ELDEN RING |OT3| Try Jumping

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Yossarian said:
I'm sorry, but I'm confused as to how that answers my question. To clarify, the question is: "How does having 50 VIG negatively affect build variety?"

More directly, what builds can't you make with 50 VIG?

Starting to get ridiculous and is also indicative of a fanbase this rabid.

Let me make this easy. Even Dark Souls, if I had shit Vitality I can still beat bosses, sure my build my put me up against the wall.

I would get 2 hit, but they also didn't have 8 move combos all with AoE lol.

It's called balance. Do I need go further?

Guppeth · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
Starting to get ridiculous and is also indicative of a fanbase this rabid.

You're doing it again. Is this how you usually talk to people?

Cudpug · Apr 23, 2022

So today I fought

Mohg

and I've heard he's meant to be hard, but I beat him first try. I also heard he has a phase 2, but he literally just died after one phase for me. Was super easy, I'm not very good at the game, and I'm about level 150. Did something glitch out or did I get lucky?

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Guppeth said:
You're doing it again. Is this how you usually talk to people?

I think I've been pretty tame haha based on Era status

Guppeth · Apr 23, 2022

Cudpug said:
So today I fought

Mohg

and I've heard he's meant to be hard, but I beat him first try. I also heard he has a phase 2, but he literally just died after one phase for me. Was super easy, I'm not very good at the game, and I'm about level 150. Did something glitch out or did I get lucky?

I think he's highly level-dependant, and you can reach him early so a lot of people struggle. First time I fought him I one-shot him and I couldn't understand the posts lamenting how hard he is. In my current playthrough I met him at level 70 and it was a very different story.

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Guppeth said:
I think he's highly level-dependant, and you can reach him early so a lot of people struggle. First time I fought him I one-shot him and I couldn't understand the posts lamenting how hard he is. In my current playthrough I met him at level 70 and it was a very different story.

NVM not ok

Djredline · Apr 23, 2022

1st ever fromsoft game and just finished my 3rd playthrough and all achievements.

Think I've beaten all bosses apart from the double crucible knights as I just fall apart at the sight of them.

Hotbug · Apr 23, 2022

Djredline said:
1st ever fromsoft game and just finished my 3rd playthrough and all achievements.

Think I've beaten all bosses apart from the double crucible knights as I just fall apart at the sight of them.

Their AI got patched in 1.04 so they should be easier now. Haven't seen video of the patched fight yet but give them a try!

Yossarian · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
Starting to get ridiculous and is also indicative of a fanbase this rabid.

Let me make this easy. Even Dark Souls, if I had shit Vitality I can still beat bosses, sure my build my put me up against the wall.

I would get 2 hit, but they also didn't have 8 move combos all with AoE lol.

It's called balance. Do I need go further?

I've politely asked a straightforward question for the last two pages and you've avoided answering it, which is rather ironic when you complained earlier about how "FROM stans" don't explain themselves.

Big_Blue said:
The issue with you guys is you continuously fail to talk about WHY you like bad aspects of this game. We debate about games everyday on this social platform lol. But the refusal for some FromSoftware stans to explain why they like certain aspects of something is stark and comical

You have explained why you don't like the alleged "VIG requirement" (which I don't think I ever asked, but thank you anyway), but you have yet to explain how it negatively affects build variety, which is all I've been asking.

So again, the most direct question I can ask to understand where you're coming from:

"What builds can't you make if you have to have 50 VIG?"

That's all I'm asking.

Slayerfolyfe · Apr 23, 2022

So the area after defeating the capital boss is the point of no return? Wondering if I should go there

Cudpug · Apr 23, 2022

Guppeth said:
I think he's highly level-dependant, and you can reach him early so a lot of people struggle. First time I fought him I one-shot him and I couldn't understand the posts lamenting how hard he is. In my current playthrough I met him at level 70 and it was a very different story.

Is he meant to have a second phase? Cause I certainly didn't notice one.

Icarian · Apr 23, 2022

Slayerfolyfe said:
So the area after defeating the capital boss is the point of no return? Wondering if I should go there

There's no point of no return besides defeating the boss of Farum Azula, which causes irreversible changes to a certain area, and that's basically the end of the game.

Guppeth · Apr 23, 2022

Cudpug said:
Is he meant to have a second phase? Cause I certainly didn't notice one.

Yeah. At half health he starts doing stuff, but if you're doing loads of damage he won't get the chance.

Ferrs · Apr 23, 2022

Guppeth said:
Did you ever play the Chalice Dungeons in BB? The late ones, with all the extra modifiers to buff the enemies, were great! And sometimes you'd get a layout that was just unfair to the point of sadism. Those fucking spiders the bell maiden summons. Infinite spiders that can two-shot you! Love it.

My man. I seriously loved spelunking through Chalices. There were some awesome ones.

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Yossarian said:
I've politely asked a straightforward question for the last two pages and you've avoided answering it, which is rather ironic when you complained earlier about how "FROM stans" don't explain themselves.

You have explained why you don't like the alleged "VIG requirement" (which I don't think I ever asked, but thank you anyway), but you have yet to explain how it negatively affects build variety, which is all I've been asking.

So again, the most direct question I can ask to understand where you're coming from:

"What builds can't you make if you have to have 50 VIG?"

That's all I'm asking.

This is ridiculous

Re-read what you just said hahaha.

I don't want a VIG build. In past From games that was ok. Beating the game was doable. I could have a 50 Dex/5O Arc and still realistically work it out.

But in ER it's next to impossible. Sure show me a YT proving me wrong after 100 times but guess what I'm not doing it after 100 times. That's my complaint

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's stupid to have to be successful after 100 times for most people.

Ferrs · Apr 23, 2022

I think the issue here is still stuck in the error that there's a meta at 120 and you can't level past that,kinda like old Souls. But 120 is an outdated level in Elden Ring. You end up finishing the game at around 140ish normally, which is far enough to get 40 VIG (softcap) and the other required stats. Also most people have agreed with a 150 meta anyways (except duelists).

Xeteh · Apr 23, 2022

tjlee2 said:
Are there still only 10 character slots or is there more this time? I'm at 8 so it's now a concern.

Only 10. If you're on PC its really easy to back up your save, doable on consoles from what I understand but probably more of a hassle.

Yossarian · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
This is ridiculous

Yes, it is. You have avoided answering a straightforward question over multiple posts.

Perhaps reconsider complaining about how "FROM stans" can't explain themselves until you can afford others the same courtesy.

Big_Blue said:
I don't want a VIG build.

As I mentioned earlier, builds are usually defined by the primary attack stat (DEX, STR, FTH, INT, ARC) and/or the primary weapon/spells.

For example, if you have 50 VIG and 50 FTH, that is not a VIG build, it is a FTH build. If you have 50 VIG, 20 DEX, 20 STR and 40 INT, that isn't a VIG build, that's an INT build (or arguably an INT/Quality hybrid build).

Do you perhaps understand now why having high VIG doesn't affect build variety in the slightest?

tjlee2 · Apr 23, 2022

Xeteh said:
Only 10. If you're on PC its really easy to back up your save, doable on consoles from what I understand but probably more of a hassle.

I run a bunch of different builds for PvP and there is just too much variety this time. I might actually need two different back ups that holds different characters each because I don't just throw away the character if I end up liking how it plays.

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Yossarian said:
Yes, it is. You have avoided answering a straightforward question over multiple posts.

Perhaps reconsider complaining about how "FROM stans" can't explain themselves until you can afford others the same courtesy.

As I mentioned earlier, builds are usually defined by the primary attack stat (DEX, STR, FTH, INT, ARC) and/or the primary weapon/spells.

For example, if you have 50 VIG and 50 FTH, that is not a VIG build, it is a FTH build. If you have 50 VIG, 20 DEX, 20 STR and 40 INT, that isn't a VIG build, that's an INT/Quality hybrid build.

Do you perhaps understand now why having high VIG doesn't affect build variety in the slightest?

You're just arguing semantically. I do not want to have 50 VIG to have a viable build for the end game. Is that easier? That's a difficulty slider lol

Damage scale is most affected by Vigor in Elden, that's fact. Cool up to Reyndell it's fair.

Maybe it's the soft cap but it gets to a point after that where if you don't have 60 VIG you can't survive 2 hits.

Also cool. Than you have teleporting mobs, re-skinned dogs, Zamor Knights, Giants etc. that are super buffed and literally the same enemies we faced in Lingrave/Liurnia/Caelid. Shit is so wack but the backlash I've gotten for saying it is crazy.

I saw a hand spider late game and thought that they were crunching. Shit was garbage

IvorB · Apr 23, 2022

Enemies deal more damage so you need to spec for more life. It's a super basic RPG 101 concept. It doesn't stop you from rolling whatever build you want play.

burgerdog · Apr 23, 2022

I made it past the giant at lv1 and I want to go straight to Farum so that I can get the rest of the smithing bells. Do any quests get messed up just by going to Farum?

Yossarian · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
You're just arguing semantically. I do not want to have 50 VIG to have a viable build for the end game. Is that easier? That's a difficulty slider lol

That's a completely different proposition to "50 VIG negatively affects build variety", which is demonstrably false.

So I take it we agree it doesn't affect build variety, it's just you don't like "having" to put points in VIG?

Guppeth · Apr 23, 2022

burgerdog said:
I made it past the giant at lv1 and I want to go straight to Farum so that I can get the rest of the smithing bells. Do any quests get messed up just by going to Farum?

I think Fia leaves the Roundtable, so move her out first.

Ferrs · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
I mentioned this before but the exploration of the end

You're just arguing semantically. I do not want to have 50 VIG to have a viable build for the end game. Is that easier? That's a difficulty slider lol

If the issue is that the difficulty jump at Mountaintops is to steep I agree, I already comented it back then, it's such a big jump.

That being said, I never felt like it harmed my builds. You have to put more points into VIG yeah, but you also get a lot of exp with the increased difficulty. I would probably rather a tamer difficulty curve and less exp, but it is what is it, and at the end you overcome and overlevel it like any other thing in the game.

DPB · Apr 23, 2022

Cudpug said:
Is he meant to have a second phase? Cause I certainly didn't notice one.

You fight him in two different places. If you're referring to the one below the capital, he only has one phase there.

burgerdog · Apr 23, 2022

Guppeth said:
I think Fia leaves the Roundtable, so move her out first.

That part is done, thanks man you've been a great help, your knowledge of the game is awesome.

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Yossarian said:
That's a completely different proposition to "50 VIG negatively affects build variety", which is demonstrably false.

So I take it we agree it doesn't affect build variety, it's just you don't like "having" to put points in VIG?

Alright I'm going to put this in simple fucking terns

1) DS alright my VIG isn't up late game I can 4-5 combo moves
2) Et This Boss is moving Bloodborne style ok! The boss is 2 hitting me level 100. Oh shit I respecced to 60 VIG and still got 2 shot

This is so stupid if I'm forced to allocate points to a specific stat how's that not affecting my build? You.literally admitted it and continue to use semantics to take ignorance

Guppeth · Apr 23, 2022

burgerdog said:
That part is done, thanks man you've been a great help, your knowledge of the game is awesome.

Aww people are being so nice today. I should have Big_Blue follow me around and call me a toxic rabid stan every day.

You up for it, BB? There's no pay but you'll get a reputation as "that guy".

IvorB · Apr 23, 2022

It's tough going from open world to legacy dungeons where you can't just constantly refill your flasks anymore.

I need to conserve mana so I can't just nuke everything like I was doing. :(

Cudpug · Apr 23, 2022

DPB said:
You fight him in two different places. If you're referring to the one below the capital, he only has one phase there.

I'm at the Palace, so I assume he was supposed to have 2. Guess I didn't notice!

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Guppeth said:
Aww people are being so nice today. I should have Big_Blue follow me around and call me a toxic rabid stan every day.

You up for it, BB? There's no pay but you'll get a reputation as "that guy".

Lol why you'd probably be at Malenia for the 800th time, you'd be too busy.

Yossarian · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
This is so stupid if I'm forced to allocate points to a specific stat how's is that not affect my build?

Firstly, you are not forced. Whether you "feel" forced or not, it is literally a decision you're making to make the game more palatable to you. Other people make the decision not to pump VIG because it makes the game more palatable to them.

Secondly, there is enough experience and points - without grinding - to have 50-60 VIG and any number or variety of builds you like. Enemy exp rewards scale as sharply as the difficulty, as do the consumable rune items. There are stat boosting talismans, armour, etc.

I'm happy to be proven wrong here. Could you please - finally - show me or describe a build you can't make because you have to have 50 VIG in ER that you could make in Dark Souls?

Guppeth · Apr 23, 2022

Cudpug said:
I'm at the Palace, so I assume he was supposed to have 2. Guess I didn't notice!

It's one of those fights where at low health they go RAWR I'M BUSTING OUT MY BEST SHIT NOW, like Margit. No cutscene, so you can smash them to death before they RAWR.

Big_Blue said:
Lol why you'd probably be at Malenia for the 800th time, you'd be too busy.

You could watch me fight, and discourage me with insults. It's like extra-hard mode. I like this plan.

Alex2DX · Apr 23, 2022

Can't believe I'm 90 hours in and still uncovering massive areas. I love it, but at this rate I'll never play Horizon lol.

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Yossarian said:
Firstly, you are not forced. Whether you "feel" forced or not, it is literally a decision you're making to make the game more palatable to you. Other people make the decision not to pump VIG because it makes the game more palatable to them.

Secondly, there is enough experience and points - without grinding - to have 50-60 VIG and any number or variety of builds you like. Enemy exp rewards scale as sharply as the difficulty, as do the consumable rune items.

I'm happy to be proven wrong here. Could you show me or describe a build you can't make because you have to have 50 VIG in ER that you could make in Dark Souls?

I can't believe this shit. I'm literally talking about how palatable the game is haha. You're using semantics to move the goalposts. We're talking about a video game

Enemy EXPs don't scale as sharply outside of bosses it's not true at all. That's also unbalanced.

Killing the fire gargoyles that are literal statues and can't turn around give more runes 3500k vs the gargoyles that 3 hit you with blood damage. Guess which enemy is harder to detect and kill???? How many runes do you get latter?

That's why everyone runs through the mountains lol unless you're a masochist.

Yossarian · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
I can't believe this shit. I'm literally talking about how palatable the game is haha. You're using semantics to move the goalposts.

I think you'll find that my goalpost has been in the same place all the way through our painful discussion. I don't think having 50 VIG affects build variety. I've asked you multiple times for an example of a build you can't make because of having 50 VIG and you have avoided providing one.

Probably because there isn't one.

You can make your point about the late-game difficulty spike and most people's need to pump VIG to survive it without making up shit about how it negatively affects build variety. That, in a nutshell, is the crux of my point and it hasn't changed.

Big_Blue said:
Enemy EXPs don't scale as sharply outside of bosses it's not true at all. That's also unbalanced.

There is a sharp increase in XP in late game areas. Kill a Godrick soldier in Limgrave, then kill the Liurnia, Capital and Haligtree equivalent and you'll see the differences.

Big_Blue said:
Killing the fire gargoyles that are literal statues and can't turn around give more runes 3500k vs the gargoyles that 3 hit you with blood damage. Guess which enemy is harder to detect and kill???? How many runes do you get latter?

Yeah, I agree. The XP values between enemies sometimes doesn't make sense. That wasn't what I was talking about though.

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Yossarian said:
I think you'll find that my goalpost has been in the same place all the way through our painful discussion:

I don't think having 50 VIG affects build variety. I've asked you multiple times for an example of a build you can't make because of having 50 VIG and you have avoided providing one.

Probably because there isn't one.

You can make your point about the late-game difficulty spike and most people's need to pump VIG to survive it without making up shit about how it negatively affects build variety. That, in a nutshell, is the crux of my point.

There is a sharp increase in XP in late game areas. Kill a Godrick soldier in Limgrave, then kill the Liurnia, Capital and Haligtree equivalent and you'll see the differences.

Yeah, I agree. The XP values between enemies sometimes doesn't make sense. That wasn't what I was talking about though.

This is what I mean by semantics. You can literally max out any character by easily farming to max level. Whether it's going to Moghs or other earlier areas in Caelid.

But that shit sucks. There maybe 1-2 bosses that did crazy damage in Soulsbourne and THEY got nerfed lmao

Yossarian · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
This is what I mean by semantics.

Ironically, I don't think you know the meaning of the word.

I haven't said a jot about farming runes. You can make whatever build you want and still have 50-60 VIG without farming in the way you describe. I've literally done precisely that.

NightmaresHunter · Apr 23, 2022

I wish the game had more influence from DeS by how weapons' attack type and attributes makes a big difference.

Using holy attacks against Deathbird will destroy him, but this the only scenario I can thing of.

Deleted member 36054 · Apr 23, 2022

Yossarian said:
Ironically, I don't think you know the meaning of the word.

I haven't said a jot about farming runes. You can make whatever build you want and still have 50-60 VIG without farming. I've literally done precisely that.

Oh boy. I'll say this again.

You never had to do 50+ Vig builds. You're probably not familiar but in the past health was under vitality. But that was never required to prioritize as a build.

It helped in some fights but didn't in other.

The great part of Soulsbourne was Balance between all builds. I think you're struggling with the balance part of the vernacular.

SP. · Apr 23, 2022

The hell even is this thread now..

Jamesways · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
Lol why you'd probably be at Malenia for the 800th time, you'd be too busy.

Hahaha!! Trying to beat her with pot soldiers and a torch!

You know you're not wrong, scaling and xp and balance are inconsistent at times in this compared to other ones.

I was surprised to find people leveling way past 110-120, but yeah, in this one, everything's bigger. The world, the levels, the damage you do, the damage they do. Everything.

Yossarian · Apr 23, 2022

Big_Blue said:
You never had to do 50+ Vig builds. You're probably not familiar but in the past health was under vitality. But that was never required to prioritize as a build.

You had to invest in VIT in previous games. If you didn't, you would have trouble reaching the end game.

For example, the softcaps for VIT in Dark Souls were 30 (1000ish HP) and 50 (1500ish HP). VIG in ER gives about 950 for 30 VIG and 1700ish for 50 VIG, so not that much different. If anything, you get more HP for the same investment in ER.

Funnily enough, most build recommendations for DS would put VIT at 40-50, leaning more toward the latter. Same for 2, 3 and Bloodborne.

Maybe you're misremembering?

SP. said:
The hell even is this thread now..

Be the change you wish to see.

Jamesways · Apr 23, 2022

Guppeth said:
It's one of those fights where at low health they go RAWR I'M BUSTING OUT MY BEST SHIT NOW, like Margit. No cutscene, so you can smash them to death before they RAWR.

I hit Mohg at later levels, and read up on the encounter. After the horror stories oh phase 2 I was mentally prepared,

got the tear for the physick, got the shackle, buffed my bleed build, ready to roll. Smacked the shackle 3 times to start and he only moved frantically at the end and was downed in less than 1min.

But like you said, depends on level, build, etc. I struggled like hell at some of the early bosses people just steamrolled.

Icarian · Apr 23, 2022

In my journey to smack every single NPC on the face to see their reaction, Rya, like Roderika, has a barrier that prevents you from hurting her.

Big_Blue said:
Oh boy. I'll say this again.

You never had to do 50+ Vig builds. You're probably not familiar but in the past health was under vitality. But that was never required to prioritize as a build.

It helped in some fights but didn't in other.

The great part of Soulsbourne was Balance between all builds. I think you're struggling with the balance part of the vernacular.

You're stuck thinking Elden Ring is somehow the same game as previous entries. Every single soft cap has gone up, in previous games you had a quality build at 40/40 STR/DEX, this is no longer the case, in previous games you had the Vitality stat to increase equipment load, Attunement to increase spell slots or Adaptability to increase roll iframes / consumable speed or godforbid, Resistance to increase defense. Those stats are gone, did those games also prevent you from building you character like you wanted because you had to increase those stats?

As for needing 50+ vigor, you can beat the game handily with 40 VIG, I and many others did so without too many problems even with Radagon's Soreseal which increases damage taken, this is a measly 13 vigor more than what I would put in DS3 for a PVE character, for example. if we take into consideration that I don't have to invest any points in Vitality or Attunement, I would say that there's more room for build variety, not less.

Jamesways · Apr 23, 2022

Icarian said:
In my journey to smack every single NPC on the face to see their reaction, Rya, like Roderika, has a barrier that prevents you from hurting her.

How could you do this to Boc or Bairn?!?!

Icarian · Apr 23, 2022

Jamesways said:
How could you do this to Boc or Bairn?!?!

Boc dies in a single hit, and calls for her mum :(

Thops head gets all bloody and begs you to stop.

Jamesways · Apr 23, 2022

Icarian said:
Boc dies in a single hit, and calls for her mum :(

Thops head gets all bloody and begs you to stop.

That's cool. I applaud your experiment for testing reactions they put in the game. Does the pot Bairn challenge you or call over a big one?

Icarian · Apr 23, 2022

Jamesways said:
That's cool. I applaud your experiment for testing reactions they put in the game. Does the pot Bairn challenge you or call over a big one?

Bairn tells you if this is who you really are, and that you've cracked his heart and disappears...

And then big papa jar nearby comes through for your blood lol.

ELDEN RING |OT3| Try Jumping

Chicken Chaser