MikeHattsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,997
He talks about theatre specifically and mentions he agrees with what Ralph Fiennes said on the subject, so I looked up what that worthless tool said and, well, I agree.

www.theguardian.com

Scrap trigger warnings for theatre audiences, says Ralph Fiennes

Audiences should be ‘shocked and disturbed’ by the impact of theatre, says Schindler’s List and Harry Potter actor

There's a video of that as well:

View: https://x.com/BBCPolitics/status/1756646700779798607
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,287
Metro Detriot
Because journalists ask leading questions to bait actors into saying something a bit controversial, then they quote it out of context or elevate it beyond what it was ever intended to be (often for their target demographic), then Internet rage ensues with its attendant clicks.

Seriously, if any of us were in a room with Matt Smith and gave some of the excellent examples given in this thread, I'm 100% confident he'd say "sure, I see that, that's not really what I was trying to talk about" and it'd be fine.

But hey, let the anger continue.

This.

Actors are privy to behind the scenes working of making the product we consume. He may have run into cases where the script said one thing, but some executive, producer, or bean counter changed it because of the possible trigger warning they would have to air. A script may call for X to happen. To appeal to a broader audience, they may sanitize or remove the scene all together.

I can see from an actors' POV how trigger warnings can be harmful in making art. Instead of being informative, some higher up are using them to guide to what to show on screen for maximum profit. No actor wants to be told to tone down their acting or receive muted scripts. From that angle, trigger warnings can be seen as a form of censorship.

Personally, I am fine with trigger warnings. But it is not hard to imagine the behind the scene impact they have on what scripts get chosen to be made to maximize profit.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,070
I swear, the worst argument for anything is, when I was young we never had...
Yeah, well, we learned better since then, didn't we, old man?
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,006
I do think there is some nuance, they can be useful, but there are times where they can have the adverse effect of basically putting you on edge the entire time waiting for what the trigger warning mentioned to happen.
 

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,448
NYC
He's right in a sense, but not due to trigger warnings or respectable sensibilities - studio execs who really have no grasp on these things overcompensate to keep things safe and often strip any complexity (& growth) out of stories and characters by result

As more people who actually understand these complexities get into leadership positions I think this watered down approach to storytelling will end, as it is not what anyone actually is asking for or require. But again, that is lost on many in charge.
 

Aselith

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,162
He's right in a sense, but not due to trigger warnings or respectable sensibilities - studio execs who really have no grasp on these things overcompensate to keep things safe and often strip any complexity (& growth) out of stories and characters by result

As more people who actually understand these complexities get into leadership positions I think this watered down approach to storytelling will end, as it is not what anyone actually is asking for or require. But again, that is lost on many in charge.

Have you really seen that? I mean Blink Twice has just come out and this dude is on House of the Dragon which certainly doesn't sugarcoat things.

Where are you seeing complexity getting stripped out of things?
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,185
It's a very silly way to view such a non-issue, but I'm not surprised some privileged and often old people feel that way.

Most people don't even pay attention to CW/TWs unless they think they might be impacted by them. The idea that they're leading to stories being "dumbed down" or shying away from scary or difficult topics just straight up doesn't have any basis in reality, it is interesting to see how out of touch some people can become though.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,046
There was one in front of Blink Twice, which I think is the first time I ever saw a trigger warning in a movie theater. And besides anything else, I feel like it seriously spoiled a major reveal of the movie!
 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,934
I don't disagree. It doesn't really bother me, but I would prefer no warnings.

That said, you pretty much always know when sexual assault or rape is going to happen now, and the whole time I'm thinking to myself, is this going to be the scene?
 

faint

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,330
I sorta agree with him. I don't like them in relatively gruesome shows like The Boys or GoT because it'll often spoil the climax of the episode. There is a level of shock value that I think makes those shows great. Having had no knowledge of the Red Wedding before it aired, if that was given some type of cw related to a current event, I would have been far less shocked at what I was watching.
 

KezayJS1

Member
Apr 25, 2021
2,128
I see where he's coming from, I just don't agree with it. You can still have these scenes of "shock" within the work and I don't believe a proactive warning takes away from that. Sure, the audience is bracing for the moment but the context and action of everything isn't going to be dampened as a result.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
13,120
So, I agree with him and also disagree in equal measure.

The Film Colossal was marketed as quirky comedy where the main character falls asleep and wakes up a Kaiju terrorizing Korea but doesn't really remember doing it.

It turns out the movie is about her abusing alcohol because of a past abusive relationship and the monster in her is her unresolved trauma. It was extremely effectively done and a real gut punch that shocked me. But my wife who has a history as a victim of abuse basically shut down completely for weeks because of it.

So like, he *is* correct that trigger warnings sort of spoil the narrative intent of a lot of films. And I get how that would be frustrating but also Ive seen what someone having a trauma response to content looks like and thats not really worth it. Also, I do mean this - if your art can't stand up beyond the "shock" moment it probably wasn't that compelling anyway because on repeat viewings it would be a lesser experience.

Like Fight Club is more than just its plot twist. Its a great film going in knowing the twist.
 

nicoreese

Member
Jan 18, 2018
1,073
The only trigger warning I don't like is if it spoils the episode or film by straight up saying "there's suicide in this." It's a fine line to walk because I understand the intention.
 

BradenAndEggs

Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,779
Because journalists ask leading questions to bait actors into saying something a bit controversial, then they quote it out of context or elevate it beyond what it was ever intended to be (often for their target demographic), then Internet rage ensues with its attendant clicks.

Seriously, if any of us were in a room with Matt Smith and gave some of the excellent examples given in this thread, I'm 100% confident he'd say "sure, I see that, that's not really what I was trying to talk about" and it'd be fine.

But hey, let the anger continue.

Yeah, how do people keep falling for engagement farms like this?

Is this all the modern internet is doomed to be?
 

MmNow

Member
Apr 2, 2021
178
But hey, let the anger continue.
It's this that doesn't get talked about. The clickbait websites are just monetising the issue.

"Fuck you Matt Smith. Read a book, you moron" is a terrible response. Imagine someone saying that in person - it's utterly unhinged. But it's normalised and encouraged in online spaces. And the more nuanced the topic, the more encouraged it is.

Meanwhile the interesting study on the previous page saying trigger warnings may do more harm than good has been completely ignored for yet more people chiming in about how old and fucking stupid Matt Smith is.
 

Ambient80

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,951
When reading the full quote in context, I think the anger about his answer is a bit over the top. Some of y'all are being rage-baited a bit.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,321
To be honest him using Doctor Who as his yardstick for "shocking in a controlled way" makes it sound like he would get why a content warning would be put before a TV show that had say, an explicit rape scene. Doctor Who at its worst doesn't really have anything in it to merit an appropriately applied trigger warning.
I found the scene disturbing in 'A Good Man goes to War' where a character is holding a baby and it collapses into gooey flesh, it reminded me of still birth, and some of the scenes with historical era racism like a businessman harassing Bill Potts. I think Doctor Who has pushed boundaries at times for a family show.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,669
When reading the full quote in context, I think the anger about his answer is a bit over the top. Some of y'all are being rage-baited a bit.

Seriously. We have people calling him a moron and an asshole, while reading it he seems like he would be perfectly reasonable discussing the subject in a fairly nuanced way. I can't help but wonder if people would react as strongly if the subject came up over lunch at work? And if so, how would you even function in a society that doesn't have 100% consensus on every sensitive subject?
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,070
I'm disappointed to see so many people dismissing this or agreeing with it. However 'out of context' you want to claim it is, the man derided this issue using the term "trigger warning" which has a very specific meaning, and it's very much about not being forced to unexpectedly relive terrible trauma you have suffered as though it was happening again. Multiple posters have explained this. I did expect more understanding of these experiences on Era rather than placing a greater importance on the annoyance of being spoiled.
 

andymoogle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,682
Games shouldn't have trigger warnings for flashing lights either. It's much better when you are surprised by the flashing lights.
 

BBboy20

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,409
But I think the impact of theatre should be that you're shocked and you should be disturbed. I don't think you should be prepared for these things and when I was young, (we) never had trigger warnings for shows.

The British never had the "Viewer discretion is advised." message?
 

Aselith

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,162
But I think the impact of theatre should be that you're shocked and you should be disturbed. I don't think you should be prepared for these things and when I was young, (we) never had trigger warnings for shows.

The British never had the "Viewer discretion is advised." message?

And film ratings?
 

Zaph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
But I think the impact of theatre should be that you're shocked and you should be disturbed. I don't think you should be prepared for these things and when I was young, (we) never had trigger warnings for shows.

The British never had the "Viewer discretion is advised." message?
"Viewer discretion is advised" is an americanism. For live theatre there are just age restrictions, but even that is quite recent. Often it would just say "not suitable for children" etc on the poster
 

AzorAhai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,368
I agree that it's annoying, but still we must find a solution for the minority of "triggered" people, for whom the shock is too much.

Maybe put it at the back of physical copies and in databases (like IMDB) instead?
 

Canas Renvall

Member
Mar 4, 2018
2,779
I'm disappointed to see so many people dismissing this or agreeing with it. However 'out of context' you want to claim it is, the man derided this issue using the term "trigger warning" which has a very specific meaning, and it's very much about not being forced to unexpectedly relive terrible trauma you have suffered as though it was happening again. Multiple posters have explained this. I did expect more understanding of these experiences on Era rather than placing a greater importance on the annoyance of being spoiled.
You're arguing against ghosts. A vast majority of people here, even those who wish to be able to opt out of trigger warning or content warnings, agree that they should exist for the people that need them. What you seem to take umbrage with is that people are understanding of the context behind the ragebait quotes. That he's (unknowingly, it would seem) conflating trigger warning and content warning, which the publication is likely knowingly using to their advantage to farm outrage for money. If he doesn't know the difference, and nobody tells him there's a difference, how is he supposed to know to research the difference?

As several posters have said, people are getting ragebaited hard by inflammatory headlines.
 
Mar 11, 2020
7,463
This.

Actors are privy to behind the scenes working of making the product we consume. He may have run into cases where the script said one thing, but some executive, producer, or bean counter changed it because of the possible trigger warning they would have to air. A script may call for X to happen. To appeal to a broader audience, they may sanitize or remove the scene all together.

I can see from an actors' POV how trigger warnings can be harmful in making art. Instead of being informative, some higher up are using them to guide to what to show on screen for maximum profit. No actor wants to be told to tone down their acting or receive muted scripts. From that angle, trigger warnings can be seen as a form of censorship.

Personally, I am fine with trigger warnings. But it is not hard to imagine the behind the scene impact they have on what scripts get chosen to be made to maximize profit.
This is exactly what i was thinking reading this thread. If these are the context we're talking about it absolutely is a problem as it can reshape our telling of stories just to appease everyone. Warning are meant to be exactly that, warnings, not a guide on how to never make anything remotely bad.

This makes me think of the Sokka bullshit in the new Avatar adaptation.

Not a lot here thinking like this. But these actors may be more privvy to events that have happened than we are, and warnings need to just be seen as warnings.
 

Memento Mori

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,220
Not a fan of seeing the warnings because chances are you can already figure out who or what the trigger warning is happening to before the message leaves the sceen and sometimes that impending dread for that character makes the viewing experience worse.

But I understand why they are there.
This was certainly the case with Blink Twice recently, I didn't know anything about the plot beforehand and the trigger warning basically made clear what the whole story of the film was going to be.

The information should certainly exist but I don't think putting it right before the film is best. The BBFC's website is a good resource for this for anyone who wants to check a film in advance.
 

Crespo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
I'm against censoring/"dialing down" content to make it more agreeable. I have zero issues with offering a warning prior to showing someone extreme/potentially triggering content so that they can be properly informed about what they're getting into.
Pretty much this.
Because journalists ask leading questions to bait actors into saying something a bit controversial, then they quote it out of context or elevate it beyond what it was ever intended to be (often for their target demographic), then Internet rage ensues with its attendant clicks.

Seriously, if any of us were in a room with Matt Smith and gave some of the excellent examples given in this thread, I'm 100% confident he'd say "sure, I see that, that's not really what I was trying to talk about" and it'd be fine.

But hey, let the anger continue.
Also this, probably.
 

hikarutilmitt

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 16, 2017
12,123
I imagine full screen text warnings before the movie/show like Blink Twice just had.
Wow, I totally missed that because I was off trying to refill my popcorn before the movie started. Wife said I didn't miss anything because I came in on the shot of the lizard on the rock.

Through the movie though, uhhhhhh I can imagine what the warning was about because damn.
 

HazySaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,366
West Yorkshire, UK
i dont get these British actors in particular complaining about trigger warnings for TV shows, for as long as i can remember there's been content warnings before the start
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,706
The way right-wing rhetoric has infected important conversations sucks so fucking much. Is there a serious issue in modern society with corporate culture imposing self-censorship onto artistic endeavors? Yes! Absolutely! 100%! Does that have anything to do with "Trigger Warnings" and the ever-important drive for embracing empathy into our lives where we can? Where it makes sense? Not at all.

And if we're being honest about this issue, the biggest victims of this new era of corporate censorship are also the ones who most support increasing and spreading the idea of "Trigger warnings." LGBT-adjacent content, POC-adjacent content, content that's left politically in any way (anything that could be considered feminist or environmentally-minded), whether it's deliberate or implied or accidental, is being increasingly stripped from mainstream art or rejected from being made in the first-place. Beer cans with trans influencers? Boycotted. Black Little Mermaid? Boycotted. POC in The Witcher? Boycotted. Pixar movies that are queer-coded? No more of those! The list is endless. Does any of that have to do with trigger warnings?

What the fuck do trigger warnings have to do with "everything being dialed and dumbed down?" Nothing. It has everything to do with the growing influence of right-wing wealth over art.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,209
I question the value of trigger warnings myself.

Great episode of Search Engine about this:

Search Engine Substack Link

This.

Actors are privy to behind the scenes working of making the product we consume. He may have run into cases where the script said one thing, but some executive, producer, or bean counter changed it because of the possible trigger warning they would have to air. A script may call for X to happen. To appeal to a broader audience, they may sanitize or remove the scene all together.

I can see from an actors' POV how trigger warnings can be harmful in making art. Instead of being informative, some higher up are using them to guide to what to show on screen for maximum profit. No actor wants to be told to tone down their acting or receive muted scripts. From that angle, trigger warnings can be seen as a form of censorship.

Personally, I am fine with trigger warnings. But it is not hard to imagine the behind the scene impact they have on what scripts get chosen to be made to maximize profit.

true, very good post.

He's right in a sense, but not due to trigger warnings or respectable sensibilities - studio execs who really have no grasp on these things overcompensate to keep things safe and often strip any complexity (& growth) out of stories and characters by result

As more people who actually understand these complexities get into leadership positions I think this watered down approach to storytelling will end, as it is not what anyone actually is asking for or require. But again, that is lost on many in charge.

also very good thoughts.
 
Feb 16, 2022
15,874
i dont get these British actors in particular complaining about trigger warnings for TV shows, for as long as i can remember there's been content warnings before the start
They aren't. They're(the examples posted in this thread, including Matt Smith's) are talking about stage/plays.

As several posters have said, people are getting ragebaited hard by inflammatory headlines.
Sometimes I wonder if people just want to feel the catharsis of being... above someone. Like having the moral high ground, and gesturing, "See?" I mean I'm guilty of it too at times. Even us pointing out how people are being baited is also another form of it. The world feels so fucked that whenever we get the chance to get a "win", we'd take it.

Edit: Cut down the quoted post so it's clear which part of the post I was reacting to
 
Last edited:

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,070
You're arguing against ghosts. A vast majority of people here, even those who wish to be able to opt out of trigger warning or content warnings, agree that they should exist for the people that need them. What you seem to take umbrage with is that people are understanding of the context behind the ragebait quotes. That he's (unknowingly, it would seem) conflating trigger warning and content warning, which the publication is likely knowingly using to their advantage to farm outrage for money. If he doesn't know the difference, and nobody tells him there's a difference, how is he supposed to know to research the difference?

As several posters have said, people are getting ragebaited hard by inflammatory headlines.
You're treating him like a child who can't be responsible for his own statements (he is on video saying this, it's not a misquote), and many posters here are simply saying they agree without the further context of "for people who need them"; only a few have made that stipulation.
 

HazySaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,366
West Yorkshire, UK
They aren't. They're(the examples posted in this thread, including Matt Smith's) are talking about stage/plays.


Sometimes I wonder if people just want to feel the catharsis of being... above someone. Like having the moral high ground, and gesturing, "See?" I mean I'm guilty of it too at times. The world feels so fucked that whenever we get the chance to get a "win", we'd take it.
oh ok i misunderstood. Still the idea of a content warning is nothing new so i still dont really get the issue
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,070
They aren't. They're(the examples posted in this thread, including Matt Smith's) are talking about stage/plays.


Sometimes I wonder if people just want to feel the catharsis of being... above someone. Like having the moral high ground, and gesturing, "See?" I mean I'm guilty of it too at times. Even us pointing out how people are being baited is also another form of it. The world feels so fucked that whenever we get the chance to get a "win", we'd take it.
How dare you. This is a very important issue for me and people close to me and you frame it in this gross manner, quoting someone responding to me. I've both had and seen the effects of reliving trauma through triggering content. It's not a "win" to argue against this. I can only suggest you learn some empathy. These are his words:

"Too much policing of stories and being afraid to bring them out because a climate is a certain way is a shame. I'm not sure I'm on board with trigger warnings," Smith said.
I can only give an adult giving a public interview enough respect to believe he knows what he is saying when he uses a specific term like "trigger warning".

This is too frustrating and I'm starting to lose my composure, so I'll stop posting. Safe to say I disagree strongly with people dismissing this.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,752
I'm curious if they ever bring up concrete examples—I'd even take anecdotes—of the kind of stage shows that have been "dumbed down" because of content warnings. Do shows now have legit changes to the way they're performed, or are they still the same show but now with a bit on the playbill or a poster outside the theatre mentioning possible triggers for some folks?
 
Feb 16, 2022
15,874
How dare you. This is a very important issue for me and people close to me and you frame it in this gross manner, quoting someone responding to me. I've both had and seen the effects of reliving trauma through triggering content. It's not a "win" to argue against this. I can only suggest you learn some empathy. These are his words:
I apologize, it wasn't meant to be an indictment towards you or what you're saying. I was referring more to the drive-bys that went straight into the most uncharitable interpretations after just seeing the headline. That was insensitive of me.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,258
Elf Tower, New Mexico
Trigger warning have been used lately for thing "that make people uncomfortable " when they are supposed to be for people who literally have ptsd and want to avoid stuff that will literally give them a panic attack.

I have to ask friends who've seen the thing if they have my specific triggers now.

Trigger warning: Violence does nothing for me.
 
Sep 10, 2018
224
There has been some really, for me, surprising and interesting studies in recent years that indicated that trigger warnings are actually not helpful at all to shield people suffering from trauma from unwanted negative emotions and instead could lead to heightened anticipatory anxiety. According to these studies, they are also not generally effective in keeping people from watching the things they would react negatively to.


Here is the huge Meta-analysis of several studies going into detail: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231186625

Very important: They differentiate, as they should, between general audience warnings in the form of the PG or ESRB systems and actual trigger warnings.

Intuitively, Trigger Warnings always made a lot of sense to me and I very much defended them, but I think it would be ignorant to ignore that there is at least evidence showing that they don't actually do what they are suppossed to. And if they don't , I think engaging with them on an artistic level and talking about how they negatively affect a piece of art and its storytelling is certainly worth talking about. So I get where he is coming from.

Even if the results of the study are true, I don't see how this would be actionable in any way. We can't remove trigger warnings and say we're doing it for their own good, we have to trust that individuals for triggers know best for themselves and that trigger warnings are appreciated by them.

Edit: I don't know the first thing about studies or how to interpret them. They say I'm the study that they include even vague warnings as trigger warnings. Is that even helpful for people with triggers?