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Do you say "he" or "she" when talking about Sheik?
- Thread starter Fudgepuppy
- Start date
Ah, thank you. I don't remember that at all. So I'm on board with "he" then.
just as a general rule of thumb in my life, unless I have see he/him or she/her pronouns used explicitly in a context, I usually defer to using they/them. this applies IRL and in video games too.
I have never really assigned a pronoun to Sheik, I usually just call them by their name lol
I have never really assigned a pronoun to Sheik, I usually just call them by their name lol
Hahahaha. I also had no idea who Sheik is. I did not vote.
I initially hit "she", but then remembered that I used to argue for "he". So I guess I don't care anymore. But if I'd be hard pressed, Sheik is canonically presenting as a man, it's a male alter ego. Nintendo at times danced around this question by not using pronouns, but most often, I think, they refer to "her".
It's also relevant that I think of Sheik mostly in Smash context where the character has been separated from the Zelda character for the last two iterations.
As they're pretty androgynous nowadays, "they" is probably the best fit.
It's also relevant that I think of Sheik mostly in Smash context where the character has been separated from the Zelda character for the last two iterations.
As they're pretty androgynous nowadays, "they" is probably the best fit.
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i think i knew at the time that it was Zelda, so probably she, but i don't think i ever talked about Sheik in a way that i'd use pronouns tbh
at least i don't remember talking about them online and i don't about games irl
at least i don't remember talking about them online and i don't about games irl
OP
OP
Didn't play enough of OoT or any other Zelda games to actually meet Sheik, but I always assumed Sheik was a girl?
Maybe my memory is failing me, but even playing for the first time I don't remember the game being particularly ambiguous about the fact that she was a woman.
1) in the original n64 artwork clearly zelda adopted a male persona full with muscles and broad shoulders.
She clearly got a male body using magic, therefore we go by the "drag queen rule" and call the male persona by male pronoums and the female persona by female pronoums.
2) so you don't spoil a big twist in one of the best games for the people who managed to not get spoiled otherwise, since the game uses he pronoums to Sheik
3) i saw once a person argue that the sheikah simbols, the name sheik and other stuff (like how the Majora's masks works) be an implication that zelda takes the form of someone who actually existed once using sheikah magic
It's not a perfect analogy but I view this in the same general lens as with real-life people in drag: in those cases the alter-ego actually uses specific pronouns which can be independent of the performer's actual gender identity.
So if a man is in drag as a feminine persona you would often use she/her pronouns while in the persona.
So I think my brain just naturally maps the same situation here and I'd go with he/him.
So if a man is in drag as a feminine persona you would often use she/her pronouns while in the persona.
So I think my brain just naturally maps the same situation here and I'd go with he/him.
I don't think Sheik ever identified as anything, right?
Given that it's a disguise and not an expression of personal identity (in fact, its sole purpose is to hide personal identity) it seems appropriate to go with Zelda's undisguised identity.
The comparisons to drag don't really match, imo. This is much more like witness protection - once it's over, it doesn't make much sense to treat the disguise as their identity.
It doesn't reflect who they are, it completely conceals it because being authentic would get them killed.
Given that it's a disguise and not an expression of personal identity (in fact, its sole purpose is to hide personal identity) it seems appropriate to go with Zelda's undisguised identity.
The comparisons to drag don't really match, imo. This is much more like witness protection - once it's over, it doesn't make much sense to treat the disguise as their identity.
It doesn't reflect who they are, it completely conceals it because being authentic would get them killed.
So are you one of those people that WOULD RAT ZELDA OUT TO GANONDORF ?
I've had this debate more times than I care to admit. Sheik is a guy.
It's a magical transformation, not just a costume. Not to mention there's a specific persona in there even if it was just a disguise - Zelda intended to disguise herself as a boy. So the "character" that is Sheik is a guy even if it's a girl disguised as a guy.
It's a magical transformation, not just a costume. Not to mention there's a specific persona in there even if it was just a disguise - Zelda intended to disguise herself as a boy. So the "character" that is Sheik is a guy even if it's a girl disguised as a guy.
Does anyone acknowledge Sheik throughout the game? Some folks here saying that he's referred to by other people, but I don't remember that at all.
It's Zelda in disguise to throw off Ganondorf and help Link. It doesn't have to go any deeper than that.
It's Zelda in disguise to throw off Ganondorf and help Link. It doesn't have to go any deeper than that.
All I know is that this thread is making me want to play OoT again. Last time I stopped right at ganon's castle.
For real, I think he until the reveal and then maybe she afterwards but don't really know or have enough sample size to know what I defaulted to. Sheik always struck me as a disguise for Zelda rather than her identifying as male, but that might be my own ignorance.
For real, I think he until the reveal and then maybe she afterwards but don't really know or have enough sample size to know what I defaulted to. Sheik always struck me as a disguise for Zelda rather than her identifying as male, but that might be my own ignorance.
My first exposure to OoT was the artwork, which (although his face was covered) showed Sheik as having clearly defined pectoral muscles that weren't hiding any boobs (and Zelda appears to have boobs), along with more muscle than Zelda (although still kinda slim), and clearly different eye/skin/hair colors, so I concluded that "Sheik" goes far beyond a simple "disguise".
My headcanon was (after it was revealed that Sheik was Zelda in disguise), that Impa had arranged for Zelda to channel the spirit of a dead Shekiah boy. Anime/manga had taught me that when you channel someone, you can temporarily take their form.
So Zelda is female, and Sheik isn't just a pseudonym, they're a ghost, and a character, a male ninja character. While Zelda is channeling Sheik, they have a female body that temporarily happens to be in male form. Sheik-Zelda has two consciousnesses inside of their shared body, and the driver of that body could be Sheik, or Zelda, or it could be teamwork, or the balance could shift from moment-to-moment.
In this case, the Sheik inside of Zelda would be male. The Zelda inside of Sheik is female. It depends on who you're talking to. One could say "them" to refer to the two of them in one stroke, but the two of them do have individual (and different) genders.
My headcanon was (after it was revealed that Sheik was Zelda in disguise), that Impa had arranged for Zelda to channel the spirit of a dead Shekiah boy. Anime/manga had taught me that when you channel someone, you can temporarily take their form.
So Zelda is female, and Sheik isn't just a pseudonym, they're a ghost, and a character, a male ninja character. While Zelda is channeling Sheik, they have a female body that temporarily happens to be in male form. Sheik-Zelda has two consciousnesses inside of their shared body, and the driver of that body could be Sheik, or Zelda, or it could be teamwork, or the balance could shift from moment-to-moment.
In this case, the Sheik inside of Zelda would be male. The Zelda inside of Sheik is female. It depends on who you're talking to. One could say "them" to refer to the two of them in one stroke, but the two of them do have individual (and different) genders.
Ruto did, that's it.
Only one character mentions Sheik's gender throughout the entire game, and said character actually uses a gender-neutral term in the original Japanese script. The closest thing we have for gender expression is Sheik using the Japanese pronoun "boku", which is generally, but not exclusively, used by males.
In the grand scheme of things, yeah, pretty much.
Sheik seems like a Samus situation where the character's appearance is androgynous and marketing and other characters used masculine pronouns to further obfuscate their true identity but they themselves never identify as male. I don't think the point of the disguise was to become male, but to become ambiguous.
Yeah. It's a fairly popular trope in Japanese fiction, really.
Look. Some of us were just blessed with gorgeous eyelashes irrespective of our sex or gender. I can't help that I'm god damn stunning.
When I was a kid, I thought Sheik was a guy, so I used the he pronouns. That's until I learned Sheik is Zelda in disguise, which was when I changed the pronouns to she. I'm a progressive guy, you see.
I can't imagine anyone outside of the story itself calling Mulan he/him. Even in extreme cases like shape shifters like Mystique, I'd still use she/her.
hahaha I'm jealous my son is 8 he has gorgeous lashes as well :D
Sheik is a role that Zelda created, with a very muscular build that hides her chest, hair and jawline. So I always refer to Sheik as a He as the disguise is meant to fool us into thinking Zelda is a man.
If I said "she" it would be referering directly to Zelda as a whole, like "Zelda in her Sheik disguise/role".
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In the context of Ocarina at least, the only purpose of Sheik is to hide Zelda's appearance, so we never see her use him afterwards. I see it in the same way as Ping from Mulan. Ping is a man because that's the role it's supposed to represent. But as soon as the reveal happens, Mulan never has the need to use Ping's name or mannerisms ever again, instead using her new skills as a warrior in the form that she's more comfortable with: Mulan.
Smash Bros sort of gives the image of a Zelda that changes freely between forms all the time to serve her need, so Sheik's purpose stops being "hiding her identity" and instead becomes "allowing Zelda to use cool ninja moves" so I can understand why people would say that there's no point in calling Sheik a He in Smash, as he acts more as a "form" for her than a persona.
If Ocarina's storyline were to continue, I wouldn't be surpised at all to see an older Zelda that mixes her ninja skills with magic without the need of the Sheik disguise. Because you don't need the sheik persona just to get some trousers and muscles.
If I said "she" it would be referering directly to Zelda as a whole, like "Zelda in her Sheik disguise/role".
I'd say in average men have longer natural eyelashes. If anything becase makeup can deteriorate them and they use it far less.
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In the context of Ocarina at least, the only purpose of Sheik is to hide Zelda's appearance, so we never see her use him afterwards. I see it in the same way as Ping from Mulan. Ping is a man because that's the role it's supposed to represent. But as soon as the reveal happens, Mulan never has the need to use Ping's name or mannerisms ever again, instead using her new skills as a warrior in the form that she's more comfortable with: Mulan.
Smash Bros sort of gives the image of a Zelda that changes freely between forms all the time to serve her need, so Sheik's purpose stops being "hiding her identity" and instead becomes "allowing Zelda to use cool ninja moves" so I can understand why people would say that there's no point in calling Sheik a He in Smash, as he acts more as a "form" for her than a persona.
If Ocarina's storyline were to continue, I wouldn't be surpised at all to see an older Zelda that mixes her ninja skills with magic without the need of the Sheik disguise. Because you don't need the sheik persona just to get some trousers and muscles.
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Don't worry, I read #TeamAlien in the DS vs Metroid thread as #TimAllen, so it could be worse. I used to think Sheik's name was supposed to be a hint that they were female, but still used he for a while by accident until I got older.
I honestly don't know even thinking about it. Pretty sure I generally call the character by their name, and I probably haven't said anything about the character in a decade. Them presenting as male in the game would make me say he/him though. Probably what I did all those years ago.
She.
As others have said, she's like Ping from Mulan.
Sheik IS Zelda in disguise.
Zelda is a trained ninja.
She used a masculine disguise to better hide from Ganondorf.
Later games like Smash Brawl and Hyrule Warriors all depict a Sheik who no longer needs to mask her gender.
In the context of talking about the character to someone who's playing OOT for the first time, I'd use "he", but otherwise, "she".
As others have said, she's like Ping from Mulan.
Sheik IS Zelda in disguise.
Zelda is a trained ninja.
She used a masculine disguise to better hide from Ganondorf.
Later games like Smash Brawl and Hyrule Warriors all depict a Sheik who no longer needs to mask her gender.
In the context of talking about the character to someone who's playing OOT for the first time, I'd use "he", but otherwise, "she".