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Defund the Police vs Abolish the Police
- Thread starter Deleted member 4461
- Start date
The reform is about moving public money to other services that results in better safety, it does not mean no one to call when a violent crime happens and it doesn't mean overnight. A safer society doesn't make for a growing private security market. Unfortunately defund implies leaving a vacuum and allows for wilful misunderstanding.
What do you think people mean when they're saying "defund the police"
In this thread: an army of white people who've never had a single experience with the police beyond a traffic ticket explains why keeping a system of extreme racism and injustice is actually a good idea.
Defund as stated in the OP is not at all getting rid of the police.
I'm all for defunding, retraining, and reforming, but abolishing? How do we handle organized crime, murder, and sex trafficking without law enforcement?
I guess maybe I'm using it incorrectly. But then it would mean such a wide arrange of values to be fairly worthless. I don't really care about a 5% budget reduction.
Abolish the police.. lmao these pies in the sky 'dreams'. What the US needs is police reform and restructure from an outsiders PoV. There are actually countries with working law enforcments and without much police brutality at all if any, look at what they do. Also the police don't need all that military gear outside of a few SWAT teams when you actually need something for i.e hostage rescue or such.
Always been my understanding of it.
In order to abolish you must first defund to shrink em, lessening their power and give the funds to the social programs. Given enough time for those programs to be allowed to grow and for culture to accept a world with fewer cops you can move to abolishing because there's systems that are already working to prevent and treat crime and social problems.
As a Finn, observing the ongoing crisis from afar, this article is something that I've wanted to contribute to this discussion for a long time:
www.cbsnews.com
Police are armed in Finland, but rarely use their guns — just roughly 10 times per year — because they are taught that they should only reach for their weapons in the most dire situations.
Having the presence of mind to sort through the different options available to an officer before reaching for a gun is of particular importance, Rikander said. Even after three years of college, including time spent working in a police internship-like setting, 30% of a student's final grade is a series of combination personal interviews and psychological tests intended to ensure that young Finnish cops can be trusted with their guns and power.
One of the goals of the policing system in Finland is to instill public confidence in law enforcement, Rikander said, citing studies that show more than 90% of people trust police.
Police = racist, trigger happy, brutal power abuser does not have to be true, but it takes.. dare I say socialist approach when it comes to building trustworthy public institutions, a lot of time and pooling public resources to get there.
Yet, I just can't emphasis enough how big of a thing that trust in police is - most people here really see the police as someone who serves us, someone you could count on in any situation, a friend. To someone currently experiencing what's going on in the US it must be unimaginable. Sometimes I feel Americans fall little bit victims to their own exceptionalism, failing to even consider that other societies might have figured out some stuff better than they have.
Some U.S. police train for just a few weeks, in some countries they train for years
Norway and Finland require a three-year police education, ending with a bachelor's degree in policing
www.cbsnews.com
Police are armed in Finland, but rarely use their guns — just roughly 10 times per year — because they are taught that they should only reach for their weapons in the most dire situations.
Having the presence of mind to sort through the different options available to an officer before reaching for a gun is of particular importance, Rikander said. Even after three years of college, including time spent working in a police internship-like setting, 30% of a student's final grade is a series of combination personal interviews and psychological tests intended to ensure that young Finnish cops can be trusted with their guns and power.
One of the goals of the policing system in Finland is to instill public confidence in law enforcement, Rikander said, citing studies that show more than 90% of people trust police.
Police = racist, trigger happy, brutal power abuser does not have to be true, but it takes.. dare I say socialist approach when it comes to building trustworthy public institutions, a lot of time and pooling public resources to get there.
Yet, I just can't emphasis enough how big of a thing that trust in police is - most people here really see the police as someone who serves us, someone you could count on in any situation, a friend. To someone currently experiencing what's going on in the US it must be unimaginable. Sometimes I feel Americans fall little bit victims to their own exceptionalism, failing to even consider that other societies might have figured out some stuff better than they have.
How about you actually advocate for removing racism and injustice and their root causes instead of the whole system that is plagued by them, which actually serve a purpose in most civilized and modern countries.
And yes I am white and yes, police brutality and injustice is nowhere close to the US in my country so I know my opinion is completely irrelevant, just discussing in good faith about a cause I certainly support FWIW.
Is there any Police Abolitionist writing that goes in depth into how communities deal with violent individuals without cops? Seen plenty pn how community programs can prevent violence, but nothing on how the community responds when prevention fails.
Sure. The root cause of the racism and injustice of the police is the police. I'm advocating for removing them.
Defund yes, abolish? Hell no
reform the police? Do a mass culling and maybe do some actual psyche training by people that don't train you to be a predator. But to straight up abolish the police? No
reform the police? Do a mass culling and maybe do some actual psyche training by people that don't train you to be a predator. But to straight up abolish the police? No
I have to imagine that anyone who says "abolish the police" lives in a pretty fucking safe bubble lol.
What a crazy, stupid notion.
Do they need to be defunded, have their budgets reallocated, receive better training, and more? Hell yes, but abolish? Lol.
What a crazy, stupid notion.
Do they need to be defunded, have their budgets reallocated, receive better training, and more? Hell yes, but abolish? Lol.
"the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice"
definitely describes many posters here
definitely describes many posters here
I absolutely think Police organization need a major overhaul, pretty much reboot the whole thing, less militarization and more intensive character training and vetting. If someone steps so much a toe out of line fire their ass without hesitation and don't let them back in.
But complete abolishment? Like forgive me if I come across as naive but I don't see how that works. You cam absolutely increase funding to things that will lower crime, it's what they can and should do. But crime will still exist in some shape or for all the same. Like seriously if some nutjob goes around hurting people what then? If someone steal someones car what then?
Some form of law enforcement seems necessary, if even a small amount, so if the police are gone what is the alternative? And please for the love off god don't think this is me trying to go to bat for the current organization, I just don't see how this is supposed to work.
But complete abolishment? Like forgive me if I come across as naive but I don't see how that works. You cam absolutely increase funding to things that will lower crime, it's what they can and should do. But crime will still exist in some shape or for all the same. Like seriously if some nutjob goes around hurting people what then? If someone steal someones car what then?
Some form of law enforcement seems necessary, if even a small amount, so if the police are gone what is the alternative? And please for the love off god don't think this is me trying to go to bat for the current organization, I just don't see how this is supposed to work.
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Spike Lee Cautions Against “Defund The Police” Message, Warning Trump Tries to “Twist the Narrative”
Spike Lee is worried that the recent "Defund the Police" movement in the wake of the killing of George Floyd will have adverse effects with President Donald Trump perverting the message to stoke fear.
www.hollywoodreporter.com