Digital Foundry || Horizon Forbidden West - Digital Foundry Tech Review - A PS5 Graphics Masterclass

[yhgtu]

What you said was "60fps adds nothing" which is of course total horse shit.

It adds motion clarity.

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If you choose to strip out the qualifier I said *literally* right before that statement, yes, that would make sense. I don't know why you choose to argue in bad faith.

To reiterate, If I (me personally) am looking for immersion, 60 FPS adds nothing (to the immersion).

It is equivalent to me to watching a movie like the hobbit in 60 FPS, it is jarring as movement in real life does not look like that, and makes the game look even more gamey/fake looking.

I never said 60 FPS in general adds nothing. Which you made a straw man argument for.

In fact, my fiancée even says as much and bans me from playing single player games with her in 60 as she gets distracted the whole time.

What I am saying is pretty reasonable.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It can look great.
But sorry, no, it isn't state-of-the-art.
It is a video gamey world from the 2000s with colorful lights, RDR2 is a real life simulation against that.

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Yea so they literally just changed a ton of how the simulation works and we're supposed to be talking about more than the simulation. We were talking about presentation.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Has nothing on the Welcome to the Matrix demo on PC in highest settings.

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Nothing does. Because that literally doesn't exist…..

 

[M. Wallace]

Nothing does. Because that literally doesn't exist…..

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Yeah, I was going to say...

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

What I am saying is pretty reasonable.

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Well, if you say so.

Great we're back at the level of nonsense where 30fps is more lifelike than 60fps. Because who doesn't love a good old "your eyes can only perceive 30fps" and other rubbish like that 🙄

 

[MegaSackman]

No visual compromises for me this time. Might have a second playthrough at 60fps (after Elden Ring).

 

[Steiner_Zi]

If you choose to strip out the qualifier I said *literally* right before that statement, yes, that would make sense. I don't know why you choose to argue in bad faith.

To reiterate, If I (me personally) am looking for immersion, 60 FPS adds nothing (to the immersion).

It is equivalent to me to watching a movie like the hobbit in 60 FPS, it is jarring as movement in real life does not look like that, and makes the game look even more gamey/fake looking.

I never said 60 FPS in general adds nothing. Which you made a straw man argument for.

In fact, my fiancée even says as much and bans me from playing single player games with her in 60 as she gets distracted the whole time.

What I am saying is pretty reasonable.

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You can't in good faith compare a movie like The Hobbit with a 3D action/adventure videogame where you move, shoot around and rotate the camera constantly. Frame-rate is much more important in videogames.

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

What you said was "60fps adds nothing" which is of course total horse shit.

It adds motion clarity.

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60fps to me makes a game feel incredibly more polished and fluid which in turn allows more immersion. When it runs smoothly it feels like a real world instead of constantly being reminded you're playing a videogame. It's a complete game changer.

 

[Firefly]

It can look great.
But sorry, no, it isn't state-of-the-art.
It is a video gamey world from the 2000s with colorful lights, RDR2 is a real life simulation against that.
They couldn't even implement wall running or the monorail for fast traveling.

It looks good as an RPG, and might play fine most of the time, but it isn't state-of-the-art.

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Your reductive reasoning can be applied to all games. RDR2 controls like shit (and that is coming from some who loves the game despite the fact), not a state of the art game. At no point in the game can you see crowds or geometry as dense as Unity or Cyberpunk. Most of the world is filled with barren landscapes. Almost all of the buildings in Saint Denis are set dressing. I haven't played Forbidden West but what is it doing special with its crowd reactions? As good as the game looks, you can expect a PS5 exclusive sequel to blow it out of the water. Does it mean its not state of the art? All games have different design goals. Please stop this "couldn't even implement monorail" reasoning in a discussion about visuals/graphics.

 

[Anarion07]

Has nothing on the Welcome to the Matrix demo on PC in highest settings.
If we just speak about graphics.

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So anything that is not the Matrix demo is not a great looking game? Does not compute

 

[yhgtu]

Well, if you say so.

Great we're back at the level of nonsense where 30fps is more lifelike than 60fps. Because who doesn't love a good old "your eyes can only perceive 30fps" and other rubbish like that 🙄

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If you don't want you argue in good faith, you can just not reply you know.

60 FPS does make a difference, and it helps immensely with competitive FPS games and platformers.

This is not merely my observation, if you have a problem with it you can take it up with the people in real life who request me to play in 30 FPS when they watch me game 😭. Why this bothers you I have no idea.

You can't in good faith compare a movie like The Hobbit with a 3D action/adventure videogame where you move, shoot around and rotate the camera constantly. Frame-rate is much more important in videogames.

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It is more important, however in a game like Horizon, it is not nearly as important as other types of games. You aren't severely handicapped for playing at 30 FPS, even Digital Foundry recommended a 30 FPS play through.

And if you are looking at the perspective of a viewer watching someone else play, 30 FPS is more than fine with them, and can be preferable, as is the case with the person I play games with.

 

[Steiner_Zi]

If you don't want you argue in good faith, you can just not reply you know.

60 FPS does make a difference, and it helps immensely with competitive FPS games and platformers.

This is not merely my observation, if you have a problem with it you can take it up with the people in real life who request me to play in 30 FPS when they watch me game 😭. Why this bothers you I have no idea.



It is more important, however in a game like Horizon, it is not nearly as important as other types of games. You aren't severely handicapped for playing at 30 FPS, even Digital Foundry recommended a 30 FPS play through.

And if you are looking at the perspective of a viewer watching someone else play, 30 FPS is more than fine with them, and can be preferable, as is the case with the person I play games with.

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So you state that 60fps is important for platformers and not a game like Horizon which has so much platforming in it AND real-time action combat? That's your opinion, but it goes against to most people think. 3D Action/Adventures benefit massively from higher frame-rates.

Also, no offense but it's not relevant to the discussion what your personal setting with you SO watching is. We are discussing this as players, not viewers. In my case anyone watching wouldn't be able to tell the difference but it's not the point here to start throwing anecdotal statements.

 

[yhgtu]

So you state that 60fps is important for platformers and not a game like Horizon which has so much platforming in it AND real-time action combat? That's your opinion, but it goes against to most people think. 3D Action/Adventures benefit massively from higher frame-rates.

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It may, but I'm not talking about gameplay as to why I am choosing 30fps. I was just throwing a bone at the people who say 60 FPS makes a difference. I am choosing 30 FPS because the difference in gameplay for this game is negligible to me, but the difference in how the game looks is much bigger and more important imo in a single player game.

There are certain games where 30 FPS is done wrong, and that would be Demon's Souls. I have no idea what they did there, but the 30 FPS mode is so rough to look at it looks like it's playing at 15 FPS Nandi have to stick with the 60 FPS mode.

And I played the Zero Dawn fine in 30, and this game will play fine as well.

 

[Wheatly]

I feel like this is the most neutral ground place I can bring this up. As a PS5 owner over the last few weeks I realize I want to move all my gaming over to my first gaming PC I bought a few months ago (2070 super) Would I benefit from waiting for a potential PC version of HFW, or would PS5 look the same if not better.

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HFW, especially as a Sony first party title, is optimized to its potential for their consoles. Whereas for PC ports, I've usually seen that it's suboptimal

I guess DLSS can help make up some of that. Before DLSS was really a thing, my 2070 (non super) was performing similarly to my PS4 pro. I don't see the 2070 super performing better than a Sony first party on the PS5

 

[Linus815]

HFW, especially as a Sony first party title, is optimized to its potential for their consoles. Whereas for PC ports, I've usually seen suboptimal optimization.

I guess DLSS can help make up some of that. Before DLSS was really a thing, my 2070 (non super) was performing similarly to my PS4 pro. I don't see the 2070 super performing any better than a Sony first party on the PS5

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a 2070 was, is and always will be far superior to a ps4 pro's gpu, regardless of DLSS.

 

[Wheatly]

a 2070 was, is and always will be far superior to a ps4 pro's gpu, regardless of DLSS.

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Im talking about game performance, not the raw power of the hardware

 

[Tyaren]

Any chance DF will before game release upload their PS4 to PS5 comparison video? :)

 

[Eoin]

Any chance DF will before game release upload their PS4 to PS5 comparison video? :)

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Their original article said:

we'll be running a much more detailed video on this when the game is available (Sony embargo limitations limit us to just 30 minutes of Forbidden West footage pre-launch)

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That rules out the idea of any other video pre-launch, but presumably the video will be there as shortly after launch as Digital Foundry can manage.

 

[noomi]

Torn on 30 vs 60 FPS....

If 30fps had the same input response at 60 I could handle it. I wish there was a middle ground like Insomniac did for Ratchet & Clank with a 40FPS option that could take advantage of 120hz displays.

Then again, is the PS5 actually had VRR then 30fps would feel better....

 

[Wouwie]

Some TVs handle image motion in different ways and lower refresh rates are a real problem for them. 30FPS on an OLED is most definitely a different experience to 30FPS on a recent LCD screen which itself is a different experience to 30FPS on a plasma. The faster response times of OLED mean the image is just flicking from one frame to the next without any of the artificial smoothening that was provided by the slower pixel responses of other screens.

You'd probably get somewhat used to this if you were only playing at 30FPS but because you're now used to 60FPS, every time you swap back is going to feel pretty awful for a while.

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Interesting. I assume i would probably get used to it again if i tried long enough (i definately played some PS4 games on my oled before i had a PS5) but for most games, 60FPS seems the better option anyway. Also, i have the impression that it is different depending on the game. With Kena for example, i had the feeling i was getting headaches as the image didn't appear smooth at all. But i'm sure i have played 30FPS games on my PS5 without a problem and i don't recall having problems with Ratchet (though i preferred 60FPS). Switching directly from 60FPS to 30FPS seems like a bad idea in any case. So with Horizon, i will try the quality mode first for a while to see if i can adjust. If i had known this was an issue with oled, i might have gone with a led instead tbh.

 

[Oneself]

Interesting. I assume i would probably get used to it again if i tried long enough (i definately played some PS4 games on my oled before i had a PS5) but for most games, 60FPS seems the better option anyway. Also, i have the impression that it is different depending on the game. With Kena for example, i had the feeling i was getting headaches as the image didn't appear smooth at all. But i'm sure i have played 30FPS games on my PS5 without a problem and i don't recall having problems with Ratchet (though i preferred 60FPS). Switching directly from 60FPS to 30FPS seems like a bad idea in any case. So with Horizon, i will try the quality mode first for a while to see if i can adjust. If i had known this was an issue with oled, i might have gone with a led instead tbh.

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More often than not, it's a matter of good or bad motion blur I guess.

 

[Moms_Spaghetti]

I'm watching the first part of the game now and not seeing the crazy shimmering you mention. There's bits here and there.

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I'm playing on a 65 inch lg oled, much more apparent live than watching online/streams…

 

[ChristianM]

Then again, is the PS5 actually had VRR then 30fps would feel better....

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No, it wouldn't. It would make zero difference in a game with locked 30fps.

 

[Merv]

To many games coming out at once and Im already struggling to finish my current question mark quest(Dying Light 2).

Will look great on my PC when Im ready

 

[drewfonse]

If you don't want you argue in good faith, you can just not reply you know.

60 FPS does make a difference, and it helps immensely with competitive FPS games and platformers.

This is not merely my observation, if you have a problem with it you can take it up with the people in real life who request me to play in 30 FPS when they watch me game 😭. Why this bothers you I have no idea.



It is more important, however in a game like Horizon, it is not nearly as important as other types of games. You aren't severely handicapped for playing at 30 FPS, even Digital Foundry recommended a 30 FPS play through.

And if you are looking at the perspective of a viewer watching someone else play, 30 FPS is more than fine with them, and can be preferable, as is the case with the person I play games with.

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Just clarify and confirming: your fiancée has banned you from playing 60 FPS games? You can't be serious. Get out now if true, next up: you'll only be able to play games with horrendous input lag. Slippery slope!

 

[slothrop]

Put me down in the category of people who really does not gaf about 30 FPS vs 60 FPS. It just absolutely has no correlation with my enjoyment of a game. Everyone has their own preferences!

 

[Tora]

Any word on the HDR implementation?

 

[Izzard]

Guys, people have been happy playing at 30fps for many years. No need to be rude about it. Just be happy you have a choice:)

 

[2Blackcats]

Torn on 30 vs 60 FPS....

If 30fps had the same input response at 60 I could handle it. I wish there was a middle ground like Insomniac did for Ratchet & Clank with a 40FPS option that could take advantage of 120hz displays.

Then again, is the PS5 actually had VRR then 30fps would feel better....

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A lot of people have commented on how response the 30fps mode so fingers crossed. It defaults to resolution mode so going to try it first anyway.

Just clarify and confirming: your fiancée has banned you from playing 60 FPS games? You can't be serious. Get out now if true, next up: you'll only be able to play games with horrendous input lag. Slippery slope!

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Don't feed the troll. Fiancée banning 60fps games, ha . No wonder they're stanning 30fps. (Sounds like motion plus or something might be enabled on their TV)

 

[scabobbs]

If it's feel like Spider-Man, I won't miss 60 FPS one bit. There's zero reason for me to demand 60 FPS in a non-competitive, single player game. If I'm trying to be immersed, 60 FPS adds nothing.

These games aren't even particularly hard to warrant the need for 60 FPS anyways.

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Ya I just completely disagree. 60fps will be huge for combat fluidity in a chaotic action game like Horizon. Ain't no way I'm playing in the 30fps mode, dont care what sacrifices have to be made.

 

[nDesh]

I'll try the 30 fps mode, lots of people recommending it and mentioning how responsive it is, even John Linneman.

 

[2Blackcats]

I'll try the 30 fps mode, lots of people recommending it and mentioning how responsive it is, even John Linneman.

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His word is fairly gospel in my experience.

 

[D23]

cant wait to play this on 4k 30 fps mode. im ready to get my face melted with them graphics

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I've liked CP2077 but common beside RT implementation it looks cheap and sterile. People are made from clay, and building from cartons.


Horizon 2 > RDR2 > ....... > DL2,CP2077,Exodus and other games condireded looking good only because of it's RT implementation.
And still TLOU2, Demons Souls, Ratchet looks better than anything but those aren't open world games.


Also if you compare PS5 version of Cp2077,DL2 to HFW it's not even fair because I would rate PC version of those games looking worse.
Those games heavily relay on RT doing the hardwork, and beside that, there isn't much more to show.

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Feel free to disagree. I didn't find it cheap nor sterile. Also, saying "besides RT" leads me to believe you don't fully grasp just how big of an impact that has on visuals.

 

[PhazonBlazer]

As long as I don't try the 60 fps mode I should be able to handle 30 fps

Ignorance is bliss

 

[zaitsu]

Torn on 30 vs 60 FPS....

If 30fps had the same input response at 60 I could handle it. I wish there was a middle ground like Insomniac did for Ratchet & Clank with a 40FPS option that could take advantage of 120hz displays.

Then again, is the PS5 actually had VRR then 30fps would feel better....

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Tell me you don't understand the idea of VRR without telling me that you don't understand the idea of VRR

 

[Wollan]

As long as I don't try the 60 fps mode I should be able to handle 30 fps

Ignorance is bliss

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But why heh. I see a few saying this.
If experiencing two graphics modes, where one of them if experienced will make you not want to go back, why then avoid it? :)

 

[PhazonBlazer]

But why heh. I see a few saying this.
If experiencing two graphics modes, where one of them if experienced will make you not want to go back, why then avoid it? :)

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I dunno, to me I just really want the game to look the best it can I guess.

 

[yhgtu]

Just clarify and confirming: your fiancée has banned you from playing 60 FPS games? You can't be serious. Get out now if true, next up: you'll only be able to play games with horrendous input lag. Slippery slope!

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Lol, how did you get that from what I wrote. She requests I play narrative games in 30 as it looks less jarring to watch.

I don't necessarily disagree, and I enjoy single player games the most when the resolution and graphics are highest.

 

[MrBob]

If someone wants jarring, come watch 30 fps games on my 2017 oled haha.

 

[Mars People]

60fps also adds much greater input response.
So its always going to feel more responsive to play.

 

[craven68]

Im talking about game performance, not the raw power of the hardware

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The 2070 was like m'y older 1080ti right ? They are not in the same leage even in game than a PS4 pro . ( Of course , last of us 2 was Amazing , and not a lot of games even on pc didn't have this quality of graphics ). But if you take the same game on PS4 pro and on a 2070, they weren't the same.

 

[Mutagenic]

60fps also adds much greater input response.
So its always going to feel more responsive to play.

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It adds a lot to both input response and motion clarity. For someone to say response doesn't matter in a character action game, or that motion clarity doesn't matter when you're swinging around a city and panning the camera while doing so, is baffling.

 

[wafflebrain]

Posters downplaying CP2077 with RT after the 1.5 patch just lol. I spent a ridiculous amount of time last night just taking screenshots of it, it looks otherworldly. DL2's RTGI looks good too but with the amount of unique assets, density of npcs, the geometric/architectural variety in Night City it really does feel like a next gen experience on PC. Not to take away from FW ofc, its stunning in its own way but lighting ain't what it does best.

To reiterate, If I (me personally) am looking for immersion, 60 FPS adds nothing (to the immersion).

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Get me back to me after you've played a game in VR @ 90+ fps :P

I kinda get your meaning wrt flatscreen games specifically, though the more I play those at higher framerates I definitely agree that the more frames = more visual information. Of course I definitely notice the lack of pixels but its still a tradeoff that in most cases I prefer more frames especially with any fast moving gameplay or ones that require you to move the camera more. Playing Legacy of Thieves collection with the 120 fps mode was like getting a new TV, especially since my set doesn't handle motion well at 30 hz. In combat even going from 60 to 120 was a big difference.

I can understand the higher res mode preference if its a more walking sim, smell the roses type experience. Anything action heavy I'll always prefer higher framerate. Can't even imagine playing something like Returnal at < 60 fps. Different strokes 🤷‍♂️

 

[SodapopVII]

Posters downplaying CP2077 with RT after the 1.5 patch just lol. I spent a ridiculous amount of time last night just taking screenshots of it, it looks otherworldly. DL2's RTGI looks good too but with the amount of unique assets, density of npcs, the geometric/architectural variety in Night City it really does feel like a next gen experience on PC. Not to take away from FW ofc, its stunning in its own way but lighting ain't what it does best.

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Agreed, on a high end PC with all those Raytracing settings cranked up to the max and 4k DLSS it is without doubt the most visually stunning game I have ever played - in spite of it's many oddities and issues, and I have done most of the graphical heavy hitters (minus Ratchet) It is absolutely state of the art in presentation and the way it tricks your brain by making objects look real and grounded unlike standard lighting used in games cannot be understated. Will see tomorrow if Forbidden West knocks it off the top spot - looks to do so in certain aspects at least!

 

[NoctisLC]

Man i'd give my left nut for this to have Ratchet's 40fps mode. Would be so perfect

 

[CowboyAloy]

I took took Tuesday and Wednesday off next week. So I'll have five straight days with the game starting tomorrow. Holy cow am I ready for this! Based on what DF says I'll run it in Res. I can adapt to 30FPS I'm willing to bet.

 

[Ahti]

As long as I don't try the 60 fps mode I should be able to handle 30 fps

Ignorance is bliss

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It works well even if you switch between the modes. Guerrilla achieved what most can only dream of: the smooth 30FPS-experience.

 

[Wheatly]

The 2070 was like m'y older 1080ti right ? They are not in the same leage even in game than a PS4 pro . ( Of course , last of us 2 was Amazing , and not a lot of games even on pc didn't have this quality of graphics ). But if you take the same game on PS4 pro and on a 2070, they weren't the same.

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It really depends on the game. The first game I tried on the 2070 was Assassins Creed Odessey and it struggles to stay above 50 fps at 1440p on medium-high settings. Certainly didn't feel like it played or looked better than the same game on the PS4 pro. Then there are even more poorly optimized games for PC, some being Sony first party ports.

Ultimately, other factors beyond brute hardware strength matter a whole lot. I don't think you'll have a game like HFW, which is optimized to the tee to play on PS, will perform better on a PC just solely based on the brute strength of the PC internals

 

[yhgtu]

Posters downplaying CP2077 with RT after the 1.5 patch just lol. I spent a ridiculous amount of time last night just taking screenshots of it, it looks otherworldly. DL2's RTGI looks good too but with the amount of unique assets, density of npcs, the geometric/architectural variety in Night City it really does feel like a next gen experience on PC. Not to take away from FW ofc, its stunning in its own way but lighting ain't what it does best.



Get me back to me after you've played a game in VR @ 90+ fps :P

I kinda get your meaning wrt flatscreen games specifically, though the more I play those at higher framerates I definitely agree that the more frames = more visual information. Of course I definitely notice the lack of pixels but its still a tradeoff that in most cases I prefer more frames especially with any fast moving gameplay or ones that require you to move the camera more. Playing Legacy of Thieves collection with the 120 fps mode was like getting a new TV, especially since my set doesn't handle motion well at 30 hz. In combat even going from 60 to 120 was a big difference.

I can understand the higher res mode preference if its a more walking sim, smell the roses type experience. Anything action heavy I'll always prefer higher framerate. Can't even imagine playing something like Returnal at < 60 fps. Different strokes 🤷‍♂️

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I don't mind 60 FPS for certain single player games. Returnal I felt wouldn't work without 60 fps. And pretty much any FPS single player game I need 60 FPS like Metro as I will get motion sickness without it.

Im not against 60 FPS, but I like pretty graphics and prefer cutscenes in 30. That's why I use it in 3rd person narrative games. Until Dawn wouldn't not be preferable to me in 60 for example.