That's is NOT forced assimilation. Forced assimilation by definition is LITERALLY forcing people to adopt a language.
Learn != adopt
That's is NOT forced assimilation. Forced assimilation by definition is LITERALLY forcing people to adopt a language.
While i think "must" is going too far, there definitely should be incentives offered for learning the country language and easy accessible learning.
My parents were immigrants and the lack of English understanding severely hampered and in a few cases negatively affected them.
I think helping immigrants to learn the local language is a good thing but that really isn't what this law is about. You just can't ignore who it's going to be used against and there's going to be a huge bias on that group.I think a language-learning requirement is a good thing that will immensely boost integration efforts, but I agree that there is a clear agenda underlying this declaration. The existing bias will be a strong problem in how these rules are being enforced and on whom.
Depends on how you want to look at it. This is the requirements to get a citizenship, as soon as you have that you can do whatever the fuck you want - you're a citizen.
If you can pass Test 3 in Danish you will be able to have a basic, but solid grasp in most conversations. Many won't use that at all afterwards, but to say they don't speak it at all would be untrue. At least they're not getting a citzenship then.
I think that most people coming to Europe is already coming wanting to have a good life and sharing the same values (these ones), and language isn't really something that needs to be enforced. I am just worried for kids that don't get enough public school, something that is an issue even with locals (high school dropouts are at an alarming record high). I don't want Europe to have anything to do with religious education or encryption. I wish we could get more funds for the efforts from the ONGs and our cities to deal with the issues that affect them - not security but more education for all ages.I'm not expecting them to do anything to any grandmas or grandpas...
I'm strictly speaking on the idea of the more extreme sides of what is being proposed like religious education and the encryption stuff. It doesn't matter that it won't go anywhere, it's just the idea that it is being brought up at all. There is a clear bias coming through.
If it were strictly language education, that'd be cool and reasonable. I already imagined that this would undergo a lot of revision if it was favored.
I swear my mind is going to break reading some of these takes.
I don't get the outrage for this. what possible disadvantage do people have when they understand the language of the country they live in? more language skills always mean more opportunities. communication is the fundamental basis of every society. this policy is long overdue.
Exhibit A of these policies but people wanna just hand wave it.As a migrant in Germany I'm doing the effort to learn the language because I can and have the means to do so. But it's my privilege. I know several people with no condition to pay a course and that would have to wait years to get a chance to be "sponsored" by the government to do it. I had the unpleasantness to see face to face how bad the social service is here and if you are currently jobless or between job they can treat you like shit and bury you in mountains of paperwork.
This is all really disheartening and if anything makes me feel even less welcome than before. Welp guess I should go back to where I came from right?
Exhibit A of these policies but people wanna just hand wave it.
Come to think of it, every immigrant I've met here, be them Australian, German, Turkish, Pakistani, Indian, Russian, Kenyan, etc, etc, have known the local language. It's also weird how some people can have lived here for decades and still be unable to catch sarcasm and such, while others who's only here for a few months speaks the language better than me.100% agree with needing to learn the countries language. If I was to ever move countries, I'd move to a Nordic country, but I would never move there without first learning their language to a level where I could at least hold a conversation. Not learning the language of the country seems so disrespectful.
Yup. Clear as dayIt's so telling to me that people are way more concerned with the idea that they may have people within their country who don't speak their language, than with the anti-immigrant sentiment and actions of their countrymen and countrywomen that declarations like this empower.
The fact that people, even in this thread, see immigrants who don't speak the same language as them, as being "disrespectful" is disgusting to me honestly but cuts right to the heart of what this is about. The sense that "you are in MY country so how dare you possess a characteristic which could inconvenience me in some way".
It's so telling to me that people are way more concerned with the idea that they may have people within their country who don't speak their language, than with the anti-immigrant sentiment and actions of their countrymen and countrywomen that declarations like this empower.
The fact that people, even in this thread, see immigrants who don't speak the same language as them, as being "disrespectful" is disgusting to me honestly but cuts right to the heart of what this is about. The sense that "you are in MY country so how dare you possess a characteristic which could inconvenience me in some way".
I think helping immigrants to learn the local language is a good thing but that really isn't what this law is about. You just can't ignore who it's going to be used against and there's going to be a huge bias on that group.
The fact that people, even in this thread, see immigrants who don't speak the same language as them, as being "disrespectful" is disgusting to me honestly but cuts right to the heart of what this is about. The sense that "you are in MY country so how dare you possess a characteristic which could inconvenience me in some way".
It does not need to be a requirement for anyone. Especially when many countries do not have a national language.
It should not be a requirement.
"Immigrants should speak our language!"
"No one forces them to come to this country!"
Resetera sound more and more right wing every day.
Learning a language should not be required.As a immigrant myself, yes it should be.
There is many people whom i know living for 20+ years in the country and still need a translator for basic doctor visits.
Source: I have been working as a translator on and off for quick money
People are nationalists and don't even know it. It's wild to me. But we're wrong to say requiring it is bad.I surmise that EUEra is used to having national languages and expecting everyone entering their countries to speak them. I personally find such a requirement to be nationalistic and honestly, heartless. Increasing accessibility to language education is one thing, talking about forcing migrants to adopt a language is another. It implies that it's not okay to exist there without learning the language, which as many of us know in the USA, is pretty problematic for several reasons. One being that it is very hard to learn a language fluently, and it could take years. Nationalistic language elitism breeds treating migrants like second class citizens for their accents or languages. I mean my father was Danish and I can't even fucking use the Danish immigration website because a lot of their important policies and content are exclusively in Danish just to be fucking inaccessible on purpose to outsiders (I never learned Danish). Meanwhile here in Washington, USA, many public services and hospitals state that community members have a right to interpreter and language services in their native language if need be.
I'm all for it being a positive thing, making it into dangling a persons worth in being in a country is fucking abhorrent.Maybe instead of forcing especially refugees, the government could make a kind of job out of it , where they get payed some bonus for taking classes in their respective languages and completing them nets them a good amount of money. Raising the incentive without forcing people.
Its not doubt it will be abused. Anything that comes down in a non-welcoming way will always be abused and give reasons to deport people, who are otherwise are peacefulI totally agree with you. I think that given the timing and the circumstances, this is meant to exercise control on some groups more so than outright helping the integration process. However, I do think it will do that as well. Ultimately, it all comes down to the finer details to me in order to see if this can be abused against minorities (who else) once put into action. Unfortunately, it is likely that is the case.
I don't go in the USA and expect to only talk italian, never learn english and live my life without being bothered
So someone from UK moving to Norway will be expected to learn Norweigan if they decide to settle and raise their kids there?
I honestly believe that most actually want them to have the best possible outcome in their countries and to have a good life.
Eh, I haven't seen anyone trying to argue that immigrants not speaking the same language is disrespectful, but that it would be beneficial for the immigrants themselves if they learned at least a basic grasp of the language.
I really don't see how the language requirement is any different than the people who say "we speak American here."
How do elections work in most EU countries for language? Here in the States, I had the option to request my ballot in a huge variety of languages. I've known people back down south who didn't speak hardly a word of English, just Spanish.
If you did want to come here and only speak Italian, you could though. The English interview for US citizenship is pretty basic stuff (you have to respond to questions about your paperwork, read one sentence out of three, and write down one of three sentences). And of course it's only administered once; if you pass it, you can feel free to never speak English here again. The US has no national language and even most Republicans don't go near that.
Americans do it all the time. Again shit like this is targets against one group of people.This is a weird position to take. Why would someone want to live in another country if they don't want to integrate it's society? Are you suggesting that if immigrants want to create a mini-version of their country within the country they migrated to, the governement should do nothing, because it infringe on their freedom?
Then why is there no energy put into trying to understand these immigrant's experience? Trying to look at things from their eyes? Why is so much of this thread people going "I would never move to another country without learning the language, I can't believe this"? Why are people not engaging with the prospect of discrimination that this could cause? I don't understand how people can profess to have others best interests at heart, but not even try a little to engage in that way.
There is some unease among fellow EU governments about the framing of the current draft, however. Sweden, Luxembourg and the Netherlands, among others, have traditionally pushed back against those who have viewed migration and religion through the prism of security.
"Singling out a religion or group is never the answer to violent extremism by individuals," said one senior EU diplomat. "We should do well to remember that embracing fundamental values isn't just a responsibility of migrants or the Muslim community but for all us. We should be careful not to bring down our accomplishments by other people's sins."
I live in Catalonia, a region of Spain with a local language, on average here the people who speak Catalan have higher wages compared to the Spaniards that don't. Language issues are not unique to immigrants.Poverty is not a function of their command Of language. If they are actually not treated as a undocumented person and assigned some kind of status they can easily be able to move into different levels of society. Low wages are due to people not having status in a country not because of anything else but that.
I have a suspicion this will only effect migrants with a bit of melanin.
In Sweden we have Finnish speaking pree school.
A few kids didn't speak Swedish once they started regular school.
Does this mean that they must learn it too?
Democracy does not need a common language in order to function. It is not like we use direct democracy and decide evrything by going to a big public square to agree on things in person. There is plenty of room to just use good old-fashioned translation in modern democracy.Learning the common language in a democracy is a complete necessity. How can anyone partake in any democratic process if they cannot properly communicate? Like, that just encourages a .breakdown of fundamental rights.
Now, in order for this to happen, there needs to be free education to learn said language though, to ensure equal access.
It's quite a tough thing to parse out. But I genuinely believe that language is such a huge barrier, that really can cause isolation within immigrants. Especially in important things such as education, public service, and political involvement.
Now should it required? That is a tough one. I really believe that a healthy democracy needs this. So many misunderstandings, and fear can be bred simply due to a language barrier, and it stops many forms of activism. On the other hand, I think people shouldn't be forced to. It's certainly a tough situation. Speaking the same language does clear the playing field though, so no doubts about that.
Overall I think a middle ground should be formed, but I am not sure where to draw that line.
Of course they do. " From 1 September 2008 an applicant for Norwegian citizenship must also give evidence of proficiency in either the Norwegian or the Sami language, or give proof of having attended classes in Norwegian for 300 hours, or meet the language requirements for university studies in Norway (i.e., demonstrate proficiency in one of the Scandinavian languages). From 1 March 2014 an applicant for Norwegian citizenship must also pass an exam about Norwegian society, laws and history. "So someone from UK moving to Norway will be expected to learn Norwegian if they decide to settle and raise their kids there? Im fine with being encouraged, but if its a hard rule then it needs a bit more thought.
There is many people whom i know living for 20+ years in the country and still need a translator for basic doctor visits.
So someone from UK moving to Norway will be expected to learn Norwegian if they decide to settle and raise their kids there?
So someone from UK moving to Norway will be expected to learn Norweigan if they decide to settle and raise their kids there?
Official government communication is in official national language. In countries with multiple languages, you might not even be able to get the documentation in all official languages depending on the place you live. I live in a country where politicians have been 'disqualified' for mayoral elections because they broke that latter rule on purpose.How do elections work in most EU countries for language? Here in the States, I had the option to request my ballot in a huge variety of languages. I've known people back down south who didn't speak hardly a word of English, just Spanish.
I mean neither country is (soon at least) in the EU lol so EU rules won't apply anyway.So someone from UK moving to Norway will be expected to learn Norwegian if they decide to settle and raise their kids there? Im fine with being encouraged, but if its a hard rule then it needs a bit more thought.
There is a reason why far right Americans stay looking at those countries laws when it comes to immigration.I mean neither country is (soon at least) in the EU lol so EU rules won't apply anyway.