dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,734

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBnvES27Uas

Before we get into the issues - and there are issues - let's cover the positives. Many of the visual highlights we discovered in the PC version have made it to the current-gen console versions on PS5, and Series X. Ray-traced ambient occlusion is a superb extra that adds more realistic shading, especially noticeable in dark interiors, without any of the artefacting we'd see in a screen-space solution. Saints Row's lighting and volumetric effects are also spectacular, from the sand whirling behind cars in desert chases at dusk or the way smoke billows in front of headlights. Outside of story missions though, the city sandbox is the focus - the high vehicle count, destruction physics and AI provide potential for real carnage.

Despite these highlights, too often technical issues detract from the experience. Some of these appear to be design choices - like NPCs with low frame-rate animation at range that unfortunately stick out like a sore thumb on PS5 and Series X. Others present as more obvious bugs, little moments of oddness, like broken finishing moves that play out with noticeable gaps between your character model and that of the enemy.

Aside from the bugs, some rendering techniques do look a tad dated. Screen-space reflections on PS5, Series X and S, for example, stick out for running at a distractingly low setting - below PC's top preset. Any mirror image visible in lakes or rivers render at a low resolution and are easily distorted by character movement in the foreground. The rest of the world looks beautiful at a distance, but the SSR just sadly lacks the accuracy to match up to it. There's also noticeable shadow pop-in as you travel outside of the city, with a shadow cascade visibly fading in metres ahead of you. This is something that we spotted in the PC preview that hasn't been fixed for launch in any of the five modes available.
 
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Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,053
Toronto
How the hell are console games still coming out with fully unlocked framerates in 2022? Those 4k modes look awful with the hovering 30-40 FPS. Just lock them to 30.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
How the hell are console games still coming out with fully unlocked framerates in 2022? Those 4k modes look awful with the hovering 30-40 FPS. Just lock them to 30.

I agree with you about performance concerns, but having unlocked framerates in 2022 makes more sense than ever with the prevalence of VRR displays.

But yeah, it should be locked to 30 if you have a non-vrr display.
 

Rowsdower

Shinra Employee of The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
17,925
Canada
So to get close to a stable 60fps you should play this in 1080p mode without a VRR display.

VRR is a lifesaver once again.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
  • 5 settings on SX and PS5
    • 2 at 1080p
    • 2 at 1440p
    • 1 at 2160p
    • high quality 1440p, ultra high qualith 1080 has RTAO toggle
    • SS has no modes
  • RTAO is really good
  • lighting and volumetric effects is good
    • more seen in story missions
  • high vehicle count on all current gen systems allowing for lots of carnage
  • lots of bugs at varying importance
  • current gen has half rate npcs
  • finishing moves look broken with no animation syncing
  • SSR look low quality/resolution
  • lots of pop-in, regardless of setting
  • resolution is fixed in all modes, to its determent
  • every mode is unlocked
  • 1080p
    • best for 60fps
    • ultra with RT is 40-60
    • ultra is 50-60
    • max fps is smoothest
    • all drops during traversal
    • max fps reduces geometry lod, reduces foliage draw
    • set pieces also drops fps in max fps mode
  • 1440p
    • high fps sacrifices geo and draw distance
      • best balance between performance and IQ
      • best if you have a VRR display
      • 50-60fps
    • high quality modes need a 30fps cap
  • 2160p
    • shadows are lower quality, other settings are dropped down as well
    • frame rate can drop under 30fps and go up to 40fps
  • PS5 runs better with RTAO
  • SX better cpu helps with traversal
  • in 4K, systems are practically the same
  • SS
    • 1080p max fps mode
    • no RTAO
    • shadow quality is worse
    • 40-50fps, can drop lower
    • interior areas can be 60fps
  • all these problems could be fixed with patches. hopefully
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
  • Five different graphics modes, 7 permutations in total with RTAO options
    • Two options at 1080p
    • Two options at 1440p
    • One option at 4K
    • 1080p/1440p Quality modes offer an option for ray traced ambient occlusion
  • RTAO is superb
  • Lighting/volumetric effects are a huge highlight
  • Some odd unexpected physics related bugs, but sheer chaos from physics is a sight to behold
  • Vehicle count is impressively high
  • Lots of bugs and visual quirks
  • NPCs animated at a low framerate while at range
  • Collision between character models is oftentimes way off
  • Screen space reflections run at a distractingly low resolution
  • Tons of pop-in. Very obvious.
  • No difference between with PS5/Series X in visual settings between modes
  • Resolution modes are locked at their respective resolutions, with no DRS
  • Every mode runs at an unlocked framerate
  • The only option that runs at a reliable 60fps is 1080p/Max FPS
  • 1440p Max FPS mode runs at 50-60fps and is acceptable in performance
  • 4K mode runs between 25-40fps, and shadow quality, foliage density, and other settings are all reduced in 4K mode
  • Consistent margin of 3-6fps in favor of PS5 @ 1440p High Quality RTAO On mode
  • In 4K mode, the results are reversed and Series X sees the performance advantage
  • Neither console is ideal.
  • Best way to play is 1440p Max FPS mode
  • Series S has no mode options at all. Runs closest to the 1080p Max FPS mode
    • Shadow quality is lower on Series S
    • Typically runs at 40-50fps
    • Another disappointing turnout
 

BourbonAFC

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,540
Definitely gonna wait on this. I was interested in maybe picking it up as I've never played a Saints Row game, but ooof. Not even the 1080p modes managing a locked 60 fps on PS5 (and Series X) sucks. Hopefully a few patches or at least a nice sale will make it worth giving it a go.
 

1er tigre

Member
Oct 28, 2017
616
7 modes ? On consoles ? No thanks...

If I wanted to spend all my gaming time tweeking the graphics options I would have bought a PC.
 
OP
OP
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,734
Definitely gonna wait on this. I was interested in maybe picking it up as I've never played a Saints Row game, but ooof. Not even the 1080p modes managing a locked 60 fps on PS5 (and Series X) sucks. Hopefully a few patches or at least a nice sale will make it worth giving it a go.

Not achieving 60FPS even at 1080p would be fine if game didn't look like generation old at least.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,073
Hopefully the game turns around, perf wise. I really want to see a new Red Faction game one day
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,570
I think I'm more shocked at no drs.

It's 2022, almost 2023...the benefits of drs should be well known by now. If your game can't hit performance goals using native...then don't.
 

Izanagi89

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,166
Series S getting the short end of the stick again. Why not just lock it to 30fps.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Series S getting the short end of the stick again. Why not just lock it to 30fps.

I mean, you could say that with all consoles/modes for this game.

my guess is that One X is akin to the Series S and has an extra mode that targets 2160p and 30fps at Series S settings. One and PS4 are probably the same as Series S at 30fps and maybe 900p

Considering the Series X / PS5 can't even hold 30fps at 4K w/reduced settings, I really doubt the One X is going to have a 4K mode.
 
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LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,059
Not achieving 60FPS even at 1080p would be fine if game didn't look like generation old at least.

It's open world game on effectively what is a weaker ryzen, it's overall performance is that 2700+ desktop but with more modern features, people need to check their expectations quick. The game isn't helped they tried pushing the gpu but without VRS, DRS, or image reconstruction involved, which is startiing to worry me devs aren't caring about free performance or fidelity being left for them.

1080p@60fps isn't for free it's the point where you can tell if the device in question is up to snuff or not. It wasn't for free last gen either.
 

Terbinator

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,201
5 modes in nonsense. They should have stuck to a low and high-frame rate vision and gone with it.
 

Izanagi89

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,166
I mean, you could say that with all consoles/modes for this game.

Sure but the Series S only has a default mode though and so you can't really make any adjustments. Would've been the easiest console to just make the performance uniform on there and lock it to 30.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Sure but the Series S only has a default mode though and so you can't really make any adjustments. Would've been the easiest console to just make the performance uniform on there and lock it to 30.

Oh yeah I agree, I guess the point I'm making is that the game is a mess all around on all consoles and settings.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I wonder if that extra couple hundreds of megabytes of ram would be enough to get some ray tracing on the Series S. I find it weird so many games are now missing it when they could run it, in theory
 

Theecliff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,138
i can appreciate developers wanting to give console players more choice over framerate/resolution, but not only do some of the options here seem redundant, most of them are kinda baffling in practice in terms of performance and visual quality - none of them seem ideal. and poor Series S, god damn. i can only hope a patch gets sent out that adds an optional 30fps lock for those higher end modes.
locking should be option and if fps goes higher, vrr helps with that
on the PS5 the 4K mode and that 1440p mode with RT falls way under the VRR range for it to be worth it at all leaving it unlocked.
 

EinBear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,796
Whilst I'm all for giving people options, having five different performance modes is just ridiculous and runs counter to one of the main benefits of console gaming.

I really think just having 'Performance' and 'Resolution' modes is the way to go.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,059
I wonder if that extra couple hundreds of megabytes of ram would be enough to get some ray tracing on the Series S. I find it weird so many games are now missing it when they could run it, in theory

Did we ever find out if the memory mangement improvements to xbox sdk help out in this area? I still think it's lack the total vram or gpu grunt to do more refined or high quality RT. Until more effective engines show up some devs won't be able to flex it either, older shit not on SFS is a problem. Might not be worth the pain in getting to run or balance based on info some have put out.

Having a robust or comprehensive engine this gen sounds like a pain to me considering what it all has to cover to get certain results. Devs are in a crap poistion to use RT considering you have to ground up or basically heavily redo what is there which isn't pleasant or practial. If we see a title with high tier vrs, image reconstuction and decent RT integration series S could pull off some wonders. More than capable just devs aren't really given the flex and the ones that could won't be focused on such, like epic and rockstar could but look at the products they are focused on. It's not just tools the know how on a per title basis is extremely low for this specialty.

I don't think we will end up with a gamecube situation but it won't be much better than that until devs are allowed time to grow and figure out solutions.
 

DKMGT

Banned
Jun 19, 2022
297
Not trying to be a negative nancy but not seeing what's so "impressive" from the footage.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
33,131
Chicago
Seeing the 1440p quality mode with RTAO running just under the PS5's VRR range most of the time is pretty damn disappointing but I think I'll chance it regardless.

The fact that the game is basically unstable without VRR everywhere, across all modes, unless you go down to 1080p on a current gen console is just absurd though. Most people still don't have VRR capable displays and they're going to be left with a dogs dinner when it comes to either visuals or performance depending on what mode they choose. Just a real damn shame across the board and a clear sign that Volition probably should have been given more time to polish this up and work on optimization across the board. There's just not really any excuse for a game that looks fundamentally "last gen" to run this way on current gen machines.

Such a shame this is turning out to be a bit of a mess.
 

Ze_Shoopuf

Member
Jun 12, 2018
4,168
The overall last gen graphics, AI, and tons of pop in is really disappointing.

I wonder how much of this is due to needing to support online coop?

Does it take a further nosedive with coop?
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Did we ever find out if the memory mangement improvements to xbox sdk help out in this area? I still think it's lack the total vram or gpu grunt to do more refined or high quality RT. Until more effective engines show up some devs won't be able to flex it either, older shit not on SFS is a problem. Might not be worth the pain in getting to run or balance based on info some have put out.

Having a robust or comprehensive engine this gen sounds like a pain to me considering what it all has to cover to get certain results. Devs are in a crap poistion to use RT considering you have to ground up or basically heavily redo what is there which isn't pleasant or practial. If we see a title with high tier vrs, image reconstuction and decent RT integration series S could pull off some wonders. More than capable just devs aren't really given the flex and the ones that could won't be focused on such, like epic and rockstar could but look at the products they are focused on. It's not just tools the know how on a per title basis is extremely low for this specialty.

I don't think we will end up with a gamecube situation but it won't be much better than that until devs are allowed time to grow and figure out solutions.
still a lot of theory and hypotheticals. not to mention the added memory removes some OS-level function, 3DS style, so it may not even be worth it to some devs.

it's nice to start seeing minor effects being replaced by high fidelity ones, and the performance does seem quite good, but the whole engine could still be a mess as far as efficiency goes
 
Oct 29, 2017
7,745
1440 Framerate mode for me. Kind of ridiculous that they included so many modes but none of them, even at 1080p, achieve a 60 FPS lock. I hope performance can be improved in updates.
 

dose

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,742
7 modes ? On consoles ? No thanks...

If I wanted to spend all my gaming time tweeking the graphics options I would have bought a PC.
Yep, madness. Which means they have less time to optimise them, so none of them are ideal. Not needed in console games. Stick to one, or just 2 max.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,059
still a lot of theory and hypotheticals. not to mention the added memory removes some OS-level function, 3DS style, so it may not even be worth it to some devs.

it's nice to start seeing minor effects being replaced by high fidelity ones, and the performance does seem quite good, but the whole engine could still be a mess as far as efficiency goes

Game design, genre or intentions will limit a lot of what is being mentioned so trying to lay out a spectrum of potential. I'm still very happy with base consoles be it the bigger bros or the series S. The OS hit does sound semi jank to me cause there are titles were I don't want the higher functions hit or removed so much, simpler games can afford it but they most likely won't need it.

efficiency has never been messier just wish more devs would realize with the benchmarking data native rendering even at 1080p without VRS is wasteful
 

AlternateAir

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
Your C1 isn't the issue. PS5 VRR range on a system level is only 48-120.
Seeing the 1440p quality mode with RTAO running just under the PS5's VRR range most of the time is pretty damn disappointing but I think I'll chance it regardless.
This is where I am waffling - do I risk the occasional drop out of PS5s VRR? Or do I try this on Series X, which has a bigger VRR window to work with, but even then this video shows sub 40 drops on the X, so again, it would fall outside the window.

Just really unfortunate all the way around here.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,059
Yep, madness. Which means they have less time to optimise them, so none of them are ideal. Not needed in console games. Stick to one, or just 2 max.

This is non-sense. The devs are free to fix up any gltiches or fx that is hindering performance

Offering consumers the ability to chose their native res then some measure of performance or max fidelity for what the dev feels is approritate is all your doing. What do you really suggest one resolution choice and no options on performance or fidelity? That wouldn't work the DF video makes it clear they are strained at 4k so even more cuts would have to be done to make it alone stable even for 30fps and that still wouldn't fix all the consumers who would be miffed at 1080p or 1440p who may not want that lean to the game.

This game is launching without much refinement considering there is no near perfection option for frame pacing at any level. Having less modes especially those that require less of the device isn't the problem considering what data we have here. 4k30fps takes more than any other mode and it's not stable nor does it have a lock. The game is purely native and their engines aren't well known for perfect or near perfect framepacing, they aren't horrible but their other titles have problems too. We won't really know the scaling of this title till we know how it performs on high end pcs relative to the 3rd remaster which wasn't pumping out insane fps, most open world titles aren't compared to control or doom eternal. RDR2 still looks effectively better especially if we are considering scenes with alot of draw distance.