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RedStep

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,655
Excuse me? This is a Playstation 4 game, sir. It isn't a job.
If you feel like it's work, that's on you. Jump off, and go do actual work.
If you can't take satisfaction from creating something and seeing other people enjoy it, that's not Sony's fault. Stop pretending you bought something that Sony never sold. They sold you a video game, they didn't hire you.

Be right back, I'm just finishing my latest race track for GTA V, and then I just have to send an invoice to Rockstar and I'm set!

Like I said, disengenuous. I made very clear I was only addressing taking that work and making an ad out of it. So none of what you said has anything to do with what I said. I don't think creators in general should be paid (the waters are too murky to navigate there), but crossing the line into recording it and playing it to get more sales is different territory.

I also made clear that, as a "free" artist, the recognition is the most important part, so a link to their work for interested parties could make everybody happy with no cash expended.

But keep building that strawman, it's coming along nicely.
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
that's not how it works. that's not how any of this works.

you don't sign a contract when playing dreams, you're not obligated to do anything you dont want.

it's a sandbox where u can create cool stuff and share it with others, that's all.
When I say that creators deserve to be compensated, I'm not saying Sony should literally be paying them for the work they do. It's not like the developers behind Unity are paying the developers who use their tool.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
It was uploaded to the Official Playstation Europe chanel 3 weeks ago. There is two more in the same style OP!





I think it's amazing. The creators need spotlight in the first place.

In those videos the creators are mentioned at the end of the video. Probably forgot to add for the Ruckus trailer.
 

Vimto

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,714
When I say that creators deserve to be compensated, I'm not saying Sony should literally be paying them for the work they do. It's not like the developers behind Unity are paying the developers who use their tool.

But they are not entitled to anything, they knew this.

Infact, Sony can delete their creations if they wish. you don't own anything in dreams lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,886
Mount Airy, MD
I'm curious how many of the people who keep insisting on this argument are making content in Dreams? If so, what are you making/have made? How do you feel you should be compensated?

Let's get this out of the hypothetical devil's advocate shit and have a concrete conversation about the logistics from someone actually making things about what they actually would like to see happen, if anything.
 

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
I'm curious how many of the people who keep insisting on this argument are making content in Dreams? If so, what are you making/have made? How do you feel you should be compensated?

Let's get this out of the hypothetical devil's advocate shit and have a concrete conversation about the logistics from someone actually making things about what they actually would like to see happen, if anything.

Funny fact : the only creator from ERA, at least that I saw, that had its creation on a Sony trailer was happy as hell on the OT.
 

Brodo Baggins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,033
First on topic: Ruckus is fantastic, an absolute joy to experience. The creators should be super proud of it.

Thread derail topic:
I don't think Dreams creators are owed anything, but for the continued longevity of the game I really hope they come up with a way to incentivize game creators. Either through a healthy patreon community or something direct from MM/Sony. Making a good game in Dreams is a ton of work, and I want the community to flourish. I just don't see people continuing to put put in the thousands of hours that takes for no reward. Right now almost all Dreams are on the tech demo scale, which is great for hopping in and out, but I don't think that's sustainable for a healthy long term community.
 

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201

It's not a game from MM.
Made by Heart Factory with collaboration of 4 dreamers and using content from another 4.
In total a collaborations of 9 dreamers.
Now imagine if one of those decided to lock their content on a paywall.

EDIT . HeartFactory is a MM employee LOL
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,522
Why does everything have to be some controversy? And why are you all trying to defend people who aren't even complaining about this? Just don't create in Dreams if that's an issue.
 
Last edited:

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
People are being purposely obtuse. It's not that a tool was used and so you're owed money by the tool maker (great analogies, definitely not disengenuous). It's that a content creator's free work is the ad for the product. With no credit that I can see (even checked the video details).

Ads are designed to make money. It's not the same as a nice spot on the Community page or something (where at least I'd know who made it). It's not saying "If you like Ruckus, here's who made it". It's saying "If you like Ruckus, play Dreams".

That's very different from a crayon analogy or whatever. If Crayola loved my art enough to make it their ad to sell more crayons, damn right I'd be getting paid or at least credited.

Something as simple as "Ruckus by _______" at the end would be a great way to promote your creators and still profit off their work. Don't know why anybody would disagree with that idea except warz.

About your concern on not giving the creator it's credits : the creator is a MM employee.
 

Era Uma Vez

Member
Feb 5, 2020
3,241
You could have figured out how in the time you spent building all of your strawmen.
You compared actual employees in an real company, doing real paid work to people playing this game like both groups share any similarities, to try and prove a point, and i'm "building strawman"?
That's funny. Also, since you dodged what is an easy answer, I assume you dont have one.
 

Sedated

Member
Apr 13, 2018
2,598
I dont see payment to creators argument in dreams subreddit. Everytime i read about it is here always... Seems more people not playing this are worried about it than people who do...

We've had lbp titles. We have Roblox, Minecraft. People like creating stuff and thats what they're doing here. If they really want to make money off it then they should be working on tools that are used as standard in the industry. The only other way to make money off it is if dreams have a Roblox plan of monetizing content so that creators could make money. Who knows what they will go with.
 

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
Gamers: MAN, wouldn't it be great if someone made a game maker on a console that didn't require knowledge of programming or 3D modeling?

Also Gamers: WHY ARE WE BEING EXPLOITED? PAY US FOR MAKING THESE GAMES IN THIS GAME MAKER.

C'mon. Are these real takes in here?

This become even funnier when prior to Dreams release there was a lot of discussions about "why would people invest their time on this when they could do it on Unity/UE and make money?" and now that people are investing time on it people still want to play others advocates who knows why.
It's so simple : if you are a creator and want to make money outta of it there are commercial tools out there, go use them.
Stop playing other people advocate role when they decide to make part of the dreamiverse for their own reasons.
 

sQr

Member
Jun 28, 2019
328
"Whether we allow people to do that outside of Dreams has been, actually, a big goal for the studio. It's something we would love to do. But we need to figure out the best way to support that. Obviously if it's published in the PlayStation store, we want it to be QA'd. We want trophies. There are all of these other elements. We'd love to do that kind of thing, but we don't currently have a way to do it.

[Allowing games to be sold] is something we've thought about. We haven't made any public announcements about any further monetization in Dreams, or that kind of system where people are getting tipped or getting paid for their content. We do want to encourage people to share. We're a platform for amateur creation and hobbyist creators. I'm sure there will be people who are more professional in it. But these are all things we're considering and thinking about."


Abbie Heppe, Communications Manager of Media Molecule

Source:VentureBeat
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
You compared actual employees in an real company, doing real paid work to people playing this game like both groups share any similarities, to try and prove a point, and i'm "building strawman"?
That's funny. Also, since you dodged what is an easy answer, I assume you dont have one.
I wonder if you actually played Dreams. When you start the main game Media Molecule made for it (Art's Dream), it starts right off by saying that it was made with the Dreams tools and that it's meant to be an example of what can be made with it. Media Molecule made it as clear as they possibly could have to everyone who plays their game and they used Dreams to make it. The same tools that were used for everyone else's creations.

But yeah, sure, people who use those tools are just playing video games. Keep on making that bad faith argument while at the same time downplaying what Dreams actually is.

Though it doesn't seem like you actually care, if you actually want an example of how creators could be compensated: look at Minecraft. It actually has a marketplace where creators can sell skins, worlds, and mini games that they made. Even Roblox has something similar.

Alternatively, it'd be feasible for creators to have a tip jar where people could choose to give them money. Or for models and music and such to be exported to PC so they can be used there.
 
Nov 2, 2018
1,952
Did you know the person that made a Ruckus didn't actually make the model of the main character? So even if they stuck on the name of creator who published it, it still wouldn't be giving full credit.

Crediting a Dream is actually a very complex piece of business because of the fundamental design of the tools.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,724
I dont see payment to creators argument in dreams subreddit. Everytime i read about it is here always... Seems more people not playing this are worried about it than people who do...
It's not what it seems that's exactly what's happening every dreams thread on here turns into this conversation but not a single soul be in the OT
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,257
I am actually very, very impressed with their website implementation. Damn.
The main "social" portion of it is great, but I was floored by the live tools you can access through the website when you're creating in Dreams on your PS4. Stuff like text entry, information about what you're working on etc.
 
Sep 23, 2018
1,089
I don't have an issue with this being used as marketing for Dreams in the slightest; as another poster said- when you start up the game you have the option of allowing Sony to use anything you create and publish publicly to be used in Sony Marketing.
I do have an issue with them not including the users name somewhere in the video ad.
 

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
I don't have an issue with this being used as marketing for Dreams in the slightest; as another poster said- when you start up the game you have the option of allowing Sony to use anything you create and publish publicly to be used in Sony Marketing.
I do have an issue with them not including the users name somewhere in the video ad.

Important point here : there were 3 games used on this context, 2 of them were made by regular users and the creator name was at the end of the trailer, Ruckus the one on this thread is made by a Media Molecule employee and doesn't have the creator name on it.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,496
I am actually very, very impressed with their website implementation. Damn.
Agreed. It's extremely well thought out and the ability to browse and share dreams while out is great. One tap to add to the play later queue and then when you play again you have a nice list to dive into. Fast, no hassle. Just works. Really knocked it out the park and 100% adds to the overall CX.
 

Falchion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,065
Boise
Ruckus was a ton of fun. I played it for my girlfriend to give her an idea of some of the stuff you can make in Dreams.