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logash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,746
In the video this thread is about there is a short clip of Unity running at 60.
Yeah I know which is why I asked if I would need the disc version to run it that way. I thought as much but I recently sold my disc copy :( Probably gonna end up rebuying it since I am currently replaying the series and I would like to play Unity at 60 even though I already own it digitally.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,133
This answers a question I posted on the YouTube video's page. That's awesome. I mean, the loading times in Forza Horizon 4 generally aren't that bad outside of initially loading into the game from the title screen and coming out of events and/or changing seasons, as the presentation going into a race masks the loading times. That said, it'll be interesting to see how much more quickly the game loads. I was going to put it on the internal storage, anyway, since I still play it so much.

Like Richard says in the video, the improvements we saw in BC games so far are only thanks to brute SSD speed, but there are other ways in which new/patched games could take advantage of next gen consoles' architecture, beyond that.
Decompression happening on the fly means you can load compressed data, so smaller files.
Furthermore, with access to data being this quick and having no impact on CPU games won't need to store everything in ram, instead they can be structured so that they only stream data as needed, potentially allowing you to start playing in seconds while the rest is being loaded in the background.
Not sure how much of that Playground was able to implement in a patch, but if what we were told is true we really haven't seen anything yet.
 

Fabtacular

Member
Jul 11, 2019
4,244
My biggest fear is that MS will not have put the thought into providing features around managing your storage between internal and external HDDs. For example, the system should have the following features built in:

  • When you download a game, it should know whether the game is required to be on the SSD to run. If you have an external HDD, it should default to downloading the game to the SSD/external as appropriate, with a checkbox you can click to override the default (either because you want to download the SSD-required game directly to cold storage or because you want to put the back compat game to the SSD).
  • Once you plug in an external HDD the system should say "hey, it looks like you have a number of games on your internal SSD that are playable from your external HDD. Click [X] to move all of these games to the external drive. Based on your play history, you play the following games frequently. Click [Y] to move all but these games to the external HDD. Click [Z] to specially designate certain games to keep on the HDD."
  • Also, when you want to move a game from the HDD (whether a back-compat title or an SSD-required game in cold storage) or you're downloading a new game to the SSD, and you don't have enough space, the system should suggest games to delete / move to external storage based upon how frequently you've played it recently and by size. (E.g., the first group of suggestions should be games you haven't played in six months, ordered by size, then games you haven't played in two months, ordered by size, and then games you haven't played in two weeks, ordered by size.) Also, you should be able to designate games as "never suggest to remove from SSD."
 

Gitaroo

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,027
Looks like the same mechanical drive I'm using now will give major boost over one x with zen2 so I will stick to that for BC games.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,694
I have an external 1TB Crucial X8 which does about 1GB/s, use it for work and love it. If next-gen consoles properly take advantage of the added speed from external SSDs vs. regular HDDs, I'll buy another one for BC gaming.
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
Not sure how much of that Playground was able to implement in a patch, but if what we were told is true we really haven't seen anything yet.
Yeah, my thinking is that improvements made for Forza Horizon 4 probably played into their ability to improve Forza Horizon 3 with a patch for Xbox One X, and I suspect that the same could be true of improvements being made for Forza Horizon 5 somehow improving an enhancement patch for Forza Horizon 4. It just makes sense that advancements made for the next game in the series might allow them to go back and give their previous game longer legs to make the wait for the next installment more bearable.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,273
Damn Rich didn't link the specific Sabrent adapter he has. I wonder if its the USB 3.0 version or the USB 3.1 as this was what I was learning towards for my cold storage solution (which SSD remains to be seen.)
Thanks, was just rewatching around the 4:30 mark and he states its the 3.1 version.
they do a USB 3.1 version (EC-SS31) and a USB-C 3.1 version (EC-HDSS)

Amazon.com: Sabrent USB 3.1 (Type-A) to SSD / 2.5-Inch SATA Hard Drive Adapter [Optimized for SSD, Support UASP SATA III] (EC-SS31): Computers & Accessories

Amazon.com: Sabrent USB 3.1 (Type-A) to SSD / 2.5-Inch SATA Hard Drive Adapter [Optimized for SSD, Support UASP SATA III] (EC-SS31): Computers & Accessories

edit: nvm answered above
Thanks! Amazon Canada only had 4 left. Now to wait on a good SSD sale


FYI the adapter is pretty much trash for 4k random reads, so you will kneecap the SSD with it.

You'll need something better to get the "full performance" of the SSD in random reads.


This uses a VIA VL716 chip, the ASM ones do overheat FYI.

(i got Sabrent 3.0 and 3.1, dumpster fire adapter for my SanDisk 3D Ultras)

Edit: review of the one. I linked https://www.anandtech.com/show/1070...h-usb-31-gen-2-typec-hddssd-enclosures-review
 
Last edited:

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Looks awesome, I have a sabrent adapter and an old laptop SSD that's been serving me well. Awesome to see that even with the same SSD, the series X improvements over One X are still so significant.

Also interesting to see how they've improved storage. Didn't realize that there's more usable space on the same 1TB drive on Series X than One X - and that's WITH quick resume. That's really awesome.
 

RayTracing

Banned
May 28, 2020
108
Load times for BC games are pretty much the same between the internal and external SSDs.

This is cool.


But much faster on Series X when compared to last gen (X1X) because of the much faster Zen 2 CPU. I would now love to see what Series S performs knowing that it has almost the same CPU, it means that Xbox Series S has another advantage over Xbox One X. Final Fantasy loaded in 17 seconds on Series X with the same drive used for X, probably will be about the same on Series S give or take a few seconds vs 1 minute and 12 seconds on X1X, pretty massive.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
Guess I am trying to figure out, what was the limiting factor, the QVO read/write being smaller than the NVMe or the SATA to USB interface? For the NVMe having almost twice the write speed as the QVO, shouldn't it have copied faster?

Edit: I mean the NVMe did complete the job 6 minutes faster, so that does match up actually.
The results look odd.
172.2GB COD took ~11 minutes to move from internal to external nvme. That's ~15GB per minute or ~250MB/s? Right. Shouldn't it be much closer to the ~600MB/s limit of the USB port?
 

dallow_bg

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,631
texas
FYI the adapter is pretty much trash for 4k random reads, so you will kneecap the SSD with it.

You'll need something better to get the "full performance" of the SSD in random reads.


This uses a VIA VL716 chip, the ASM ones do overheat FYI.

(i got Sabrent 3.0 and 3.1, dumpster fire adapter for my SanDisk 3D Ultras)
Amazon has sold out of most of the 3.1 adapters they had from various sellers, oof.

The StarTech adapter I was looking at also uses the ASM1351 chipset but had a FW update to support TRIM.
I'm assuming the VIA chip also does TRIM passthrough? I'll need to look for something with that.

Thanks for the heads up.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,273
Amazon has sold out of most of the 3.1 adapters they had from various sellers, oof.

The StarTech adapter I was looking at also uses the ASM1351 chipset but had a FW update to support TRIM.
I'm assuming the VIA chip also does TRIM passthrough? I'll need to look for something with that.

Thanks for the heads up.
VIA one passes TRIM, as well as the correct hardware ID for the software tools.

The cheap Sabrent claim they do UASP. Pure bullshit.

The cheap ASM ones use their own IDs, so you can't use stuff like Samsung Magician, etc

Here is a review of rhe one I linked


I think the Startech one is the other one in that review?
 

jungomitis

Member
Apr 8, 2020
174
This is promising for when Sata SSD prices come down.
My immediate takeaway was that CPU seems to impact the load times a lot...

I guess I'll transition my One X to a Series X
 

J-Skee

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,121
Wish I read about that SATA drives 5 minutes before I just bought the Samsung T7 -_-
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Is Digital Foundry going to cover anything PS5?

Sony just did a PS5 tear down and DF puts up an Xbox video instead. Are these paid videos by Microsoft?
They've probably been working on this for over a week, since they have the Xbox in their hands in order run tests in their studio. What a terrible display of basic comprehension.
 

Petran

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,034
Considering Rich worked about a week on this video and Sony just dropped a (rather uninteresting) video out of the blue the other day. I think it makes more sense for Rich to prioritise his work, finish his original video, and then move on to something else. A tear down of the physical console that he does not have his hands on is less interesting then working with a console which no one else has and answering key questions people actually care about. IMO - the tear down video is a lot of self explanatory imagery and does not have a lot of information. But I am also not one to cover such a video anyway.
Give Rich my thanks please
This last video solved my Qs about what to do and what to use regarding BC
 

Tap In

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,034
Gilbert AZ
hmmm ordered the Seagate add on drive but now rethinking may see how big my games are if I can keep 8 games on internal and use my 7200 HDD for BC and storage I might be fine hmmm
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Wow, so raw SSD speeds aren't entirely responsible for these fast loads, the CPU is a major contributing factor.
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
6,660
United States
Is there a reason we're focusing on buying adapters for internal SATA SSDs? I would have just bought a USB SSD like this one to avoid messing with an adapter and having an "exposed" drive sitting in my shelf looking ugly. Is there a reason not to?

Link to SSD on Amazon
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,273
So you're saying it's worth keeping over returning it for a SATA drive?
Unless the price difference is that much, keep it.

You can go for a T5 and get the same performance as a SATA drive if you want.

The T7 is faster than the USB port on the X, so that will be the bottleneck
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
So where do games that are enhanced for the X1X, fall in to the equation? Will they still have all the enhancements if they're run off an external drive?
 

J-Skee

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,121
Unless the price difference is that much, keep it.

You can go for a T5 and get the same performance as a SATA drive if you want.

The T7 is faster than the USB port on the X, so that will be the bottleneck
But it should be the same speed as the T5, right? I got the T7 because it was actually cheaper than the T5.
 

Lowrys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,444
London
Does the Samsung 870 qvo tested in the video need an enclosure/heatsink of some kind? It seems to be an internal drive but can you just use it externally with the connector?
 

TK-421

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,729
Death Star
Do we have any confirmation the Series X supports UASP? It wasn't supported on Xbox One X, so I'm curious if it finally made it in.
 

R1CHO

Member
Oct 28, 2017
751
Wow, so raw SSD speeds aren't entirely responsible for these fast loads, the CPU is a major contributing factor.

Yes. On PC CPU optimisation is a huge bottleneck for loading on loads of games. Even with a fast nvme drive, some times will just use one or two CPU threads at 100% to process data and load, so there is a lot of wasted CPU and SSD "bandwidth".

This will probably change this gen, with developers focusing more on that area.
 

Kid Night

Member
Oct 27, 2017
475
This video really makes me want to see the data management options on the series X. I hope I can just set all backwards compatible games to the external without having to manage them individually.
 

Ding

Member
Jan 13, 2018
22
So where do games that are enhanced for the X1X, fall in to the equation? Will they still have all the enhancements if they're run off an external drive?
If I understand your question correctly, then yes. Xbox One X enhancements were mostly just resolution bumps, so nothing that would require extra speedy load times. It's only when we start seeing "serious" enhancements/patches/ports for the Series S and X, as well as games written from the ground up for those consoles, that the games will be required to be installed on a fast (non-USB) drive.