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EA Motive's Dan Lowe compares the input response times of RDR2 with Uncharted, Assassin's Creed etc
- Thread starter Toriko
- Start date
Look, I know you feel the need to defend some people in here but read our conversation to find out why.
I don't think there's a variation of input lag in gameplay. He does and wants to post a video.
I think any assumptions are just those. I would hope that anyone who watches the video would be able to see that the test was with movement and nothing else.
That said, my view, being sensitive to lag, is that it's there across the game, possibly to varying degrees, but that would need further testing.
You can quickly flick the left stick by itself and Arthur will not move at all. When holding X this doesn't happen. Can we please stop pretending like anyone who has problems with the limited scope(leading to wide claims) of the video in the OP is just blindly defending the game and burying their head in the sand.
It's a BB gun not a real gun, real guns are illegal in here Taiwan.
It's an HK USP.45 made by KSC (a Japanese BB gun company), a full metal gas blow back BB gun.
I am enjoying the game immensely, but the feeling of lead running through Arthur's veins due to the input lag is frustrating.
Not gonna lie, I didn't even notice any input lag in RDR2, i love the way arthur controls.
Different tastes and all, you know?
On the other hand, I hate the way MH:W controls to the point that i can't be bothered to play the game.
Different tastes and all, you know?
I am really glad that this topic got so big. Within the first couple of days i feared that not enough people cared.
And, yeah the game feels pretty bad to play...intentional or not is besides the point.
It's a response to the some of the posts early on in this thread.
I tried it. I flicked the stick while running or moving on the horse. There seems to be noticeable input lag. It was a response to a few saying the video is misleading and this can be proven if you hold X before flicking the stick.
I need a good non-spoilery video like Lowe's but with the right analog stick for the aiming. Anyone?
That will be more precise for determining general input lag since there are no slow animations involved that are also winding up slowly.
And frankly, I'm more intersted in that information because it is more critical for for the gameplay imo.
That will be more precise for determining general input lag since there are no slow animations involved that are also winding up slowly.
And frankly, I'm more intersted in that information because it is more critical for for the gameplay imo.
lol
Ugh...people still don't understand the difference between input delay and slow movement, we are NOT asking for a fast pacing twitch shooter, we like the heavy control as much as you do. We just want the game to feel more responsive with the SAME EXACT CONTROL.
It's like you can have a slow truck that starts really slow, but the moment you hit the gas you will feel the truck moving, however slow it might be.
The problem here isn't the truck being slow or the acceleration being slow, the problem here is that the first few second you hit the gas, NOTHING happens, it takes a while for the truck to even start being slow.
You hate it, so? There's still no input delay, what even is the point of your post? That ''because I prefer RDR2 control to MHW therefore I actually prefer input delay to no input delay''?
Trust me, you will LOVE RDR2 control even more without any input delay, it's not about how you like or dislike the control, it's the input delay being present.
We are not talking about how good the game feels after your character starts reacting to your button command, we are talking about how long it takes for your button command to register.
Well I love the way Arthur controls too, but I hate the input lag here, do you even understand what I am talking about? Can you even comprehend these words?
It's like you can have a slow truck that starts really slow, but the moment you hit the gas you will feel the truck moving, however slow it might be.
The problem here isn't the truck being slow or the acceleration being slow, the problem here is that the first few second you hit the gas, NOTHING happens, it takes a while for the truck to even start being slow.
You hate it, so? There's still no input delay, what even is the point of your post? That ''because I prefer RDR2 control to MHW therefore I actually prefer input delay to no input delay''?
Trust me, you will LOVE RDR2 control even more without any input delay, it's not about how you like or dislike the control, it's the input delay being present.
We are not talking about how good the game feels after your character starts reacting to your button command, we are talking about how long it takes for your button command to register.
Well I love the way Arthur controls too, but I hate the input lag here, do you even understand what I am talking about? Can you even comprehend these words?
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I'm not sure how input lag is considered taste. Do you also play your online games with a 200ms ping or forcefully try to increase input lag by switching tv settings?
Destiny 2 has the camera locked to over-the-shoulder, right?
The stick does forward/back/strafe rather than 360 degree movement?
The stick does forward/back/strafe rather than 360 degree movement?
Within certain margins (e.g. the ridiculous ones you suggest), if it doesn't get in the way of gameplay then taste can come into it. Some will like an arcade game's immediate response, others will like to feel like they're influencing a movie in titles like RDR2 so input lag is forgivable.
I haven't seen comparisons with other games, but I feel that is a lot of lag for just shooting a weapon.
Like I've googled Destiny and that seems to have about 100ms for shooting and if I'm calculating correctly RD2 has about 250+ms of lag till the gun fires. I dont know maybe it is in line with other 3rd person shooters though.
The point of my post is to show you that just because you think something is superior does not actually make it automatically superior.
Like i said, I didn't notice the input lag.
Trust you? No thank you, everything I've read from you in the RDR thread and in this topic suggests you are a less than pleasant person to interact with, so I'd rather not.
Edit: yep, your edit just proves my point.
What kind of useless test is this? The initial tester was testing character movement and you're testing something completely different and trying to equate the two....
I didn't ''think'' minimum input delay is superior, it's a fact.
Minimum input delay is always better than noticeable input delay, doesn't matter how slow or how fast the game is, even if you are controlling a ship there shouldn't be any input delay, you can make the ship turn really slow and need lots of time to even start turning but the moment we push the analog to command you should be able to feel like you are controlling something, be it audio cue or ship vibrating.
Also It's hard to be a pleasant person when I am talking people trying to downplay & dismiss real issues, I absolutely hate this ''whatevar, seems fine to me mistah'' attitude.
Quoting for new page. I've seen some people downplay my comparison as unimportant because it's shooting. These people have obviously no idea what this thread is about then. Goal posts have been moved. If Digital Foundry decides to do a more professional video on this I wonder if these people will also downplay that as well.
It really isn't. Just stop being such a condescending jerk.
Maybe then people would actually take your points seriously.
Lol a DF video will be the opposite of what you want to prove and you will be the one trying to downplay it.
I don't care about being a nice person, I do however really care if you even understood the difference between slow movement and input delay? or do you still think we are criticizing the control instead of the delay?
Firing a gun is the most common and precise method of calculating input lag in a video game. I'm sure you can make a much better test, thought.
It's testing input latency. If there were actual input latency, in general, then it would be present on every action.
If there as as big of an issue as people in this thread make it out to be, DF would have already mentioned it. The fact that they didn't just means they didn't think input lag was anything out of the ordinary.
It's the most precise method of calculating input lag for firing a gun in a game. It's not the most precise method for calculating average input lag because you're assuming that the input lag is the same for all actions in the game. It's already been established that it's not especially in RDR2. If you want to actually refute the op, replicate the exact test in the original video and present your findings, then we can have a proper discussion. Otherwise, please stop with the false equivalency. We don't need anymore attempts to derail the thread.
the game really shows its awful controls when you get into arthur's little tent area in the camp and it's such an ordeal trying to get him to sleep or shave or pick up an item in the camp. it's like that episode of spongebob where he's trying to get patrick to open the lid and he puts his hand everywhere else except the lid
There's no input delay when firing a gun (would be literally unplayable if so) but there's BIG input delay when moving your character around, which is way more common than shooting, you move more than you shoot in this game btw.
Also, just to prove there's input lag, try turning 180 with Arthur.
Go to 3rd person mode, stand still, look forward, then pull back left analog stick just a moment and let go (almost as if you are pulling a trigger but with thumb), see how long it takes for him to even start turning, the time between you pulling back the stick and Arthur starts turning is the so called input delay.
Push the left analog stick forward to turn another 180, do it back and forth, and tell me there's no input lag here.
(Don't try to prove this post wrong if you don't even have the game, let's be clear here. I am STILL PLAYING as we speak.)
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DF do great work but they aren't infallible. They didn't address the HDR issue until someone pointed it out.
I've thought the same thing ever since GTA4, and when the issue persisted in RDR and GTAV. I think it could be more than a coincidence.
I hope this is the case and not some stupid gameplay decision. Still bad for gameplay but at least it's not a result of poor gameplay design.
but on the other hand, this means there's basically no fix.
Well, I don't expect them to fix this anyway even if they can. Rockstar do not care about feedback whatsoever. Like I said, I will change my avatar to a pile of dogshit for a month straight if they did patch this out. You can see how much I don't trust them.
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How does either of these make sense. R* just likes it this way. There isnt a tech limitation.
People would probably call me a Red Dead 2 hater if I didn't have this avatar, just so you know I am actually loving the game, not hating it. I am still playing it everyday.
I just want the same control, which feels great btw, to be more responsive, is that too much as ask?
The input delay is real here, there's no bullshit. We are asking for a better control input, not trying to shit on the game.
I just want the same control, which feels great btw, to be more responsive, is that too much as ask?
The input delay is real here, there's no bullshit. We are asking for a better control input, not trying to shit on the game.
Rock Star is intentionally make it this way to get character feel heavy. In the video character is standing and it takes awhile to get moving, when you are running and then turn the inputlag is way smaller, and when you move the camera or aim, there is not that big of inputlag.
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Things like post processing can often lead to noticeablw input lag.
Wrong? I dunno about wrong. I'm just saying, it plays terribly...to me.
Lol yea this is how I feel. I can understand if it isn't for someone individually, but the clunky mechanics are made up for in other aspects for me. Each open world engine and developer has their pros and cons
Playing spiderman after is hilarious. Everything is so much more fluid for movement and combat, but the world is nowhere near as immersive or interactive. I can't even walk in and out of buildings without a load screen.
I really like the game but there's no way a game should review aswell as it did with laggy control like it has. This video basically disproves the "design decision" excuses people have been making since it launched.
I imagine the PC version at 60fps will feel infinitely better but I ain't waiting now as I'm 20 hours deep and £60 down lol.
Because reviewers take more into account when reviewing a game than Arthur controlling like a JRPG character.
Imagine if Era posters were the ones responsible for making professional reviews.
A game like RDR2 would get a 6 or 7 at the most, which is absolutely laughable. All because Arthur doesn't control like Dark Souls.
In fact, the guy who reviewed the game for Slant magazine (Steven Scaife) is an Era poster.
He gave the game a 7/10. Venture to guess what his main gripes were?
Again, I'm not defending the input lag, or the movement being somewhat sluggish, im pointing out how hyperbolic and ridiculous this site is when it comes to criticism, especially for a game like RDR2 that does so many things right - yet nobody wants to focus on that.
I've seen several people on this board straight up say they won't give this game a chance, simply because they heard it has "bad controls".
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They get a free pass with everything. what sustain RDR2 is hype and only that. Fake HDR, Input lag, no online at launch and only beta in november with no details, Blurry version on PS4 Pro with less quality than PS4 version.
Nobody wants to focus on that? The games been out two weeks and it's already on page ~130 of its second OT.
I've personally played it for nearly 70 hours already and completed it which is why I feel okay about criticising the things I don't like about it.
If you can't accept that people aren't just trolling because how could a game with a 97 metacritic be anything other than perfect!!! maybe this isn't the sort of thread for you.
So..
Fake HDR: -1
PS4 Pro blurrier than it should be: -1
Online not available at launch: -1
Input lag high on certain actions: -1
RDR2 final score 6/10
- ResetEra
Does that sound closer to what you'd agree with?
I've never said it was perfect, friend.
I've gone out of my way to point out it's faults, especially when it comes to controls (default settings in particular).
You clearly are missing my point.