finding enjoyment in it. But compared to the other games... Woof.
I played DMC1, 3 and 4 before i decided to give 2 a whirl out of curiosity/boredom as i had the compilation on 360 so it's not like i paid for it on it's own. I honestly went into it with as open a mind as i could, expecting very little and even with my expectations as low as they were it still shocked me with just how fucking terrible it is in comparison to DMC1. I can't think of any other direct sequel that so thoroughly shat the bed in almost every way, it's almost impressive in a horrifying kind of a way.
I can't quite decide if Capcom having the nerve to charge Switch owners 20 dollars for it on Switch is genius or pure Machiavellian evil.
On topic? I think that most rational people will agree that SMB2: The Lost Levels is a miserable experience in deliberate pain and frustration and the version of SMB2 we got in Europe/USA is so much better it's not even funny. Plus all the best enemies/characters from the Mario franchise come from that game. Yeah, i said it. Birdo for Smash when?
I mean, at it's core it does have the building blocks of a DMC game. With nothing to compare it to i can see people finding enjoyment in it. But compared to the other games... Woof.
I played DMC1, 3 and 4 before i decided to give 2 a whirl out of curiosity/boredom as i had the compilation on 360 so it's not like i paid for it on it's own. I honestly went into it with as open a mind as i could, expecting very little and even with my expectations as low as they were it still shocked me with just how fucking terrible it is in comparison to DMC1. I can't think of any other direct sequel that so thoroughly shat the bed in almost every way, it's almost impressive in a horrifying kind of a way.
I can't quite decide if Capcom having the nerve to charge Switch owners 20 dollars for it on Switch is genius or pure Machiavellian evil.
I hope someday after Bayonetta 3 is released we can all look back and agree that 2 was just a little bit shit.
Right now though, the consensus seems to be that everyone loves it, it's way better than the original in every way, and if you disagree you're some elitist snob.
Right now though, the consensus seems to be that everyone loves it, it's way better than the original in every way, and if you disagree you're some elitist snob.
Suikoden 4's worst sin is the 4 member party. The sailing the ship and the plot are tolerable. Plus you get to recruit Ted!
Yeah I think Drakengard 2 is one of those games that aren't any worse than the one that came before it but because Yoko Taro wasn't as directly involved most people don't care enough to give it a chance. Not that either PS2 Drakengard game is... "good".
(Another example of this phenomenon is Dark Souls 2. While that one is different in a lot of ways from DS1 so it's understandable some wouldn't like it as much, most of the talk around it was exaggerated because it wasn't by Miyazaki)
I haven't seen anyone defending Ninja Gaiden 3 (PS3/Xbox 360), and yes I'm aware there's razor's Edge, but the positive of that one is that is not as bad as vanilla NG3, both don't come even close to NG1 and 2.
Also, I think everyone agrees that DMC2 Dante's design is great.
Also, I think everyone agrees that DMC2 Dante's design is great.
I have seen 1 or 2 people sticking up for vanilla 3 since it was their first NG, but replace that with Yaiba Ninja Gaiden Z and you have a winner. No one defends Yaiba for good reason, and it pretty much killed the series for now.
To be fair, DMC2 did give us some really cool things. Bloody Palace being the big one. Dantes outfit and design was pretty cool. It also established Rebellion. Desperation DT was also super neat.
The game itself blew ass chunks tho. But the point is even the worse games can give us good things and good building blocks for the future.
Edit: Another good positive about DMC2 is that Dante wasn't voiced by Reuben Langdon. So that's good. Didn't use to be, but Reuben is a piece of garbage now and his Dante is trash tier till he is recast.
The game itself blew ass chunks tho. But the point is even the worse games can give us good things and good building blocks for the future.
Edit: Another good positive about DMC2 is that Dante wasn't voiced by Reuben Langdon. So that's good. Didn't use to be, but Reuben is a piece of garbage now and his Dante is trash tier till he is recast.
DMC2 wasn't good but I still don't think it was THAT bad xD
also I will definitely defend Deus Ex IW
also I will definitely defend Deus Ex IW
Unlimited SaGa is legit the worst way to experience the series. Definitely give SaGa Frontier 1 and 2 a shot (especially 1. It's so quirky I love it)
I like many of the games mentioned in this thread including DMC2, it's just that I find talking about widely disliked games I like unenjoyable.
Bubsy 3D.
Never seen anyone seriously defending that and I'm the guy that actually kinda likes the 2D Bubsy games.
Never seen anyone seriously defending that and I'm the guy that actually kinda likes the 2D Bubsy games.
"Quirky" as a descriptor has me sold. Getting excitebike about it now.
I feel this way about Skyward Sword. I unapologetically love it, but avoid discussions to keep a social distance from the vitriol.
Unless, I royalguard enough times...
OP, you forgot the OGs, Mario Bros. 2 and Zelda 2.
Both were huge departures from their predecessors that were never returned to, and both games went back to their original forms with their next installments (Mario 3, LTTP)
Both were huge departures from their predecessors that were never returned to, and both games went back to their original forms with their next installments (Mario 3, LTTP)
You could probably amputate both hands and still have too many fingers to count the fans of that game.
they may be "outliers" but they're more or less very well liked games.
God of War Ascension? Not a bad game by any means, but I don't ever see anyone even mention it.
I've seen people defend Judgement before. There have definitely been a few threads about it.
hmm he suddenly stopped posting in June.
hope he's okay.
I've seen people defend Judgement before. There have definitely been a few threads about it.
hmm he suddenly stopped posting in June.
hope he's okay.
*Quietly raises hand, low enough for no one to notice*
Only the gameplay, the story and Samus' personality I wasn't too fond of
