Celeste - Overstaying its Welcome

[Dogui]

You can't use optional content as an "overstaying its welcome" argument imo.

I never do the optional super hard content in platformers and have no problems in calling myself a platformer lover :' )

Maybe the actual problem is calling that content ch8/9, but it's like, only an arbitrary measure. I can't see the act of reaching the summit not being the end of story tbh.

 

[never]

I guess they added on to the end of the game. Chapter 9 wasn't there when I played it and I felt like the ending of the game was awesome without it.

That game was very taxing and the ending felt rewarding already, I don't think I'd bother going back to it for more. Still one of my favorite experiences playing a game though.

 

[Saray]

Yep. Finished the main game but i have no desire to do all the requirements to get into the dlc. Way too long for what it have to offer.

 

[Captain_Cold]

Agreed, and I didn't even make it as far as you. I waited to play this until it was released physically on Switch and had bought into the hype, expecting something great. I was with it until about the hotel level when I found myself wishing it would just get on with it. By the time it got to the dark level with all the beholder looking enemies it felt like Tedium: the game and I'd had enough. Shelved it and haven't picked it up since. I'm a completionist so I'll usually power through something even if I don't love it, but I was so ready for this one to end that I just couldn't go on at a certain point.

 

[Johnnybarra]

I don't understand why you're searching for and playing the B-Sides if your problems are length and too many spikes

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Agreed, I feel like most people get their fill from finishing the main campaign and being done with it.

Personally I got the A, B and C sides done with but that dlc is so difficult. I have put the game down for months and eventually I'll try and finish it but that is so impossible.

 

[Vampirolol]

I find the game kinda boring and agree with many of the things I've read in this thread.
Platform games are my bread but I can't bring myself to finish Celeste. Somehow the controls never clicked with me, it just felt like poor man's Super Meat Boy at times.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I feel like all the extra stuff is there for people who are having a blast and want more. If you're already not having a blast, playing all the hardcore extra stuff isn't likely to help.

 

[Ximonz]

I would argue that I had no idea Ch.8 and 9 are extra stuff lol,
cuz after complete Ch.7 unlocked 8 and the story goes on, so naturally I just keep playing.
it was until the second gate in the middle of Ch.9 I realize it might be something extra.

 

[Cyberclops]

I'd personally like the game more if the levels were half half as long and there were maybe 2 more chapters.

The B-sides were a much nicer length for me.

 

[KillerDark]

Hard disagree, the challenge level was great the whole way through.

 

[KeRaSh]

I feel like comparing the game to Mario (Maker) isn't really the best way to go about it.
Yes, both are platformers but I'd say Celeste is closer to Super Meat Boy (although easier and with more mechanics) than it is to Mario games.
Celeste can get away with difficult and sometimes not so obvious moves to progress because the game expects you to fail a lot but it never really punishes you for failing. You instantly respawn and you got a lot of checkpoints so you never really lose too much progress.
The game is about teaching you a mechanic and then making that mechanic slightly more difficult with every section while remixing the idea depending on the theme of the level. In that way it's actually pretty similar to the way Mario games are designed but that's about it.

I thought the game had the perfect length and I even dabbled with some B-Sides and collecting some missed collectibles after beating the game once.

 

[eXistor]

I finished the main story and quit there. Not that it's not a good game, but it's not my type of platformer. I didn't care much for Meatboy either, though I did really like VVVVV.

I do appreciate how every world has its own gimmick, so it managed to stay fresh for at least those hours it took to finish it, but after that I had no interest in going on.

 

[CarlSagan94]

Chapter 9 and the B and C sides are additional content if you want to play harder and more cruel levels than the main game. You beat the main game, so I don't really understand your complaint.

I thought the pace and level design was brilliant honestly, so if you disagree with that, well then agree to disagree. B and C sides were significantly more difficult and didn't finish the last C side. I think there is an argument that chapter 9 being so incredibly difficult and having story content is a little unfair though.

 

[SimonSimon]

I loved Celeste AND stopped playing when I felt like I completed enough optional challenges to feel satisfied. I didn't try for all the B-sides, and I didn't beat Chapter 9.

I'd still call it one of my all time favorite games. And at some point I might go back to it. But the fact that there's extra content that I'm not interested in tackling right now doesn't make the game any worse. Though when I beat the game there was Chapter 9, so it was clear when it came out that it was an extra challenge.

 

[the_wart]

The post-game content (which is everything after the summit) really isn't meant to be plowed straight through. It's much better to chip away at it a bit at a time, and put it down when you feel yourself getting frustrated. Heck, chapter 9 alone took me something like 20 hours, but that was spread out over several weeks.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

Personally it's my favourite plateformer of all time, i wanted it to go even longer, man i hope they'll do something as good for their next game (a solo experience, not multiplayer like towerfall)

and yeah nothing forces you to do the optionnal content! If you want the hearts just for the story, then use assist mode if it's too much of a bother, it's here for that purpose!

 

[zashga]

The regular end of the game is A-side chapter 7; it's perfectly fine to stop there. You should only play chapter 8 if you really like the game, and you should only bother with all the B-sides and chapter 9 if you love it after that. Chapter 9 in particular is hours long and was added as a free update over a year after the game came out, so I can see why trying to mainline straight to that could seem like a little much.

I will say that by the time I finished chapter 9 I found going back to all of the C-sides (which I hadn't done before) to be much easier in comparison. Chapter 9 is definitely intended for people who did everything, all B- and C-sides, in the first 8 chapters and still want more. If that's not you then I don't recommend it.

All that said, I adore Celeste. It's easily one of my favorite games in this entire generation.

 

[FreddeGredde]

I like that there's a lot of content for those who want more of it. That's how you should go on about all games: If you don't love the mechanics and style, just finish the main game.

I'm replaying Super Meat Boy these days, played it ages ago but don't really remember much. And wow, in my opinion Celeste is like, ten levels above it. I am enjoying Super Meat Boy decently enough, but Celeste's visuals and music is so mature and elegant that it feels like a different medium. The plot and presentation is obviously on a whole different level as well. And what I love about Celeste is how coherent it is, that it often feels more like a metroidvania than just random challenging rooms after another. And then the controls of course, some of the best and tightest ever in Celeste, while you're flirping around like crazy in Super Meat Boy. I wouldn't call them bad in SMB, they're quite flexible compared to a lot of other stuff in the genre, but again, the amazing thing about Celeste is how many moves there are, how many special techniques, and how all of it is so very adjustable and flexible. A millisecond difference, and your angle will change! That's what I love about it.

This really just turned into a random rant, but what I'm trying to say that for me, Celeste is in a league of its own even compared to other highly rated platformers. If it had a bit more level/environmental variety, it would be clearly above Super Mario Bros 3 and World for me. It's that special.

 

[Scruffy8642]

Your first mistake is attempting chapter 9 before doing all the B and C sides... it's a 12+ hour level (literally as long as all A and B sides combined) that's a culmination of everything you should've learnt in the game + new mechanics.

Personally I found the A sides really boring and with rather annoying level design, but the B and C sides are platformer perfection and just Make every other platformer feel so inadequate. Maybe it's just me but Mario feels so damn boring And tame in comparison. The sheer amount of mechanics the game may make you string together in a single screen is overwhelming but the feeling when you get through it is like nothing else. I really wanted a platformer to sink my teeth into, and Celeste gives that in droves.

I do agree that at times it can be ridiculous with the kinds of gaps you have to get through, but the vast majority of the game is just about managing to string all the mechanics together.

 

[Thera]

When you clear a particularly punishing room, it's like you've done it by accident rather than by finesse, without necessarily feeling like you've earned it or that you can do it again consistently.

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No
And why your all post is about this design against an other ? Celeste is my favorite 2D platformer and DKCTF is probably just after.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

No
And why your all post is about this design against an other ? Celeste is my favorite 2D platformer and DKCTF is probably just after.

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I liked Celeste immensely for a game that isn't my style and isn't where I'd like other platformers to go. That's beside the point. To contrast these games is not to say you must only like one or pick one at the exclusion of the other, but to recognize that they are pursuing objectively different visions of how difficulty in a platformer ought to operate—how flexible things should be when it cones to headroom, spacing, speed, pathfinding, and so on.

I'd rather pitch my tent on roomy player agency and large-scale consistency, not micro-adjustments that steadily get in sync with one right method or answer. There comes a point with difficulty tuning in any game (damage numbers in a strategy game or RPG, for instance) where it reduces the space of meaningful decisions available to the player, rather than pushing your mastery of the whole kit. This comes with diminishing returns. I don't find refining raw inputs and reflexes to be anywhere as interesting as developing tactics, and ideally, a platformer at the high end should be about both.

Celeste hits that sweet spot relatively often, all things considered, but often leans quite hard on its checkpoint-every-screen structure and tightens its error margins in ways that don't make the interactions any more compelling than they were already. If you're into that, suit yourself.

Obviously we're talking about a game that is thematically (as well as mechanically) about persistence, and that synergy is nice, but that's also where I find myself in cordial disagreement. As in: I think this game makes its point remarkably well—I just also happen to think it's wrong. Success isn't just about rote repetition and practice, and is honestly kind of boring when it is.

I'm probably underselling just how much I enjoyed Celeste—I really did!—but I'll never hold it up as a top-flight platformer as its conception of the genre just isn't my type. I don't play video games to follow orders.

 

[Xeno]

B-sides are optional. They're meant to be more difficult versions of the regular levels.

Chapter 9 is DLC, and yeah, I think it leans way too heavily on some of the more obscure tech in the game.

The base game is still fantastic and I frankly loved the B-sides and C-sides as well, even though I haven't beaten all the C-sides yet.

 

[Basquiat]

I nearly drooped the game at the hotel level. Glad I powered through though!

 

[Thera]

I don't find refining raw inputs and reflexes to be anywhere as interesting as developing tactics, and ideally, a platformer at the high end should be about both.

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Says who ?

Obviously we're talking about a game that is thematically (as well as mechanically) about persistence, and that synergy is nice, but that's also where I find myself in cordial disagreement.

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So you have a problem with the game not that the game has a problem.

 

[Mirage]

The regular end of the game is A-side chapter 7; it's perfectly fine to stop there. You should only play chapter 8 if you really like the game, and you should only bother with all the B-sides and chapter 9 if you love it after that. Chapter 9 in particular is hours long and was added as a free update over a year after the game came out, so I can see why trying to mainline straight to that could seem like a little much.

I will say that by the time I finished chapter 9 I found going back to all of the C-sides (which I hadn't done before) to be much easier in comparison. Chapter 9 is definitely intended for people who did everything, all B- and C-sides, in the first 8 chapters and still want more. If that's not you then I don't recommend it.

All that said, I adore Celeste. It's easily one of my favorite games in this entire generation.

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Yeah the thing is Chapter 9 came out over a year and a half later and mostly people don't return to games for stuff like that. It's aimed at a bit different audience. Of course new people will still run in to it but they at least make you do the B sides to unlock the whole thing.

 

[Viale]

You beat the game dude. B and C sides are for gluttons of punishment and people that just want more.

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It's this. The completionist in me made me do them, but I regret it. B and C sides actively lowered my perception of the game.

 

[Deleted member 69573]

I forgot about the accessibility stuff... I quit around after the wind area because it turned into the type of platformer I don't really care for (still an amazing game though). I should finish it for real and see if the area after where I stopped improves things for me.

Saying all that, I did complete the in game Pico 8 version lol

 

[Lobster Roll]

OP you've successfully argued against yourself. The B-sides, C-Sides, Chapter 8, Chapter 9, and Golden Strawberries are all free, optional content. It's all bonus modes. A game cannot "overstay it's welcome" if the bonus modes is where you stopped. It's actually the opposite. You've overstated YOUR welcome, and you're considering bouncing from the game. That's how it's designed. It's designed to allow players to go as deep as they want until they decide "nope, that's enough for me".

 

[Ximonz]

OP you've successfully argued against yourself. The B-sides, C-Sides, Chapter 8, Chapter 9, and Golden Strawberries are all free, optional content. It's all bonus modes. A game cannot "overstay it's welcome" if the bonus modes is where you stopped. It's actually the opposite. You've overstated YOUR welcome, and you're considering bouncing from the game. That's how it's designed. It's designed to allow players to go as deep as they want until they decide "nope, that's enough for me".

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to my defense I actually didn't know Ch.8 and 9 are DLC when I made the topic,
they came with the game when I bought it a few days ago.
and the story goes on so I naturally continued to play.

 

[Nax]

Some of the levels were definitely way too long.

 

[Stoof]

Was easily my game of 2018. I need to go back and play Ch. 9.

 

[Lobster Roll]

to my defense I actually didn't know Ch.8 and 9 are DLC when I made the topic,
they came with the game when I bought it a few days ago.
and the story goes on so I naturally continued to play.

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The game is about climbing a mountain literally and figuratively. You end Chapter 7 by reaching the peak, and the coming down it with the credits rolling. You even get a congratulatory end of game photo with all of the characters eating cake lol. Going into Chapter 8 is heading towards the core of the mountain. It's the opposite of what you've been doing to this point.

 

[Stopdoor]

well as someone mentioned if you wanna see the end of the story (second half of Ch.9)
you have to complete B-sides

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I get what you're after and it makes you want to stomach through it but if you're really not enjoying B-Sides, Farewell will make you hate the game entirely. The difficulty spike is even greater. It might not be worth it, better to watch a YouTube video.

 

[ohitsluca]

Any complaints I would have had about difficulty of the main game were offset by the relatively generous checkpoint system. I did the main story and the b-sides, c-sides I tapped out. If you play all the optional content I can see getting burned out

 

[WestEgg]

I think the story of the game is well paced and people just looking for that should find it manageable and satisfying, while the B and C sides are there to satisfy people looking for a huge challenge. It works pretty well.

Having said that, I think chapter 9 being story focused but requiring having beaten the hardest stages, while also being even more difficult itself was a mistake. The challenges exist for their own sake, but having the narrative continue into the hardest part of the game makes it feel like a requirement to get the "full" story experience. This means most people will either not experience it, or will need to utilize the accessibility options (as well as need to have spent a significant amount of time beating the story-less B and C side levels) to even see it.

 

[Dyle]

I would agree that Chapter 9 and the B sides do stretch things longer than they need to, but the b sides are optional content and none of it is bad, it's just a bit of a bummer you have to make it through them in order to get to the really good stuff in the C sides, which ditches all the filler and makes for much more satisfying levels. Chapter 9 is a lot weaker than the base game, as it fails to effectively teach the new mechanics and advanced techniques needed to beat it, which is a shame considering that the main game did such a good job of that

 

[DNAbro]

You beat the game and then continued playing and are upset about that.

 

[mentallyinept]

IMO, It's tied for the best 2D platformer of the last 10 years with Super Meat Boy.

I couldn't disagree more with the level design comments every screen feels sublime to me.

As for Chapter 9... I got almost 100% in the original game (Chapters 1-8, All *normal* strawberries, B-Sides and C-Sides complete), and I straight-up cannot complete Chapter 9.

The hyper jump inputs are too difficult for me. I can get the boost, but I can't reliably get my jump back when doing it.

 

[WestEgg]

You beat the game and then continued playing and are upset about that.

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The story continuing with numbered chapters beyond the credits kind of undermines this though, especially when the story keeps going. Plenty of games roll credits before the game has actually been beaten, for example NieR Automata or Dragon Quest XI

 

[Deleted member 8901]

I enjoyed my time with it but the post-game stuff was brutal and I didn't have it in me to play anymore of it.

 

[Łazy]

The feeling is valid, the title isnt.
If anything you are overstaying your welcome in that case lol.

But yeah, it's extra hard. Don't remember where I stopped but I remember finishing some kind of ice and lava cave.

 

[Antrax]

You already beat the game. I personally played to the Summit, enjoyed a really tight story and gameplay loop, and was satisfied. I'll never do the DLC. That's for difficulty junkies.

 

[wideface]

Okami overstays its welcome. Celeste doesn't; all of that is optional.

 

[Mirage]

The feeling is valid, the title isnt.
If anything you are overstaying your welcome in that case lol.

But yeah, it's extra hard. Don't remember where I stopped but I remember finishing some kind of ice and lava cave.

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That was chapter 8 which was initially the only post game chapter.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

I kinda burned out on this style with meat boy. I get the appeal, but it's not for me anymore.

 

[Łazy]

That was chapter 8 which was initially the only post game chapter.

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Thanks. I'll probably go back to it one day.

 

[Simon21]

to my defense I actually didn't know Ch.8 and 9 are DLC when I made the topic,
they came with the game when I bought it a few days ago.
and the story goes on so I naturally continued to play.

Click to shrink...

Not sure how you didn't realise that you'd hit the post-game once the credits had rolled and you needed a certain number of extra items to keep progressing.

 

[GabriocheXD]

I've beaten the game numerous times. I love how creative the challenges get and how the game builds its level designs according to your skill progression. I've beaten nearly all platformers and to me, Celeste is the pinnacle of the genre. It's too bad you don't seem to like it very much!

 

[GattsuSama]

I'm with you op. Loved the game but it overstayed its welcome. It was fun but not in a " I need more of this" way.

And I think it is fair you wanted to keep playing for the story, even if the credits played. There is content you haven't beaten in the game you bought, content that seems to be part of the story. Your complaints are fair game.

 

[Natiko]

Yeah, I didn't love Celeste the way I expected to. It wasn't even a matter of it being too difficult - it just didn't pull me on the way a Super Meat Boy or N+ did.