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Could the Federation survive an invasion by the Galactic Empire?
- Thread starter super-heated plasma
- Start date
Basically.
If you've seen more than a handful of episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9, etc you begin to understand just how ludicrous the tech the Federation has actually is- there's a ton of absolutely wild stuff they know about but simply don't use for treaty reasons or practicality reasons.
Let me introduce you to the Genesis Device:
The Federation not only has the power to *destroy* a planet with something the size of a photon torpedo, they have demonstrated the ability to CREATE an entire M-class planet out of basically nothing. The Federation could literally fire a genesis device at the death star and turn it into a fun moon to take vacations on.
The Empire is absolutely not on this level.
The other quadrants of the Galaxy are occupied by other equally powerful species (Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Borg) that prevent exploration in those areas, as well as absurdly dangerous entities that simply don't exist in the SW galaxy.
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I'm more interested in what could be done together...
Think how awesome it would be!
A team up with Jean-luc, and Leia
Kirk and Chewey save the day!
Blowing up a bird of pray!
Han and Spock the set a net
To trap the Borg and Boba Fett
While 3PO and Data
Raid a Tie Fighter to capture Vader!
Luke and Worf get into it!
And blow the death star into bits!
Think how awesome it would be!
A team up with Jean-luc, and Leia
Kirk and Chewey save the day!
Blowing up a bird of pray!
Han and Spock the set a net
To trap the Borg and Boba Fett
While 3PO and Data
Raid a Tie Fighter to capture Vader!
Luke and Worf get into it!
And blow the death star into bits!
It's a bit weird that noone has displayed any feats etc of Star Trek weapons actually blowing up a planet and I don't remember that happening either outside of that Abrams movie so I guess it's commonly accepted the destruction capacity isn't quite there yet.
Terraforming is extremely common tech in most far future sci-fi settings. It's funnily enough ancient tech in Star Wars as it existed in the the Old Republic.
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This thread brings me back. This is one of the age-old discussions on the internet. Like from before Facebook old. Before Google old. And no, it hasn't resolved yet.
What I find interesting is that it's always the Empire invading the Milky Way and not some Enterprise doing a barrel roll in a space wedgie and ending up a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Because that story would be fascinating. What does a Star Trek ship do when stuck in Star Wars, where space magic is real and verifiable, and warships patrol nearly everywhere? It is just one ship, but with some alien technology that suddenly makes it the most wanted ship in the galaxy.
Where does the Enterprise go, who do they meet, what happens next? And how do these strange people in another galaxy even know what a falcon is?
What I find interesting is that it's always the Empire invading the Milky Way and not some Enterprise doing a barrel roll in a space wedgie and ending up a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Because that story would be fascinating. What does a Star Trek ship do when stuck in Star Wars, where space magic is real and verifiable, and warships patrol nearly everywhere? It is just one ship, but with some alien technology that suddenly makes it the most wanted ship in the galaxy.
Where does the Enterprise go, who do they meet, what happens next? And how do these strange people in another galaxy even know what a falcon is?
tbf the force is like mid level compared to some of the aliens in Star Trek
The genesis device isn't "terraforming." read what that does again.
Genesis took everything in an entire nebula, reduced it to subatomic particles then rebuilt it into a planet within hours. It will do that to *anything* in its radius that consists of matter.
Basic terraforming is commonplace by the time TNG rolls around but the Genesis device is still extremely classified restricted tech.
And you don't see the Federation blowing up planets because they aren't supervillains. Anything super destructive like that will almost always get banned or restricted.
Janeway *states* that a sufficiently powerful torpedo could take a planet out, but Voyager is never actually going to do it for obvious reasons.
Yes, but the verifiable thing is the interesting bit. Ask a Jedi, or even several different Jedi of different species to perform the same act with the Force and they can.
Actually, odd questions, but this is Trek vs. Wars, odd is the starting point...
You get to strand ONE protagonist ship in the Star Wars galaxy. You can pick any crew setup that ship had. Which do you throw into the trans-dimensional space pretzel for fun?
Is it an Enterprise? Maybe Voyager? Discovery, perhaps? Or do we go odd and drop Deep Space Nine there?
Discovery (the most recent version) is the obvious candidate there. That thing wipes out the Empire by itself.
I'd go with Voyager since they are the seasoned vets of being stranded but second goes to Disco with the spore drive.
Don't forget Disco got upgraded with 32nd century tech and has a cloaking device now. No way would i take Voyager over that.
Species 8472 Energy focusing ship (in combination with other bioships) possess the ability to destroy worlds, and had done so against hundreds of Borg controlled planets.
The Genesis Device did more than terraform when it exploded, it created a whole new planet from nebula debris.
You have no idea how insane atomic age 20th century scifi literature got, and Star Trek is not only heavily inspired by it but also had many of the 20th century's biggest scifi authors write for it. Growing up in an era when cars and planes and radio are brand new ideas and then seeing the atomic bomb unleashed by the time you're an adult really does things to your perception of technological advancement.
Yeah and the Empire has what, 50 of those Death Star Destroyers? And the Federation has thousands. The Federation's rivals have thousands more.
That volley was also done by a handful of TOS era torpedoes. The TNG era stuff was a lot more powerful.
Oh right new Disco, ok switch them out then, Voyager would be my second choice
Personally I believe sheer awesomeness is superior to tech, which is why Battlestar Galactica would win against even the Culture.
Those Star Wars guidebooks that have gigaton firepower for the big warships were written by a prominent member of the ST vs SW fan community. He wrote them to make Star Wars win. They are utterly unreliable and match nothing we see on screen.
Amazing anyone still quotes anything that old. TLJ put the nail in the coffin of all that in the first 15 minutes.
The resistance needed to use slow ass bombers to drop a payload of *a thousand* bombs to punch through the *unshielded* hull of a dreadnought.
If those numbers were remotely close to true TLJ would be nonsense.
The Culture is what the Federation wants to be when it grows up, there's no match. Just effectors have enough precision at interstellar ranges to mess with brains and hack computers.
And the Culture is no where near the Xeelee.
The Culture is 11,000 years old and takes place in a fraction of a single galaxy. The Xeelee are everywhere in the entire observable universe, and by everywhere I mean that during their war with the photino birds they built a Dyson sphere around every single star iirc. Plus they operate in a closed timeline curve, they are multiple times older than the universe.
And I don't even know if Culture weapons could do anything to the Xeelee. Xeelee construction material has 100% efficient energy to matter conversion capabilities.
As for the Downstreamers I don't think anything can match them out side of a literal god, and even then...
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Yep, and the Star Trek tech books aren't considered canon either. Generally only the stuff seen and spoken of in the television series and feature films are considered canon in Trek. If we included non canon licensed works, we could get really crazy on Trek side.
If you REALLY want to demonstrate how dumb this fight is, it could even go this way:
Photon torpedoes have warp sustainers in them, meaning they can be fired at warp by a cruising starship and maintain those FTL speeds. Mass increases with the speed of the object, approaching infinite when at the speed of light.
A federation starship wouldn't even need antimatter warheads to take out a fleet of empire warships. You could fill a torpedo shell with plain old rocks and a volley would tear anything in its path to shreds.
Since Empire ships don't have sensors capable of detecting something as small as a torpedo heading that fast AND their sublight engines can't evade them, they're basically dead in the water. They'd begin exploding without the slightest clue what was happening to them.
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Only way star wars beats star trek would be if a Jedi or Sith snuck on board the Enterprise...at that point, the entire ship is screwed....
Deathstar would fire its beam as the Enterprise(post TNG tech and above)shield would just laugh at the beam and then proceed to launch antimatter torpedoes and blow up the death star.
Deathstar would fire its beam as the Enterprise(post TNG tech and above)shield would just laugh at the beam and then proceed to launch antimatter torpedoes and blow up the death star.
Ah, the good old days of StarDestroyer.net. The ICS author acknowledged a guy who was quite possibly the most loony of the ST vs SW "fandom," Mike Wong. Even as a fan of both IPs, reading Wong's diatribes was often just plain cringeworthy. I could swear he even threatened defamation lawsuits against people who disagreed with him.
Yep, I remember all of that. Its vaguely nostalgic but not really.
Jean Luc just shouts "Q! I need you!" and his Space God boyfriend will proceed to torment, deconstruct, and utterly destroy the Sith for a full week.
Ok that's just cheap...you really think the other Q's will let him kill/torture the Sith...I'm sure there is a rule about interfere with lower beings or something like that.
Not by a Longshot. Starship sensors are accurate enough to know not only *exactly* how many people are on board at all times, but can also easily diagnose the species and even health conditions of those scanned on top of that.
Anyone "sneaking" on board would quickly find themselves either beamed into the brig or deep space.
Don't know shit about Trek, how would they fare against comic book space Empires like the Shiar, Kree, or Skrull?
Both are too whimsical at this point to even try. Both can do faster than light movement, have crazy magic stuff, and what not. The moment you can do ftl travel or send objects ftl the only real question is who blows up who first. You could just warp drive a ship through each planet and win. It is nonsensical. You may as well ask which ftl super hero could win over the other ftl super hero? At that point you are dealing with arguably infinite energy on both sides.
I'll go further, allow me to introduce the Cardassian ATR-4107, a prototype self-guided missile carrying a 2,000 kilogram matter/antimatter warhead, enough to destroy a small moon. Capable of speeds up to Warp 9, it possesses shields, defensive weaponry including disruptors, quantum torpedoes, a thoron shock emitter, and a plasma wave, and controlled by a sophisticated computer system. The Cardassians made this thing (and the Maquis B'Elanna Torres reprogrammed it and likely replaced the "old-fashioned" kinetic detonator that failed the first time). This drone would be enough to handle the Empire, and could easily be improved and mass produced by the Federation.
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The force doesn't work that way. You can use it to influence living minds (especially if they're weak) but it doesn't work on droids, and is useless against the ship's AI.
The Raddus in TLJ had Trek style deflector shields capable of withstanding incoming fire, but that was a highly unusual setup and the shielding had to be concentrated in the back.
Q does what he wants and deals with the consequences from the Continuum later.
If that's the case, then I think the Ferengi could take the empire.
I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but the Empire has absolutely no shot at competing with the Federation, Klingon Empire, Dominion or Romulans and God help them if they ever ran across the Borg.
"Intruders with strange laser swords are choking people and lifting them into the air on deck 4 captain"
"Engineering, beam them into space"
Pretty much.
But a lightsaber is totally useless against even a type 1 phaser. Doubt they'd get far even without being beamed into space.
Whats stopping them from sneaking around as one of the crew members until he gets to the engineering to sabotage the ship or main deck to kill the Captain or use the force to mind manipulate some of the crew?
They don't have replicator access to change their spacehobo clothes.
Starfleet ships have pretty sophisticated internal security sensors that are designed to detect intruders so not exactly sure how the Force user is sneaking around TBH
Because:
1.) the ship's AI would automatically detect a hull breach and alert the crew. Usually when someone infiltrates a starship its by beaming aboard through unusual means, but Jedi haven't discovered transporters yet.
2.) in the unlikely event that our jedi get aboard undetected (lets say they knock out the crew of a returning shuttle craft and replace them) the sensors aboard the ship can EASILY distinguish one race from another. The AI would notify the captain that two unidentified life forms were aboard pretty much immediately and those life forms would be tracked with accuracy. No way to evade detection.
3.) how would our jedi know how to navigate to engineering? Or the bridge? They've never seen a Federation starship and don't speak the language.
4.) just for kicks, jedi have never seen phasers before, and would likely assume they work like blasters if they ran across security. They don't.
Phasers fire sustained beams that can stun or kill in a single shot regardless of where they hit, and a SINGLE phaser can be set to either fire multiple beams at once or a super wide beam that can't be blocked by a lightsaber.
5.) jedi mind tricks only really work on the weak willed. Trek glosses over this but Starfleet Officers aren't "average" people, only the best and brightest can get IN to starfleet and even of those only the best of the best manage to graduate. You're basically asking Jedi to walk in a room and pull mind tricks on a room full of Navy Seals with PHDs.
Even a rookie security team takes out your typical jedi more or less immediately. Jedi master might last a bit longer.
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Not even that, just close off that section of deck with force fields and pump in Anesthizine gas and then deal with them as required after the crisis was over. Why Jedi would be helping the Galactic Empire (as specified by the OP) aside.