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Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,542
No screwage necessary. I am not attacking her on twitter. I am getting accused of being sexist for stating ,in a reaction to a tweet (!) that I disagree with AOC thinking that her appearance in SNL is awesome. That is it. That is the reality. So lets step back a notch and realize that you have your own opinion and I have mine. And yet here I am on a defensive. What is this?

If you think the left being seen as the people going crazy over an innocuous tweet about SNL is a good look then we have to disagree.
 

Deleted member 6122

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
533
If someone wants to make a nuanced argument around Pete, great, do it. But it shouldn't be too much to ask that it be done without comparing him to a serial killer.

Again, this is not about "policing speech." It's about raising awareness of homophobic tropes, their history and how people (often unknowingly) perpetuate them.

When you say "isn't not policing their speech more important then the goal of trying to erase all inferential misuse of tropes?" imagine applying that to a woman or a person of color and sexist or racist stereotypes. Like, Anne Coulter loves pushing weird "feminazi" shit It and people rightly shut her down for it. That's not "policing discourse" imo, that's calling out the bullshit use of a bullshit stereotype.
So is it ok if I call out your weaponizing of the language of social justice that was popularized as a way to fight for the marginalized in order to make sure no one says anything mean about Patrick Bateman
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
If someone wants to make a nuanced argument around Pete, great, do it. But it shouldn't be too much to ask that it be done without comparing him to a serial killer.

Again, this is not about "policing speech." It's about raising awareness of homophobic tropes, their history and how people (often unknowingly) perpetuate them.

When you say "isn't not policing their speech more important then the goal of trying to erase all inferential misuse of tropes?" imagine applying that to a woman or a person of color and sexist or racist stereotypes. Like, Anne Coulter loves pushing weird "feminazi" shit It and people rightly shut her down for it. That's not "policing discourse" imo, that's calling out the bullshit use of a bullshit stereotype.
feminazi isn't an inferential trope, it's a direct comparison to nazism

there are amoral (or deeply morally compromised) gay men as a matter of normal distribution and some of them will run for office

how ought that sentiment be expressed apart from don't misuse actual pathologies like sociopathy?

like i agree with that but that's a broader discursive failure
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,053
The problem is without the senate (and even with it in some cases) those policies don't get passed. There is likely no daylight between what Biden or Bernie could get passed into law. The biggest difference will be if Biden also allows us to win the senate. Bernie is very unlikely to have done this.

I hope people realize this.

Even in the best case scenario where the filibuster is nuked, it's hard to imagine 51 votes in the Senate for a lot of Bernie's plans.

We haven't had the Democratic trifecta in a while but let's not forget what happened when the "Freedom Caucus" ironically tanked some Republican legislation for not being extreme enough. We have to hope that Democrats in Congress don't tank good legislation for not being extreme enough or for being too extreme and I think that's something that isn't discussed enough when considering the feasibility of these plans. A whole lot of people were elected in 2018 on moderate platforms via white suburban voters and that will factor into whatever legislation gets passed.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
Given that Biden isn't pushing for even half of the policies that Sanders/Warren are for, it probably wouldn't matter who has the Senate at that point because the policies that may or may not pass aren't even on the table to begin with. At least Sanders or Warren would fight for them.

cBlTEqL.jpg

Those things are not going to pass in the form Bernie proposed them regardless of who occupies the White House. All will be a compromise.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Nuclear Energy has to be the way forward doesn't?

No, renewables are. But throwing away nuclear for renewables when we don't have viable storage solutions right now is going to make emissions reduction a nightmare and be stupid expensive for no good reason.

The order of goals needs to be

1) Kill coal
2) Replace coal with renewables, do not replace them with natural gas until you start hitting critical renewable saturation.
3) Keep our nuclear fleet steady at ~20%
4) As storage solutions increase in cost viability, replace natural gas with more renewables.

We can easily have a 40% non-hydro renewable, 20% nuclear, ~6% Hydro, ~30% natural gas energy mix by near the end of the decade with no technological breakthroughs or further advancements in storage or cost reductions.

And that's just really, ground level stuff. And if we actually make an attempt to reduce rogue natural gas emissions, we can make amazing headway in curbing methane emissions as well and actually make natural gas a shit ton better than coal.
 
Last edited:

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
If you think the left being seen as the people going crazy over an innocuous tweet about SNL is a good look then we have to disagree.

I'm honestly surprised that many people were upset over the SNL thing. SNL has been terrible for years for many different reasons, including giving folks like Trump or Dan fucking Crenshaw airtime and a platform, but them having Warren on isn't exactly anywhere close to that degree of tone-deafness. I think a lot of criticism came from the fact that Warren hadn't officially endorsed anyone while "busy" on SNL, but I don't think the two issues are related in any way to begin with.
 
Nuclear Energy has to be the way forward doesn't?


Not necessarily, Jessie is a smart person who I think hits the nail on the head when it comes to energy production.

Solar and Wind (especially offshore wind) will be the stars and will be supplemented/supported by other sources like Hydro, Nuclear, battery storage, etc.

Big Nuclear projects here in the states are most likely dead, but the future of nuclear are smaller more modular design the ones that can just fit in a truck.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Those things are not going to pass in the form Bernie proposed them regardless of who occupies the White House. All will be a compromise.

Hard to pass anything that isn't actually being fought for. Usually compromise starts with two sides meeting in the middle, not one side constantly placating the other while being fucked over on multiple major occasions in the past few decades by said side.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
feminazi isn't an inferential trope, it's a direct comparison to nazism

there are amoral (or deeply morally compromised) gay men as a matter of normal distribution and some of them will run for office

how ought that sentiment be expressed apart from don't misuse actual pathologies like sociopathy?

like i agree with that but that's a broader discursive failure
Disagree. Coulter trades in many sexist tropes, that just being one of them.

The "Feminazi." This is someone who has been determined, usually by men, to hate men. Usually this person doesn't hate men (until maybe she is called names by them), but instead the name-callers are judging because they feel threatened (a common theme with stereotypes). We can of course thank Rush Limbaugh for popularizing this awful, awful term, which he used to describe Gloria Steinem, Susan Sarandon, and others before kindly moving on to further criticisms, like "slut." Even the terms "feminist" and "activist," if used in a certain way, can take on the implications of this word, which is essentially just an insult from folks who are afraid that independent women are going to somehow undermine society. Fear is a nasty thing, isn't it?

10 Tropes About Women That Women Should Stop Laughing About

Stereotypes are powerful because they're easy, which is why we see them standing in again and again for "real" human qualities and characters. But they are also insidious, demonstrating so many ways to go wrong, and so few to go right.

Again, find nuanced ways to critique, there is a universe of possibilities without resorting to comparisons to a serial killer.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
Hard to pass anything that isn't actually being fought for. Usually compromise starts with two sides meeting in the middle, not one side constantly placating the other while being fucked over on multiple major occasions in the past few decades by said side.

Also hard to pass anything that just can't pass. It's not a matter of trying harder, the US government will not currently vote to nuke private insurance no matter what. It's just not gonna happen. Healthcare plans that can realistically pass into law are to the right of both Biden and Sanders.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,420
Seattle
It's renewables. Nuclear is actually prohibitively expensive to build out nowadays, but keeping existing reactors is critical for transitioning off of fossil fuels.
No, renewables are. But throwing away nuclear for renewables when we don't have viable storage solutions right now is going to make emissions reduction a nightmare and be stupid expensive for no good reason.

The order of goals needs to be

1) Kill coal
2) Replace coal with renewables, do not replace them with natural gas until you start hitting critical renewable saturation.
3) Keep our nuclear fleet steady at ~20%
4) As storage solutions increase in cost viability, replace natural gas with more renewables.

We can easily have a 40% non-hydro renewable, 20% nuclear, ~6% Hydro, ~30% natural gas energy mix by near the end of the decade with no technological breakthroughs or further advancements in storage or cost reductions.

And that's just really, ground level stuff.


Not necessarily, Jessie is a smart person who I think hits the nail on the head when it comes to energy production.

Solar and Wind (especially offshore wind) will be the stars and will be supplemented/supported by other sources like Hydro, Nuclear, battery storage, etc.

Big Nuclear projects here in the states are most likely dead, but the future of nuclear are smaller more modular design the ones that can just fit in a truck.



that makes a ton of sense, thanks everyone
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,426
Phoenix, AZ
Trumps response to the virus is going to basically hand us the election, and to think we picked Joe fucking Biden is infuriating. Lol
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Also hard to pass anything that just can't pass. It's not a matter of trying harder, the US government will not currently vote to nuke private insurance no matter what. It's just not gonna happen. Healthcare plans that can realistically pass into law are to the right of both Biden and Sanders.

I don't think giving up on something we haven't actually tried is worth the hypothetical assumption that private insurance will continue to fuck over millions of people every day. My dad is literally dead because he couldn't pay his insurance premiums, and I'll do what I can to fight against that until I die as well, because healthcare should not be determined by the amount of money in your bank account. I can't afford to assume the worst every time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
Disagree. Coulter trades in many sexist tropes, that just being one of them.



10 Tropes About Women That Women Should Stop Laughing About

Stereotypes are powerful because they're easy, which is why we see them standing in again and again for "real" human qualities and characters. But they are also insidious, demonstrating so many ways to go wrong, and so few to go right.

Again, find nuanced ways to critique, there is a universe of possibilities without resorting to comparisons to a serial killer.
okay if you think that feminazi is strong comparison despite how obviously loaded it is ,then yes that i concede that it all makes sense

i'm just letting you know that in my anecdotal experience that take is not really where queer discourse is at and it might come off as vanguarding to some people

i'll drop it though
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
3,002
It may be the case too, though probably liberals would rather have Biden than Sanders.

Given how Sanders was expected to be a millstone around the neck of reps/senators in vulnerable districts/states, that's understandable. Heck, just today Joe's position in the race convinced the Democratic Party's best hope for a senate seat in Montana to jump into the race. I can assure you he wouldn't have done that if Sanders had been in the lead.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,133
Chile
Warren doesn't want to jump aboard a sinking ship. It's as simple as that. It doesn't benefit her. It doesn't benefit the party. It doesn't benefit Bernie.

It really doesn't matter much it seems. Warren was clearly losing for a long time before ST. If she was gonna endorse Sanders, it should have been done before ST to keep momentum.

Also hard to pass anything that just can't pass. It's not a matter of trying harder, the US government will not currently vote to nuke private insurance no matter what. It's just not gonna happen. Healthcare plans that can realistically pass into law are to the right of both Biden and Sanders.

Starting point does matter, which is what the poster was saying. How much will Biden compromise compared to Sanders in order to pass them?
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
okay if you think that feminazi is strong comparison despite how obviously loaded it is ,then yes that i concede that it all makes sense

i'm just letting you know that in my anecdotal experience that take is not really where queer discourse is at and it might come off as vanguarding to some people

i'll drop it though
That's fine, we can continue by PM if you like or just drop it. And as an actual queer person, I can tell you that this is very much part of the conversation.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
I don't think giving up on something we haven't actually tried is worth the hypothetical assumption that private insurance will continue to fuck over millions of people every day. My dad is literally dead because he couldn't pay his insurance premiums, and I'll do what I can to fight against that until I die as well, because healthcare should not be determined by the amount of money in your bank account. I can't afford to assume the worst every time.

I sympathize but Bernie's legislative agenda will not pass into law. That's not a silly assumption, just look at congress. He is unlikely to win the senate if he's at the top of the ticket. How does m4a become law without control of all three? Can you explain a reasonable path at all?


Starting point does matter, which is what the poster was saying. How much will Biden compromise compared to Sanders in order to pass them?

Starting point doesn't matter if both are left of what can pass. Bernie will compromise more than Biden and pass the same thing.
 
I'm curious, has the environmental impact of offshore wind turbines on migratory or sea birds been studied?

I think so there has been studies that it tends to be better for birds and tends to avoid some of the pitfalls on land wind tends to be stuck with but I wouldn't know where to find them exactly but Europe & the UK are going big into Offshore Wind.

One way would be to look at patterns and avoid placing them in hotspots for migratory birds.

I would ask people like Jenkins and Maddie Stone on twitter if there been any big/notable studies in this field.
 
May 5, 2018
238
People being like "he can't get anything passed so let's jump into the ocean" don't get it. Yeah, it's an uphill battle to get it passed. That's the whole point of going so hard. There's going to have to be compromises. Do you want healthcare to start a compromise from an already compromised position? Or do you want people to get healthcare and be covered and not be bankrupt and not die.

Seriously the right has pushed things so far their way over the last 30 years that people are timid of any kind of reform. Safety, they say. Normalcy.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,053

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,097
Ok, again:

Joe Biden does not have a functional healthcare plan.

As president, Biden will stop this reversal of the progress made by Obamacare. And he won't stop there. He'll also build on the Affordable Care Act with a plan to insure more than an estimated 97% of Americans. Here's how:


  • Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn't doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you're covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient's doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.

  • Increasing the value of tax credits to lower premiums and extend coverage to more working Americans. Today, families that make between 100% and 400% of the federal poverty level may receive a tax credit to reduce how much they have to pay for health insurance on the individual marketplace. The dollar amount of the financial assistance is calculated to ensure each family does not have to pay more than a certain percentage of their income on a silver (medium generosity) plan. But, these shares of income are too high and silver plans' deductibles are too high. Additionally, many families making more than 400% of the federal poverty level (about $50,000 for a single person and $100,000 for a family of four), and thus not qualifying for financial assistance, still struggle to afford health insurance. The Biden Plan will help middle class families by eliminating the 400% income cap on tax credit eligibility and lowering the limit on the cost of coverage from 9.86% of income to 8.5%. This means that no family buying insurance on the individual marketplace, regardless of income, will have to spend more than 8.5% of their income on health insurance. Additionally, the Biden Plan will increase the size of tax credits by calculating them based on the cost of a more generous gold plan, rather than a silver plan. This will give more families the ability to afford more generous coverage, with lower deductibles and out-of-pocket costs.

  • Expanding coverage to low-income Americans. Access to affordable health insurance shouldn't depend on your state's politics. But today, state politics is getting in the way of coverage for millions of low-income Americans. Governors and state legislatures in 14 states have refused to take up the Affordable Care Act's expansion of Medicaid eligibility, denying access to Medicaid for an estimated 4.9 million adults. Biden's plan will ensure these individuals get covered by offering premium-free access to the public option for those 4.9 million individuals who would be eligible for Medicaid but for their state's inaction, and making sure their public option covers the full scope of Medicaid benefits. States that have already expanded Medicaid will have the choice of moving the expansion population to the premium-free public option as long as the states continue to pay their current share of the cost of covering those individuals. Additionally, Biden will ensure people making below 138% of the federal poverty level get covered. He'll do this by automatically enrolling these individuals when they interact with certain institutions (such as public schools) or other programs for low-income populations (such as SNAP).Learn more about how Biden's plan for health care benefits communities of color >>
Lifted from his website.

Maybe you don't like the plan, but I think he explains it pretty clearly.

He wants to extend coverage as afforded by the ACA, and offer a 'Medicare program' for people to buy into.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
People being like "he can't get anything passed so let's jump into the ocean" don't get it. Yeah, it's an uphill battle to get it passed. That's the whole point of going so hard. There's going to have to be compromises. Do you want healthcare to start a compromise from an already compromised position? Or do you want people to get healthcare and be covered and not be bankrupt and not die.

This is magical thinking though. Why will Bernie manage to pass more progressive healthcare than Biden if both are to the left of what can get through? Explain the path.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Hey, it's most important to beat Trump and do minimal progress than doing actual progress to stop climate doom.
It's most important to beat Trump and do minimal progress (if we accept that this is what is being offered) -- than to not beat Trump and actively regress whatever progress was made in the past, let alone "doing actual progress"
 
I'm curious, has the environmental impact of offshore wind turbines on migratory or sea birds been studied?

This paper could help:
t.co

Geophysical potential for wind energy over the open oceans

Wind speeds over open ocean areas are often higher than those in the windiest areas over land, which has motivated a quest to develop technologies that could harvest wind energy in deep water environments. However, it remains unclear whether these open ocean wind speeds are higher because of...

Carbon brief is also a great source but I have no idea if they have a paper about off-shore wind.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
I sympathize but Bernie's legislative agenda will not pass into law. That's not a silly assumption, just look at congress. He is unlikely to win the senate if he's at the top of the ticket. How does m4a become law without control of all three? Can you explain a reasonable path at all?

Sure, continue fighting for M4A while also voting out those who oppose giving healthcare to every American. Actually attempting to fight for the people as opposed to immediately compromising with Republicans, who have zero interest in actually helping people outside of the rich, would be a good start.
 
Jun 20, 2019
2,638
joebiden.com

Plan to Protect and Build on Obamacare | Joe Biden

Joe Biden will protect and build on Obamacare by giving Americans more choice, reducing health care costs, and making the system less complex to navigate.

Is this not a workable plan or am I missing something?
It is not a plan to reduce costs or increase coverage. It's a plan to establish a "public option" with no direction on what it would cost or how it would operate.

A public option is only as good as its mandate. For example, a public option that is not allowed to be cheaper than private plans is worthless. Since there is no mandate there is no way of estimating program costs. Since there is no mandate or program costs there is no way to determine who it would help, if anyone.

It's a completely hollow proposal with those specifics.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
This paper could help:
t.co

Geophysical potential for wind energy over the open oceans

Wind speeds over open ocean areas are often higher than those in the windiest areas over land, which has motivated a quest to develop technologies that could harvest wind energy in deep water environments. However, it remains unclear whether these open ocean wind speeds are higher because of...

Carbon brief is also a great source but I have no idea if they have a paper about off-shore wind.

Carbon Brief probably has papers on everything tbh, it's the best source of energy based news and overall breaking down science literature.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,097
Sure, continue fighting for M4A while also voting out those who oppose giving healthcare to every American. Actually attempting to fight for the people as opposed to immediately compromising with Republicans, who have zero interest in actually helping people outside of the rich, would be a good start.

Forget compromising with Republicans.

You would have to compromise with Democrats first.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
People being like "he can't get anything passed so let's jump into the ocean" don't get it. Yeah, it's an uphill battle to get it passed. That's the whole point of going so hard. There's going to have to be compromises. Do you want healthcare to start a compromise from an already compromised position? Or do you want people to get healthcare and be covered and not be bankrupt and not die.
The problem is that Sanders has a pattern of giving up rather than putting his nose down and grinding out the work when it comes to both legislating and campaigning. He's rarely been the guy to put in the work hammering out compromise deals.
 
May 5, 2018
238
Seriously the right has pushed things so far there way over the last 30 years that people are timid of any kind of reform.
This is magical thinking though. Why will Bernie manage to pass more progressive healthcare than Biden if both are to the left of what can get through? Explain the path.
how will Biden pass anything when Trump defeats him like every non-moderate news source says he will? Now that's magical thinking
 

Wordballoons

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,061
Yeah believing that Biden will actually address healthcare is ... naive. That's why I'd be so peeved at 8 years of him. We'd be kicking the issue down the line for a decade at least. Likely two given that republican would come in after two terms of any dem.
 
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