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Spoder

Member
Oct 24, 2017
234
From limited experience with a Wacom tablet I'd say it probably lacks some of the texture from a tablet, I like it though. I got a UK model so it came with a Lenovo Activepen 2 which is nice.

Thanks DrDamn. My main use for the new computer is going to be for drawing so it's important for me to get a lot of impressions about it before I buy.

Speaking of CSP, if you are running 1.7.3, make sure to updates it to the new 1.7.4 that came out yesterday ASAP. 1.7.3 seems to have bunch of big bugs, including losing multi touch function after few minutes of use.

That's good news. It annoyed me so much that I went back to 1.5 version. I'm going to wait this time.
 

DarthWoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,671
I've been playing around with the Direkt-Tek for a little bit, and I also got one of those cheapo VR controllers (10 days shipped from China, not too bad). I noticed that when I tried to use the same keybinds that you had in AntiMicro, it wasn't working too well, so I looked back in AntiMicro and found that none of the buttons on my controller seem to match up to what I'd expect them to be. The one I have looks identical to yours, although it was shipped in pretty much a layer of bubble wrap inside a tiny white plastic envelope, so I guess it's a cheap knockoff. I figured that you had the trigger as Ctrl, the stick up/down for undo/redo, left/right for cursor size, A/Y as canvas zoom, X/B unknown, power/back unknown, menu unknown.

I'm also having a bit of trouble with the stylus randomly moving the canvas rather than drawing. This was when I was being careful to keep my hand off the screen.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
I've been playing around with the Direkt-Tek for a little bit, and I also got one of those cheapo VR controllers (10 days shipped from China, not too bad). I noticed that when I tried to use the same keybinds that you had in AntiMicro, it wasn't working too well, so I looked back in AntiMicro and found that none of the buttons on my controller seem to match up to what I'd expect them to be. The one I have looks identical to yours, although it was shipped in pretty much a layer of bubble wrap inside a tiny white plastic envelope, so I guess it's a cheap knockoff. I figured that you had the trigger as Ctrl, the stick up/down for undo/redo, left/right for cursor size, A/Y as canvas zoom, X/B unknown, power/back unknown, menu unknown.

I'm also having a bit of trouble with the stylus randomly moving the canvas rather than drawing. This was when I was being careful to keep my hand off the screen.
OMG they made a cheap knock off of a cheap knock off! Knock-off-ception!

Seriously though. I'll bet that particular mold is being copied and passed around various factories in China since no one seems interested in protecting the design. It might look the same, but probably uses totally different board inside.
 

DarthWoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,671
OMG they made a cheap knock off of a cheap knock off! Knock-off-ception!

Seriously though. I'll bet that particular mold is being copied and passed around various factories in China since no one seems interested in protecting the design. It might look the same, but probably uses totally different board inside.
I see you had space bound to one of the buttons, I guess so as to move the canvas with the stylus. Do you know if there's a way in Windows to turn off any touch input other than the stylus?
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
I see you had space bound to one of the buttons, I guess so as to move the canvas with the stylus. Do you know if there's a way in Windows to turn off any touch input other than the stylus?
Other than going into device manager and disabling the touch panel? No. BTW with N-Trig, that might kill the pen as well. Only Wacom EMR has true separate pen and touch.
 

Cochese

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
6,960
So, my daughters are really into drawing art and want to get a digital tablet that connects to their laptops. I was looking at the Monoprice or Star03 at this price point. Suggestions?
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Surface Pro 4 i5 8GB 256GB
For $550 (no tax)

Good deal?
6th gen dual core i5 in 2018 for $550? It's bit of a tough pill to swallow IMO. But the RAM and SSD is pretty good for the money in Surface land.

If you need that tablet form factor, then yeah. If you can deal with convertible laptop form factor, than hellz no.
 

Swauny Jones

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,863
Get one of the older (used) Wacom tablets (Wacom Bamboo or Create). They can be had for cheap are are pretty great for what you're looking for.
So, my daughters are really into drawing art and want to get a digital tablet that connects to their laptops. I was looking at the Monoprice or Star03 at this price point. Suggestions?
 

Feral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,006
Your Mom
I got a Huion Kamvas GT 191 very recently, having only used a tablet with no pressure detection for digital drawing before, I find it a little odd that you have to apply quite a bit of pressure to draw lines and I'm not entirely sure if that's normal. Also, I haven't figured out yet why the pen buttons won't work with any program
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
I got a Huion Kamvas GT 191 very recently, having only used a tablet with no pressure detection for digital drawing before, I find it a little odd that you have to apply quite a bit of pressure to draw lines and I'm not entirely sure if that's normal. Also, I haven't figured out yet why the pen buttons won't work with any program
Doesn't sound normal. You should calibrate the pressure in the driver utility if it has one.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,130
So, my daughters are really into drawing art and want to get a digital tablet that connects to their laptops. I was looking at the Monoprice or Star03 at this price point. Suggestions?

You can buy the cheaper Wacom ones. They're pretty inexpensive. Wacoms are the best, imo.
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
Does anyone know if there's a way to organize brushes a la Photoshop 2018 but in CS6? Maybe a plugin or something? I always end up using the same 4-5 because it's such a tedious thing to actually manage them...
 

Jeronimo

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,377
Subbed. I have a Wacom that I need to get more use out of, but it's only a hobby so I only have limited time to devote.
 

Werd

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
472
Has anyone used a Lenova Yoga 720 13.3" model? Saw a 1TB SSD, 16 gb memory, 4k screen version + Pen for $938 on SlickDeals briefly this morning and I caved to going out of stock pressure and put an order in. In retrospect while the price seems quite good for getting those three things, it's still over $1K after tax for a laptop without a dedicated GPU.. little conflicted on it. Casualty of the form factor I suppose as the 15" version has a 1050 and was recommended earlier in the thread.

Also apparently the Windows April update busted a lot of these Lenova laptops touchscreen for the moment, weird.
 
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DarthWoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,671
Kind of a dumb situation, but I somehow accidentally pulled apart the sub-tools in the auto-select/magic wand onto the main toolbar (now there are multiple wand icons on the bar) and I can't figure out how to group them all back together. I've tried resetting default workspace, but that didn't do anything. Anyone know how to fix it?

Edit: This is on the Direkt-Tek hybrid I got. I also noticed that at some point after working a while, I can no longer zoom or pan with the touchscreen. I can still use the CSP options for it, but I don't know if it's a hardware issue, or if I tapped something on the menu (either CSP or Windows) that disabled it. It works fine if I shut down the laptop and restart it. Haven't tried just restarting CSP though.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Has anyone used a Lenova Yoga 720 13.3" model? Saw a 1TB SSD, 16 gb memory, 4k screen version + Pen for $938 on SlickDeals briefly this morning and I caved to going out of stock pressure and put an order in. In retrospect while the price seems quite good for getting those three things, it's still over $1K after tax for a laptop without a dedicated GPU.. little conflicted on it. Casualty of the form factor I suppose as the 15" version has a 1050 and was recommended earlier in the thread.

Also apparently the Windows April update busted a lot of these Lenova laptops touchscreen for the moment, weird.
It's probably the 7th gen dual core version. A lot of 7th gen models are on sales now that 8th quad core iterations are out. I checked these out at Best Buy. Other than the fact that the RAM is soldered in, it's a pretty nice machine. I whoreheartedly recommend the quad core version as long as it has 8GB of RAM.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,679
México
Kind of a dumb situation, but I somehow accidentally pulled apart the sub-tools in the auto-select/magic wand onto the main toolbar (now there are multiple wand icons on the bar) and I can't figure out how to group them all back together. I've tried resetting default workspace, but that didn't do anything. Anyone know how to fix it?

Edit: This is on the Direkt-Tek hybrid I got. I also noticed that at some point after working a while, I can no longer zoom or pan with the touchscreen. I can still use the CSP options for it, but I don't know if it's a hardware issue, or if I tapped something on the menu (either CSP or Windows) that disabled it. It works fine if I shut down the laptop and restart it. Haven't tried just restarting CSP though.

To fix the touch screen issue, you may need to upgrade to the latest version. I had the same issue and upgrading fixed it.
 

Werd

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
472
Thanks for the input earlier Shogmaster. Let it (Yoga 720 13", i7 8550u, 16 gb ram, 1 tb SSD) go through and yeah was 8th gen actually. Might as well post some thoughts on it if anyone is curious.

+ My first time using the 2 in 1 form factor, and I like it a lot. I had a Surface Pro 2 and while I got plenty of use out of it, I ended up disliking the lack of a real keyboard as the loosely attached one was terrible for casual use on a couch/bed/etc. and the 10" screen size was just a bit too cramped for my tastes as art tablet use. This seems like a much better approach at least on this 13" model's size/weight, the tablet tent and laptop modes all work well and the hinge is really solid. The keyboard feels fine to hold against the back in tablet mode, though I do worry it might get scratched.
+ General build quality is very solid, not a lot of flex, hinge is nice like I said, keyboard is good, etc. They do sell lower end models of this relatively cheaply so it's not top of the line, but still. Also the first time I've had a fingerprint reader on a laptop or phone, and it works great.. much preferred to constantly entering my PIN.
+ I didn't have any issues with the screen, updates, etc... probably shouldn't really be a positive but I had read some reports.
+ The digitizer seems good, and it came with the 2nd version of the Lenovo Pen when I was expecting the first. The side buttons are so low profile they can be a little hard to hit but it looks/feels decent not the cheapy that came with the Surface Pro 2. The Bluetooth button feature that has been added to many W10 pens is cool.
+ It might have been the 15 inch version, but I had heard something about fan noise.. no issues there, runs cool and silent for web browsing and such and under load the fans aren't bad.
~ The 4K screen is certainly a positive for the laptop, but I will say that other than the resolution itself the screen is good not great, haven't tested the color accuracy or anything but just not as bright/vibrant as some.
- I was disappointed to see the CPU is so heavily throttled. Obviously on a slim laptop there are cooling issues, but by default it only goes over 1.8 GHz (granted as an 8th gen quad core the performance is still pretty good) for brief moments. I did however read up and use a program called "ThrottleStop" to remove the throttling and tweak it myself to acceptable heat/fan levels after undervolting the CPU a bit. It seemed to handle ~2.6 GHz under extended load without overheating or draining the battery too bad. Need to run some benchmarks to see what effect the tweaking really had on it though.
- The obvious that I knew in advance, it's an integrated GPU so gaming performance is limited. After reading that the ram being in dual channel mode would get a little extra out of the GPU than most similar laptop configurations I hoped to get a little more performance than I have so far between that and my throttle tweaks.

Overall I'm pretty happy with it, though I'd be curious to get hands on with the 15 inch version and see how much the extra size/weight impacts my use. I have a feeling it's still small enough that I'd like that I'd probably take the tradeoff just for the fringe GPU uses traveling or such away from my desktop, but who knows.

Since I've been setting it up, I'll also mention the W10 software "Touch Me Studio" and "Tablet Pro" just for general info in the thread if it hasn't been mentioned yet. The gesture control from Touch Me is a huge upgrade on W10 usability in tablet format IMO, I have it set up to do thing like 3 finger rotation clockwise for volume up, counter-clockwise for down and various other system controls (brightness, play/pause for music, close program, etc.) that are much faster than opening up the icons on the taskbar or such. Can also quickly toggle them on/off if they are interfering with a program. Tablet Pro can do some of the same things, but is mostly for putting touch menu controls on the side of the screen for Photoshop shortcuts, etc.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Whoa... Thanks for such detailed impressions! Should be very helpful to othets.

Unfortunately the last 13.3" 2 in 1 with beefy none throttling CPU was the Fujitsu T902 from 2012 with 35W 3rd gen dual core i5/i7. I still use it. It performs better than my HP which has 8550u i7 in most raster art apps.

I think the trend is to replace 30+W CPUs with 15W ones in anything smaller than 17.3". Even the new 15.6" Yoga 730 replaced the 45W i7 on the 15.6" Yoga 720 with a 15W 8550u...
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,646
Texas
I'd love to get a recommendation for a solid hardware + software plan for a beginner that used to draw in his younger days and would like to start again- but this time just moving straight to digital.

I already own a pretty beefy desktop PC (maybe not up to snuff for current gaming but could certainly handle creative apps easily) albeit with a budget tier 1080p monitor. I like the idea of being able to draw anywhere though, especially drawing directly on the screen, but I'm skeptical of the tech in those products (convertibles that are pen-compatible).

Maybe I need to find a place that will let me test drive a device beyond just using a built in note taking app? (IE: a Samsung laptop at best buy)
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
I'd love to get a recommendation for a solid hardware + software plan for a beginner that used to draw in his younger days and would like to start again- but this time just moving straight to digital.

I already own a pretty beefy desktop PC (maybe not up to snuff for current gaming but could certainly handle creative apps easily) albeit with a budget tier 1080p monitor. I like the idea of being able to draw anywhere though, especially drawing directly on the screen, but I'm skeptical of the tech in those products (convertibles that are pen-compatible).

Maybe I need to find a place that will let me test drive a device beyond just using a built in note taking app? (IE: a Samsung laptop at best buy)
The best you can do is to go to Best Buy or MS store and use the Sketchpad within the Windows Ink Workspace icon on the taskbar. The pencil tool in that app is passable in testing pressure sensitive pens.

I am currently back on EMR only bandwagon. After years of trying out AES and MPP devices, I finally came to the conclusion that EMR is still king by a wide margin in pen capability. I fell back on my old trusty Fujitsu T902 for main portable work, and in the process of getting back my old Lenovo Helix 2nd gen from my sister in exchange for my Miix 700.

You can find used T902 for around $300~350 on eBay. If you are willing to do some work, try refurbing a T902. If not, you have the Samsung Notebook 9 Pro for $1350 or Samsung Galaxy Book 12 for around $1200 at Best Buy. Only caviat is that the new Sammy still haven't received Wacom Feel driver if you require Wintab for legacy apps.
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,646
Texas
Wow thank you for the solid reply! I'll probably go check out what's on display while I'm out running errands later today.

I'm assuming the Samsung's you listed use EMR? If you speak that highly of the tech then that's what I'd like to go with and avoid the headaches with the other 2 techs.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Wow thank you for the solid reply! I'll probably go check out what's on display while I'm out running errands later today.

I'm assuming the Samsung's you listed use EMR? If you speak that highly of the tech then that's what I'd like to go with and avoid the headaches with the other 2 techs.
As I've tried to explain in this thread's OP, there are pros and cons to each tech. EMR is not all roses. But it does give me the best pen feel and performance. Some might consider that not their #1 priority, but it's mine personally.

BTW, I explained this in more detail in another thread recently. Read it if you are interested in my reasons.

Others will prioritize things like convenience and might choose pro cap stuff like AES, MPP or Apple Pencil over EMR. Perfectly valid if you know exactly what you are after.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Acer Chromebook Spin 11 convertible available now at Best Buy for $299 with Wacom EMR

6211731_sd.jpg;maxHeight=1000;maxWidth=1000


Hey! It's a Chromebook! Hey it's a penabled touch convertible! Hey it's using Wacom EMR pen!

Who wants to take one for the team and report back? Don't forget to try the newly free TV Paint Android on it as well!
 

Werd

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
472
Anyone have any other particular devices to look at for off hand controllers? The touch menu program I mentioned is nice but I still like having a physical one available.

I have used a PS Move with my tablet monitor (XP-Pen 22, which I'm pretty meh on but it works) which after spending many hours working on a complicated control scheme actually works quite well, but as mentioned earlier in the thread requires a dedicated bluetooth (certainly not giving up the internal, and the Yoga only has one USB 3 port) and three pieces of software on the PC itself to get running all in all a bit much of a pain. And I think it was responsible for troubles I had with my other BT radio too.

Most of the VR controllers on Amazon either have too few buttons or just look so cheap (granted, cheap enough to just try it out possibly). Joy-Con was mentioned and yeah looking at that, anyone else got a specific thing to check out?

Also while in the realm of shortcut keys, a couple months ago I bought an Elgato Stream Deck when it was 33% off. It's not really necessary for drawing/painting, but for those who branch out into video editing, authotkey scripts and such it's a pretty neat bit of extra hardware on the desk to organize shortcuts with some thrown in for Photoshop/Clip Studio. And obviously it's actual intended use of streaming (which I don't do).
 

DeeDogg

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,509
Florida
Can someone help me out? I need an art tablet for $350-$500 but it needs to have great quality (great response time, resolution, pen detection, etc)
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,987
Really? Better than a wacom or huion for the same price?

Well, depends on what you will be doing. The iPad can do a heck of a lot more than a tablet display (and better at it at most things too), but you can't hook up an iPad as a display for your laptop or PC (well, you can, but it's not the best experience). So if you just want a simple drawing display to hook up to your PC, then one wouldn't go with an iPad.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Really? Better than a wacom or huion for the same price?
We need to better define "Tablet" lol. Let's call those "USB tablets" to indicate just a USB attached slate that allows you to use pressure sensitive pens with your computers.

So in that case, NO, iPad 2018 is NOT better than Wacom USB tablets. Not by a long shot.

Get a regular Intuos Pro tablet in small or medium size if you need tilt.

Get a $100 Intuos if you don't need it.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Digital art pad with a screen .Thats what i meant lol
Let's call those "Pen Displays".

iPad 2018 is not a Pen Display. It's Penabled computer. And that has benefits and disadvantages, same as Pen Displays has it's own pros and cons.

Penabled computers pros are mobility and simplicity. Their con is they are limited to the computing hardware and operating system they are married to, which limits flexibility and lifespan.

Pen Displays pros are flexibility and future proofing. You can use them with variety of computers, thus limitless choices of hardware power and operating systems and software. You can simply take your current or older Pen Display and keep using it with newer and newer computers as long as it keeps working. Wacom Pen Displays are notoriously long lasting. I still have a fully working first gen Cintiq 21UX which was new back in 2006. This is why Wacom keeps increasing the pressure level numbers every new gen arbitrarily. They are trying to give current owners with fully working Pen Displays a reason to upgrade to a new one. Of course, Pen Displays are cumbersome add-ons and can no way be described as simple and portablility friendly.

OK, having said all that, your budget precludes any new Pen Displays from Wacom. Their smallest new purchase is 13" last gen Cintiq 13HD that some retailers still have in stock, but still sell at $800ish. If you are willing to go with a used purchase, then you will be able to find a used 13HD in the $500 range easily. You can find 1st gen 21UX in the $500 range easily also. As long as they work, they are still perfectly wonderful Pen Displays, and certainly give you better pressure performance than anything using Projected Capacitive active pens, including the Apple Pencil on the iPad Pros.

As for Chinese Pen Displays being sold in your price range, I largely find them shitty for the use of thick, plastic LCD covers, which exacerbates parallax. Also, screeching plastic nibs on cheap plastic surfaces is something I would only wish on my worst enemies...
 

Zulith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,776
West Coast, USA
Amusing that Clip Studio Paint now has its own controller

tmc_02.png


https://www.clip-studio.com/clip_site/tool/items/tmc_plan

reminds me of the great "cheap" solution brought to us by our very own shog:



(which, btw, I still use and definitely recommend)

I might have to pick up one of these official ones though. Looks like it might come to "global" (english) soon judging by this listing?

https://www.amazon.com/CLIP-STUDIO-TABMATE-for-GLOBAL/dp/B07CNT946X/

btw shog, if you have used any other bluetooth controllers with success that you recommend over that cheap one let me know! I know some people use the a Switch Joycon which i'm sure is fine too.
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
Amusing that Clip Studio Paint now has its own controller

tmc_02.png


https://www.clip-studio.com/clip_site/tool/items/tmc_plan

reminds me of the great "cheap" solution brought to us by our very own shog:



(which, btw, I still use and definitely recommend)

I might have to pick up one of these official ones though. Looks like it might come to "global" (english) soon judging by this listing?

https://www.amazon.com/CLIP-STUDIO-TABMATE-for-GLOBAL/dp/B07CNT946X/

btw shog, if you have used any other bluetooth controllers with success that you recommend over that cheap one let me know! I know some people use the a Switch Joycon which i'm sure is fine too.


Is that thing cheap? bc I think I just broke my cheap amazon bought controller after a year of use and I need a new one lol.

I only tried the one that I broke, wired XBox 360 controller, and a PS Move stick. Out of the three only the PS Move one didn't work with my computer properly.

Thanks for this news! I'm gonna have to track this thing down.
 

DrDamn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
466
Amusing that Clip Studio Paint now has its own controller

tmc_02.png


https://www.clip-studio.com/clip_site/tool/items/tmc_plan

reminds me of the great "cheap" solution brought to us by our very own shog:



(which, btw, I still use and definitely recommend)

I might have to pick up one of these official ones though. Looks like it might come to "global" (english) soon judging by this listing?

https://www.amazon.com/CLIP-STUDIO-TABMATE-for-GLOBAL/dp/B07CNT946X/

btw shog, if you have used any other bluetooth controllers with success that you recommend over that cheap one let me know! I know some people use the a Switch Joycon which i'm sure is fine too.


Seems to be exactly what I'm looking for too. Need it released in Europe too.
 

Bearwolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
477
Ah this thread makes me regret not picking up a cintiq 21ux for $200 bucks...but is it usually safe to buy used? Anyone had bad experiences?
 
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Shogmaster

Shogmaster

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
2,598
THE STRUGGLE IS REAL

If you want to be amused watching me struggle to draw stuff (even though it started as how to draw for beginners), then click here.