To be fair, there is probably a good chunk that are uneducated or mis-informed about what unions can do for them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/01/24/majority-game-developers-want-unionize-few-are-convinced-it-will-happen/
Accordingly to this poll a couple months ago, 54% said yes to unionize so it isn't an overwhelming majority. Seems like there are still a lot of devs resistant to the idea
Decades of brain washing. It'll take time, but they got to push for it agressively.
it's clearly referring to the laws that people want to pass about labor and healthcare... not co workersUnions are you and your fellow workers. Definitely not the government.... ‽
It's somewhat of a joke yes... but theres some truth to it
The thing is though, based on your original post here you are against unions personally for absolutely ridiculous and flimsy reasons...Just me, personally, given the choice, I would prefer not to unionize my profession as a software developer.
Yea I know. Paid time off, parental leave, protection from arbitrary termination all sound like they really cut deep into that American Freedom™ . /sit's clearly referring to the laws that people want to pass about labor and healthcare... not co workers
we didn't fight to be free just to have the government tell us how to live our lives every step of the way.
I disagree... I don't think a government created entity can represent me better than I can represent myself.
I don't think the government can protect me better than I can protect myself. I'd rather represent myself.
lol what???I feel like you've learned about unions by swallowing Republican talking points.
Temp workers have it pretty hard, I'm not minimizing it, but It would be an incorrect statement to say none of that exists in the games industry.Yea I know. Paid time off, parental leave, protection from arbitrary termination all sound like they really cut deep into that American Freedom™ . /s
They will but at least they'll be compensated fairly for it.Are people here under the assumption that unionizing will mean devs wont work long hours?
we hate each other. brutal individualism
Are people here under the assumption that unionizing will mean devs wont work long hours?
Unions aren't goverment created entitites, they are worker created entitites (that's the whole point, to represent yourself and others working in your field).I don't think a government created entity can represent me better than I can represent myself.
Anyone who contributes to the creation and release of a video game is a game developer. That includes marketing, QA, localization, all of the roles that are CRITICAL to launching a complete title. I'm going to assume this was an honest mistake, but it's common enough I want to correct it because games don't get played without everyone who works on them playing a crucial part, and they all deserve recognition, not dismissal.
It's Cakely, he's always like thatYou've def been an overly intense aggro condescending jerk so far. :)
Anyone who contributes to the creation and release of a video game is a game developer. That includes marketing, QA, localization, all of the roles that are CRITICAL to launching a complete title. I'm going to assume this was an honest mistake, but it's common enough I want to correct it because games don't get played without everyone who works on them playing a crucial part, and they all deserve recognition, not dismissal.
Anyone who contributes to the creation and release of a video game is a game developer. That includes marketing, QA, localization, all of the roles that are CRITICAL to launching a complete title. I'm going to assume this was an honest mistake, but it's common enough I want to correct it because games don't get played without everyone who works on them playing a crucial part, and they all deserve recognition, not dismissal.
Everyone's needs should include:This is an issue for me. As a software developers I don't want to be lumped in with QA, localization and other departments, nor should those individuals want to be classified as developers. As Billy Awesomo rightly points out, developers are usually better positioned to fight back against exploitation. I feel for the QA kid who is being forced to work 80 hours a weeks for just over minimum wage. It's a lot easier for me as a developer to leave and find a job somewhere else.
There is a reason Hollywood has separate actor's, writer's and director's guilds. It's so they can negotiate for the unique needs of each type of profession.
I mean you can subdivide if you want as long as there's a certain unity in pushing for similar issues.Everyone's needs should include:
- 40 hour work week
- paybump for overtime
- paid time off
- parental leave
- etc
- etc
Subdividing the workforce into different cliques is significantly reducing the negotiating power of the entire workforce. There really is no good reason to have seperate unions for separate parts of the workforce within a company. All it does is pit the workers against each other.
Everyone's needs should include:
- 40 hour work week
- paybump for overtime
- paid time off
- parental leave
- etc
- etc
Subdividing the workforce into different cliques is significantly reducing the negotiating power of the entire workforce. There really is no good reason to have seperate unions for separate parts of the workforce within a company. All it does is pit the workers against each other.
Anyone who contributes to the creation and release of a video game is a game developer. That includes marketing, QA, localization, all of the roles that are CRITICAL to launching a complete title. I'm going to assume this was an honest mistake, but it's common enough I want to correct it because games don't get played without everyone who works on them playing a crucial part, and they all deserve recognition, not dismissal.
Fair enough, I'm not dismissing anyone.
My company has many roles and they're all critical to shipping a working product. Most of them don't have the job title of "Developer".
why not negotiate for all 3 things?These two points are why I don't want unions: "
I would be more than happy to work 60 hours a week on a fixed salary in exchange for a percentage of the profits my code creates. As a developer I am better positioned to negotiate that. QA guy? not so much.
- 40 hour work week
- paybump for overtime
Accordingly to this poll a couple months ago, 54% said yes to unionize so it isn't an overwhelming majority. Seems like there are still a lot of devs resistant to the idea.
I disagree... I don't think a government created entity can represent me better than I can represent myself.
I don't think the government can protect me better than I can protect myself. I'd rather represent myself.
As a member of a union, what a bizarre line of thought. I have zero "Byzantine" rules. As a matter of fact because of my union the company gives is more leeway than non union employees. The protection I get as well as great pay and benefits makes unionization worth while. I also don't have to fear my job being in jeopardy for any little thing. I don't have to walk around pins and needles around management and to be quite honest management is ultra respectful to me and my union brothers and sisters. This is the type of stereotype that needs to be shedded for people to realize unions are overall better for most professions.Professions that have been unionized gain an additional set of rules and regulations. Some of those rules can be strangely byzantine.
As a software developer I have absolutely no desire to unionize. It would only mean extra, ridiculous rules and regulations to follow.
Well said.Yes. Seems like people dismissing even the idea of unions have never actually read any collective agreement.
Those have plenty of leeway for individual and company level negotiations for extra, but the main things they provide is the secure baseline for every employee; rights, work safety, well-being, base salaries, benefits, process for handling issues/disputes and protections from discrimination. They don't define how people should do their actual work as that is the employers responsibility.
Are people here under the assumption that unionizing will mean devs wont work long hours?
I would be more than happy to work 60 hours a week on a fixed salary in exchange for a percentage of the profits my code creates. As a developer I am better positioned to negotiate that. QA guy? not so much.
100%I've said this before, but in my opinion the biggest issue is US worker's view on unions as industry specific. Unions should not be seen as the solution to one specific exploitative industry, but rather as the default dynamic between workers and employers. Having a "Video Game Developer Union" makes no sense, because there aren't that many video game developers, and the needs of game developers are no different from any other software developer or even IT professionals in general. Of course there is a need for some categorizations (maybe don't put game devs and constructions workers in the same union), but the key to an effective union is that it has many members, and that it is the standard. Basically, The US needs a massive culture shift in employer-employee power dynamics.