User banned (permanent): Inflammatory, inappropriate, and insulting commentary over a series of posts
I understand the thread title probably touches a nerve for many, but it's the best way I know how to put it. Hear me out, please. First, disclaimers:
First, I believe that Trump's presidency and all the things he has done and said during his time in office have seemingly made a lot more people aware, interested, and involved in politics. I think his time in power has helped to make a lot of people be less complacent about what goes on in politics and the world in general. I believe he has radicalized a lot of people in opposition to him. Seeing marches and protests and discourse go on that I never really saw before under other similarly awful Republican presidents made me believe that all of Trump's bad may have been met with some positive outcomes on the opposing side.
Second, seeing what is happening now with Trump's tantrum over losing re-election is what really has me thinking there might be an argument to be made here. If he can drag enough of his red hat army down with his sinking ship, if he can fracture the Republican Party into something that is irreparable or less harmful, I think there's also an end positive to that. And I think it's likely, though not guaranteed.
So with those two big points, do you believe there is any argument to be made that ultimately, weighing the positive outcomes with the negative ones, that there is some "cosmic balance" that puts Trump's presidency as a net positive?
Again, I'm not even sure if I myself believe this. I typically don't subscribe to the kind of utilitarian ethics that says 10 points of good "outweighs" 9 points of bad. I don't think you can really put a value on the human cost of what Trump has done. But I feel like there are some people out there who might believe this is possible on some really long timescale, especially if the negative effects Trump's implosion might have on the GOP prove to be significant and long-lasting.
Maybe it's not a simple yes or no and the answer is way more complicated than that. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.
- Trump is bad. He's an awful human and definitely in the running for the worst president we've ever had. He has no redeeming qualities. I hate everything he's done. I hate him as a person. I understand that he has hurt people and put people in danger and gotten people killed through action and inaction. I cannot state enough how much I absolutely loathe him and everything he stands for. This is not a "is Trump secretly good????" thread. It's a thread about the real-world outcomes of what comes in the wake of Trump's unquestionable badness.
- I'm not even sure I myself would argue strongly in favor of what I'm proposing in this thread. It may be too early to tell if any of this is true, and it's probably impossible to do the calculus on the ultimate harm versus good, even if you believe in that kind of moral and ethical approach to the world. Some of this is based on feeling and is impossible to really measure.
First, I believe that Trump's presidency and all the things he has done and said during his time in office have seemingly made a lot more people aware, interested, and involved in politics. I think his time in power has helped to make a lot of people be less complacent about what goes on in politics and the world in general. I believe he has radicalized a lot of people in opposition to him. Seeing marches and protests and discourse go on that I never really saw before under other similarly awful Republican presidents made me believe that all of Trump's bad may have been met with some positive outcomes on the opposing side.
Second, seeing what is happening now with Trump's tantrum over losing re-election is what really has me thinking there might be an argument to be made here. If he can drag enough of his red hat army down with his sinking ship, if he can fracture the Republican Party into something that is irreparable or less harmful, I think there's also an end positive to that. And I think it's likely, though not guaranteed.
So with those two big points, do you believe there is any argument to be made that ultimately, weighing the positive outcomes with the negative ones, that there is some "cosmic balance" that puts Trump's presidency as a net positive?
Again, I'm not even sure if I myself believe this. I typically don't subscribe to the kind of utilitarian ethics that says 10 points of good "outweighs" 9 points of bad. I don't think you can really put a value on the human cost of what Trump has done. But I feel like there are some people out there who might believe this is possible on some really long timescale, especially if the negative effects Trump's implosion might have on the GOP prove to be significant and long-lasting.
Maybe it's not a simple yes or no and the answer is way more complicated than that. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.