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Lumyst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
77
Most people are interpreting Act 3 as
The Luminary creating a whole new timeline by going back in time to right Mordegon's wrongs.

Ah, so people think
it's kind of like his powers of light + the record of memories transported him to a different time and space than the original reality, and those are actual people rather than records/replicas? When I saw that brief cutaway of the glowing piece of glass in the tower of time, I assumed he was "in" the glass, as in part of the same reality as Act 2.
 

Durden

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,511
It's kind of crazy how much more pleasant the DQVIII over world music is (I never played DQVIII). I don't despise XI's as much as some, but I kept it on for like close to 30 hours. The way the track is made it just gets exhausting. 8's though just glidddddes. Had it on for like over 10 hours now and it's still so nice.
 

Clara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25
Re: Act 3 discussion

I'm not sure if it's changed from DQXI at release, but Yuji Horii was pretty clear in interviews then that there were no multiple concurrent timelines involved. The Act 3 one is the only one going forward, and the echoes are the memories of the Act 2 timeline gradually converging into it. So there isn't supposed to be some other timeline floating around out there where your Act 2 buddies are living on without the Luminary.

Now how that jives with Serenica destroying the sphere, I don't think they actually thought about very hard. (My theory is that she was only borrowing the power of the Luminary to do it, but couldn't actually change reality herself the way the real Luminary could.) Either way, they fudged some of it to make it emotionally satisfying rather than logical.
 

Lumyst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
77
Re: Act 3 discussion

I'm not sure if it's changed from DQXI at release, but Yuji Horii was pretty clear in interviews then that there were no multiple concurrent timelines involved. The Act 3 one is the only one going forward, and the echoes are the memories of the Act 2 timeline gradually converging into it. So there isn't supposed to be some other timeline floating around out there where your Act 2 buddies are living on without the Luminary.

Now how that jives with Serenica destroying the sphere, I don't think they actually thought about very hard. (My theory is that she was only borrowing the power of the Luminary to do it, but couldn't actually change reality herself the way the real Luminary could.) Either way, they fudged some of it to make it emotionally satisfying rather than logical.

I guess I was thinking too hard about it, haha. What you say sounds like where everything flattens together rather than exist concurrently. If that's the case then Act 3 need not feel as unsettling as I was thinking. So the luminary would be creating the new present by bringing the past he wants to the actual present, rather than "traveling." Actually, come to think of it, it's been over a month so I forgot that in the Demo he pretty much influenced the present by communicating with his adopted father in the past, so it'd be like that and eventually he'd catch up to the present that he left from.
 
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Lumyst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
77
Maybe both exist as different stories assuming the green book is the one where Veronica dies.

RkYCFxF.png

Then that would mean that
Act 2 is the "Lost Time" that would be in one book, and Acts 1 and 3 would be the other. If the creator himself says there's one timeline then that saves me the headache of trying to overthink it, haha. So the Luminary would be teaming up with his past teammates to safely shepard the world to the present by paving over the events of Act 2, and the people who already went through act 2 would then be merging into the "new present." But the danger is that Calasmos could have thwarted that "safe passage" from happening. Everybody who made it through Act 2 has some sense of what they did then, and come to think of it, the people who should have been dead, like Grand Master Pang, actually do remember/sense that they are supposed to be dead in that relative point of time, but they'll get to be among the living in the present instead thanks to the hero.
 
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Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,853
Hey all, had some questions before I start:

How long is this game estimated to take to beat? Not 100% run.
Is the normal difficulty too easy? I would like a slight challenge, but not something that requires too much grinding or anything.

Thanks in advance.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,169
New York
The thing that's weird with the new timeline is all the characters have segmented memories in their subconscious of their Act 2 timeline selves. Are they really two separate realities or did they merge?
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,560
Hey all, had some questions before I start:

How long is this game estimated to take to beat? Not 100% run.
Is the normal difficulty too easy? I would like a slight challenge, but not something that requires too much grinding or anything.

Thanks in advance.

(1) ~100 hours, more or less, depending on how much content you do, and how much dialogue you go for.

(2) Yeah, if you want a challenge -- particularly before endgame -- you'll want to turn on the Stronger Enemies draconian modifier. You can do that on the naming screen, and you can turn it off at any time (though never back on).

Stronger Enemies can be completed without any grinding, you just have to employ strategy; buffs/debuffs are crucial. There's a fair bit of luck in some later boss encounters, too, it must be said... but nothing too painful. Just sometimes necessitates multiple tries.
 

Clara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25
The thing that's weird with the new timeline is all the characters have segmented memories in their subconscious of their Act 2 timeline selves. Are they really two separate realities or did they merge?
According to the scenario writer, they merge. There is only one reality and the Act 2 memories are coming through as echoes of that other time. This doesn't hold up exactly (with some of the above-mentioned plotholes) but that was the intent.

It's made extra confusing when a few of the party chats before you break the sphere have your friends talking about how they'll take care of things when you're gone, but again, it was more of a conceptual/emotional plot than a meticulously crafted one. Honestly, it's not worth thinking too hard about because they didn't really write it to hold up perfectly.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,853
(1) ~100 hours, more or less, depending on how much content you do, and how much dialogue you go for.

(2) Yeah, if you want a challenge -- particularly before endgame -- you'll want to turn on the Stronger Enemies draconian modifier. You can do that on the naming screen, and you can turn it off at any time (though never back on).

Stronger Enemies can be completed without any grinding, you just have to employ strategy; buffs/debuffs are crucial. There's a fair bit of luck in some later boss encounters, too, it must be said... but nothing too painful. Just sometimes necessitates multiple tries.

Thanks for taking the time to reply! 100 hours is a lot but..pretty open until Pokemon.

Without the Stronger Enemies modifier, is the game a total snoozefest? I guess my concern is if it's too easy I'll get bored, but then if it's too hard I'll get frustrated. If it's buff/debuff management ala Persona/SMT/etc then that's fine.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,169
New York
According to the scenario writer, they merge. There is only one reality and the Act 2 memories are coming through as echoes of that other time. This doesn't hold up exactly (with some of the above-mentioned plotholes) but that was the intent.

It's made extra confusing when a few of the party chats before you break the sphere have your friends talking about how they'll take care of things when you're gone, but again, it was more of a conceptual/emotional plot than a meticulously crafted one. Honestly, it's not worth thinking too hard about because they didn't really write it to hold up perfectly.

Another thing is Mordegon seeing the Calasmos Tockle at the end of their Act 3 battle in the castle and mentioning to the Hero he was not the first to alter time or something like that. Does that imply the DQ XI universe was altered numerous times in the past or Mordegon knowing Serenica goes back in time to save Erdwin from back when he was Morcant?
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,560
Thanks for taking the time to reply! 100 hours is a lot but..pretty open until Pokemon.

Without the Stronger Enemies modifier, is the game a total snoozefest? I guess my concern is if it's too easy I'll get bored, but then if it's too hard I'll get frustrated. If it's buff/debuff management ala Persona/SMT/etc then that's fine.

By all accounts, it's pretty breezy without Stronger Enemies, at least until postgame.

Buff and debuff management is the core of Stronger Enemies, yeah. Doesn't require anything more complex or esoteric, basically just keeping on top of equipment forging and using the correct buffs and debuffs for the fight. Once you get a full party, the difficulty's mostly fair 'til postgame.
 

Clara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25
Another thing is Mordegon seeing the Calasmos Tockle at the end of their Act 3 battle in the castle and mentioning to the Hero he was not the first to alter time or something like that. Does that imply the DQ XI universe was altered numerous times in the past or Mordegon knowing Serenica goes back in time to save Erdwin from back when he was Morcant?

Let me dig into my script to find the exact line:

"So be it... But do not think...that you are the only one who has...defied the flow of time..."

I think the implication here is that he's telling the Luminary that Calasmos also came back through with him (i.e. is the same one he's been seeing the whole game), not that Calasmos or anyone else altered time on a previous occasion. He's warning the Luminary to be wary of someone who has just as much knowledge as he does of the other timeline.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,169
New York
Let me dig into my script to find the exact line:

"So be it... But do not think...that you are the only one who has...defied the flow of time..."

I think the implication here is that he's telling the Luminary that Calasmos also came back through with him (i.e. is the same one he's been seeing the whole game), not that Calasmos or anyone else altered time on a previous occasion. He's warning the Luminary to be wary of someone who has just as much knowledge as he does of the other timeline.

Gotcha, I didn't think of taking it more literally like that. Makes more sense.
 

NeoBob688

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,648
I have gotten the boat and opened the flood gates.

I am supposed to go to help the mermaid, but if I go to another orb location, say Sniflheim, would I progress that instead?

In essence, is the game now open world in quest design or still same linear path?
 

Lord Vatek

Avenger
Jan 18, 2018
21,556
I have gotten the boat and opened the flood gates.

I am supposed to go to help the mermaid, but if I go to another orb location, say Sniflheim, would I progress that instead?

In essence, is the game now open world in quest design or still same linear path?
It's still mostly linear with some openness.

You need the magic key to get into Sniflheim and you need to go to Nautica in order to get to the academy and Phnom Nonh but after you get the magic key in Phnom Nonh, you could do Sniflheim before the Eerie Eyrie.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Another thing is Mordegon seeing the Calasmos Tockle at the end of their Act 3 battle in the castle and mentioning to the Hero he was not the first to alter time or something like that. Does that imply the DQ XI universe was altered numerous times in the past or Mordegon knowing Serenica goes back in time to save Erdwin from back when he was Morcant?

It's implied that Calasmos kinda hitched a ride on the Hero as he went back in time. You see him outside of the time tower (forget it's name) before you enter it.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,276
Rochester, New York
It's implied that Calasmos kinda hitched a ride on the Hero as he went back in time. You see him outside of the time tower (forget it's name) before you enter it.
So what's Act 1 original Calasmos doing while Act 2's is back in time doing his thing? Are there two now, or did they merge or did they just forget that there might be two?
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
So what's Act 1 original Calasmos doing while Act 2's is back in time doing his thing? Are there two now, or did they merge or did they just forget that there might be two?

Yeah who knows.

Again it's implied that the Hero merges with his old body when he goes back in time so you'd think it would be the same with Calasmos. But I feel like it's best just to not think about it

Like, why did Calasmos wait until Mordegon rose to power before trying to reclaim his body in the first place? What was he doing before the fall? Seems like a bit of a plot hole.
 

Barn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,137
Los Angeles
It's kind of crazy how much more pleasant the DQVIII over world music is (I never played DQVIII). I don't despise XI's as much as some, but I kept it on for like close to 30 hours. The way the track is made it just gets exhausting. 8's though just glidddddes. Had it on for like over 10 hours now and it's still so nice.

I'm glad you said this, because this is my feeling with both the overworld music and the town music in DQXI, and I'm only 17 hours in (loving just about everything else). I don't have much experience with Sugiyamia's music (other than the first Dragon Quest, which has an extremely pleasant overworld theme), but I'm finding those two themes kind of grating and unpleasant. It's like you have these nice interludes and then constant, blaring BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP. Calm the fuck down with the bombastic horns, dude, I'm just taking a fucking stroll here. The staggering lack of musical variety in such a fully featured, polished game doesn't help -- I get that this (apparent bigot) is their star name, but shit, hire some additional composers if he's only going to give you three tracks for a 150-hour game.

Maybe I'll try that DQVIII theme.
 

Deleted member 38050

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 10, 2018
706
Finally beat the (new) optional superboss last night. What an asshole! Feels impossible to beat without either grinding for stat seeds or just relying on Pep Pops and Yggdragon Blessing to get through it.

Still an incredible game. Playtime came in at 81 hours. Might start up a new game with all 8 Draconian settings on and see how far I get before I ragequit.
 
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Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Finally beat the (new) optional superboss last night. What an asshole! Feels impossible to beat without either grinding for stat seeds or just relying on Pep Pops and Yggdragon Blessing to get through it.

Still an incredible game. Playtime came in at 81 hours. Might start up a new game with all 8 Draconian settings on and see how far I get before I ragequit.

Did you manage to beat it without doing those things? I got demolished and 3 rounds in, even at level 99 with the best gear in the game.

I really can't think of any other way to beat him besides Yggdragon's blessing and pep pops, but that seems so boring.
 

Fanuilos

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,141
Just started Act 3 and all I can think of is

That yelling at the dinner table cat meme with the hero and mordegon. Who's gonna blink first?
 

Deleted member 38050

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 10, 2018
706
Did you manage to beat it without doing those things? I got demolished and 3 rounds in, even at level 99 with the best gear in the game.

I really can't think of any other way to beat him besides Yggdragon's blessing and pep pops, but that seems so boring.
Nope, I did exactly that. Yggdragon's Blessing, then stacking Oomphle on Erik and having him use Divide then Double Down for big damage. Wouldn't have been able to do it any other way I don't think- in the final phase when you're fighting both the bosses at once it was doing 7000 damage to both of them at the same time.
Managed to clear it in 45 turns, but it took a few wipes before I could pull it off. Still relied heavily on RNG. It's a bullshit fight, honestly.
 
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Deleted member 33571

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 17, 2017
907
I'm at the beginning of act 2 and thinking about dropping the harder enemies quest to get past this first boss.....I've been having fun with it so far and most of the bosses have been enjoyable to figure out and doable in just a couple tries, but having only 1 controllable character means there isn't a whole lot of trial and error I can do in this case and I kinda just wanna get past it since it like...not fun.
Will I be screwing myself out of any real challenge in the rest of act 2, or is this the point in the game where the difficulty starts to level out anyway?
 

Durden

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,511
I'm glad you said this, because this is my feeling with both the overworld music and the town music in DQXI, and I'm only 17 hours in (loving just about everything else). I don't have much experience with Sugiyamia's music (other than the first Dragon Quest, which has an extremely pleasant overworld theme), but I'm finding those two themes kind of grating and unpleasant. It's like you have these nice interludes and then constant, blaring BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP. Calm the fuck down with the bombastic horns, dude, I'm just taking a fucking stroll here. The staggering lack of musical variety in such a fully featured, polished game doesn't help -- I get that this (apparent bigot) is their star name, but shit, hire some additional composers if he's only going to give you three tracks for a 150-hour game.

Maybe I'll try that DQVIII theme.

I agree. I don't think the tracks are necessarily bad in 11, but the fact that they are so over used reeaalllly goes against their composition. It's exactly as you said. When you go out to the overworld after 20 or so hours and you know the first thing you're gonna hear is BUMBA DUMMMMM...DUMMM DUMMM DUMMMMM!!!!!! It's like fuck comon man. It gets to be almost like a bucket of cold water to the face after a while. Especially because most of the time I'm just wanting to chill and take it slow, but the music's like "GRAND FUCKINGGGGG ADVENTTUUREEE ALL THE TIMMMMMMEEE!!!".

If it was like in the first few areas and such and then shifted to something else it would have been fine. I think it's well suited to the beginning of an adventure. But when you realize it's supposed to go with you the rest of the game...jesus. Definitely switch to DQ8. I would recommend everyone does after a few hours. I'm the type that was sticking with the 11 theme because I wanted to play the game as intended from it's initial creation, but trust me, it's the right choice. 8's theme is not only just better arranged, but much more suited to hearing in a relaxed open world setting, and much more suited to be heard that fucking much.

I actually like the big city theme, but yeah by the time I got to like Octagonia which is a much different city from the rest and I realized it was still gonna use it, yeah it's disappointing and starts to become grating itself. The lack of variety in music in the game I definitely think is the weakest quality of the game. It has a tendency to bring it down in a real way unfortunately. It makes the songs that are there sound even worse than they are over time, and can make the entire package seem a little cheaper. I kind of legit feel bad for the PS4/Steam players now, knowing they not only had no escape from the overworld theme, but all of this music was in MIDI form. Man, my god. I bet that single handily turned some players off from sticking with the adventure. A shame too because the game is marvelous in every other respect imo.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Nope, I did exactly that. Yggdragon's Blessing, then stacking Oomphle on Erik and having him use Divide then Double Down for big damage. Wouldn't have been able to do it any other way I don't think- in the final phase when you're fighting both the bosses at once it was doing 7000 damage to both of them at the same time.
Managed to clear it in 45 turns, but it took a few wipes before I could pull it off. Still relied heavily on RNG. It's a bullshit fight, honestly.

Yeah I'm not exactly sure who thought that was a good idea. I'd prefer another additional Wheel of Harma trial or even something like a boss rush/gauntlet to a boss who's only really beatable by cheesing the game to make everyone constantly invincible.
 

Barn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,137
Los Angeles
Durden, funny you should say that, because Octagonia is exactly where I'm at right now, and that's where it's starting to hit. It just seems insane that these towns with incredibly diverse designs and populations and carefully written/voiced dialects don't have distinct music -- it's a gigantic missed opportunity (and I can't help but wonder if pandering to Sugiyama's celebrity is what resulted in this). Will definitely take ya'll's recommendation and try the VIII theme for the overworld, as I'd at least prefer something lower-key if I'm to deal with the repetition for the next 100-plus hours.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
So I started my pseudo-NG+ in 2D mode... Wow it's kind of incredible seeing the entire game in 2D right after playing the 3D version.

I actually might wind up playing through the entire thing all over again. With the benefit of starting at level 99 of course.
 

Durden

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,511
Durden, funny you should say that, because Octagonia is exactly where I'm at right now, and that's where it's starting to hit. It just seems insane that these towns with incredibly diverse designs and populations and carefully written/voiced dialects don't have distinct music -- it's a gigantic missed opportunity (and I can't help but wonder if pandering to Sugiyama's celebrity is what resulted in this). Will definitely take ya'll's recommendation and try the VIII theme for the overworld, as I'd at least prefer something lower-key if I'm to deal with the repetition for the next 100-plus hours.

I'm sure that it has to do with Sugiyama's celebrity and just raw tradition (which is especially important in Dragon Quest). That combined with the fact that I'm pretty sure he's pushing 90 now, and not only am I sure they were attached to the hip to him, but probably felt they couldn't work him too hard. Hence limited, less stellar work.

Like I said I don't hate the music in 11 as much as most (I actually still really love the standard battle theme), but there's no doubt that his previous work is better. Just switch to the DQ8 track for a taste. Truly beautiful arrangement that makes me feel so much more connected to the world I'm exploring and it's characters. The first 3 DQ games too I also love pretty much all the tracks. His age I think is legit starting to show through his music.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
so if Serenica broke the Sword of Light by smashing it into the Time Sphere, where did the Sword of Light sitting in Yggdrasil come from?

also while I'm here what is up with that Door of Departure lore-wise. literally just a one-way one-use portal to travel a few miles southeast
 

Deleted member 38050

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 10, 2018
706
Yeah I'm not exactly sure who thought that was a good idea. I'd prefer another additional Wheel of Harma trial or even something like a boss rush/gauntlet to a boss who's only really beatable by cheesing the game to make everyone constantly invincible.
Definitely agree. The new Harma trial was actually really fun to work out and use actual strategy to overcome- the new boss is just garbage. The reward for clearing it is also sort of underwhelming but then again, that's always the problem with superbosses like that, I guess.
 

Deleted member 32106

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 9, 2017
2,819
so if Serenica broke the Sword of Light by smashing it into the Time Sphere, where did the Sword of Light sitting in Yggdrasil come from?

also while I'm here what is up with that Door of Departure lore-wise. literally just a one-way one-use portal to travel a few miles southeast
My headcanon is she fails again
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,281
Well, finishing up some Act 3 Trials.

If anyone is wondering, spending 27 pearls to reforge a dirty magazine only nets you +4 Defense instead of +1. I mean, I guess it makes sense that putting a magazine in a hot forge isn't going to improve it.

So if I finish Durstan's trials, can I change my mind on picking who to marry or is it locked in once I pick? Cause I want the Recipe Book but I'm not sure if I want to commit yet.
 
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Kurtikeya

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,491
Mercifully, the hunt for shiny pokeymans was a breeze. I think being pepped up stacks with the Serendipity items but I'm not sure.

So if I finish Durstan's trials, can I change my mind on picking who to marry or is it locked in once I pick? Cause I want the Recipe Book but I'm not sure if I want to commit yet.

I would like to know this as well. Also,
Can the super seeds get duped using the time travel method or not?
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Well, finishing up some Act 3 Trials.

If anyone is wondering, spending 27 pearls to reforge a dirty magazine only nets you +4 Defense instead of +1. I mean, I guess it makes sense that putting a magazine in a hot forge isn't going to improve it.

So if I finish Durstan's trials, can I change my mind on picking who to marry or is it locked in once I pick? Cause I want the Recipe Book but I'm not sure if I want to commit yet.

Just FYI you do know you can check the enhanced +1,+2,+3 stats of an item by checking the items info, right? Just keep pressing Y and you'll get to the page with its enhancement info. You don't need to forge it to find out.