CNN & Corporate Dems Whitewashing Impeachment.

Royalan · Sep 29, 2019

DiscoShark said:
They don't have any skin in the game though, not in comparison to the moderates (in moderate districts*) that have come forward in support of impeachment. Again, the relevance of Maxine Waters to this discussion is wanting. Even if politically she's a moderate the calculus changes when standing atop her +29 Democratic leaning California district. Her prematurely calling for impeachment in that environment doesn't speak to a bravery or leadership so much as a freedom that other members in her caucus haven't had up until now. It's not a decision that she is making with the threat of potentially losing her seat for it in the 2020 cycle.

The Mueller Probe didn't begin until May 17, 2017.

Donald Trump has been in violation of the emoluments clause since the day he took office.

Donald Trump fired James Comey, and then admitted on national television that he fired Comey because of the Russia Investigation in an interview with Lester Holt on May 11, 2017.

Donald Trump, weekly, behaves in a manner unfitting the Presidency (also a standard of impeachment), damn near weekly.

The facts reject your assertion that Donald Trump was only a candidate for impeachment post the Mueller Report. We're talking about a president who was in clear violation of the law well before the existence of the special investigation you're hailing as the standard.

I will also repeat that Maxine Waters has been the subject of constant harassment and death threats for, yes, her bravery and leadership.

HighResTomato · Sep 29, 2019

Aahhh White Privilige, You go girls!

Exactly the reason why I get aneurisms when White Women talk about "equality". That pic posted above speaks a million words.

Shy said:

Deleted member 22490 · Sep 29, 2019

Top NHST Product · Sep 29, 2019

Royalan said:
The Mueller Probe didn't begin until May 17, 2017.

Donald Trump has been in violation of the emoluments clause since the day he took office.

Donald Trump fired James Comey, and then admitted on national television that he fired Comey because of the Russia Investigation in an interview with Lester Holt on May 11, 2017.

Donald Trump, weekly, behaves in a manner unfitting the Presidency (also a standard of impeachment), damn near weekly.

The facts reject your assertion that Donald Trump was only a candidate for impeachment post the Mueller Report. We're talking about a president who was in clear violation of the law well before the existence of the special investigation you're hailing as the standard.

I will also repeat that Maxine Waters has been the subject of constant harassment and death threats for, yes, her bravery and leadership.

They probably didn't even know he was in violation of the law then or that impeachment doesn't require illegality to be put forward in the first place just like how they thought Maxine must have been socialist supreme. It was too early to call for impeachment for him profiting from office before hand and being an easy target for manipulation. Better to let him profit from his position and get manipulated for two and a half years and depend on government workers getting so fed up with his violations that they come forward to tell you what you already have evidence of before making a decision.

True leadership is waiting until public sentiment is in your favor before taking a stand. Just ask one of the leaders of police reform Newt Gingrich.

Inuhanyou · Sep 29, 2019

Emmert said:
"I don't think any of us want to be the loudest voice in the room, we want to be the most effective."

Delusional. Not to mention the tropes.

"I'm a progressive, who likes to get things done"

All of those other people, are not serious enough

TheOMan said:
Correct. CNN is playing the game that needs to be played unfortunately.

This is the part where the libs pretend its just "apart of reality" and something that needs to be accepted rather than something that should be challenged on its foundations. Look back on history with that attitude and its shameful to see where we might be, this is why moderate white libs get such criticism.

Mr. X · Sep 29, 2019

America
Rock Music
Dreads

White people stay trying to take credit for shit minorities started

lenovox1 · Sep 29, 2019

It's fully important that these women get articles written about them and about their open letter, especially in a, "If even they support impeachment..." way.

BUT framing them as "leaders" is indeed problematic and emblematic on the way we treat every subject in America's political history.

Akira86 · Sep 29, 2019

lenovox1 said:
It's fully important that these women get articles written about them and about their open letter, especially in a, "If even they support impeachment..." way.

BUT framing them as "leaders" is indeed problematic and emblematic on the way we treat every subject in America's political history.

are they the....white leaders? like "hey we have some people who are leading. well arguably leading. they are leaders among their white peers because they have finally joined in to the impeachment calls. so that's kind of like leadership, anyway lets get some pictures of these ladies sitting around a big wooden table! AOC doesn't have the only Squad! I'm just sayin....."

#leaderstoo

Inuhanyou · Sep 29, 2019

Kusagari said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...887a26-a8f9-11e9-a3a6-ab670962db05_story.html

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/01/mikie-sherrill-new-jersey-pressure-227995

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...ts-try-to-establish-their-brand-ahead-of-2020

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/30/us/politics/left-moderate-democrats.html

The idea that these specific women have not gotten media coverage is a flat out lie. They've gotten tons of stories on how they're fighting against the progressive left and the real power players in Congress.

That's how you gain notoriety in modern American center right Washington media sphere. You get framed as a leader on attacking the actual heroes.

brainchild · Sep 29, 2019

Shy said:

Basically.

shintoki · Sep 29, 2019

We got a bunch of badasses here!

Odrion · Sep 29, 2019

ah, the favored pastime of the moderate dems: gaslighting minorities

pewpewtora · Sep 29, 2019

Really CNN? Come the fuck on.

danm999 · Sep 29, 2019

Don't worry everyone if the impeachment hits any sort of snag or run into any problems the loud black and brown women will own it again

Ichthyosaurus · Sep 29, 2019

Kittens McMittens said:
OK, here's my comment edited to suit your labels:

The fact that some conservative democrats who lacked the courage to lead on impeachment have decided that it's safe for them to do so is neither news nor headline worthy.

Edit: also, to describe them as 'leaders' as CNN does is manifestly untrue.

So, the fact that I mis-labelled their political affiliation has nothing to do with anything.

Was that so hard?

Apharmd said:
But this is clearly wrong?

Do you have an argument?

Inuhanyou said:
"I'm a progressive, who likes to get things done"

All of those other people, are not serious enough

Why are you focused on progressives when they're not not what CNN is discussing?

This is the part where the libs pretend its just "apart of reality" and something that needs to be accepted rather than something that should be challenged on its foundations. Look back on history with that attitude and its shameful to see where we might be, this is why moderate white libs get such criticism.

There's no pretending. Of course the status quo should be challenged but it won't be done by weakening our power in congress further. We need conservative Democrats in our coalition, sadly, or we let their districts fall into Republican hands. It's naive to assume all those districts are going to be won by liberal or leftist politicians, were that true those politicians would be in those seats not the Spanburger's of the world.

Inuhanyou · Sep 29, 2019

danm999 said:
Don't worry everyone if the impeachment hits any sort of snag or run into any problems the loud black and brown women will own it again

Of course they will. Not saying i care about something that the senate will vote down, but its always ALWAYS geared towards the progressives and the minority women of cover being in the wrong. And the centrist white moderate position being the one taken seriously.

danm999 · Sep 29, 2019

Inuhanyou said:
Of course they will. Not saying i care about something that the senate will vote down, but its always ALWAYS geared towards the progressives and the minority women of cover being in the wrong. And the centrist white moderate position being the one taken seriously.

Tapper is already suggesting it.

Deleted member 6230 · Sep 29, 2019

danm999 said:
Tapper is already suggesting it.

Somebody NEEDS to slap the shit out of him

Trup1aya · Sep 29, 2019

Renna Hazel said:
I feel like I'm the only person here that's glad that they waited for something like this before starting the impeachment process. I can't fault these people for "fence sitting" then moving forward when the circumstances and evidence presented itself. I wouldn't call them leaders of the impeachment process, but leaders for the moderate members in this process. It's a game of numbers and it seems they made a big difference.

And hey, I'm also glad it's highlighting women here.

What if something like this never presented itself? We'd just have a president violating the law with impunity because those with access to his crimes actively shield him from justice, and his opponents are waiting for his allies to turn on him.

Inuhanyou · Sep 29, 2019

danm999 said:
Tapper is already suggesting it.

the woman of color who got essentially excommunicated from seeing her family because israel put so many asterisks on the thing it didnt even matter is now the one who will hurt the impeachment proceedings for being the main one asking for impeaching the president.

WrenchNinja · Sep 29, 2019

Why is Tapper obssessed with Rashida?

Deleted member 22490 · Sep 29, 2019

WrenchNinja said:
Why is Tapper obssessed with Rashida?

He's a bigot

Gaia Lanzer · Sep 29, 2019

WrenchNinja said:
Why is Tapper obssessed with Rashida?

From what I've heard, people that work with Tapper says he's super prejudice against Muslims.

SatelliteOfLove · Sep 29, 2019

mario_O said:
"The Leaders on Impeachment"

What happened to AOC, Ilham, Rashida, Maxine?

And this too (wow)

I'll match that (wow) and raise you a YIKES.

Green especially should be on to preen for sticking his neck out waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay early and catching death threats for it.

Kirblar · Sep 29, 2019

Trup1aya said:
What if something like this never presented itself? We'd just have a president violating the law with impunity because those with access to his crimes actively shield him from justice, and his opponents are waiting for his allies to turn on him.

You just do the impeachment hearings endlessly without ever moving to a floor vote or putting it to the Senate. You need something you could easily sell to public in order to put GOP Senators in a catch-22 when the Senate vote comes up instead of your own. We had not had that at any point before this, making a full impeachment process incredibly risky.

Is this a nakedly political consideration? Absolutely. Is impeachment a nakedly political process? Absolutely.

Which is why the arguments for "We should have done it day 1!" are so bad, because many of the people arguing this are already conceding that you can't remove Trump and are acting accordingly. They're defeated before they even begin. Osita N.'s awful article this week on this was in this vein of thinking.

Ichthyosaurus · Sep 29, 2019

Apharmd said:
Liberals whitewashing a moment of cultural significance?

shockedpikachuface.jpg

LOL this shit is predictable as pie. The center-left will ALWAYS pull this kind of shit. White supremacy doesn't just exist on the right, y'all. The center-left propagates it and always has.

These politicians aren't liberals or centrists. Its frustrating how the conservative wing of the party is being minimised to attack liberals, who have nothing to do with this piece. For sure white supremacy has an impact on the Democratic party, which is why it's weird to see you refusing to attack the actual faction responsible for it. Do you hate liberals more than conservatives?

Kittens McMittens · Sep 30, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
Was that so hard?

WTF dude. I already said that in my previous posts by saying the labels weren't important as our different usage was due to UK/USA cultural differences.

So, will you accept the substantive point that these people aren't in fact leaders and this article is garbage?

Ichthyosaurus · Sep 30, 2019

Kittens McMittens said:
WTF dude. I already said that in my previous posts by saying the labels weren't important as our different usage was due to UK/USA cultural differences.

So, will you accept the substantive point that these people aren't in fact leaders and this article is garbage?

I was getting infuriated because acknowledging the accurate people in the Democratic party CNN were reporting on was like pulling teeth, and I explained sufficiently about why those labels are important.

Already did on page 2. It was never my position that how CNN framed the conservative Democrats were right.

Boiled Goose · Sep 30, 2019

Lol. White congresspeople only did the right thing when politically expedient. Leaders?? Gtfo

Zelas · Sep 30, 2019

Boiled Goose said:
Lol. White congresspeople only did the right thing when politically expedient. Leaders?? Gtfo

Wedge issues in purple and red states arent politically expedient. That statement is even more ignorant than thinking Dems with no competition have any power over dems in seats that determine who controls the house.

Terra Firma · Sep 30, 2019

Zelas said:
Wedge issues in purple and red states arent politically expedient. That statement is even more ignorant than thinking Dems with no competition have any power over dems in seats that determine who controls the house.

So how does that make them "leaders"?

Deleted member 7130 · Sep 30, 2019

"We see that the kids like the woc who aggressively pursue action based on principles forged in their cultural and class upbringings. They're a little too upitty so how about we substitute that with white women who have a more respectful authoritarian background? Ehh? They're still women. We still get to clap our hands. More 👏 women 👏 moderate 👏 enablers 👏 of 👏 fascism 👏 and 👏 capital 👏 hoarding 👏 who 👏 only 👏 grow 👏 a 👏 spine 👏 when 👏 it 👏 suits 👏 them!"

Zelas · Sep 30, 2019

Terra Firma said:
So how does that make them "leaders"?

A highly visible move from a group of moderate dems signaling to other moderate dems that its ok to come along doesnt mean they're leaders on the Ukraine issue? On top of the backroom discussion they were having with Nancy and others? Most of the moderates moved over after the op-ed helped pave the way. They didnt move at all when they were being called bigger criminals than the ones who committed the crime because the far left has zero influence over them.

Ichthyosaurus · Sep 30, 2019

Televator said:
"We see that the kids like the woc who aggressively pursue action based on principles forged in their cultural and class upbringings. They're a little too upitty so how about we substitute that with white women who have a more respectful authoritarian background? Ehh? They're still women. We still get to clap our hands. More 👏 women 👏 moderate 👏 enablers 👏 of 👏 fascism 👏 and 👏 capital 👏 hoarding 👏 who 👏 only 👏 grow 👏 a 👏 spine 👏 when 👏 it 👏 suits 👏 them!"

Would you prefer the Democrats have a smaller coalition? I don't like relying on them, either, but the country is too conservative to throw them out. It's better they're on our side than not voting or being Republicans.

Boiled Goose · Sep 30, 2019

Zelas said:
Wedge issues in purple and red states arent politically expedient. That statement is even more ignorant than thinking Dems with no competition have any power over dems in seats that determine who controls the house.

Why wasn't the right thing done earlier?

JABEE · Sep 30, 2019

Royalan said:
Yeah, that line was especially GTFO.

Sitting quietly, never rocking the boat, and being promoted as the party's leadership over bolder minority members of the caucus. That's America.
They held no opinion and shared no skin in the game because they were "smart" and their strategy was about being "effective."

What really happens is moderate, white politicians come along and bath in the blood, sweat, and tears of the people who actually made sacrifices and felt abuse. Those politicians get to say they evolved on the position or their surrogates float out the idea they really believed in the cause all along but couldn't do so publicly. They waited until the right time to give a shit because they are smart.

legacyzero · Sep 30, 2019

I've been banned twice this year for ragging on Era Moderates, so anybody in this thread saying mods arent doing their jobs, are being disingenuous.

Also, this is white-washing plain and simple and they KNOW what they fucking did.

julian · Sep 30, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
Would you prefer the Democrats have a smaller coalition? I don't like relying on them, either, but the country is too conservative to throw them out. It's better they're on our side than not voting or being Republicans.

So let's give extra credit to the late comers, while also criticizing the progressives and ignoring their contributions? You actively downplay the role progressives have in the party and take their votes for granted. You wouldn't have a coalition without them either. That's what makes it a coalition.

Diablos · Sep 30, 2019

Some people need a glorified CNN tweet and article for not even taking the lead on impeachment, others simply need to say something like "impeach the motherfucker" on day one but somehow not get enough credit because they're brown and they said the F word.

Funny how it all works.

Goat Mimicry · Sep 30, 2019

Man, fuck Jake Tapper and CNN. Those 5 Democrats are followers at best, and it's infuriating seeing a bunch of hacks give them the credit that belongs to people like Tlaib.

legacyzero said:
I've been banned twice this year for ragging on Era Moderates, so anybody in this thread saying mods arent doing their jobs, are being disingenuous.

Also, this is white-washing plain and simple and they KNOW what they fucking did.

Pretty sure it was actually for being disingenuous yourself. You repeatedly (and conveniently) "forgot" things that you already knew in an attempt to frame people you didn't like in a worse light. Ironically, you and CNN seem to employ similar tactics.

ParanormalFupa · Sep 30, 2019

Stop reacting to CNN. It ain't like you are actually paying for cable, sitting through countless commercial breaks, and actually watching any of these programs. It's an engagement trap. Stop fueling the very thing you are complaining about.

Deleted member 31104 · Sep 30, 2019

I take the other view. As a matter of media process, this is good news. This is a normalisation of the impeachment process in the media. The whitewashing might be very distasteful but when they're presenting it as a 'moderate' option then it's winning. When you're doing something 'controversial' you want your most milquetoast politicians front and center so you don't spook the horses. This sort of story might be bullshit, might be utter fabrication but it's the sort of thing which happens. The Clinton impeachment started with hardcore republicans but they put their 'centrists' front and center once it got going.

And as a matter of simple realpolitik, it's always going to be far harder for a rep in a +5 trump district to come out before a narrative than it is for someone in a +5 Clinton district.

T0M · Sep 30, 2019

kmag said:
I take the other view. As a matter of media process, this is good news. This is a normalisation of the impeachment process in the media. The whitewashing might be very distasteful but when they're presenting it as a 'moderate' option then it's winning. When you're doing something 'controversial' you want your most milquetoast politicians front and center so you don't spook the horses. This sort of story might be bullshit, might be utter fabrication but it's the sort of thing which happens. The Clinton impeachment started with hardcore republicans but they put their 'centrists' front and center once it got going.

And as a matter of simple realpolitik, it's always going to be far harder for a rep in a +5 trump district to come out before a narrative than it is for someone in a +5 Clinton district.

I agree with this. As much as I love AOC, Tlaib, and the rest of the squad, the fact remains that they're still huge targets for the right wing to demonize. We all can see the GOP scrambling to find some excuse, anything, to discredit the whistle-blower complaint, and the goal is to make it so they can't muddy the waters by attaching to a false yet plausible narrative. It's one of the big reasons the Mueller report didn't have much effect despite being so damning, they attacked both Mueller's credibility as well as each part of the report, and they intend to do the same with this complaint as well.

Still, when the dust is settled, I hope they get the credit they deserve. But until then, impeachment is an inherently political process, and the Democrats need to get the Independents on their side, and force the GOP into an impossible situation, or just dump Trump altogether.

Ominym · Sep 30, 2019

Imagine getting taken to task for saying "we're gonna impeach the motherfucker!" near the night of your election and then not getting any credit when it starts to happen lmao. Such bullshit.

legacyzero · Sep 30, 2019

Spoopy Boatington said:
Pretty sure it was actually for being disingenuous yourself. You repeatedly (and conveniently) "forgot" things that you already knew in an attempt to frame people you didn't like in a worse light. Ironically, you and CNN seem to employ similar tactics.

People defending Nate Silver's racist "residue" tweet as not racist, and contorting in any way possible to downplay a candidates momentum, even going as far as downplaying and erasing the support of minorities, is pretty damn bad. I've seen bans for less, and those people skated by.

ParanormalFupa said:
Stop reacting to CNN. It ain't like you are actually paying for cable, sitting through countless commercial breaks, and actually watching any of these programs. It's an engagement trap. Stop fueling the very thing you are complaining about.

What am I reading here?

"You arent paying for cable so you have no right to call out clear misreporting and subtle racism. Just ignore them"

Ichthyosaurus · Sep 30, 2019

julian said:
So let's give extra credit to the late comers, while also criticizing the progressives and ignoring their contributions? You actively downplay the role progressives have in the party and take their votes for granted. You wouldn't have a coalition without them either. That's what makes it a coalition.

Stop putting words in my mouth that I never said. Sure I criticise progressives, though what you mean are socialists - don't act like Pelosi is one of yours and she's a progressive just as much as you are, that comes with being in politics. I don't see you unhappy when people do that to every other faction in the party. No, I don't ignore their contributions, they have done a lot of good in office what I don't do is think they're the true leaders of the party who have authority which outstrips every elected leader in congress and that every other politician who isn't in their group is useless or just an obstacle they have to overcome and destroy for the audacity of not being socialists. Agreed. No, what makes a coalition is not that the left's in it a coalition is variety of groups forming an alliance together, everyone else isn't there to be kicked around by anyone else - they know how to rise through the ranks and don't expect absolute submission when they say anything.

We need conservatives in this alliance, and I don't like that fact, but some act as though all we need to get rid of them and we'll grow in strength not weakened politically.

julian · Sep 30, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
Stop putting words in my mouth that I never said. Sure I criticise progressives, though what you mean are socialists - don't act like Pelosi is one of yours and she's a progressive just as much as you are, that comes with being in politics. I don't see you unhappy when people do that to every other faction in the party. No, I don't ignore their contributions, they have done a lot of good in office what I don't do is think they're the true leaders of the party who have authority which outstrips every elected leader in congress and that every other politician who isn't in their group is useless or just an obstacle they have to overcome and destroy for the audacity of not being socialists. Agreed. No, what makes a coalition is not that the left's in it a coalition is variety of groups forming an alliance together, everyone else isn't there to be kicked around by anyone else - they know how to rise through the ranks and don't expect absolute submission when they say anything.

We need conservatives in this alliance, and I don't like that fact, but some act as though all we need to get rid of them and we'll grow in strength not weakened politically.

Take your own advice. I never said anywhere in my post that we didn't need conservatives. People are being critical of labeling them as leaders when in reality they're the stragglers on impeachment. being the last people needed to be convinced doesn't make you a leader.

Ichthyosaurus · Sep 30, 2019

julian said:
Take your own advice. I never said anywhere in my post that we didn't need conservatives. People are being critical of labeling them as leaders when in reality they're the stragglers on impeachment. being the last people needed to be convinced doesn't make you a leader.

About what? I didn't say you did, but plenty here do. Which I agreed with on this subject. No, it does not. Why are you ignoring everything else I said in my post?

julian · Sep 30, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
About what? I didn't say you did, but plenty here do. Which I agreed with on this subject. No, it does not. Why are you ignoring everything else I said in my post?

Because it's bad faith. Neither the poster you originally responded to nor I said we should get rid of them, so you bring up some argument as to why you defend the conservatives in the party to justify your comment. All the while you completely ignore what my point was about giving extra credit to late comers.
And no, I didn't mean socialists. Over half the Democrats in the House have favored opening an impeachment inquiry for months. It was the majority opinion of the party FOR MONTHS.
You did this same shit last time I argued with you. I criticized Pelosi and you came to her defense, then asked who I would replace her with. When I pointed out I never said we should get rid of her, you then pivoted and claimed it was because other posters held more extreme positions about her.
It's bullshit.

Ichthyosaurus · Sep 30, 2019

julian said:
Because it's bad faith. Neither the poster you originally responded to nor I said we should get rid of them, so you bring up some argument as to why you defend the conservatives in the party to justify your comment. All the while you completely ignore what my point was about giving extra credit to late comers.

Have you read this thread or this forum the last few months? I didn't ignore your comment, I agreed with it. I've made this very clear over multiple posts. I do agree the Justice Democrats have been leading out front on this. It's infuriating when that gets ignored again and again because I think we need conservatives in the party to survive.

And no, I didn't mean socialists. Over half the Democrats in the House have favored opening an impeachment inquiry for months. It was the majority opinion of the party FOR MONTHS.

It's been building for months, it hasn't been the majority opinion until recently.

You did this same shit last time I argued with you. I criticized Pelosi and you came to her defense, then asked who I would replace her with. When I pointed out I never said we should get rid of her, you then pivoted and claimed it was because other posters held more extreme positions about her.
It's bullshit.

Because when people complain about Pelosi they want to get rid of her, they're not shy about it. But when it does come to replace her with everyone goes radio silent. She's made many mistakes but let's not be ignore the elephant in the room about her popularity in ERA. This is a big reason why she's Speaker, she has no legit competition to speak of. Of course other posters have more extreme positions then her, she's more hated than Mitch McConnell. Now that's bullshit.

CNN & Corporate Dems Whitewashing Impeachment.

I can say DEI; you can't.

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