The problem is when I see people from Mexico asking for these methods. I understand the situation is dire, but people aren't thinking with their heads.
Chaos and confusion in Culiacán, Mexico following arrest of El Chapo's son
- Thread starter Tochtli79
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Duterte was elected a little over 30 years after Marcos was deposed. Bolsonaro about 30 years after the military government fell in Brazil.
so, yeah, give it another decade and it'll be the case.
that is a danger, but Mexico is not the Philippines nor Brazil, so who knows.
People are getting ahead of themselves though. The new government isn't a year old and some people are already panicking.
Crime during AMLO's tenure as mayor of Mexico City went down slowly, but by year five it was clear there was progress and then it continued with Ebrad. Notwithstanding, conservatives and his opposition were still saying the city was in the brink of collapse all the time.
Wouldn't you be? The murder rate hit an all-time high in 2019.
Meanwhile Trump's successfully exacerbated the crisis by demanding that Mexican troops watch the border.
After hitting an all time high for like, three years straight. I live in Tijuana, so I know. Ive awoken in the middle of the night to gunfire nearby and screams. While personally crime has never affected immediate family or friends, I've known plenty of friends and family of victims and well, I smell burning dead bodies daily because I live next to the municipal morgue that constantly is over capacity with dead bodies.
But it's either complete panic or accept that there isn't an easy solution to this. People acting like suddenly, after more than a decade of this shit, NOW is the time to panic, make me wonder where they've been all this time.
Holy shit @ people wishing forgein military intervention. How many Mexican people actually would welcome such intervention? Couple of dead civilians by hands of US military/drone and you would be fighting against civilians and cartels. I understand intelligence cooperation between nations and I assume that is already happening.
But I don't see many ways out of this. Long as drugs keep making money there isn't much you can do. Philippines are good example how even most extreme interventions don't really help.
But I don't see many ways out of this. Long as drugs keep making money there isn't much you can do. Philippines are good example how even most extreme interventions don't really help.
My mother was worried about me being in the Turkey/Syria border, but it looks like I'm the one that must be worry about her.
It's cocaine. There's also a lucrative internal market for all type of drugs. Then you have some of the most violent cartels that also do extortion, kidnapping, slavery, trafficking and so on. Then there's many cartel money in legit business to laundry money. In my city one of the main public transport companies is from one cartel. They are basically everywhere, that is what makes it so complicated.
Yeah, it is either failed state, US intervention and now even US annexation? Shit is getting to stupid here.
Yeah, Tijuana in 2008 was a nightmare, Monterrey in 2012 and so on. Narco violence moves depending on the fighting and dismemberment of cartels. The legacy of PAN and Calderon. But then again, the hatred some people here have for AMLO is insane that they basically forget all that and put all the blame on MORENA, like if he started the war. Anyway, AMLO deserved a lot of blame, his first year so far has been a mess. First changing all his migration policy thanks to Trump demands, then having no clear strategy on how to manage the war against cartels.
It's cocaine. There's also a lucrative internal market for all type of drugs. Then you have some of the most violent cartels that also do extortion, kidnapping, slavery, trafficking and so on. Then there's many cartel money in legit business to laundry money. In my city one of the main public transport companies is from one cartel. They are basically everywhere, that is what makes it so complicated.
Yeah, it is either failed state, US intervention and now even US annexation? Shit is getting to stupid here.
Yeah, Tijuana in 2008 was a nightmare, Monterrey in 2012 and so on. Narco violence moves depending on the fighting and dismemberment of cartels. The legacy of PAN and Calderon. But then again, the hatred some people here have for AMLO is insane that they basically forget all that and put all the blame on MORENA, like if he started the war. Anyway, AMLO deserved a lot of blame, his first year so far has been a mess. First changing all his migration policy thanks to Trump demands, then having no clear strategy on how to manage the war against cartels.
Yes, it's hard to argue that this isn't new while not sounding like I'm making excuses for the current government.
At best, a lot of their fuck ups have been naïveté, and at worst incompetence. I voted for AMLO and I was not stupid enough to think everything was going to be solved in less than a year or even one or two, but they have total control of the federal government and several local ones too now. Here in Baja they'll soon have control of every city, congress and the governor, while having a president as an ally. They are running out of excuses for not showing some progress on crime and safety.
Guns from the U.S aren't significant sources. The quoted stat about traced weapons being from the U.S as far as i can tell is a percentage of the guns submitted from Mexico to the U.S for tracing, and without the numbers for the amount of guns seized in total vs the amount being traced, the 70%-90% of firearms being traced to the U.S is misleading. At least on the face of it, if there are articles, I would like to to see them.
As for shit like RPGs, machine guns, I don't think they come from the U.S. Most likely lots of guns get diverted from military and police depots to the cartels probably.
As for shit like RPGs, machine guns, I don't think they come from the U.S. Most likely lots of guns get diverted from military and police depots to the cartels probably.
Most people are incredibly naive when it comes to the weapons trade. The cartels have money to burn, they have their own weapons being smuggled in on boats, and not necessarily from America.
A GAO report from 2009, has the following section. The report itself uses the 87% figure, that 87% of firearms are traced back to the U.S. The .pdf on page 74, has comments from Homeland Security, where they question the use of that statistic, which I will provide a image below.
With that said, the report is quite illuminating on how more background and expanded checks on gun purchases might be able to allow better tracing of the gun smuggling to Mexico.
User Banned (1 Week): Antagonizing another member, Inflammatory rhetoric, Accumulated infractions
Chairo detected.
What in the name of fuck is this conference.
This is fucking indefensible. It's a bare faced abdication of responsibility. AMLO just straight up telling people that the State won't defend itself because he wants no more violence.
I always thought he was sketchy, but this is a whole new level of recklessness.
This is fucking indefensible. It's a bare faced abdication of responsibility. AMLO just straight up telling people that the State won't defend itself because he wants no more violence.
I always thought he was sketchy, but this is a whole new level of recklessness.
OP
OP
People, it's 2019, do we really need more proof that US invasions and imperialism aren't the magical solution to everything?
That being said, AMLO made it clear he's not taking responsibility for this and that they have no strategy in the morning briefing. Can't believe how hypocritical Morena turned out. Years spent criticizing government ineptitude and they come into power and have no idea what to do and make excuses for every failure. I hope pressure keeps building on him because he needs to sort this shit out. The media are pretty much all in agreement that this was a huge failure, left and right, and Twitter hashtag are mostly calling on him to resign. This is gonna be the defining incident of his govnerment.
That being said, AMLO made it clear he's not taking responsibility for this and that they have no strategy in the morning briefing. Can't believe how hypocritical Morena turned out. Years spent criticizing government ineptitude and they come into power and have no idea what to do and make excuses for every failure. I hope pressure keeps building on him because he needs to sort this shit out. The media are pretty much all in agreement that this was a huge failure, left and right, and Twitter hashtag are mostly calling on him to resign. This is gonna be the defining incident of his govnerment.
So serious question. What should be done? Us intervention seems unwanted and would just be a bloody war, the feeder state seems to give up and the local governments seem to have as well.
It seems like a straight up failed state to me.
It seems like a straight up failed state to me.
He already had the colossal failure that his immigration policy was. This would be the second. One one hand capturing cartel leaders alone is not going to do a thing (on the contrary, that strategy has created more violence), on the other hand you can not solve this with just good intentions and a call to change things like AMLO thinks. At this point any delinquent group knows they can push the government around.
So that's it. Our president has OFFICIALLY declared today that they are the Cartel's lapdogs. He literally stated that they will submit to the drug lords and their armies' demands in fear of chaos.
This comes from the "messiah" that would save Mexico from corruption and insecurity. This is the shit-filled man who spent decades complaining about each one of the previous presidents. The populist who promised an utopia and millions of idiots believed him despite the OBVIOUS signs of senility.
Fuck the liar and coward López Obrador, and fuck those who voted for him.
We told you so. Many, many times.
This comes from the "messiah" that would save Mexico from corruption and insecurity. This is the shit-filled man who spent decades complaining about each one of the previous presidents. The populist who promised an utopia and millions of idiots believed him despite the OBVIOUS signs of senility.
Fuck the liar and coward López Obrador, and fuck those who voted for him.
We told you so. Many, many times.
It is a really complex situation that has to do with decades of structural violence and inequity.
A lot of people forget or do not know, but until 2000 Mexico was a dictatorship. Not the typical dictatorship, it was a Party one. The PRI controlled the elections and for many year did fraud after fraud to stay in power. They would incarcerate the opposition, silence the media or just kill them. In 2000 everyone was expecting Vicente Fox, from the opposition, PAN, to win but everyone was also expecting that the PRI would steal the elections. To the surprise of many that did not happen and for the first time Federal elections were respected (at the local level the opposition had already won major victories). People expected great change, but instead the PAN put into motion the War Against Drugs with the "brilliant" strategy of capturing the top leaders and expect that that would dismantle the Cartels. The only thing that happened is that the seconds and thirds on power started fighting for control of the Cartels. The violence in some places of mexico was so bad people were scare to go out. These new Cartels in order to fund themselves started recurring to new forms of illegal funding like extortion, kidnapping, trafficking, slavery and so on. The different local governments (from all parties) find easier to accept Cartel money than to try to combat it. So why are Cartels so strong? In many ways for the massive poverty in Mexico. Many people prefer one year of glory as a Cartel member than a life of wage slavery. That has permeated in the local culture. Poverty and inequity are still growing and growing, changing parties or becoming a "democracy" did not changed that. So any effective strategy needs to take into account all those issues, not just start a bloody war. And it is something that is going to take decades to solve, not just 6 years. No president or party alone can change that. It is a national issue that needs all the key actors (from government to the media to private sector) and the cooperation of the Mexican society to change that. The current president, AMLO thought that Mexico still had some hope of national unity to change things, but he was really naive and now the people are paying the ineptitude of years and years of corrupt and/or incompetent government.
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I voted for AMLO, no one can say we'd be better with any of the other options.
What they did yesterday can't be defended, there are no excuses to be made, i still can't believe what happened, this is going to be a turning point for this government and i can't see how they come out of this, what the fuck were they thinking?
What they did yesterday can't be defended, there are no excuses to be made, i still can't believe what happened, this is going to be a turning point for this government and i can't see how they come out of this, what the fuck were they thinking?
Haha i love how , when the broomstick fits , they wear it proudly. Disgusting idiots.
Fuck outta here with that nonsense. The last thing any country needs is US imperialism.
Para mis hermanos y hermanas mexicanos, mantente a salvo. Pensaba en volver a México para convalidar mi licensia de abogada pero mejor me quedo en España. Tengo familia en Mazatlán, Los Mochis, Jalisco, y en Nayarit y temo por ellos si la violencia les alcanzan. La única solución que tengo para ellos es emigrar a España o otro país Latino, pero aún se quedan con la ilusión que los EEUU es el mejor país del mundo. De verdad, no sé que decirles.
Pregunta seria. I don't if you saw this thread, but... any suggestions on moving out to Spain? Was it hard?
Edit: I meant hard in the paperwork/immigration process. I know it must be hard to leave everything you know behind.
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OP
You know it isn't that black and white. This is a huge failure and AMLO's response or lack of one is bullshit. But him winning the election is directly tied to previous governments being so awful that many, myself included, saw him as the one last chance for change. If the PRI and especially the PAN had actually used the opportunities for change granted to them since 2000, Mexico would be in a much different place now.
I couldn't have voted for Anaya or Meade in good conscience either, as they were more of the same shit we've already had for decades. The clusterfuck that was the PAN during the last election cycle and the PRD forming an alliance with them made it an impossible choice between three terrible candidates. I was never a big fan of AMLO but Morena represented the highest chance for positive change, unfortunately they've been the complete opposite.
Yes, sure. Let's just allow them to hold the population hostage, that sets a very good precedent. Fuck that defeatist attitude. Thanks to it our country is a shit hole.
The government just set a very bad precedent. Can you fucking see that? You don't negotiate with narcos 🤦♂️
Cartels are so into the government that this is hardly going to change, if people stop using drugs then they are just going to kidnap and extort everyone, also mexican society is really backwards on this.
Just to let you know about random shit that happens in my city:
Most people feel proud because they know someone "important" that is in the cartel.
If you open a business (no matter big or small) you could get a visit from the cartels (usually a group of kids with guns) asking (through violent means) for their share (even educational institutions).
You see cartel sentinels (mostly kids/teenagers or adults on poverty) on every other corner with their radio reporting activities, and they don't even bother to hide it.
Every once in a while you see thrashed SUVs full of teenagers with high caliber guns/rifles (these little shits are their sicarios).
Also you see millitary trucks with bigass machine guns mounted, that belong to the cartels, most of them customized with stickers that read "Elite troop of hell" or some other stupid names that seems taken out from a call of duty clan.
Shootings in plain day ever other week, and daily shootings on the ugly parts of the city.
(Note the emphasis on their cowardly ways of using the young)
I could say that the change is going to come through education and higher paid wages, but many people that are in criminal activities is because they get kidnapped and put to work for them, you cant overthrow them since they have so much power in the government and in the street, these people don't respect anything, terrorist is a soft word to describe them, outside interferencee will only make it uglier since they dont have a code and will take many innocent people down with them, as seen yesterday, "capture our chiefs son and we will burn everything to the ground"
Legalization is a start since there is so much money to be made and people will always need their drugs, but there will linger some groups that will exploit people through other means, the conclusion is that we hope they kill each other on their struggle to power.
This shit is really pathetic, and i hope people understood what kind of drive-by comment this is.
Just to let you know about random shit that happens in my city:
Most people feel proud because they know someone "important" that is in the cartel.
If you open a business (no matter big or small) you could get a visit from the cartels (usually a group of kids with guns) asking (through violent means) for their share (even educational institutions).
You see cartel sentinels (mostly kids/teenagers or adults on poverty) on every other corner with their radio reporting activities, and they don't even bother to hide it.
Every once in a while you see thrashed SUVs full of teenagers with high caliber guns/rifles (these little shits are their sicarios).
Also you see millitary trucks with bigass machine guns mounted, that belong to the cartels, most of them customized with stickers that read "Elite troop of hell" or some other stupid names that seems taken out from a call of duty clan.
Shootings in plain day ever other week, and daily shootings on the ugly parts of the city.
(Note the emphasis on their cowardly ways of using the young)
I could say that the change is going to come through education and higher paid wages, but many people that are in criminal activities is because they get kidnapped and put to work for them, you cant overthrow them since they have so much power in the government and in the street, these people don't respect anything, terrorist is a soft word to describe them, outside interferencee will only make it uglier since they dont have a code and will take many innocent people down with them, as seen yesterday, "capture our chiefs son and we will burn everything to the ground"
Legalization is a start since there is so much money to be made and people will always need their drugs, but there will linger some groups that will exploit people through other means, the conclusion is that we hope they kill each other on their struggle to power.
This shit is really pathetic, and i hope people understood what kind of drive-by comment this is.
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What a fucking shameless clown. Did you see his response to the question from the journalist from El Reforma? FUCK López Obrador.
I saw a video of a check point with military soldiers shaking hands, letting the cartel take over the check point.
Its like, who is running the city?
U.S. intervention? LOL. Some of you cannot be serious with this shit, especially given who is currently Commander in Chief. Stop being stupid.
When a government cedes its monopoly of force because it is unable to protect its citizenry, that government loses all legitimacy.
Also wtf is up with that mentality? I lived in Mazatlán, and my entire family lives in Sinaloa. This situation affects me just as much.
Like clockwork, the only defense he got is "it's not our fault, we inherited the chaos, if you dare label this operation as a failure, you're part of the conservative media".
Fucking incompetent imbecile.
Are these Mexican "security forces" the police? It seems like the cartel is too heavily armed for a police force to confront. Do these operations ever involve the Mexican Armed Forces?
I know for Latin-Americans, it only takes two years to get their Spanish citizenship.
Whenever theres an encounter between the cartel and armed forces, is usually the military and/or state forces... the local police is on the side of the cartels on most states and some cities dont even bother to have one because they just serve as vigilantes for the cartels.
It goes Military > State Forces > Local Police Forces..
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I'm from Sinaloa, mind you not currently on the state. But my family and friends are in Sinaloa. What he did is inexcusable, the government should not surrender the city to the narcos. I've always said that against the federal goverment the narcos stand no chance because they're facing the full force of the state. Now they actually won.
I lived just 200 meters from where they captured El Chapo in Los Mochis. Awoke to the sound of grenades, shit ton of gunfire, helicopters flying just barely over houses and a three level school at 4-5 in the morning. The city full of soldiers in every square, with all the manconvers of sewage watched over soldiers. This extended for hours, and they were rumors of heavy reinforcements coming to free el Chapo from Juan Jose Rios. You could probably dig my post of that day saying all of this but in a much less calm way, but I believe is in the other forum.
Not in a single moment, myself or my family. (I had to go with my scared mother to the grocery store that day) we though of the goverment giving up el Chapo.
Yesterday is inexcusable.
I'm from Culiacán. Do I have your permission to keep complaining?
I rarely comment on my country's affairs, but even though I voted for Obrador (and I still believe was the right choice), this decision is completely unacceptable and so far, has been handled in the worst possible way:
Not only it was not a regular operative (despite denials), but even if we were to concede that he may had secret reasons to capitulate (to avoid an impending massive catastrophe, like the coercive action against the military families), under absolutely no circumstance you expose the armed forces of the damn country to spearhead the pacification's agreements with terrorists. That's why you have politicians and civilian negotiators to take the fall. That video/photos will be used as propaganda for ages.
This move not only severely undermines his own government and throws away any credibility in the security strategy, but essentially spits on every effort the armed forces had done and will do in the near future. And of course, it gives complete ammunition for the Right-leaning parties to play in upcoming elections.
Furthermore, this will put far more pressure on him to act forcefully against criminals to save face, which in turns will increase the chance of mistakes and mishandling.
And, handles a nice present for Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Incredibly stupid decision, but the scope of its consequences is the most pressing matter now.
Not only it was not a regular operative (despite denials), but even if we were to concede that he may had secret reasons to capitulate (to avoid an impending massive catastrophe, like the coercive action against the military families), under absolutely no circumstance you expose the armed forces of the damn country to spearhead the pacification's agreements with terrorists. That's why you have politicians and civilian negotiators to take the fall. That video/photos will be used as propaganda for ages.
This move not only severely undermines his own government and throws away any credibility in the security strategy, but essentially spits on every effort the armed forces had done and will do in the near future. And of course, it gives complete ammunition for the Right-leaning parties to play in upcoming elections.
Furthermore, this will put far more pressure on him to act forcefully against criminals to save face, which in turns will increase the chance of mistakes and mishandling.
And, handles a nice present for Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Incredibly stupid decision, but the scope of its consequences is the most pressing matter now.
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Wow, that's wild! Does that extend across the entire country or just the areas effected by the Drug Cartel?
It is.
Depends on the state/city, but you can expect that cities with cartel activity to have the police/cops on their side, it's not like they go around doing crimes, they kinda do a cops work but report to cartels.
In my city you usually see military vehicles, US army style, patroling, it doesn't have cops.
It's crazy, military/state forces have the firepower, but they just cant engage in a fight unless they are attacked first and there are some stupid rules on how they can engage on a firefight or else the troops get suspended / fired (something to do with the mexican human rights commision) there was a case recently in a near city where something like this happened, which makes you wonder how up in the chain the corruption goes.
He's gone full Trump, has for a while actually, still blaming the past administrations and the press. Fucking pathetic.