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Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,482
I want to preface this by saying that this isn't a jab at Mario Kart or any other series. Every game does something really well, and for Crash Team Racing I think that's the drifitng mechanic. I wanted to make this thread to focus in on that specific mechanic, highlight what it brings to the game that other kart racers often lack, and let people who are unaware, know how it works. The drifitng mechanic significantly contributes to why I love CTR so much, and how it's differentiated from Mario Kart.

Drifting in CTR

Like other kart racing games, in order to perform a drift in CTR you just hold down the bumper while performing a turn. What differentiates this mechanic is that you're able to gain a boost, by pressing the opposing bumper button with appropriate timing. The smoke fumes at the back of your car, or the UI indicator at the lower right show you the appropriate timing.

Do this three times within a single drift and you'll earn a substantial boost.

This mechanic is interesting, because unlike Mario Kart Double Dash (or DS) where players simply mash the stick to activate a boost, the boost in CTR focuses on timing. This avoids repetitive movements that might be tiring over time, while still emphasising player skill.

Perhaps more notably, the size of the boost is dependent on the explicit timing of the button press, down to a singular frame. The later you time the boost, the more boost you end up with. However, the closer the boost is performed to the perfect timing, the more risk there is associated, as just one frame late will lead to you missing the boost.

Here's a video that explains drifting and the min-turbo system



Reserves and SAFI Fire

What's especially interesting about CTR's boost mechanic is the invisible system that it feeds into, called the reserve system. Every time you perform a boost in CTR, the game operates by adding the 'boost time' to an invisible pool. If the time between your boosts is rapid enough, and the boosts are substantial enough, then you can actually continuously stack this pool so that you are able to boost for indefinite periods at a time of your choosing. This can be used strategically, similar to mechanics such as KERS from F1 racing.

Here's an explanation of SAFI fire and Reserves



This is a big part of why I love the gameplay in CTR, so I wanted to spotlight it. If you're unaware of how these systems work then watching the videos might help you compete when CTR: Nitro Fuelled comes out, particularly if you plan on playing online. Some of us will be boosting around the track with speed that seems inconceivable. These mechanics are also incredibly valuable for players that want to beat all of N.Oxides time trials.

 

Coi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,808
It's the same as the original game right?!I loved it so much against the weird boost on Mario Kart 64.
 

FiXalaS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
Kuwait.
I completely agree.

on a tier of it's own

(I fear the remaster may have different weight and physics.. That would disappoint me as I played tons of the original.)
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
It's why CTR is my favorite kart racer ever. The controls, mechanics and everything are just so fucking tight, it's perfection. And now with Nitro Fueled we're getting the same thing again, but with new content and modern graphics, no doubts it'll become my favorite kart racer ever.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,137
Having played Nitro Fueled over the weekend, the drifting feels as good there, and that's in an earlier build, so it will probably be even tighter in the final build.

Once you master the drift system, the time difference you can create between someone who knows what they are doing and those that can't.

YLZK0pV.jpg


Is simply staggering. It's a game that really does reward knowing the mechanics and the sense of speed you can get when mastering the reserve system is phenominal.
 

Sp1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
401
That's one of the reasons it has some of the best gameplay in its genre still. I only played it a few years back and was shocked that it not only holds up against modern Mario Kart, but surpasses it in aspects like this.
 
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Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,482
Having played Nitro Fueled over the weekend, the drifting feels as good there, and that's in an earlier build, so it will probably be even tighter in the final build.

Once you master the drift system, the time difference you can create between someone who knows what they are doing and those that can't.

YLZK0pV.jpg


Is simply staggering. It's a game that really does reward knowing the mechanics and the sense of speed you can get when mastering the reserve system is phenominal.

Yes! I have heard this from others who have played it too.

I have also seen videos that indicate that the reserves and safi fire system is intact.

 

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,447
San Diego County
It's mechanics like these that make it hard for me to get into other kart racers. As flashy and colorful and loaded with tracks as they may be, I just don't find the core racing to be as engaging. CTR nailed it astoundingly well for ND's first and only kart racer, and I'm disappointed that so few kart racers after took notes. Even the other Crash racing games abandoned the formula after Nitro Kart. So glad the game is getting to come back into the limelight with Nitro Fueled at the hands of developers who seem to understand well what made it so good. Hopefully lessons will be learned.

The other thing I find makes CTR so good is the focus on hops. The tracks are littered with ramps, bumps, and drop offs that reward the player with a very satisfying speed boost for timing their hops to leap off at the apex of any such jump. A lot of the game's shortcuts require careful timing and building/maintaining of speed, so the game feels hugely rewarding of skillful play.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,582
Spain
Seen the gameplays, it reminds me of Mario Kart DS where you have to go drifting even in straight lines. Ugh.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,910
JP
Seen the gameplays, it reminds me of Mario Kart DS where you have to go drifting even in straight lines. Ugh.
I was going to ask why people like this in CTR but not in MKDS, lol. I was pretty great at snaking in both games, it annoys people who can't/won't do it.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
I was going to ask why people like this in CTR but not in MKDS, lol. I was pretty great at snaking in both games, it annoys people who can't/won't do it.
I love Snaking too, but in MKDS it broke your fingers because you had to wiggle the d-pad. Here's just pressing a button.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
It is not depth, it is a mechanic that forces you to play in a counterintuitive way. That something is complex does not make it depth.
You have to learn optimal routes and adapt them on the fly based on what happens, on top of needing to nail the execution to optimize your time. It's by all means depth.
 

pants

Shinra Employee
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,220
Anecdotally, as someone who considers this muscle memory after hundreds of hours with the original, I played the remaster at PAX East and it felt slightly off.

There are a dozen factors I could chalk it up to (an earlier build, latency, unfamiliarity, lack of practice, fatigue, etc) so I'm not condemning it by any means, I was just really surprised with how poorly I played versus how much time I've put into the original.

With that said it looked and played amazing! Everything aside from the drifting/boosting mechanic felt wonderful – which is again why I'm alright giving the benefit of the doubt here. I have high hopes for the finished product :D
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,582
Spain
You have to learn optimal routes and adapt them on the fly based on what happens, on top of needing to nail the execution to optimize your time. It's by all means depth.
It is a nuisance that makes you can not play normally in a competitive manner, like the little steps that are in Smash Bros Melee.
 

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,447
San Diego County
It is not depth, it is a mechanic that forces you to play in a counterintuitive way. That something is complex does not make it depth.

I'd say it's perfectly intuitive. If there's an option to make you go faster that's pretty much always on the table but takes a little bit more engagement (or--dare I say it--skill) than holding a single button and going in a straight line, then I'm going to take that option.

I mean, that's pretty much how it went playing CTR through the years. I didn't look up guides on how to go faster, I just came to it naturally. And it's really not hard to do.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,582
Spain
I'd say it's perfectly intuitive. If there's an option to make you go faster that's pretty much always on the table but takes a little bit more engagement (or--dare I say it--skill) than holding a single button and going in a straight line, then I'm going to take that option.

I mean, that's pretty much how it went playing CTR through the years. I didn't look up guides on how to go faster, I just came to it naturally.
Then adding a QTE every time you throw an item, that also increases the engagement and requires "skill".
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,910
JP
I'd say it's perfectly intuitive.
I would say it's not. Having to drift on straight paths is not something you would ever think of if you were to play a racing game for the first time.

I say this as someone who is absolutely pro-snaking/sliding/whatever and I'll be snaking endlessly in this game :P
 

Sp1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
401
Crash was designed to be played like this, Mario Kart was not.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,318
I played CTR as a 5 year who wasn't good at games and I got the powersliding boost down fairly quickly

I still can't do snaking shit in mario kart so I'm not bragging about my skill. powerslide boosting is just easy. there should be no worries for casuals
 

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,447
San Diego County
Drifting in straights being faster than just driving straight isn't intuitive.
I would say it's not. Having to drift on straight paths is not something you would ever think of if you were to play a racing game for the first time.

So are you talking about intuitive enough to understand immediately upon starting the game (a bit of a weird ask in a genre as unrealistic as kart racing) or intuitive as in it follows fairly naturally once you understand the basic mechanics and have a feel for the game? A lot of folks demoing for the first time don't even know that drifting or hopping are in the game, so that base level intuitiveness is kind of hard to reach.

Then adding a QTE every time you throw an item, that also increases the engagement and requires "skill".

Maybe? The timing elements on the bowling bomb make it more interesting than some of the other items, so I guess it would depend on the implementation. But a lot of items already have inherent timing and aiming elements so another layer risks overdoing it. Driving in a straight line on the other hand is just a matter of holding a button, which is pretty boring if that's the skill ceiling.
 
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DatManOvaDer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,864
Powerslide boosting is pretty intuitive. No, you're not gonna think "I'm gonna do this on straights" right away. However, once you get the feel for it and have the mechanic down execution wise, you'll eventually start thinking of any moment you can do it. Its what I, and from what I see, a lot of other people did as a kid with no guide or anything.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,137
I think sonic racing have the same kind of drifting.

Team Sonic Racing is the time based drifting, the main skill is letting go of the drift when you hit full charge to get the most speed out of it. Crash also has timing, but you have to hit the boost just before the gauge maxes out, else you will get a Backfire and lose your boost, it's a much higher risk/reward system in Crash.

Then adding a QTE every time you throw an item, that also increases the engagement and requires "skill".

Lemme Guess, not a fan of Active Reload, Rocket Jumping or Last Hitting either?

Games sometimes have advanced mechanics for those that really want to go in depth with them. Sometimes intentional, sometimes not. In the modern day, if a game has an unintentional mechanic, it would get patched out (Like Fire Hopping in MK8) . This is an intentional mechanic, they even added a new Flame Spark graphic to showcase it and redesigned the Power Slide gauge to say "Perfect" if you timed the boost just right.

If you don't like it, fine enough. But it is an intended mechanic for playing the game. People will be using these techniques online. If that's a deal-breaker for you, I'm sorry. There will probably be a ranked system online, so you will probably get paired up with racers that won't use it. There is also a meaty adventure mode to play through where you will not need to use the mechanic at all to win. It was only ever required for the Oxide Times (Basically the best staff ghost times) in the original. Even the Platinum Relics in adventure didn't require mastery of it (That was more about hitting all the time crates in one clean run for the 10 second time bonus).
 
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Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,482
That could be really bad for people like me to want to race against other players on my level.

1) It's not as hard to do as it looks, nothing in the video was that fancy
2) I would expect that they'll be some form of skill based matchmaking
 
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Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
That could be really bad for people like me to want to race against other players on my level.
I was worried about that too.

The best case scenario is that the matchmaking will create essentially two classes of racers, casuals who playing it like Mario Kart, and those who know the system. Worst case scenario is that the matchmaking throws everyone together and casual gamers are mystified why some players are boosting into the horizon and are never seen again.

The GOOD news is that the karts still seem to move at a speed enjoyable enough for casuals.





Also, due to combining tracks from two previous games, we have a lot of simple yet beautiful tracks.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,300
It's why CTR is my favorite kart racer ever. The controls, mechanics and everything are just so fucking tight, it's perfection. And now with Nitro Fueled we're getting the same thing again, but with new content and modern graphics, no doubts it'll become my favorite kart racer ever.

Yep. Mario Kart is excellent, but CTR's control, specifically the drifting and turning control is unmatched. Allows you to just glide over every map.
 
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Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,482
Drifting in straights being faster than just driving straight isn't intuitive.

It's one of the reasons I stopped playing NFS HP 2010.

I mean, it's pretty intuitive once you learn that boosting increases your speed, and you get boost by drifitng. Therefore, drifitng as much as possible nets more speed.

Even in MK8, if the track is wide enough, top players will always be drifting or firehopping.

It's pretty similar in CTR, where you can burn safi fire on the straights instead of drifting.

But, I'd also say that the tracks are almost always full of turns. If you look at Sewer Speedway for example, there are no substantial 'straights' on the track. It's non-stop turns.



If you want a game that's focused on straight line speed and nailing that more traditional racing line then I think the game might not be for you, but I think the mechanics are a lot of fun if you delve into them.
 

fhqwhgads

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,536
The mechanics are why I'm so excited for the game, since Mario Kart has just gotten too stale for me. I know the mechanics inside and out, there's nothing left for me to learn, as well as generally coming to dislike how overpowered items are in the games. I get why it's the case, it has a low skill floor to be accessible, but I need something more and CTR is absolutely it. Granted it'l have the opposite effect, where people will no doubt get disheartened by the mechanics and get bodied easily, so it'll have it's own problems but at least it'll help scratch a much needed itch that other games aren't fulfilling.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

"This guy are sick"
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,889
USA
Good god seeing some of these high skill videos makes me remember how satisfying it was to climb up the skill ladder in the original CTR.

Nitro-Fueled is going to be glorious.
 

golguin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,759
I played a lot of CTR as a kid and knew how to drift and boost, but the best drifting and boosting feeling comes from Mario Kart DS. What people call "snaking" in Mario Kart DS is simply the ability to drift everything all the time with the only pause being a change in direction.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,104

Thanks for posting this. Looking at earlier videos I was a bit worried that they'd made major changes to the physics, it was so strange watching people go under the bridge on Crash Cove or treat the jump on Polar Pass as being a risky move. This video makes it clear that those aren't concerns.
 
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Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,482
I played a lot of CTR as a kid and knew how to drift and boost, but the best drifting and boosting feeling comes from Mario Kart DS. What people call "snaking" in Mario Kart DS is simply the ability to drift everything all the time with the only pause being a change in direction.

I mean, that's how CTR plays too. Drift everything, all the time, with the only pause being a change in direction...

I think CTR has a few of mechanics in its favour that MKDS lacks.

  • You get a boost for jumping, meaning you doing more than just snaking left to right across the entire track, often looking for bumps in the road and other angles to get lots of airtime. Airtime in MKDS actually slows you down, that's a bummer
  • The boosting in Crash Team Racing has a timing intensive mechanic that provides players varying reward down to an individual frame and feeds into the reserve system
  • Boosting in Crash Team Racing doesn't require you to mash left and right on the dpad/analog stick
 
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