Digital Foundry - Horizon Forbidden West PS5 Trailer Analysis: The Decima Engine Evolves

[James Sawyer Ford]

RT is going to be quite limited in launch window titles, and limited overall this gen unless there's a breakthrough in doing cheap RT on AMD's side of things. The only way we're going to see a bunch of RT is if games are targeting lower resolutions.

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RT also makes more sense for some games than others.

In Horizon, there's not as much metallic surfaces and has a larger focus on foliage, so I don't really think we'll see it much. I do hope there are some subtle RT effects for water reflections though.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm really curious to see how the visuals improve between now and launch. Guerrilla's late optimization has really punched up some of their games. I remember Shadow Fall's forest mission was shown at E3, everyone thought it looked great, and then the game launched and fog was added to the whole map which added a lot of atmosphere. At the PS4 Pro reveal Horizon ZD was 1800c with a spotty framerate whereas the final release was 2160c and much smoother. This game has more time between now and release than either of those games and is already native 4K looking this good.

 

[LavaBadger]

RT also makes more sense for some games than others.

In Horizon, there's not as much metallic surfaces and has a larger focus on foliage, so I don't really think we'll see it much. I do hope there are some subtle RT effects for water reflections though.

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The reality is, a lot of devs have gotten very good at faking these sorts of things, and if they can get better reflections, but with a much higher cost, they're going to have make a decision. This likely is a title that could use it sparingly to good effect; water surfaces, perhaps more enclosed areas with old, shiny metal where less is already being rendered.

Devs will use the tricks they need to get the performance they need, but anyone expecting RT in every or even most titles is going to be disappointed.

 

[RoboPlato]

RT also makes more sense for some games than others.

In Horizon, there's not as much metallic surfaces and has a larger focus on foliage, so I don't really think we'll see it much. I do hope there are some subtle RT effects for water reflections though.

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I think a good use of RT here would be for shadows/AO.

 

[VanWinkle]

Great video, as always. Can't wait to see what, if any, improvements Guerilla makes between now and launch. Also really hoping for some in-depth tech talk from Guerilla sometime soon.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The reality is, a lot of devs have gotten very good at faking these sorts of things, and if they can get better reflections, but with a much higher cost, they're going to have make a decision. This likely is a title that could use it sparingly to good effect; water surfaces, perhaps more enclosed areas with old, shiny metal where less is already being rendered.

Devs will use the tricks they need to get the performance they need, but anyone expecting RT in every or even most titles is going to be disappointed.

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Totally agree.

I am 100% OK if they fake the reflections like what was done in TLOU2...It can have extremely impressive results for a fraction of the cost.

That's why I say that it will be used in a subtle fashion like what was seen with Ratchet and Clank.

 

[j7vikes]

Devs will use the tricks they need to get the performance they need, but anyone expecting RT in every or even most titles is going to be disappointed.

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I hope where's the RT doesn't become some battle cry. This game looks absolutely amazing already and they are known for being one of the best graphical quality console studios. Ray tracing may be an awesome tool in the developers arsenal but it's certainly not going to be required to make games look incredible.

 

[Equanimity]

I hope we get a behind the scenes video similar to the one DF made for the first game.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Couldn't agree more with video, for me model improvement is also modest(more visible on ears zoom etc) and also have some hasitation with overanalyzing inengine cutscenes. Good work df. Don't have problem with lack of rt, I think it still not a generation for heavy rt usege

 

[Orioto]

Couldn't agree more with video, for me model improvement is also modest(more visible on ears zoom etc) and also have some hasitation with overanalyzing inengine cutscenes. Good work df. Don't have problem with lack of rt, I think it still not a generation for heavy rt usege

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I was thinking kinda the same but actually the more i look at it, especially compared to the first one, the more that model upgrade seems huge. The original one is not that hot anymore.

 

[Hockeymac18]

Pop-in detected. Absolutely disgusting.

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Game looks really good

 

[arsene_P5]

A very stunning game awaits us and I can't wait to play it next year.

 

[Tyaren]

Pop-in detected. Absolutely disgusting.

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Where? I'm like really concentrating to find it, lol.

The only bigger graphical inconsistency I noticed in the trailer was some of the splashes of sea water on the rocks. One looked a bit glitchy. I am sure that will be ironed out in the final game though. This cutscene will probably not even be in the game anyway.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Where? I'm like really concentrating to find it, lol.

The only bigger graphical inconsistency I noticed in the trailer was some of the splashes of sea water on the rocks. One looked a bit glitchy. I am sure that will be ironed out in the final game though. This cutscene will probably not even be in the game anyway.

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camera moving through the fog

reverse pop-in!

 

[Dan Thunder]

Where? I'm like really concentrating to find it, lol.

The only bigger graphical inconsistency I noticed in the trailer was some of the splashes of sea water on the rocks. One looked a bit glitchy. I am sure that will be ironed out in the final game though. This cutscene will probably not even be in the game anyway.

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If you watch the top of the central column you'll see a little bit pop in at the top as the camera moves in.

 

[Dan Thunder]

Pop-in detected. Absolutely disgusting.

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[nelsonroyale]

The main gains are definitely in the environments, even while the character models also look better. if you look at the landscape scenes, the level of detail and geometry on screen at once is noticeabley higher than say RDR2 even on PC, asset quality and modelling in particular is superior. Seeing gameplay with this kind of detail with more post processing turned on will look very impressive.

 

[pswii60]

RT is going to be quite limited in launch window titles, and limited overall this gen unless there's a breakthrough in doing cheap RT on AMD's side of things. The only way we're going to see a bunch of RT is if games are targeting lower resolutions.

Click to shrink...

We can already see different techniques being used to overcome the performance hit, but still provide some of the advantages. For example, in GT7 the ray-traced reflections in the mirrors are only 1080p - and using reconstruction to hit that target too.

It's a nice compromise. Wasn't long ago that many were speculating that we wouldn't be seeing ray-tracing used much at all next gen. I think Sony proved the doubters wrong there via Ratchet and GT7 already using it in a big way in the launch window.

Pop-in detected. Absolutely disgusting.

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Yeah the geometry/shadow pop-in which has sadly plagued this generation on console. Particularly aggressive in TLoU2 most recently - but obviously needed given the insane amount of stuff it's pushing on screen at any time. A compute limitation, nothing to do with the IO. Although I expect it'll be far less prevalent next gen. Always seems to be most obvious where rocks are concerned!

 

[Tyaren]

If you watch the top of the central column you'll see a little bit pop in at the top as the camera moves in.

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OMG, I now see it!

 

[Nooblet]

Shadow of the Colossus was by the way a game that already featured really nice and realistic looking rolling waves with sea foam:

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AC Odyssey as well, and the shape and size of it would be dependant on the location. It'd also lift up the boat and your character model if it's on the way.

 

[chris 1515]

We can already see different techniques being used to overcome the performance hit, but still provide some of the advantages. For example, in GT7 the ray-traced reflections in the mirrors are only 1080p - and using reconstruction to hit that target too.

It's a nice compromise. Wasn't long ago that many were speculating that we wouldn't be seeing ray-tracing used much at all next gen. I think Sony proved the doubters wrong there via Ratchet and GT7 already using it in a big way in the launch window.

Yeah the geometry/shadow pop-in which has sadly plagued this generation on console. Particularly aggressive in TLoU2 most recently - but obviously needed given the insane amount of stuff it's pushing on screen at any time. A compute limitation, nothing to do with the IO. Although I expect it'll be far less prevalent next gen. Always seems to be most obvious where rocks are concerned!

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Exaclty nothing to do with streaming. This is a problem of LOD system. Geometry engine/Mesh shading can help here we will maybe see an improvement before the release of the game or in the 2nd generation of Decima game on PS5.

EDIT: SSD help for streaming popin, texture popin.

 

[Nooblet]

I don't know why people here have lately started to think SSD means no pop in, IO is unrelated to LOD.

The only reason it had any relatuin in the Unreal Engine 5 demo is because of the way UE5 actually handles LOD in the first place with nanites...and even that demo still has LOD changes, it's just so small that it becomes imperceptible.

 

[Lausebub]

Once other developers start using a similar system as nanites and since EU5 will be the most used engine, pop-in will hopefully not be
noticable a few years into next gen.