Comedy and "Political Correctness"

[Snack12367]

I agree with the underlined. But how is a comic meant to predict that an offensive joke can have that kind of impact? That level of foresight is quite unrealistic. Best thing they can do is to stop performing jokes that has been twisted by bigots.

Free speech laws can also be used against those at risk. There was a couple cases in the UK. A brown female activist dropping a tongue in cheek hashtag that said 'killallwhitemen' got into serious trouble. There were also two black rappers that may get sent to prison for a diss song.

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I don't think it's that unrealistic. Even in the 80s Comedians could have done better when it can to homosexuality. I'm think Eddie Murphy stand up about being terrified a gay guy would rape him. Those sort of jokes age poorly, but if you ever actually thought about the joke, you could tell that at least on some level, he saw gay people as predators. That sort of joke only normalised the opinions of those who already thought this. There was no deconstruction of this opinion, it was validation.

I'm going to add that laws that restrict free speech are to typically protect at risk groups. That said I'm also for hate speech laws. Just because one group is seen as protected shouldn't invalidate them from prosecution under hate speech laws. I'd need to know more about the examples before going any further, but in general that what I believe.

 

[samoyed]

Yeah getting my laughs from different places is important to me. I don't want to live in a world filled with Stephen Colberts

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Then tell comedians to think up of new material. A world of Stephen Colberts would never happen anyway because you don't succeed in comedy by delivering the same thing as everyone else. Putting a moratorium on some specific jokes is not going to make everyone the same.

This is a fact because the comedy of today is not the same as it was 50 years ago, is not the same as it was 100 years ago, and so on. There have been people and institutions and governments who've tried to restrict comedy for as long as comedy, has existed, with measures far more draconian than "PC culture" and it has never wiped out comedy. Your worries are entirely unfounded.

 

[Deleted member 38573]

Then tell comedians to think up of new material. A world of Stephen Colberts would never happen anyway because you don't succeed in comedy by delivering the same thing as everyone else. Putting a moratorium on some specific jokes is not going to make everyone the same.

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What topics do you think should be banned (?) from being made fun of?

 

[Deleted member 38573]

This is a fact because the comedy of today is not the same as it was 50 years ago, is not the same as it was 100 years ago, and so on. There have been people and institutions and governments who've tried to restrict comedy for as long as comedy, has existed, with measures far more draconian than "PC culture" and it has never wiped out comedy. Your worries are entirely unfounded.

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You straight up want a form of comedy to be stopped. I'm not worried about the general discourse surrounding offensive comedy, it's par for the course. Just confused about your wants..

For what its worth, I think comedy is at a great place. I rarely see any genuinely malicious jokes that are punching down in the mainstream and there's plenty of clean, political comics too. At the end of the day, i'd like for the discussions on offensive comedy to be taken on a case by case basis. These sweeping declarations like "putting a moratorium on specific jokes" are imo, unrealistic and kinda ridiculous

 

[samoyed]

I want to diminish bigotry by any means possible. If we need to give up some jokes to do it then we should absolutely give them up. No one dies for lack of a joke, people actually die to bigotry.

 

[airjoca]

This sounds like comedians who use a lot of swearing as a crutch.

Great comedians will touch on "political correctness" issues without sounding whiny or unfunny.

When the new Bill Burr special that was taped in London releases for example, a lot of fingers will be pointed at him about some issues. But he was funny and always had a point.

I want to get ERAs opinion on this guy I recently found, I find him hilarious:

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[SugarNoodles]

Yeah getting my laughs from different places is important to me. I don't want to live in a world filled with Stephen Colberts

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What does this even mean?

 

[Deleted member 2809]

I want to get ERAs opinion on this guy I recently found, I find him hilarious:

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Not a good look for you considering the title/preview.

 

[Deleted member 38573]

What does this even mean?

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That I like variety in comedy?

it's a fairly straightforward comment sis

 

[Blade24070]

It's a blanket statement meaning "boy am I mad I have to put more effort in my jokes than making fun of whatever minority with the most low effort joke possible."

 

[TAJ]

This sounds like comedians who use a lot of swearing as a crutch.

Great comedians will touch on "political correctness" issues without sounding whiny or unfunny.

When the new Bill Burr special that was taped in London releases for example, a lot of fingers will be pointed at him about some issues. But he was funny and always had a point.

I want to get ERAs opinion on this guy I recently found, I find him hilarious:

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I feel like if I click on that my YouTube recommends will be fucked for months, going by the thumbnail.

 

[Firaga]

Good comedy punches up. Queer people, people of color, women, people in lower income classes, and other marginalized groups are low on the societal totem pole.

Complaining about "political correctness" is just a dogwhistle that comedians think gives them the excuse to punch down on those aforementioned people (it doesn't).

It's overall just a dick move, and indicative that the comedian you're watching perform is likely not a very nice person.

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I completely agree with this.

 

[Deleted member 38573]

You know what needs to end like right now?

the whole "good comedy punches up" meme. The Bojack writers said it, then we just fucking ran with it

 

[ReplacementPelican]

I mean ultimately the rule is that the more offensive something has the potential to be the the funnier the joke needs to be. Comedians rarely get told off for good jokes that are offensive but if the joke is shit then, well, they deserve to be critised.

I think there's this weird cult of personality around a lot of comedians where people get incredibly defensive if you critise someone that they like, I think Gervais' fans are the absolute worst for this and their dogpiling on twitter (after usually being retweeted or replied to by Gervais) was ridiculous, it was clear that they didn't appreciate his work from an artistic or intellectual standpoint, they just liked that he was making fun of trans people and being 'offensive.' They were essentially the type of audience where - if I was a comedian, writer, etc.. - it would give me pause if they were the ones applauding me.



I also think that if we live in a space where comedians are allowed to say anything because of freedom of speech (within reason, obviously, inciting racial or religious hatred likely wouldn't be allowed) then I'm not sure why comedians and fans of specific comedians are so intent on complaining when freedom of speech is lobbed back in their direction.

People have the right to make these dumbass jokes but people also have the right to criticise them. I'm not sure why that idea becomes controversial.

I also agree with comments about punching up/punching down and that's usually my go-to response but it's been covered.

 

[Lentic]

*make a controversial joke*
*be unable to take controversy*
*call people snowflakes*

If your jokes only end up making people mad and do nothing else, you're doing a bad job as a comedian. Good comedy tackles the issues while managing to make everyone laugh.

 

[SugarNoodles]

That I like variety in comedy?

it's a fairly straightforward comment sis

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It's a false dichotomy tho bro. There are options outside of "bigoted comedy" and "everyone is Colbert"

 

[Deleted member 38573]

It's a false dichotomy tho bro. There are options outside of "bigoted comedy" and "everyone is Colbert"

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oh, right i was exaggerating.

i'm sure you got my point from the first part of my comment. i like variety and that includes offensive comedy.

i don't want to live in a world where comics can't poke fun at me. better?

 

[Slammin_Hammon]

Sounds to me like young comedians doing hacky bits. If it isn't original and there isn't a punchline it isn't going to be funny regardless of the subject. The whole "PC" culture is just in the minds of lots of comedians right now. It also feels like a way to imply that they'd be funnier if they could let loose, when that likely isn't the case.

 

[SugarNoodles]

oh, right i was exaggerating.

i'm sure you got my point from the first part of my comment. i like variety and that includes offensive comedy.

i don't want to live in a world where comics can't poke fun at me. better?

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What's an example of some comedy you like that pokes fun at you?

 

[Deleted member 20429]

This sounds like comedians who use a lot of swearing as a crutch.

Great comedians will touch on "political correctness" issues without sounding whiny or unfunny.

When the new Bill Burr special that was taped in London releases for example, a lot of fingers will be pointed at him about some issues. But he was funny and always had a point.

I want to get ERAs opinion on this guy I recently found, I find him hilarious:

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I made it 2 minutes in, and this fucking hurt to watch. I am gagging for funny trans based comedy and this is far from it.

 

[Enterprise1701]

I think comedy is on the tame side these days for sure, is that down to a lack of creativeness or political correctness?, I am not sure.

 

[Deleted member 38573]

What's an example of some comedy you like that pokes fun at you?

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hah! what are you really trying to get from me

i'm a minority, you can ask, i won't be offended :D

 

[Dan Thunder]

I think it can be funny if the performer uses it as away to poke fun at the idea of being 'politically correct' being a bad thing. But, yeah, a lot of people use it as a reason to rationalise their bigotries and do lazy comedy.

It's like when you see people do a bit along the lines of "I was walking down the road and this "dual heritage" guy walks towards me." *knowing wink to audience*. It's like come on, at least put a little effort in!

 

[SugarNoodles]

hah! what are you really trying to get from me

i'm a minority, you can ask, i won't be offended :D

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You don't have to answer the question if you don't want to :)

 

[samoyed]

A great example of scapegoating "PC" to cover for your own deficiencies, from the front page.

White actors in black roles in Hungarian theatre play, encouraged to claim "African American identity", director blames excessive PC

 

[Deleted member 38573]

You don't have to answer the question if you don't want to :)

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I'm black and from a muslim background

There's countless comics making fun of black people. Chris Rock (niggas vs blacks), Bill Burr (white people ashy bit). This isn't rare.
Comics commenting on how risky muslim jokes are is also fairly common. Shit to a sensitive muslim poking fun at religious beliefs period is frowned upon
Shit i've got family that suffer from drug problems, and boy do I love Chapelle poking fun at crackheads! I'm broke af, Dave makes fun of that too! List goes on bro.

I would love to give you a list in youtube form but i'm at work.

I feel like superwoke white people have a very narrow view on us minorities. We aren't perpetually angry looking for social revolution. Sometimes we like to switch off and poke fun at ourselves. Why wouldn't we like to hear from a professional doing so? We get that it's a goddamn stand up set and can filter out the truly malicious

 

[Protome]

Someone posted this video last time this came up and I feel like it's a pretty good take on the issue


Paul F Tompkins take on it is "Generally audiences aren't saying 'You can't joke about that' they're actually saying 'That's not funny'" regardless of what the thing is and whether they actually phrase it that way or not. But yeah there's a decent amount of stand up comedy acts that try to make jokes about PC culture and it's not that it's offensive or something to do it's just almost never funny. It's a hard topic to make funny because by default you just sound like you're complaining about people not finding it funny when you punch down.

Like the core issue is these comedians trying to tackle PC Culture as a topic are trying to make a funny joke about not being able to find a way to make a funny joke about a sensitive issue. That's hard especially when they fail to realise that they are the reason they couldn't write something funny not "PC Culture."

 

[Deleted member 1248]

Roads have turns in them. We don't expect them to always be a straight line to wherever we need to be. Comedians need to figure out how to tell the jokes they wanna tell while navigating the current social landscape or just shut the fuck up. We all have jobs that don't always go smoothly. Deal with it like a fucking adult and stop whining.

 

[SugarNoodles]

I'm black and from a muslim background

There's countless comics making fun of black people. Chris Rock (niggas vs blacks), Bill Burr (white people ashy bit). This isn't rare.
Comics commenting on how risky muslim jokes are is also fairly common. Shit to a sensitive muslim poking fun at religious beliefs period is frowned upon
Shit i've got family that suffer from drug problems, and boy do I love Chapelle poking fun at crackheads! I'm broke af, Dave makes fun of that too! List goes on bro.

I would love to give you a list in youtube form but i'm at work.

I feel like superwoke white people have a very narrow view on us minorities. We aren't perpetually angry looking for social revolution. Sometimes we like to switch off and poke fun at ourselves. Why wouldn't we like to hear from a professional doing so? We get that it's a goddamn stand up set and can filter out the truly malicious

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I mean if you think Chris Rock making fun of black people is punching down you're probably missing the entire point of what you were responding to in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 38573]

I mean if you think Chris Rock making fun of black people is punching down you're probably missing the entire point of what you were responding to in the first place.

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Jesus H. Christ

That is the go to example of offensive jokes leading to normalizing bigotry. Chris had to stop performing that joke because racists kept using it against black people

Which is what I was first responding to.

And there's some real powerful mental gymnastics at play if you don't think that classist bit isn't punching down

 

[Deleted member 47700]

Says it all in 17 seconds.

But really it's the most nebulous, vague and whiny card for a comedian to pull. It's funny how liberal/leftist stand-ups never whine or play victim when they're criticized by conservatives, yet they're the ones who'd more be accused of being snowflakes.

 

[RedSparrows]

Stewart Lee always got it. The playfulness is what so many miss when it comes to 'PC', as is the puncturing of conceit that nobody who talks about 'PC gone mad' ever seems to think about.

The thing I find most irritating about 'PC' talk is how many people regurgitate the same cliches over and over. 'PC gone mad'. There's no self-awareness about the discourse.

 

[Deleted member 47700]

Bodega Boys have a good take

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Fun fact too: This channel's main host got briefly fired from MSNBC over a provocative joke he made on twitter about Roman Polanski years ago. It was a smear campaign by Mike Cernovich because Sam made fun of him but funnily enough I never heard the term "muh politcal correctness" applied to that situation. Why? How come this term is only ever used when a liberal/leftist criticizes (not even censors or attempts to fire the person) a joke? It's why I think it's a term that is blinkered and completely biased toward a certain reactionary ideology..

 

[ty_hot]

Racism, xenophobia, sexism, homo and transphobia are easy jokes. Sometimes they know that they will say something wrong and just stop right before and leave the "yeah, I will stop here for political correctness..." and leave the audience to complete the joke - and they do because they have these thoughts inside them.

There are some genuinely funny guys that I enjoy but every now and then use this kind of joke... So I keep subscribing and unsubscribing to them on YouTube.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Jesus H. Christ

That is the go to example of offensive jokes leading to normalizing bigotry. Chris had to stop performing that joke because racists kept using it against black people

Which is what I was first responding to.

And there's some real powerful mental gymnastics at play if you don't think that classist bit isn't punching down

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So... the problem was that people were using his joke to punch down. Not sure what you aren't getting about this.

 

[Deleted member 3897]

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Carlin but there were definitely jokes at the expense of black and gay folk.

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Can you link them? Cause Ive actually not heard them. I have actually heard him supporting black and gay people.

How he has talked about how the US likes to bomb countries with brown people, not because they cut in on their [US] actions, only because they are brown.

How you unly need to find the closest black fmaily to you to see a group of people that are still oppressed and discriminated against.

How rick white men don't care about poor black people.

He has also shat a lot on christians who needs to stop caring so much about gay people.

The only joke I can find that goes on expense of black people is where he talked about how white people will never be as cool as black people with having their Cap this way, but as soon as a black person can get social security, it's tipe to switch the Cap the other way around.

He also said the n-word once when it was a standup about words you cannot say any longer.

 

[AnansiThePersona]

I think it's lazy. Like an excuse to not be creative. Complaining about PC culture ruining comedy is the corniest thing to me. Just do the joke and don't lead off with that. They acting they really the first person to say these things.

 

[Deleted member 38573]

So... the problem was that people were using his joke to punch down. Not sure what you aren't getting about this.

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The joke punches down. But it's a joke in a stand up performance at the end of the day, clearly not meant to be taken seriously.... Racists didn't get that at all

 

[SugarNoodles]

The joke punches down. But it's a joke in a stand up performance at the end of the day, clearly not meant to be taken seriously.... Racists didn't get that at all

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You don't understand what is even meant by punching down 🤷‍♂️

 

[FaceHugger]

What is considered "PC" is always going to change as time marches on, and certain jokes will become unacceptable to the majority. I will say there is a subset of liberals out there who are overly sensitive, or seem to convey mock outrage over jokes that shouldn't even be considered avant garde.

 

[Deleted member 38573]

You don't understand what is even meant by punching down 🤷‍♂️

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I'd love for you to explain to me how a rich guy poking fun at poor people isn't punching down

You should just take the L here, you've added jack shit to this conversation other than laser focusing in on one example of offensive comedy I like. Cute but transparent.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/punch+down

5. slang To make jokes at the expense of a person or group that is in a position of social, political, or economicweakness relative to oneself. The comedian suddenly started telling jokes about people in the ghettos, and I got reallyuncomfortable. Comedians shouldn't punch down, if you ask me.

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here you go chief

 

[MelliiDragon]

I want to get ERAs opinion on this guy I recently found, I find him hilarious:

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Thats a pretty good example of how not to make jokes about the subject. Because the basis of pretty much all of the jokes here are flat out wrong. The first thing is he says tranny is just short for transgender, but the problem here is transgender is not a noun you address people with, it's an adjective (which is one of the main reasons people have a problem with it). Pretty much all of his example are nouns. The only thing that isn't a noun is where he compares it to calling PoC something similiar offensive (which would be pretty bad as well).

And then he goes into how its because of the looks that trans people aren't treated well even though it is not realy rare that the violence trans people expirience is from people that find them atractive but can't handle that they find a trans person atractive.

If you make jokes about a subject like that you better know a lot about the subject otherwise you just sound kind of stupid.

 

[Slayven]

Nothing is sacred in comedy, but comedy? going to put something out there you better be ready to hear some critques. The vast majority of comedians are fine and understand this. You notice 9/10 this only comes up over some hack shit.

 

[tommy7154]

To me personally the funniest comedy is stuff that I can relate to, whether it's PC or not. For example I grew up very poor. Being poor fucking sucks. That doesn't mean it can't be joked about.

Example: If someone talks to me about peanut butter and jelly crackers for dinner because there's no fucking bread in the house that's getting a laugh from me. I experienced it, I can relate... It's funny.

At the same time I remember it all too well. And my heart goes out to anyone going through it right now. It's sad. It's extremely tough to deal with. I don't look down on these people in the slightest. I was these people.

So anyway yeah you can be very non-PC and still be funny in my book.

There's absolutely lines though. If you were born rich and you're talking about something like this and mocking it then obviously that's over the line.

 

[Deleted member 82]

To me personally the funniest comedy is stuff that I can relate to

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This is slightly off-topic, but it reminds me of two things:

- back when I was a fan of... ugh... Louis CK, he had a joke about how weed affected him and how he stopped doing drugs as an older adult. Didn't get much of a laugh out of me because I've never done any drugs. My friend didn't find the joke funny either because he too has never done drugs. The joke could be genius for all we know, but because we have no idea because we can't relate to the experience of being on drugs

- in one of her recent vids (The Darkness, IIRC), Contrapoints talked about the fact that most transgender jokes are not funny because most comedians simply know nothing about transgender issues and what it's like to be transgender. She then gives an example of an actual transgender comedian on youtube and says she finds her hilarious. And I'm sure she is, but the bit didn't make me laugh one bit because I'm your average cis white male and don't even know transgender people in real life (Contrapoints is basically my only point of reference on the subject).

My point is, I wonder what kind of reception would "punching-down" comedians would get if they had jokes that are actually savvy of those subjects. They'd get new audiences I suppose, but in the process, they might lose a part of their usual audience because their punching-down jokes appealed specifically to an audience of people who themselves are ignorant of or don't care about those topics. Not that there's anything wrong with losing an audience of insensitive/ignorant people, mind you. By all means, get rid of all the bigoted, facile jokes that masquerade as "real talk" and "anti-PC". Can't wait for that day, if it ever comes.

 

[TheGhost]

If the rest of the room laughs it doesn't matter what a small handful of people who take the jokes too seriously thinks.

I'm pretty sure that's how comedians look at it.

 

[Llyrwenne]

I want to get ERAs opinion on this guy I recently found, I find him hilarious:

(Video)

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- Bad faith defense of a slur within a 'political correctness' framing as a justification for using that slur throughout the material.
- Deadnaming Kaitlyn Jenner and commenting on her appearance in the framing of 'she doesn't pass' / 'she's fake' / 'she's so manly'.
- General focus on trans people's genitals interwoven with casual homophobia.
- Consistent focus on the appearance of trans women in specific and how he thinks they aren't attractive / don't pass.

No thanks, I've heard all this before from plenty of other hack "comedians". This is just plain transphobia. It is rooted in the same exact hateful rhetoric that TERFs and other transphobes spew to attack trans identities, harass trans people, and push for legislation that restricts the rights of trans people.

 

[GeminiX7]

What topics do you think should be banned (?) from being made fun of?

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Dude, tell whatever joke you want. Just stop being a fucking crybaby when people react negatively to it.

 

[Trice]

Good comedy is funny. If it gets a laugh out of me, you can joke about anything. Nothing is off limits.

He rapes, but he saves.

 

[Platy]

The only time when complaining about PC is hilarious is when politicians complain about political correctness