I've only really noticed an anti-Chinese government bias, not necessarily anti-asian. But then I don't read even close to 1% of the threads on here.
I've only really noticed an anti-Chinese government bias, not necessarily anti-asian. But then I don't read even close to 1% of the threads on here.
Some how I had the feeling that it's an Asian person before watching the video. Sigh.
Chinese tourists don't give a fuck about nuthin'. Rules? that's for chumps.
This post is literally everything I said was wrong with Era in regards to how it reacts to when Asians or the diaspora attempt to redress their issues with Era.
I'm going to lunch and circle back to this.
Yeah, I think defending the CCP's actions is abhorrent and should be called out. That's a far different thing from asking people to understand what the HK protests actually want or ask that they cool it with the deportation talk.I'm not sure about who qualifies as being part of Asian Era, maybe they never posted in that community thread? But most definitely, there is at least one forumer who says they are of Asian descent who frames the ethnic-cleansing of Uighurs as a necessary rite of nation-building that other developed nations should stay out of, since those outsider nations were once perpetrators of their own atrocities. For them, genocide is an acceptable cost for PRC global dominance. They are rooting for the PRC to take over. Although, of course, they don't use the word "genocide." And because I criticized China's attempted annihilation of the Uighurs, he tried to frame me as a race traitor or as a collaborator.
I don't think this person is a native-born Chinese. I think he lives abroad. I can sense they faced or witnessed a lot of active racism living in the Western world because of their ethnicity, and I understand that pain. And I can relate to the pain of hearing your ancestral homeland criticized, and the instinct to push back against it automatically.
At the same time, I bristle at Asian American solidarity being used as a cudgel against other Asian Americans to ignore or be silent about the atrocities committed by China. That's not cool. That's some shady shit trying to make the entire Asian diaspora complicit in covering up China's on-going crimes against humanity. After all, China's aggression and harm is directed most severely at its own citizens and other Asians. I'm American, and I trash the U.S.A. and its policies all night all day. That doesn't make me unpatriotic or a traitor to the U.S.A.
This is one complex, tricky topic.
Well, yeah, there was a trash sub-community on the other site. It may still happen here, I just haven't seen it other than Chinese government dislike. Which, considering their human rights violations, could be viewed as justified. I think most times when people comment on something about China here they're specifically referencing the governing leadership, not necessarily the Chinese people. Same with North Korea. I rarely see anything really negative about West or South Asian governments or peoples.I think it was far worse on Gaf.
For example there was a thread about some guy who destroyed a clock and the first page replies were "lol I thought it was a Chinese" or "Oh. No Chinese there! So surprised" or some youtuber trashed some cultural heritage site and people were asking if the youtuber was asian...
Thanks a lot! I would love to read about it.
To what does this relate too? To be honest outside of Japan, Korea, and now recently China asian countries don't get many mentions on this forum.
The only time such issues come up is during discussions about cultural appropriation. So while it's a great topic to spread awareness, I don't know what non-asians are supposed to add to it without any examples.
Yeah, I think defending the CCP's actions is abhorrent and should be called out. That's a far different thing from asking people to understand what the HK protests actually want or ask that they cool it with the deportation talk.
I don't think your post came off as you wanting to speak for Chinese, and I agree differing viewpoints can be refreshing to know. But I also feel that if it's relevant to the discussion then it would be so based on its own merits rather than needing to attach a disclaimer about how you've immersed yourself in the culture to provide a speaking point.I dont really speak as an enabler about asian issues or asian american issues. I try to talk about my experience and opinion.
I personally think a mainland Chinese e.g. has totally different experiences than a Chinese immigrant in Germany who has different experiences than an immigrant with maybe estranged parents than me, white af just having lived in China.
There might e.g. be vietnamese-germans who are still totally into Vietnam while I also know Germans with a vietnamese background, who dont want anything to do with it and in those examples a non-asian person who lived there for several years, can speak the language and indulges into the culture has a totally different view.
If my post came off as someone who wants to speak for Chinese, I apologize.
So, this really doesn't have anything to do with China per se. It's a pattern of behavior that has gone on, on Era, as a carry over from the GAF days.
The goings on in HK simply serve as the most recent thread topic as to where this occurs.
A lot of the problem is people being dismissive to Asians (especially diaspora Asians) and the things we say about this topic. Which you are doing, right now. You probably had no bad intentions with your post, and made it in good faith. But you're doing it all the same.I've only really noticed an anti-Chinese government bias, not necessarily anti-asian. But then I don't read even close to 1% of the threads on here.
Well to be honest, and this is not only for all things Asian-relatedWhat would be the best thing, in your opinion, for non-Asians to do to create a healthier discourse going forward?
Great topic. Though I (generally) disagree with one point:
I would argue that it is refreshing if people get to know other viewpoints. Disclaimer about myself: German born (3rd generation polish immigrant with no ties to Poland/previous Prussia), married a Chinese, speaking fluent Chinese, worked there for several years. And I wont speak for any asian, but rather in General about this, but I know immigrants here in Germany who have a different experience growing up here or just by being here for a few years and I personally think it is nice to see those other viewpoints.
That is why I also think that people who are not natives of another country can give their viewpoint to natives and have a discussion, especially if, inside that country, there is one "general societal view" that most accept (even if it might be harmful).
Judging by your OP it seems you are more talking about the "anti asian bias" as a member of the Asian american community, but I would argue to an asian american the anti asian bias is different (or at least experienced differently) than to a Chinese, Thai, Korean, Indian etc.
That's fair. I was a lurker during the GAF days so I can't speak to that, I was only speaking to what I feel is a rising sentiment of yellow peril in wake of the Hong Kong news. Anti-Asian racism definitely exists outside of that context though, you're right.
What would be the best thing, in your opinion, for non-Asians to do to create a healthier discourse going forward?
Thanks for making this topic. The associated Hong Kong threads as well as the linked Abomimable thread(s) have been pretty embarrassing to read to be honest. That's not to say that some of what is being said in those threads isn't appropriate, justified anger towards the CCP. The fact that I have to insert that sentence at all, however shows how dire the dialogue around here can be though.
If I were to give suggestions I would probably make the following. Some of these are kind of vague and perhaps a bit too elementary, but TBH some members might need these reminders for discourse in general.
1) A very basic rule of thumb is to think about the context of the thread and imagine if your "Fuck the CCP / Free HK" is actually appropriate given the discussion topic. A thread about Blizzard cow-towing -- probably yes. A thread about a random poster's fears that those of Chinese ancestry are getting sucked into a racist vortex? Not so much.
2) No post is made better by the inclusion of the phrase "my Asian wife/husband/boyfriend/studies...ect" If your post relies on this kind of appeal to authority you should find a way to restructure your post so that it doesn't include it. Because this happens so often I think it bears repeating. No post is made better by using your Asian friend as a prop.
3) Nobody should have to apologize (pre-emptively or not) over their ancestry. Just because some people might be of a certain descent doesn't mean that they should have to stand in for the government or certain other individuals of said location.
4) Since this is an American centric board it is worth repeating that AA's are about ~6 percent of the population. Now, I'm not saying that ERA is exactly American, but it is worth noting that there are probably fewer people around with Asian heritage than you might think. So, expecting there to be an "Asian brigade" to air grievances in every thread is unrealistic. Just because it doesn't get a response doesn't mean it isn't still a shitty thing to say.
Just take a step back and let the Asians talk about it to each other. Did you notice that even in this thread, a lot of the Asians here have spent more time justifying every word we say to disbelieving audiences rather than talking to each other about these issues?
As an outsider, dropping "lol social points" as a comeback to an opinion you don't agree with seems particularly unhelpful and something that we could stop.
For one I am Chinese and I made reference to the fact that historically this kind of rhetoric led to massacres of Chinese people, you can do better than completely taking my words of out context (I mean, I guess you can't if you're deliberately trying not to?)Sure, call out biases. I do when I see them. There was someone claiming to be from Australia who said they were regularly harrassed and mistaken for Chinese and then connected that claim with one irrational online comment and jumped to Canada has secret pogroms for all Asians.
Let's look at the exact quotes in question and the subject of the thread for context.For one I am Chinese and I made reference to the fact that historically this kind of rhetoric led to massacres of Chinese people, you can do better than completely taking my words of out context (I mean, I guess you can't if you're deliberately trying not to?)
It's kind of incredibly offensive that you read my comments this way in an attempt to discredit the very real racism I see online and in real life.
So how do you prevent a yellow scare from happening in a small country like Canada where China has a huge amount of financial pull with our universities and politicians, floods the country with Fentanyl and keeps bullying us on the world stage?
I'm fucking scared of China. And we all know what fear leads to.
That wasn't rhetoric. That's you saying there will be people killed in mass pogroms in Canada based off that post. They weren't specified as secret programs, so there is that. Although by nature they would have to be because the country would storm it and free those people.Well at least you're honest about how Chinese people are going to be killed on the basis of their ethnicity in mass pogroms, thats a step better than most of the people in this thread.
I don't know, OP.
In the context of recentevents, I have to give threads like these the side-eye, because I'm seeing CCP stans using "sinophobia" as a cudgel far more than I'm seeing anti-CCP views veer into racism, and the similar thread from yesterday or the day before was using hyperbole and out of context quotes to bash people justifiably angered by China's atrocities. Uighurs, Taiwanese, Tibetans, and Hong Kongers are all Asians.
(I'm of Asian descent, as is my partner, FWIW.)
And ffs people, please realize that letting hate for a whole country consume your heart will lead to hatred and mistrust for its people, when your hatred should be directed at their government.
I really haven't been seeing a sentiment for hatred of the people rather than the CCP itself in the various threads about China. Do you really think this is a problem that is frequently coming up?
It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people.
Unless I'm misunderstanding. Couldn't that basically be traced back to colorism? Which is well, still a huge problem.This is perhaps as good a place as any, but I see one of the large issues for the Asian diaspora being how they are selectively used as allies of colonialism/whiteness when it's convenient for white people to do so, despite many in the diaspora not wanting that association, which leads to some distrust from other visible minorities that Asian-descendant people can/should be considered allies to their causes. I have seen it a few times and it really upsets me and blows my mind. But I'd like someone more knowledgeable to speak to this phenomenon I have witnessed, to not take anecdotal first-hand accounts as some sort of gospel of how to think on the subject.
Yeah, it does, quite a bit in fact. And, just for the record, you are what I consider an enabler of that problem, since this is the second time I've noticed you come into a thread like this and specifically ask the same question, which has been answered more than once.
I'm not 100% sure if the example I'm bringing up is exactly what you're talking about, but I do see and recieve the "second-hand white" treatment when it comes to online environments where other minorities exclude us for not being "minority enough", yet we still receive racism from racists.This is perhaps as good a place as any, but I see one of the large issues for the Asian diaspora being how they are selectively used as allies of colonialism/whiteness when it's convenient for white people to do so, despite many in the diaspora not wanting that association, which leads to some distrust from other visible minorities that Asian-descendant people can/should be considered allies to their causes. I have seen it a few times and it really upsets me and blows my mind. But I'd like someone more knowledgeable to speak to this phenomenon I have witnessed, to not take anecdotal first-hand accounts as some sort of gospel of how to think on the subject.
Answered where? With what examples? You can't just throw something out there and expect people to accept your opinion as fact.
We just occupy a weird spot at least in North America. Bit of invisible and all too visible. Also a controversial opinion, but a cultural obliteration where it's homogenized to non-descript identity.I'm not 100% sure if the example I'm bringing up is exactly what you're talking about, but I do see and recieve the "second-hand white" treatment when it comes to online environments where other minorities exclude us for not being "minority enough", yet we still receive racism from racists.
Unless I'm misunderstanding. Couldn't that basically be traced back to colorism? Which is well, still a huge problem.
In that Canadian thread there was an example on the first page that you completely ignored because it didn't fit your narrative. I don't need to be responsible for quoting posts for you when it's plain as day. Please stop acting like you're just "bringing up a question," because it doesn't make sense when the facts are looking straight in the eye.
So the facts are plain as day, but you can't point to a single one?
What Canadian thread are you referring to? I just searched through my "Watched" threads (I automatically Watch threads that I post in) back to June and can't find a single thread with "Canad" in the title except for one about Chick-Fil-A.
Also, what the hell narrative are you even talking about? What kind of narrative do you think I subscribe to?
This is perhaps as good a place as any, but I see one of the large issues for the Asian diaspora being how they are selectively used as allies of colonialism/whiteness when it's convenient for white people to do so, despite many in the diaspora not wanting that association, which leads to some distrust from other visible minorities that Asian-descendant people can/should be considered allies to their causes. I have seen it a few times and it really upsets me and blows my mind. But I'd like someone more knowledgeable to speak to this phenomenon I have witnessed, to not take anecdotal first-hand accounts as some sort of gospel of how to think on the subject.
Go read page 1 of that thread, and then your reply later on.
The narrative that you ascribe to is that nobody is focusing on individuals, and instead all going after the CCP. This is false, as demonstrated by that thread.
This is ultimately another facet of the same "treating all Asians as a monolith" problem. There is a huge difference between the average wealth and education of the largely richer and more educated Chinese- or Korean-American populations compared to those of Hmong or VIetnamese descent, and lumping even all East Asians together does erase that. Even lumping all people from the same country together hides some strong patterns you can see from different waves of immigration. The limited amount of media representation definitely helps reinforce this narrow stereotype as well.Also, I wanted to mention there's this model minority thing re: Asian Americans. That's not the reality for most Asian Americans. A lot of Asian Americans live in outright poverty. They're hidden and invisible, because the Asian "doctor" "lawyer" public perception tends to dominate. For instance, almost 30% of Asian Americans in New York City live below the poverty line. But only a tiny amount of federal funding for social services reaches Asian American community organizations in NYC. Something like less than 2%. So there are a lot of Asian Americans who live in deprivation. With stats like that, I'd be reluctant to call us allies for the oppressive status quo.