It's some gamergatesque bullshit that I'm glad the moderation has started dealing with here.
funny how it's august as well that this happened
but yes, it was always this bad
It's some gamergatesque bullshit that I'm glad the moderation has started dealing with here.
No, the first thing I did was post this on Page 1:And despite all that the first thing you did was talking about anime avatars...
Well maybe on Era we can have a week of nice constructive discussion. Most of the most toxic members were banned. It'll be interesting (and maybe nice) how EGS threads play out this week.I do feel bad for all the folks who have legitimate talking points about the store and what EGS means for PC gaming, and have tried to communicate them in rational ways, but at the same time many of those same people are deflecting or trying to minimize what has been going on, or blame trolls for making things worse, feeling persecuted, etc. There's more constructive ways to go about the discussion without allowing bad actors and bad behavior to take over, which is exactly what has happened over the last several months.
I dared suggest it was not the end of the world for games to become store-exclusive and was accused of selling out my ethics for an Epic paycheck.I wan to be that optimist too, but let's be real, in the thread opened by BronsonLee there were people literally defending the death threats to users and developers and, unless i missed something (I'll be glad to be told that i'm wrong), nothing was done. Whenever a EGS thread got too violent, a staff post was written and that's it. For too much time the EGS toxicity has been allowed to nurture in this, out of all communities. If you were contrary to that or used arguments akin of "It's just another store" you were treated as an ignorant and corporate bootlicker at best.
In a way, yes. But the industry grow on sports team spirit. That's why we have PC vs Console and Console VS Console "wars".but gaming should be something that unites us in an entertainment business, not attack each other at every possible moment
Thanks for that!
I just want to play games and not have to worry about them being on the EGS. This harrassment fucking sucks.
Edit: Reinhardt Schneider you don't fight toxicity by being toxic yourself.
I dared suggest it was not the end of the world for games to become store-exclusive and was accused of selling out my ethics for an Epic paycheck.
Harrassment and threats are never acceptable, period.
We can do better because I strongly believe that decent people heavily outnumber assholes.
You constantly conflate your own perspective of it being just another launcher with the general reality for all people. I told you I had to buy a specific expensive Win10 license and you suggested I should get a black market key. And again lament in this thread about toxicity that it's just another launcher when that is proven to be false.
I saw this happening when alt right grifters like The Quartering started weighing in on EGS. To them this is just another recruitment tool, which is disappointing as someone who really dislikes EGS and wouldn't even dream of partaking in any of the toxic harassment regardless of how I feel about the events leading up to it.I do feel bad for all the folks who have legitimate talking points about the store and what EGS means for PC gaming, and have tried to communicate them in rational ways, but at the same time many of those same people are deflecting or trying to minimize what has been going on, or blame trolls for making things worse, feeling persecuted, etc. There's more constructive ways to go about the discussion without allowing bad actors and bad behavior to take over, which is exactly what has happened over the last several months.
Having an opinion isn't being toxic. Being against toxicity isn't toxic. Specifically attacking fellow users is toxic, and that's ironically what you're doing (albeit mildly).You constantly conflate your own perspective of it being just another launcher with the general reality for all people. I told you I had to buy a specific expensive Win10 license and you suggested I should get a black market key. And again lament in this thread about toxicity that it's just another launcher when that is proven to be false.
Please tell me how am i being toxic, please.
I was asked why was i being a corporate bootlicker.
You constantly conflate your own perspective of it being just another launcher with the general reality for all people. I told you I had to buy a specific expensive Win10 license and you suggested I should get a black market key. And again lament in this thread about toxicity that it's just another launcher when that is proven to be false.
Your depiction of the discussions going on here is innaccurate though.
If you were contrary to that or used arguments akin of "It's just another store" you were treated as an ignorant and corporate bootlicker at best.
But the fact is that it's just another free software you just have to download, period, and even if it isn't, it doesn't justify all the shit that's going on. If your issue with all this shit is that there's people saying that it is another free launcher, thani have bad news for you.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I haven't seen exactly a healthy discussion about the subject over here, and it bothers me that it took Epic's statement to see it heavily moderated.
But what obthers me the most, is that despite that this is the place where the discussion was the healthiest.
But that *is* ignorance and because you don't understand or care about how the economic effect of exclusivity, and the debate on how markets work and the effect on consumers of artificial scarcity, and the other issues around it.
No, you conflated being called out for your ignorance with the issue of developers getting death threats.On a digital store accessible in the same hardware as the other stores, i'm sorry to say this but i fail to see how this is a real threat.
we're not talking about a GameStop exclusivity of a physical game's limited edition. It's a dowloadable game, whose stock is never going to dry out, on a different storefront.
And i'm deleting the rest of the writeup because i don't want to be banned. Either way, this isn't what we should be talking about. I'm getting the impression that you care more about the EGS than the issue at hand.
Hopefully we can atleast get our house in order here on Era. I'd hate to think that we were contributing to the toxic atmosphere that leads to this harassment. This is allegedly supposed to be one of the more pregressive gaming forums, but tht's certainly not the impression you'd get visiting any of our EGS related threads.
Well that's the impression you're giving me by jumping the gun in a thread where the subject just have no place to be.No, you conflated being called out for your ignorance with the issue of developers getting death threats.
You're ignorant. The developers here are people who defended their project with passion and a bit of misplaced wording. My views on that subject are clear and if you read my posts on the subject here and think I care more about EGS than the welfare of people who have been the subject of death threats then I do not know what to tell you.
I have found it fascinating that basically every "*game* goes Epic exclusive" thread tends to attract multiple thousand posts. I straight up don't believe the majority of people here had heard of, or knew anything about Ooblets before this mess.
Well that's the impression you're giving me by jumping the gun in a thread where the subject just have no place to be.
I've been thinking about this a bit and I think it has everything to do with being too invested in something. I know that the common rebuttal is, "well, we're on an enthusiast video game forum", but I still think there's a line that needs to be established. People's well being is obviously far more important than some video games. Often times I see posts where people clearly have an unhealthy relationship with a game/company/platform. That kind of heavy investment has a strong potential to turn into radicalization.I was just about to say that gaming has a bigger problem with this than anything, and then I read this and it reminded me.
But I suppose that's soccers problem. We have inhumane mobs in our backyard. And who knows what to do about it? I see something about gaming attracting these maladjusted personalities, and among them the ones that are imminently dangerous.
And of course there is the link with white supremacy. This is incredibly disturbing. I have no idea what to do, but I feel there has to be something effective we can do as a greater community. I guess I should say that I hope.
The Ooblets devs essentially said the same thing, which was, "before you go off on us, get some perspective" and they were 100% correct. The people who lost their shit over Epic exclusivity need to step back from the internet for a while.I dared suggest it was not the end of the world for games to become store-exclusive and was accused of selling out my ethics for an Epic paycheck.
And one could argue you're using this thread to express your opinion on the EGS stuff when it's clearly not the place to do so.
This is why throwing accusations of ill intent in that thread is bad.
Then again, none of that matters. There are actual people being threatened RIGHT NOW.
This is becoming the new gamergate, we have to stop before it's too late.
I'm sorry for the people that genuinely want to discuss about the problems that they have with the EGS but this not the right time to do it, you're just giving a cover to an hateful movement.
Both discussions can be had at the same , their nature and subject are completely different.
Absolutely. Whilst this is not the thread for such discussions, being against the EGS for legitimate reasons is not in any way contradictory to being against toxicity towards those in the industry.
Trolls have used anime avatars since the '90s to deflect attacks and to make their profiles look legitimate. Be very careful about this line of thinking.No, the first thing I did was post this on Page 1:
"My condolences to the developers. No matter what relatively minor missteps they may have made in their announcement and PR work, two people trying to make a nice game for people should never have to deal with the outright hatred and insanity leveled at them for a conflict well beyond their control."
The second thing I did was point out how there seems to be a prevalence among harassers to heavily identify as part of the anime community. See, you have to take order into account.
Exactly.Absolutely. Whilst this is not the thread for such discussions, being against the EGS for legitimate reasons is not in any way contradictory to being against toxicity towards those in the industry.
I have found it fascinating that basically every "*game* goes Epic exclusive" thread tends to attract multiple thousand posts. I straight up don't believe the majority of people here had heard of, or knew anything about Ooblets before this mess.
It was highlighted at E3 for the PC gaming show, and they have a huge twitter following.
Both discussions can be had at the same time, their nature and subject are completely different.
Absolutely. Whilst this is not the thread for such discussions, being against the EGS for legitimate reasons is not in any way contradictory to being against toxicity towards those in the industry.
Some context, the Ooblets devs were the target of online hate for their EGS exclusivity announcement:
I checked out their Discord channel a few days ago to see how bad it got in there. What those screencaps of the developers being harsh don't show is that they were spending hours answering a flood of assholes who took the reaction to their blogpost as an excuse to harass them. With them often doing stuff like post racial slurs (spelled out in different messages to avoid filters). More waves of people came in as Youtubers like Jim Sterling and YongYea made videos about the exclusivity announcement.
And even if you can find fault, it's not a bad thing to tell your own side to shut the fuck up for 5 minutes so we can give space, to support people who are being hurt and move on from there.Thats why i would never ever will understand the posters in this forum that were crying "bu bu but both sides!" like if they were Trump, I thought people at era would be more clever than that.
Dealing with your own fanbase can be sometimes be REALLY hard, I know ive been there, and sometimes, you cant take it anymore. I cant blame the devs of Ooblets for anything they did and the fault was all on the hateful side. End of argument, full stop.
Both discussions can be had at the same time, their nature and subject are completely different.
Actually no.Does rehashing the pros and cons of Steam and EGS on a daily basis really add anything to Era? At this point I'd argue that all it's doing is feeding into the toxicity. I didn't think anything could go beyond the relentless back and forth on TLJ, but here we are.
I agree that it should be possible but then there's also reading the room. Airing one's grievances about a developer taking a EGS deal to survive in a moment where the developers are getting harassed and threatened is probably not the best thing to do. just saying as a general advice. :-)
Does rehashing the pros and cons of Steam and EGS on a daily basis really add anything to Era? At this point I'd argue that all it's doing is feeding into the toxicity. I didn't think anything could go beyond the relentless back and forth on TLJ, but here we are.
No, the first thing I did was post this on Page 1:
"My condolences to the developers. No matter what relatively minor missteps they may have made in their announcement and PR work, two people trying to make a nice game for people should never have to deal with the outright hatred and insanity leveled at them for a conflict well beyond their control."
The second thing I did was point out how there seems to be a prevalence among harassers to heavily identify as part of the anime community. See, you have to take order into account.
Thats why i would never ever will understand the posters in this forum that were crying "bu bu but both sides!" like if they were Trump, I thought people at era would be more clever than that.
Dealing with your own fanbase can be sometimes be REALLY hard, I know ive been there, and sometimes, you cant take it anymore. I cant blame the devs of Ooblets for anything they did and the fault was all on the hateful side. End of argument, full stop.
I am not generalizing to the point where I think any random anime fan is a dickbag. Only a small segment of the community is vile, just like only a small segment of the gaming community is vile.
I think it does. We often assume that the few bad actors that infiltrate these discussions dictate the terms of them but I don't believe that to be true. I'd like to elaborate but I'm not sure if this thread is the proper venue and I'd rather err on the side of caution. I really don't want to pull any focus from the issue of harassment.
On a personal level, I have had people:
Threaten to kill me (a credible enough threat that I called the police)
Try to find my house
Try to get me fired
Harass me for months
Sling massive amounts of racial slurs towards me
Call me subhuman
I don't note those last things for sympathy. I note them to show the more personal level that these things tend to go.
I am not generalizing to the point where I think any random anime fan is a dickbag. Only a small segment of the community is vile, just like only a small segment of the gaming community is vile.
But it *is* worth examining that the small few who *are* vile seem to very frequently identify so strongly with these fandoms. From gaming we've seen GamerGate, and from anime, recently, we've seen all this Vic Mignogna shit. It's worth examining what about these communities draws in these young men and radicalizes them to a point that few other communities are able to do.
Hah.Yeah you don't see "Harper's Flys to where Penguin Books can't waddle"
What the hell. Also, a quick look at some of the replies to that Tweet:
I could go on, the Twitter thread is full of those replies. Like seriously, what the hell is going on? What makes people act this way? How can anyone be this insensitive and look themselves in the mirror? I'm fully aware of that this behavior is not exclusive to gaming, but gaming should be something that unites us in an entertainment business, not attack each other at every possible moment. My son is now two years old and my daughter is just five months old, and I'm seriously anxious when the time comes for them to start going online, when it's just oozing with angry, harmful and terrible people around every corner.
But it's directly related to the harassment issue. Is it worth this?
The harassment hasn't strictly been developers or Epic and has hit very close to home for Era.
This is true and im 100% for what you say. Thats why I think is also important to compare and study while one group of countries anime's fanbase is completely different even on political views than the other. Its exactly the same type of media consumed around the world than in america so the question is why? why are they so radically different?I am not generalizing to the point where I think any random anime fan is a dickbag. Only a small segment of the community is vile, just like only a small segment of the gaming community is vile.
But it *is* worth examining that the small few who *are* vile seem to very frequently place identify so strongly with these fandoms. From gaming we've seen GamerGate, and from anime, recently, we've seen all this Vic Mignogna shit. It's worth examining what about these communities draws in these young men and radicalizes them to a point that few other communities are able to do.