Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time

[M.Bluth]

Haven't seen the "finale" yet because I don't think it matters, even, but I did see the news about the next season.

Fuck this bullshit. It's bad enough that despite the wait, despite the shorter episode order, this season was a boring, soulless pile of trash. Now they're telling us they need two years to make 11 mediocre episodes? Maybe don't take the job if you can't deliver, because God knows it won't be worth the wait.

 

[Spectromixer]

Series 11 makes every season since 2005 look like an absolute masterpiece. Genuinely recommend revisiting old episodes you don't like, just to notice how much higher in baseline quality the scripting and characterisation was for 12 straight years. I watched In The Forest Of The Night the other day and had a great time.

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Hahahahaha

 

[PaulloDEC]

I quite enjoyed the finale. Not as explosive as we've come to expect, but good fun (and looked gorgeous).

No new season in 2019 is pretty disappointing though. It's hard to believe the BBC are unable to wrangle a regular schedule for one of their most successful and profitable properties, even when the episode count is lower than ever.

Season in review:

Liked a Lot
The Witchfinders
The Battle of Ranskoor av Kolos

Liked
The Ghost Monument
Demons of the Punjab
Kerblam!
Rosa

Wasn't Fussed
Arachnids in the UK
The Tsuranga Conundrum
It Takes You Away
The Woman Who Fell to Earth

 

[Hexxen-panda]

Never been so bummed at any Doctor Who-related thing like I've been with this finale.

I was really loving the second half of the series, but this episode feels very half-assed. You can really tell the drop in quality between last week and this one, and the thought of having CC as the head writer for another several years is making me really sad. Woman Who Fell to Earth and Ghost Monument were pretty good, imo but Tsuranga Conundrum (and probably this one) made me sad for days after it aired.

Just as another bummer, Christopher Eccleston has had more episodes in 3 months than Jodie Whitaker would have in the 2 years of being the Doctor.

 

[Htown]

still don't really get why BBC shows have such problems putting out episodes

is it just a funding thing?

pretty much any ongoing american show will put out 13 eps a year at minimum, with very few exceptions

 

[LL_Decitrig]

What is the suggested essential list of S11 episodes? I thought about watching Rosa, Kerblam, It takes you away and the finale.

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Demons of the Punjab is in my opinion a superb piece of writing brought to life with wit by a great cast. That it's an episode of Doctor Who is secondary to its importance as an accessible introduction to the post-colonial period of the subcontinent. I expect it will feature in the history syllabus for many a young child for decades to come. From now on, no introduction to this 55-year-old programme is complete without it.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I felt that as soon as the Rosa/Punjab hit the series hit its stride and I've liked the show consistently since then. Really enjoyed the finale.

 

[Mulciber]

Man, I wanted nothing more than to absolutely love this season. It's a shame that I couldn't. :( And this year gap is going to kill me.

I do like that they addressed the Doctor changing her rules in the finale. I know that I talked about that with some other people in this thread. Still, I wish this season were just...more. Just a bit better. I just hope that the new viewers who came in to see the Doctor as a woman enjoyed it. :) And I hope they stick around until 2020. We need to keep Jodie. She's great. And I'm really glad we still have Graham.

 

[Deleted member 39450]

still don't really get why BBC shows have such problems putting out episodes

is it just a funding thing?

pretty much any ongoing american show will put out 13 eps a year at minimum, with very few exceptions

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Pretty much, yes.

Actor salaries are significantly higher in the US, and if the show is popular enough, the cast don't need to constantly be looking for more work during a show's downtime.

The BBC usually can't afford to secure talent with long-term contracts that say when the talent can and can't work, so sometimes a show won't come back one year
simply because some of the cast weren't available at the same time.

 

[Halbrand]

I just watched the finale and I actually thought that was alright. It felt more like Doctor Who, there were some stakes, visually it looked great. I think the cinematographer was definitely imitating Blade Runner 2049 and it also reminded me of Star Trek 09.

Maybe I'm just happy it wasn't awful. I'd definitely rank it above everything this series except Rosa. It still suffers from some of the series' main issues - the Doctor gives way too much exposition when things should be moving faster, things are fixed too quickly. It probably would have been better as a two-parter. And it didn't really feel like a finale, the only character who feels like he's at the conclusion of some kind of arc here is Graham. The Doctor continues to be one of my least favourite parts of these episodes.

Liked Graham's "Yipikayee" moment and 13 referencing Slitheens and Journey's End.

It wasn't fantastic, but I think the general feeling would be much more positive if BBC didn't announce on the same day that Series 12 is delayed until 2020.

Still going to have to rank it last among the finales.

1. S9: Face the Raven / Heaven Sent / Hell Bent
2. S5: The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang
3. S1: The Parting of the Ways
4. S2: Army of Ghosts / Doomsday
5. S10: World Enough and Time / The Doctor Falls
6. S8: Dark Water / Death in Heaven
7. S4: The Stolen Earth / Journey's End
8. S6: The Wedding of River Song
9. S7: The Name of the Doctor
10. S3: Utopia / The Sound of Drums / Last of the Time Lords
11. S11: The Battle of Ranskoor av Kolos

 

[Worthintendo]

Remember back in the old days of New Who, when you got 4 full seasons in a row, along with 3 seasons of Torchwood. And even when they had a break year we'd still get like 3 specials just to carry us through that year before we got another 2 more years of solid full seasons before things started going funky with half seasons and then skip years.

At this point I'd gladly just take a half year or maybe some specials throughout the year :(

 

[Riversands]

I wonder if you realized this, but the soundtrack is very good. I think it falls into ambient genre. All of the tracks remind me so much of detroit: become human. They are so melancholic, dramatic, and touching.

 

[Halbrand]

It's always so weird how these episodes end. It doesn't feel like a natural end point, they just cut to credits.

 

[Kino]

I really enjoyed the episode, but it felt like a mid season 2 parter rather than a finale.

 

[CommodoreKong]

A pretty mediocre ending to a season that's largely been mediocre.

I really hope we're getting a gap year because they're replacing Chibnall with another showrunner. I was really worried when he was announced as showrunner since he never wrote a great episode of Who. This season made it pretty clear he wasn't up to the task. RTD and Moffat both has their issues but Chibnall didn't even come close this season.

 

[MrKlaw]

I felt that as soon as the Rosa/Punjab hit the series hit its stride and I've liked the show consistently since then. Really enjoyed the finale.

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Same. Until Rosa it was pretty poor but then found a groove that lasted for most of the season - not so sure about the finale though.

 

[Punpun]

Well, the finale was disappointing as well. Weakest series in modern Doctor Who for me, sadly. Loved the nice intro and the new Tardis and Jodie as The Doctor was fresh and interesting, but the episodes themselves were just bad in my opinion.
Really didn't like this series at all except for Demons of the Punjab and Kerblam... Hoping Series 12 in 2020 will be much better.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Same. Until Rosa it was pretty poor but then found a groove that lasted for most of the season - not so sure about the finale though.

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I thought Rosa was really the only standout episode this season. Easily up their with Vincent and the Doctor as the best of the historical episodes of the new series.

 

[Rabid-Coot]

Maybe extended gaps are going to be the new normal, it does seem to be happening with more shows.

 

[Deleted member 543]

The gap is what 16 months? It's not that bad and about the same as Capaldi's first two series. It would be nice to have a full series every 12 months, but we haven't had that in over a decade.

As for the quality of the show, being disappointed with and occasionally satisfied by Doctor Who has been the norm since 2005. I don't think the quality is down much on an episode-by-episode basis, but without a story arc the mediocre and outright bad episodes are much more of a slog. This year I enjoyed Demons of the Punjab and The Woman Who Fell to Earth. I appreciate Rosa for what it did to educate younger viewers. The rest were a big load of meh.

 

[ClivePwned]

extended gaps haven't dramatically increased the quality of the show.

 

[Nikus]

I liked the finale. Small overarching story, and I don't mind it. Only new villains and characters, liked that too. Not only Tim Shaw, I liked the Ux too. I only really like half of the season, but that's the good thing with Who, the fact that I didn't absolutely loved it doesn't mean that it's dead or anything, it can always come back stronger. And obviously a lot of people liked it, given the ratings, and I'm glad for that. I want more of Jodie and the fam, hopefully with stronger and more coherent writing, but I'll be here for season 12.
I hope we don't all fall down into despair and shit talking about the show for the coming year though :/

 

[ClivePwned]

I hope we don't all fall down into despair and shit talking about the show for the coming year though :/

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so, you're new to the internet?

 

[Xagarath]

The gap is what 16 months? It's not that bad and about the same as Capaldi's first two series. It would be nice to have a full series every 12 months, but we haven't had that in over a decade.

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Maybe less. "early 2020" could mean January/February - it'll be 16 months at the longest.

From everything I've heard, the pressures put on producing the 2005-2008 seasons regularly was absolute murder on the showrunner, and it's probably why we've had production breaks, midseries gaps or inconsistent airing schedules ever since.
The pressure of making the show can't really be compared to Classic Who (where you had several-episode serials using the same sets and characters, needing only 4-6 story scripts a year) or most US dramas (which use largely the same sets and casts of characters episode to episode). The circumstances of needing a new story concept, supporting characters, sets, props and effects every single episode is unique to New Who, and although I'm disappointed by the delay for next series I'm also not especially surprised.

 

[Nikus]

so, you're new to the internet?

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I try to remain hopeful, as the Doctor said :(

 

[milamber182]

Good finale but not great and the New Years promotion spoiled that nothing would happen to the companions so that took away some tension. The season has been pretty consistent with nothing bad, IMO, but also only a few standouts (the historicals mostly). The writing for the non-historicals could be stronger next season. And give Yas more to do!

My rankings for the season. Loved the Top 4 and everything below that was pretty close in quality so they were hard to rank.

1. Demons of the Punjab
2. Rosa
3. It Takes You away
4. The Witchfinders
5. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos
6. Kerblam!
7. The Tsuranga Conundrum
8. The Woman Who Fell to Earth
9. Arachnids in the UK
10. The Ghost Monument

 

[milamber182]

Maybe less. "early 2020" could mean January/February - it'll be 16 months at the longest.

From everything I've heard, the pressures put on producing the 2005-2008 seasons regularly was absolute murder on the showrunner, and it's probably why we've had production breaks, midseries gaps or inconsistent airing schedules ever since.
The pressure of making the show can't really be compared to Classic Who (where you had several-episode serials using the same sets and characters, needing only 4-6 story scripts a year) or most US dramas (which use largely the same sets and casts of characters episode to episode). The circumstances of needing a new story concept, supporting characters, sets, props and effects every single episode is unique to New Who, and although I'm disappointed by the delay for next series I'm also not especially surprised.

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The best comparison I can think of between Doctor Who and a US show is with Supernatural.

Similarities - Both long running shows with few primary actors and different guest cast and story each week (except for the occasional multi-part story). Both SFX heavy. Similar running time for episodes.

Differences - Supernatural favors live locations over set-building. Supernatural has 23 episodes per season compared to Doctor Who's 11 this season. Supernatural is on a smaller network with consistently good ratings for that network (1.54m overnight last week similar to what Doctor Who gets on BBC America) and has been on TV for 14 years straight. Doctor Who is a flagship show for a major network pulling in 5-6m overnight and will only be seen on TV once next year with no change in showrunner or primary actors.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Fuu]

2020, goddamn. That's just sad, and I haven't even started watching this season yet.

I'd rather they didn't say anything, then by mid-2019 just say it would come back next year. Why would you be in a rush to announce such a long gap?

 

[Spinky]

I kinda get the feeling that Jodie could end up being this generations Colin Baker, good actor in the role hampered by some not well written episodes (with a dash of too many people in the Tardis ala Peter Davidson's first season). If the next season is as average as this one she's really not going to be fondly looked back on.

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Lol, she already has plenty of fans. Especially with the "younger" crowd.

 

[Dwebble]

Russell T. Davies is a television-making mutant. It's almost not fair to expect anyone else to emulate that- read The Writer's Tale to see how a relatively problem-free series nearly killed him (oh, to have a version of that book written during Series 1 or 3, or from Moffat for any of the Smith series!).

 

[BGBW]

I didn't even realise this was meant to be the final episode until the end lol

I suppose there's no rule that the final episode has to be bombastic, but at the same time this just felt like a regular episode with the exception it had a baddy from a previous episode. Maybe they're saving it for the Christmas episode since it's so close.

 

[Xagarath]

The best comparison I can think of between Doctor Who and a US show is with Supernatural.

Similarities - Both long running shows with few primary actors and different guest cast and story each week (except for the occasional multi-part story). Both SFX heavy. Similar running time for episodes.

Differences - Supernatural favors live locations over set-building. Supernatural has 23 episodes per season compared to Doctor Who's 11 this season. Supernatural is on a smaller network with consistently good ratings for that network (1.54m overnight last week similar to what Doctor Who gets on BBC America) and has been on TV for 14 years straight. Doctor Who is a flagship show for a major network pulling in 5-6m overnight and will only be seen on TV once next year with no change in showrunner or primary actors.

Make of that what you will.

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It's a fair comparison.
I've only seen season 1-5 of Supernatural, but it seemed significantly less effects- and production-heavy than Dr Who (although admittedly on a relatively smaller budget); and although it also had new stories weekly, most episodes fell within a much narrower genre window (horror or horror-comedy), meaning I'd imagine they'd impose less of a burden on the writers.

 

[Lynd]

Finale was ok, wasn't super great. Last week's ep was better.

Sadly this season hasn't been that interesting, currently it's probably my least favorite season of New Who.

 

[Metallix87]

Lol, she already has plenty of fans. Especially with the "younger" crowd.

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Sure, and it's likely Colin Baker has "plenty" of fans, too.

 

[milamber182]

Sure, and it's likely Colin Baker has "plenty" of fans, too.

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It's like Peter Davison having to follow Tom Baker's act or more recently Matt Smith having to fill Tenant's insanely popular shoes (and how the fanboys/fangirls moaned at that casting LOL). Jodie has done fine and I'm sure she'll be even better next season.

 

[obin_gam]

I found myself on my phone half the time during ep 10... that cant be good...

 

[Gareth]

I didn't even realise this was meant to be the final episode until the end lol

I suppose there's no rule that the final episode has to be bombastic, but at the same time this just felt like a regular episode with the exception it had a baddy from a previous episode. Maybe they're saving it for the Christmas episode since it's so close.

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Yeah it didn't feel like a finale to me either, more like a second part of a series 9-esque two parter/linked episode, with the first episode of the series being the first part.

 

[Dwebble]

Comparing Jodie to Colin is completely insane. Jodie's the lead in a very popular series that's constantly in the upper echelons of the charts, whereas Colin was in post for disastrous ratings and the near-cancellation of the show.

You might not like this series, but let's get a bit of perspective!

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Maybe less. "early 2020" could mean January/February - it'll be 16 months at the longest.

From everything I've heard, the pressures put on producing the 2005-2008 seasons regularly was absolute murder on the showrunner, and it's probably why we've had production breaks, midseries gaps or inconsistent airing schedules ever since.
The pressure of making the show can't really be compared to Classic Who (where you had several-episode serials using the same sets and characters, needing only 4-6 story scripts a year) or most US dramas (which use largely the same sets and casts of characters episode to episode). The circumstances of needing a new story concept, supporting characters, sets, props and effects every single episode is unique to New Who, and although I'm disappointed by the delay for next series I'm also not especially surprised.

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But surely "making 10-13 unique episodes with lots of SFX and unique casts, shooting locations and sets is incredibly difficult and expensive" is an argument for a rethink of that approach and the way the show is produced? Is there some compelling reason why we shouldn't have a few episodes/stories a series that don't require time-consuming and expensive SFX? Or a couple of two-parters that can bulk out the series without adding the significant expense of a brand-new story?

I love The Horror of Fang Rock and would be delighted to see one or two more stories like that per series, alongside the bigger, more SFX-heavy stuff - something more limited and self-contained, with one or two actors alongside the usual TARDIS crew and a focus on atmosphere and dialogue over action. Hell, for a more recent idea, look at Blink. Making it Doctor-lite allowed another episode to be filmed simultaneously, it re-used an existing story idea, was relatively limited in terms of cast/filming locations, and the largely-practical SFX would have been costly, but not as much as a new episode with practical/CGI. A Doctor-lite episode in this series, particularly with the larger TARDIS crew, would have been a great idea, and it could have been paired with a Doctor-only episode that wasn't as expansive or expensive as some of the full episodes and given Jodie room to be the Doctor without having to fit in around three other main characters.

 

[Kalnet]

I honestly didn't enjoy this season as much unfortunately. It felt like the series ended quick. Maybe it's cause I've been waiting for it to be good. The episodes I truly enjoyed this season was:

- Rosa
- Demons of the Punjab
- The Witchfinders
- It Takes You Away

The finale was just ok. It only felt like a mid-season story thingy to me. I do hope the new year episode will be able to wrap up this entire season with a neat bowtie since we won't be getting another season until early 2020.

I hope Chibnall and his crew will have a better over-arching arc in the next season or at least tease it in the new year episode.

 

[Hamchan]

It was perhaps halfway through this episode that I thought: "this is bad".

It just didn't vibe with me at all. Tim Shaw is such a shit villain.

EDIT: And that 2020 news is such a bummer. This is the most sporadic show I've ever watched and I don't blame people for eventually just falling off the fandom and forgetting about the show when the releases are like this.

 

[Gareth]

Tim Shaw is such a shit villain.

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The Doctor's greatest enemies! Daleks, Davros, Cybermen, The Master, and now: Tim fucking Shaw! He puts teeth in his face!

 

[Blader]

I don't mind Tim Shaw at all but he is a confusing character... why would killing just one random crane operator on Earth make him the leader of the Stenza? Why did the Ux worship him as a god (especially when he doesn't seem to have any real powers or abilities that would look godlike)?

 

[Easy_D]

This felt more like a mid season follow-up episode than a finale. Literally nothing important happened apart from Grace dying. No hard decisions to be made whatsoever this episode either. Which kind of makes no narrative sense. Doctor goes on about never taking a life, is presented with a situation where the life of the many goes before the few and just sonics the problem away lmao.

I really hope the next season has an overarching plot. And better scripts. I did like several of the episodes but many felt like filler. I don't understand how this dude ran Torchwood, which apart from some ultra clunkers like Cyberwoman was super gripping while retaining that charming cheese factor which is missing entirely here.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

They're really taking a year off already? Christ, Chibnall. I realize it's British TV and audiences are used to getting like four episodes and then a hiatus that lasts three years, but come on.

This is not the way you follow up on a super popular season.

 

[Baroque]

I don't mind Tim Shaw at all but he is a confusing character... why would killing just one random crane operator on Earth make him the leader of the Stenza? Why did the Ux worship him as a god (especially when he doesn't seem to have any real powers or abilities that would look godlike)?

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The Stenza like hunting and Tim was supposed to hunt the dude Naked Snake style. Procure on-site. If he could hunt some random human with no tech at all he would have proven to the Stenza that he's strong and resourceful and all that crap. But Tim Shaw is a dirty little cheater so he fucked up. As for the Ux, they were two space churchies who had never left the planet and who had presumably never seen people with teleport tech and guns and stuff. It's like if one of those undiscovered native people's tribes was showed an iPhone.They'd be freaking out and think you were some sort of magic man. Except instead of filling up Tim Shaw's body with arrows like that one missionary dude recently, the Ux are a bunch of pacifists so they made him their God.

 

[milamber182]

They're really taking a year off already? Christ, Chibnall. I realize it's British TV and audiences are used to getting like four episodes and then a hiatus that lasts three years, but come on.

This is not the way you follow up on a super popular season.

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I wouldn't be so confident it was Chibnall's choice. He buck stops with his bosses at the BBC. It would have to be a damn good reason for them to agree given that this season has been a ratings success.

 

[Xagarath]

The Guardian's series panel has a good mix of opinions:
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...n-jodie-whittakers-first-series-of-doctor-who

 

[Deleted member 9135]

2020 is sad news, Christ. That sucks for fans.

 

[Dwebble]

I suspect series 12 might be getting a slightly different slot for series 12- still Sundays, but away from the Countryfile/Strictly junction (hence 2020).

The slot's done well for the show, but it's knocked both Countryfile and Strictly on Sundays- I think the BBC might try and have their cake and eat it by going back to the old Sunday schedule next autumn and running Who next to something like Call The Midwife in January/February 2020.