Chris Dring: Final Fantasy XVI UK boxed sales 74% lower than FFXV

Phendrift · Jun 26, 2023

People always harp on about how well XV sold, and I agree it did sell pretty well, but I'm actually gonna pull an SE here and say it still did below my expectations.

XV was massively hyped. For YEARS. You can trace it even back to 2006 with Versus but you don't even have to go that far. It had a massive multimedia campaign, it shifted to open world which was obviously a more massive push in terms of following popular trends than anything about XVI. It really felt like it was supposed to bring the series into the modern era. It was supposed to provide long term interested in the series and bring new fans. VIIR and XVI (games that both reviewed way better than it) selling lower than it are actually signs of a failure of XV to renew interest in the series.

Maybe it's because XV launched so close to yet another long-standing Japanese series that went open world for its big comeback that actually DID set the world on fire, selling over 30m+ and arriving to critical acclaim. Zelda is now a Nintendo juggernaut, in a post BotW world, a $60 remake of a 1993 gameboy Zelda game was able to push 6 million copies. It's hard for me to not compare them and wish XV reached even something close to that level of success and ensured a healthy future for the series on that level.

Now Square is just going to have to keep chasing the moment that XV should've been. XVI not being that moment is in part due to its own problems, but it wouldn't even *be* a problem, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion, if XV was that moment already.

Chumunga64 · Jun 26, 2023

so...do we have digital sales yet? I don't want to make a judgement before that

But I do want to say this- yeah, XV's Xbox sales were pretty miniscule compared to the PS4 but it still sold a million copies. You could foster the growth in the xbox audience instead with future FF games

NiteJohn · Jun 26, 2023

Every time people use a game as proof that digital has grown it is always a game that released on the PC. Physical sales for the PC are non-existent, that is why those games had bigger digital sales. FFXVI released only on the PS5 so there are no PC sales.

Chip Chanceworth · Jun 26, 2023

Rurouni said:
Imma also leave my piece here:

Imran Khan: Square Enix "slightly panicking" over Final Fantasy XVI pre-orders, tracking below Final Fantasy XV

Yeah nah, this thread ain't it. I'll even go a step further for FFXV in particular. Besides factually reviewing well day one along with it's Definitive Edition on PC sitting at an 85 metascore by a +4 point growth, prior to FFVII Remake, the game post-launch earned not only the highest GOTY...

www.resetera.com

I would assume their pre order data was also based on digital along physical. Its entirely possible the story in that locked thread turned out to be true lol.

oty · Jun 26, 2023

Lt. Hannah Stone said:
Personally, I think the big difference is that the Zelda team always demonstrated far superior game design ability, but had just not truly hit it big in sales appeal.

Final Fantasy teams are good, but they're now going to have to compete with "gameplay first" studios entering the action RPG space (Guerilla, SSM, Capcom, Nintendo, FROM). If you're not a gameplay first dev, you typically focus on pushing the RPG side if you want sales - writing, quest design, exploration design like CD Project Red or Bethesda. I don't see SQEX planning for success in either area. Their main strength is art design, cinematic presentation, music right now and they're not really making top tier competitive products in either the gameplay side or the RPG side for their mainline entries. They're going to have to strategically pick one and I think it's not the gameplay side. And we've never really seen top tier quest design from SQEX either honestly. They just tried hiring western writers for Forspoken and it didn't work too well, and they hired a Capcom dev for XVI and it's definitely progress but still has some simplicity issues.

why would they focus on RPG stuff? XV was poor on all those RPG stuff you mentioned and is still the sales goal for them to reach. that doesnt make sense. why does people keep forgetting that Square did find massive success, albeit not at a BotW scale, and they did by going the complete opposite path of everything FF up to that point: it was an open world, no playable party, real time action FF that diminished it's RPG elements lol

Lt. Hannah Stone · Jun 26, 2023

oty said:
why would they focus on RPG stuff? XV was poor on all those RPG stuff you mentioned and is still the sales goal for them to reach. that doesnt make sense. why does people keep forgetting that Square did find massive success, albeit not at a BotW scale, and they did by going the complete opposite path of everything FF up to that point: it was an open world, no playable party, real time action FF that diminished it's RPG elements lol

They can do the action rpg route if they want. Fine with me. But they just have a lot more to do on that front to compete with the top studios in the industry. You can find sales success going either way. It just has to be good.

DNAbro · Jun 26, 2023

Lt. Hannah Stone said:
They can do the action rpg route if they want. Fine with me. But they just have a lot more to do on that front to compete with the top studios in the industry. You can find sales success going either way. It just has to be good.

They are competing with the top studios in the industry already, this isn't amateur hour.

Deleted member 15170 · Jun 26, 2023

Chumunga64 said:
so...do we have digital sales yet? I don't want to make a judgement before that

But I do want to say this- yeah, XV's Xbox sales were pretty miniscule compared to the PS4 but it still sold a million copies. You could foster the growth in the xbox audience instead with future FF games

To be honest, FF on Xbox is dead. It's too late to sway people due to the branding being heavily associated with PS. Plus, if Xbox gets their 2024 and beyond slate ready, I can see them forgoing companies like Square.

oty · Jun 26, 2023

Sunbane said:
To be honest, FF on Xbox is dead. It's too late to sway people due to the branding being heavily associated with PS. Plus, if Xbox gets their 2024 and beyond slate ready, I can see them forgoing companies like Square.

Xbox will always try a GP deal with them. why wouldnt they? they do with less famous JRPG brands. and tbh it's only a matter of time till Square accepts one of them aka when Sony starts paying them less

Flame Champion · Jun 26, 2023

oty said:
why would they focus on RPG stuff? XV was poor on all those RPG stuff you mentioned and is still the sales goal for them to reach. that doesnt make sense. why does people keep forgetting that Square did find massive success, albeit not at a BotW scale, and they did by going the complete opposite path of everything FF up to that point: it was an open world, no playable party, real time action FF that diminished it's RPG elements lol

FF15 had way more RPG elements than 16 though and I don't see how a game being open world means it's "the complete opposite" of FF when FF games have had very wide open areas since the beginning. Magic in FF15 doesn't even do anything. It's literally just different particle effects lmao. Same goes for weapon (the 1 weapon type in the game). All swords in the game are just extremely shallow stat sticks (+atk +will) they do absolutely nothing different otherwise. FF15 also had side activities, actual exploration, actual dungeons, etc.

Also, FF15's party members are fully featured characters which you can interact with in way more ways than FF16's NPCs who follow you around. You can equip them with gear, learn new skills for them, level them up/raise their stats, etc. And then the DLC made them playable outright.

Your attempt at comparing the two doesn't make sense.

Lt. Hannah Stone · Jun 26, 2023

DNAbro said:
They are competing with the top studios in the industry already, this isn't amateur hour.

I don't agree, but you're entitled to your opinion of course. I think they do compete in art design, cinematic and graphics presentation and music for sure.

Flame Champion · Jun 26, 2023

DNAbro said:
They are competing with the top studios in the industry already, this isn't amateur hour.

I disagree. Clive doesn't have the depth of a single DMC character, let alone the 4 in DMC5, or any of the Bayonettas or Ninja Gaidens. They are very much not even remotely close to competing with any of the well known character action games.

EmeraldWeapon25 · Jun 26, 2023

Chip Chanceworth said:
I would assume their pre order data was also based on digital along physical. Its entirely possible the story in that locked thread turned out to be true lol.

Yeah, no idea why people acted like Imran doesn't know what he's talking about. FF16 will probably continue to sell based on the positive reviews and audience reception but Square might not be too happy with sales

Lumination · Jun 26, 2023

FF15 is the only game to have had a post-launch DLC plan right? I wonder how that contributes to its legs. There's so many factors here it's hard to compare 1:1 tbh.

oty · Jun 26, 2023

Flame Champion said:
FF15 had way more RPG elements than 16 though and I don't see how a game being open world means it's "the complete opposite" of FF when FF games have had very wide open areas since the beginning. Magic in FF15 doesn't even do anything. It's literally just different particle effects lmao. Same goes for weapon (the 1 weapon type in the game). All swords in the game are just extremely shallow stat sticks (+atk +will) they do absolutely nothing different otherwise. FF15 also had side activities, actual exploration, actual dungeons, etc.

Also, FF15's party members are fully featured characters which you can interact with in way more ways than FF16's NPCs who follow you around. You can equip them with gear, learn new skills for them, level them up/raise their stats, etc. And then the DLC made them playable outright.

Your attempt at comparing the two doesn't make sense.

yes it does, because i'm not comparing XV to XVI. I'm comparing XV to previous FF, which is the whole point. FFXV is way less RPGy than previous entries, even if it's still more RPG than XVI. magic is a craftable item, you have action game staples like parry/perfect dodge. at launch you had literally 0 playable party members. gear stats are way less important than in other FF.

also, a lot of the things you talk about XV are literally the criticism of the game. the sidecontent, specially the sidequests, were heavily criticised. the exploration was criticised. i dont understand your point here.

FFXV was a turning point for the franchise, and it did well. i dont how know anyone would consider arguing otherwise

Flame Champion said:
I disagree. Clive doesn't have the depth of a single DMC character, let alone the 4 in DMC5, or any of the Bayonettas or Ninja Gaidens. They are very much not even remotely close to competing with any of the well known character action games.

ah yes sure. 100 reviews praising the combat and it isnt competitive

EmeraldWeapon25 said:
Yeah, no idea why people acted like Imran doesn't know what he's talking about. FF16 will probably continue to sell based on the positive reviews and audience reception but Square might not be too happy with sales

pretty sure most people on that thread either agreed with him or at least remarked that was totally possible. hell, in my thread about the Ochiai interview that's what ended up happening.

Zen · Jun 26, 2023

FF fans are tracking older and older gamers are typically wiser, more patient and more frugal. Case in point, I'm a massive fan of most of SE's output and yet I didn't pre-order any of the most recent releases. I'll probably pick it up in a few months when I buy a PS5 along with the new Armored Core. I'm not in a hurry, I have other priorities that come first.

Cassius Africanus · Jun 26, 2023

One thing you can say for certain is that this game is under a lot of scrutiny now that's it's a console exclusive. I feel like every aspect of it is being critiqued.

Flame Champion · Jun 26, 2023

oty said:
yes it does, because i'm not comparing XV to XVI. I'm comparing XV to previous FF, which is the whole point. FFXV is way less RPGy than previous entries, even if it's still more RPG than XVI. magic is a craftable item, you have action game staples like parry/perfect dodge. at launch you had literally 0 playable party members. gear stats are way less important than in other FF.

Yeah it's not though. You are still wrong, about all of this. FFXV was an action RPG and it retained a ton of the RPG staples from other FF games. Magic had actual unique effects in FF15 (like in all other FF games), and it wasn't just a different particle effect like in FF16. There were many different weapon types, You could modify your party members like in all other FFs (you can't in FF16), it had a lot of side activities like a number of other FF games, etc. It wasn't anywhere near the departure from other FF games that you are attempting to claim it was, which imo is why FFXV sold so well and was a hit with many fans of the franchise.

FFXV did indeed do well. It was a very ambitious game and retained a lot of the elements FF is known for which is why it did so well.

oty · Jun 26, 2023

Flame Champion said:
Yeah it's not though. You are still wrong, about all of this. FFXV was an action RPG and it retained a ton of the RPG staples from other FF games. Magic had actual unique effects in FF15 (like in all other FF games), and it wasn't just a different particle effect like in FF16. There were many different weapon types, You could modify your party members like in all other FFs (you can't in FF16), it had a lot of side activities like a number of other FF games, etc. It wasn't anywhere near the departure from other FF games that you are attempting to claim it was, which imo is why FFXV sold so well and was a hit with many fans of the franchise.

FFXV did indeed do well. It was a very ambitious game and retained a lot of the elements FF is known for which is why it did so well.

that's a very funny way of talking about XV when we all know that that wasn't the case back when the game was going to come out lmao. And a "hit with FF fans"? XV was amazing in bringing new audiences for the fanbase, which was sorely needed. the game is one of the most divisive in the entire community alongside XIII, with XV fans frequently complaining how a part of the community straight up has a hate boner for XV. I have zero idea of what you're talking about

Lt. Hannah Stone · Jun 26, 2023

oty said:
that's a very funny way of talking about XV when we all know that that wasn't the case back when the game was going to come out lmao. And a "hit with FF fans"? XV was amazing in bringing new audiences for the fanbase, which was sorely needed. the game is one of the most divisive in the entire community alongside XIII, with XV fans frequently complaining how a part of the community straight up has a hate boner for XV. I have zero idea of what you're talking about

Just my personal opinion, FFXV was a response to western RPGs and a demonstration that they could accomplish open world exploration. It seemed designed to emulate a WRPG. Magic and stat management is wildly oversimplified for my taste. Combat is real time like many WRPGs, so it is partially "action" of course. But I think you just hold attack if I remember correctly and hold dodge to use your stamina resource and then manage team abilities and items and weapon choice. Everything else was focused on narratively promoting the experience of having a party.

oty · Jun 26, 2023

Lt. Hannah Stone said:
Just my personal opinion, FFXV was a response to western RPGs and a demonstration that they could accomplish open world exploration. It seemed designed to emulate a WRPG. Magic and stat management is wildly oversimplified for my taste. Combat is real time like many WRPGs, so it is partially "action" of course. But I think you just hold attack if I remember correctly and hold dodge to use your stamina resource and then manage team abilities and items and weapon choice. Everything else was focused on narratively promoting the experience of having a party.

absolutely. i dont think XV is a big departure like XVI. but it is a big departure from the games before it. and it worked. it worked extremely well, and that's on a game that went through one of the worst development process ever. XV achieved what it achieved on a cave with a box of scraps, to say so myself.

Spehornoob · Jun 26, 2023

I actually think XVI is much closer to the older FF games in terms of structure than XV was.

XV was essentially an open world action game with a 15-20 hour MSQ. Much, much more emphasis was placed on side content. You even had level recommendations of the main story quests and they could jump considerably from one story to the next, heavily encouraging side content.

The old games had almost no side content until later. The general structure of the games was "find new town -> upgrade weapons and armor at shop, talk to people and/or solve a problem to figure out where to go next -> dungeon -> find new town"

FFXVI is not dissimilar to that. There are sidequests and hunts, but generally the game structure is "talk to people at the hideaway, upgrade your gear at the blacksmith -> go to a town in the open areas, talk to people and do a main quest or two there -> dungeon -> back to hideaway". The biggest difference in structure is the home base, the lack of a navigable world map, and the fact that the "town" sections are longer than the old games.

Both games are already action RPGs, but FFXVI honestly has more meaningful choices in build than FFXV does, to my memory. I don't remember giving any real thought to what Noctis was kitted out for, he had a built in playstyle and while the weapons types had different animations, they all tended to boil down to knowing when to press the attack and when to defend. Magic was technically more meaningful but was also a clunky mess that required grinding nodes in the open world, not to mention the bizarre decision to make it effect your party members when you had no control over where they positioned themselves. In FFXVI, I have to consider what abilities to equip to Clive and what to focus on. Do I focus on stagger damage, AOE, reducing the stagger bar, defensive countering? I'm considering all those things when I got to the Eikon menu.

I sincerely think almost every element people are complaining about in terms of a departure comes down to the choice to focus on a single character rather than a full party. If, say, Jill and Cid were with Clive the majority of the time, were playable, and had their own gear tracks and ability customization, I don't think you'd hear anywhere near as much talk about how much of a departure FFXVI is. Even with the game structure mostly the same, not having that focus on the party changes the *feeling* of the game so much when compared to the others.

amstradcpc · Jun 26, 2023

Spehornoob said:
I actually think XVI is much closer to the older FF games in terms of structure than XV was.

XV was essentially an open world action game with a 15-20 hour MSQ. Much, much more emphasis was placed on side content. You even had level recommendations of the main story quests and they could jump considerably from one story to the next, heavily encouraging side content.

The old games had almost no side content until later. The general structure of the games was find new town -> upgrade weapons and armor at shop, talk to people and/or solve a problem to figure out where to go next -> dungeon -> find new town

FFXVI is not dissimilar to that. There are sidequests and hunts, but generally the game structure is "talk to people at the hideaway, upgrade your gear at the blacksmith -> go to a town in the open areas, talk to people and do a main quest or two there -> dungeon -> back to hideaway". The biggest difference in structure is the home base, the lack of a navigable world map, and the fact that the "town" sections are longer than the old games.

Both games are already action RPGs, but FFXVI honestly has more meaningful choices in build than FFXV does, to my memory. I don't remember giving any real thought to what Noctis was kitted out for, he had a built in playstyle and while the weapons types had different animations, they all tended to boil down to knowing when to press the attack and when to defend. In FFXVI, I have to consider what abilities to equip to Clive and what to focus on. Do I focus on stagger damage, AOE, reducing the stagger bar, defensive countering? I'm considering all those things when I got to the Eikon menu.

I sincerely think almost every element people are complaining about in terms of a departure comes down to the choice to focus on a single character rather than a full party. If, say, Jill and Cid were with Clive the majority of the time, were playable, and had their own gear tracks and ability customization, I don't think you'd hear anywhere near as much talk about how much of a departure FFXVI is. Even with the game structure mostly the same, not having that focus on the party changes the *feeling* of the game so much when compared to the others.

The main difference is that XV's combat system was bad and XVI's combat system is the best in an RPG along Dragons Dogma's. Yes, the same DD that has a 78 on MC by the way...
XVI could be open world with no problem. The engine almost is, as areas like Northwind show. It reminds me in many ways to Witcher 3. Just they are an iteration away of improving it (sidequests above all) to reach such ceilings.

Spehornoob · Jun 26, 2023

amstradcpc said:
The main difference is that XV's combat system was bad and XVI's combat system is the best in an RPG along Dragons Dogma. Yes, the same DD that has a 78 on MC...

Oh hell yeah. I think XVI's combat blows XV out of the water. I've said it already in this thread, but I sincerely think they should build on it in the next one. Give me three characters, each with a different base fighting style, who's Eikon ability (or whatever the equivalent is) loadouts I can customize, then let me switch between them.

Absolutely kickass action RPG Final Fantasy game right there.

Welfare · Jun 26, 2023

Man I am tired of seeing the XV disrespect. It sold another 5M after launch, and going by all the "slashed prices slashed prices!!!" at launch claims, it sold through what, +6M after the first week?

Stop saying XV did bad or the reception to it was bad. It sold almost as much as XII and XIII did LIFE TIME in LEGS. Bad games don't sell millions at "slaaaaashed priiiiiices!!!!!!"

Lt. Hannah Stone · Jun 26, 2023

amstradcpc said:
The main difference is that XV's combat system was bad and XVI's combat system is the best in an RPG along Dragons Dogma's. Yes, the same DD that has a 78 on MC by the way...
XVI could be open world with no problem. The engine almost is, as areas like Northwind show. It reminds me in many ways to Witcher 3. Just they are an iteration away of improving it (sidequests above all) to reach such ceilings.

Dragon's Dogma has 9 classes with unique weapons, shields, archery, magic, and the ability to climb on enemies.

Flame Champion · Jun 26, 2023

oty said:
that's a very funny way of talking about XV when we all know that that wasn't the case back when the game was going to come out lmao. And a "hit with FF fans"? XV was amazing in bringing new audiences for the fanbase, which was sorely needed. the game is one of the most divisive in the entire community alongside XIII, with XV fans frequently complaining how a part of the community straight up has a hate boner for XV. I have zero idea of what you're talking about

You don't sell 10+ million copies without bringing in a ton of old fans. Also, a lot of the disappointment for some surrounding FFXV was the fact that the game was clearly unfinished, considerably different from the FFXV many expected from Nomura's trailers and it had a very troubled development history.

Again, you tried to paint FFXV as this massive departure from its FF and RPG elements when that is not even remotely true. FF16 does that for sure, not FFXV.

amstradcpc · Jun 26, 2023

Spehornoob said:
Oh hell yeah. I think XVI's combat blows XV out of the water. I've said it already in this thread, but I sincerely think they should build on it in the next one. Give me three characters, each with a different base fighting style, who's Eikon ability (or whatever the equivalent is) loadouts I can customize, then let me switch between them.

Absolutely kickass action RPG Final Fantasy game right there.

I wonder if they have the engine with tools ready to iterate easily and launch next game improved and faster thanks to a good pipeline (like happens with Decima engine, that is full of RPG and design tools). Thats key IMO.
Another aspect to remark is the dialogue animations. Its aces, reminds me a lof from the ones in The Witcher 3.

Kenzodielocke · Jun 26, 2023

Welfare said:
Man I am tired of seeing the XV disrespect. It sold another 5M after launch, and going by all the "slashed prices slashed prices!!!" at launch claims, it sold through what, +6M after the first week?

Stop saying XV did bad or the reception to it was bad. It sold almost as much as XII and XIII did LIFE TIME in LEGS. Bad games don't sell millions at "slaaaaashed priiiiiices!!!!!!"

Its a bad Final Fantasy game.

Spehornoob · Jun 26, 2023

I don't personally like Final Fantasy XV, and I'm a little confused at how its really any more of an RPG than XVI is, but denying its success would be a mistake, as would be denying that there are probably things that can be learned from that success.

5taquitos · Jun 26, 2023

22 pages about incomplete sales data for one country.

lol

amstradcpc · Jun 26, 2023

Lt. Hannah Stone said:
Dragon's Dogma has 9 classes with unique weapons, shields, archery, magic, and the ability to climb on enemies.

Yes, thats why i loved it. Is so good. But with FFXVI system (with no trash moobs) you reach a point in which you are in control of your combos and get done what you have in mind that the sensation is like playing piano, so satisfactory...

Daramir · Jun 26, 2023

oty said:
Xbox will always try a GP deal with them. why wouldnt they? they do with less famous JRPG brands. and tbh it's only a matter of time till Square accepts one of them aka when Sony starts paying them less

nah, the other user is right, FF and Xbox is pretty much over with Xbox skipping FF7R, FFXVI and Rebirth entirely, I doubt Xbox management will want to splash in the future on FF games years after release when they have Atlus and capcom instead

Lt. Hannah Stone · Jun 26, 2023

Daramir said:
nah, the other user is right, FF and Xbox is pretty much over with Xbox skipping FF7R, FFXVI and Rebirth entirely, I doubt Xbox management will want to splash in the future on FF games years after release when they have Atlus and capcom instead

That's the vibe I got from the recent Spencer interviews. He seems pretty frustrated with them, and it seems the feeling is probably mutual.

Welfare · Jun 26, 2023

Kenzodielocke said:
Its a bad Final Fantasy game.

It's a great Final Fantasy game.

After playing through 7 to 13, it's in no a way bad Final Fantasy.

Funkelpop · Jun 26, 2023

5taquitos said:
22 pages about incomplete sales data for one country.

lol

Lol yup.

Stef · Jun 26, 2023

amstradcpc said:
The main difference is that XV's combat system was bad and XVI's combat system is the best in an RPG along Dragons Dogma's.

Ehm... a certain Elden Ring would love to have a talk with you.

7thFloor · Jun 26, 2023

Cassius Africanus said:
One thing you can say for certain is that this game is under a lot of scrutiny now that's it's a console exclusive. I feel like every aspect of it is being critiqued.

Every Final Fantasy is under this much scrutiny, this is normal

amstradcpc · Jun 26, 2023

Stef said:
Ehm... a certain Elden Ring would love to have a talk with you.

Yeah, that also has ace combat, I forgot to mention it.

southwest · Jun 26, 2023

Spehornoob said:
I actually think XVI is much closer to the older FF games in terms of structure than XV was.

Agreed. XVI is a Final Fantasy, XV was a pale imitation of an aesthetic long since done away with.

amstradcpc · Jun 26, 2023

7thFloor said:
Every Final Fantasy is under this much scrutiny, this is normal

Will happen with Starfield.

7thFloor · Jun 26, 2023

amstradcpc said:
Will happen with Starfield.

Some of it sure, but BGS games have been heavily criticized, and praised, since before they were bought

Wrench · Jun 26, 2023

5taquitos said:
22 pages about incomplete sales data for one country.

lol

Still have a ways to go to reach the 34 page thread of RedFall only releasing with 30 FPS mode!

CenaToon · Jun 26, 2023

Welfare said:
Man I am tired of seeing the XV disrespect. It sold another 5M after launch, and going by all the "slashed prices slashed prices!!!" at launch claims, it sold through what, +6M after the first week?

Stop saying XV did bad or the reception to it was bad. It sold almost as much as XII and XIII did LIFE TIME in LEGS. Bad games don't sell millions at "slaaaaashed priiiiiices!!!!!!"

I'll never understand the diss to price cuts or sales in games.

In one hand you have this forum screaming for cheaper prices of games.

In the other hand "ha! those sales dont count because the game was ass cheap then!"

Ahuitzotl · Jun 26, 2023

Spehornoob said:
Even if the digital split is huge, I still don't think it'll reach XV and I definitely don't think it'll reach the wide new audience they were hoping for, unless some legs really hit it. Youtube views were relatively low during the whole marketing cycle and, while the demo seemed to be a hit, it feels like it may have been too little too late. I sincerely love the game, but the reactions to pretty much every showing have been muted in terms of the mainstream. It never seemed to hit how they wanted it to.

The funny thing is, with some feedback, I really think the something that builds on XVI could absolutely be *that* breakout game. There's a lot to love with XVI, a few stumblings aside. I'm absolutely loving my time with the game and I think its the best single player FF game since at least XII.

If I were to take a few guesses, I think the lack of a real party system hurt it. I know that's been my one gripe with the game, so take me with a grain of salt, but I legit think the ensemble cast is a marketing point in the series. You can't show a ton of heartwarming party interaction and cool gameplay with different characters in the trailers if its really focused on a single character and those moments don't exist much (and where they do exist are story spoilers so you can't put many of them in trailers). Think about when Barret or Tifa showed up and were seen as playable in the VII Remake trailers. People popped off. And nostalgia was a big thing for that, of course, but it was also just cool to see the different characters and their styles. Those hype moments couldn't really exist in FFXVI marketing because of its single character focus, and I do think an ensemble cast matters in these games.

Also, much as I personally like the setting, I think the "grounded" (lol to say that about the game having actually gone through it) medieval setting hurt it. It made sense when the game started development and Witcher 3 and GOT-Fever were everywhere, but by the time it released, those boons had faded. I think it's relatively clear that the outlandish character designs and crazy cheeseball tropes (I say it with all the love in the world for Final Fantasy cheese) are an appealing element to the series.

I really don't think the action combat or the lack of RPG elements (which is a criticism I pretty vehemently disagree with, at least in comparison to the rest of its own series) hurt it. FFXV had strong sales and was an action game. Honestly, the marketing of FFXVI as "the first action FF game" was fucking bizarre. I personally think FFXVI is a vastly better game overall than FFXV, but XV had an immediately emotional story hook with its characters at the forefront, weird and striking character design, an interesting (at least on a surface level) "modern fantasy" world, and, loathe as I am to say it, an open world.

Yea I don't think the WOM is going to be that strong, Elden ring and both BOTW games have huge explosion of Tiktok videos and like/views (50k likes>) when they first released, but with FF 16 the only hugely popular videos I've checked are Asmon videos.

Hu3 · Jun 26, 2023

5taquitos said:
22 pages about incomplete sales data for one country.

lol

That's era for you and the curse of exclusive games.

Bunch of bad faith actors, console warriors, port begging, hiding behind this Twitter post.

Deleted member 15170 · Jun 26, 2023

oty said:
Xbox will always try a GP deal with them. why wouldnt they? they do with less famous JRPG brands. and tbh it's only a matter of time till Square accepts one of them aka when Sony starts paying them less

I personally can't see it especially if Xbox starts knocking it out of the park.

I don't think Sony will start paying them less but when problem asked for more concessions like maybe two years instead of one.

Jisgsaw · Jun 26, 2023

Welfare said:
Stop saying XV did bad or the reception to it was bad.

It was, and rightfully so, launch FF15 was clearly unfinished and burst at the seams of its trouble development in lots of places.

But nice to see the usual FF cycle of praising the last instalment when a new one comes out while it was decried as (at least) a "bad FF" (if not outright bad game) when it came out. Happens since X.

Dalik · Jun 26, 2023

Sunbane said:
I personally can't see it especially if Xbox starts knocking it out of the park.

I don't think Sony will start paying them less but when problem asked for more concessions like maybe two years instead of one.

There's a chance that the "lower" sales of XVI will make them reconsider their position, either ask for more or have PC release day1.

dannzibar · Jun 26, 2023

I honestly wonder how much profit was ever expected to come from this. The extremely narrow scope of the game makes it feel like a stop gap to create an engine and assets that can be leveraged for something more ambitious (and profitable) in the future. If they can hire some competent level designers, that is…

Chris Dring: Final Fantasy XVI UK boxed sales 74% lower than FFXV

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