I'm sorry, but what the hell is this? Where in the world did you get this notion?
Sorry for being off topic but its such a weird sentiment that I had to post
Boy stabs girl at school assembly up to 11 times after she rejected his advances
- Thread starter UnpopularBlargh
- Start date
Sorry for being off topic but its such a weird sentiment that I had to post
1. It is routinely used as an excuse for larger societal problems.
2. It's disparaging twords people who are mentally ill, as most people who are mentally ill are not violent as a result of their illness.
It doesn't happen nearly enough in the reverse to warrant considering this hypothetical. Violent outbursts are entirely a "masculine" response to rejection.
What actually happens is, under internalized masculinity, women are taught to blame themselves or turn their feelings inward, leading to anxiety, depression, occasionally suicide. Consider the bulimia epidemic of the 00s if you need an easy example.
But it's not the reverse. And men are overwhelmingly more violent towards women than woman are towards men. And that disparity seemingly has a reason...
Correction to this! I just reread it and noticed he stabbed her AFTER she had turned him down. So he went and found a knife and stabbed her after he had already been turned down. So he didn't stab her because she might reject him, it was a premeditated action he took after she had already rejected him... and he stabbed her in the back.
yes, a diagnosed mental illness. that this boy is not diagnosed with. there is also a difference between someone exhibiting antisocial behavior and having antisocial personality disorder.
Not talking about the numbers in which it happens, i'm talking about the why's in which it happens and the label it would get in reverse. That's why it's a hypothetical, because "toxic masculinity" and violence to rejection isn't linked or 1 to 1. It takes a certain type of person to do this.
I've never understood this idea of 'premeditation' in crime. All crimes are premeditated, you have to process the thought before you execute it. What does it matter if it's thirty seconds before or three days? If you walk in on your next door neighbour having sex with your wife, and you happen to keep a loaded handgun in the top drawer right next to the door, you're still deciding to take the gun out and murder them.
I've never bought the concept of people 'just seeing red' or whatever.
I'm sure there's been some spar of the moment crimes. Based on pure emotion.
Because the amount of violence against men from women is totally comparable. /s
In this country we have a serious problem in how we teach young men and boys on how to treat women. A result of this is this kid thinking it was okay to react violently because he was rejected.
You do not know how people with mental issues will behave because EACH AND EVERYONE will react differently to rejection.
I am sorry about your brother but we do not know the mental condition of the boy. He is 14 and he made a terrible act, he tried to murder another person.
All i say, with my posts is let us leave the peple they know more to tell us the facts before we form judgement.
Also, can you prove your claim with facts?
You can not prove premeditation with the info we currently have. He was rejected, he went furius and reacted by stabbing the girl.
Ugh, just disgusting. I'm glad the girl is doing okay.
I can easily picture his youtube and reddit history.
I can easily picture his youtube and reddit history.
Eh seeing red is hard to describe but I've had it happen a few times. It's not a fun experience.
I guess it's the nature of the beast and it's generational.
https://www.livescience.com/53047-why-female-mass-shooters-are-rare.html
Holy shit, man. Being a woman and turning down dudes sounds like an anxiety attack and a half. I glad this girl's alive. For all you girls who have to turn down guys afraid if they're gonna be a psycho incel type like this guy was, you have my condolences.
Toxic masculinity involves
1. A sensitivity to anything you may perceive as an attack on your masculinity
2. The capacity to become violent when your masculinity is threatened
3. A sense of entitlement to what you want to the extent that you may become violent if you do not get it
As well as other things. A man violently attacking a woman because he got rejected actually fits toxic masculinity perfectly.
The third surely applies, the first two are objective and can apply to many other gender types or mental make-ups.
But we have a label for those that act like the third and it isn't "toxic masculinity".
I won't pry, but that's an interesting thing for sure.
I've just googled it, and 'seeing red', or apparently 'the red mist' (which I hadn't heard of), doesn't have a Wiki page or as far as I can tell, some official medical term.
I'd create a thread about it, because I'm very curious, but I imagine any instances people have experienced they wouldn't be super up for discussing.
I've never hit a person, or even punched a hole in a plasterboard wall or whatever. I don't think I've ever been particularly angry actually. 'Miffed' is about as hot as I've ever gotten.
Please keep defending this boy with all your strength to prevent us from actually discussing toxic masculinity in favor for "waiting until the facts come out so by the time it does we can go to "it's in the past" exuse instead.
I should have put a comma there, he stabbed her 11 times for rejected him.
"Everyone acts differently" is okay for a lot of things, but no... stabbing someone as revenge for anything non-violent is not one of those things. I'm sorry. We may have a fundamental difference here, but it is what it is.
I had serious anger issues growing up and early adulthood, I would react instantly in much harsher ways initially than if I took a few seconds. I can completely understand the concept of 'going red'... but sure, let's take that out of the equation.
He still attempted to murder a girl because he was rejected by stabbing her 11 times in the back. This wasn't self defense, and it was still a crime. I'm not advocating he get tried as an adult, and of course he should get mental help while he's in juvenile... but mental illness is not an excuse for these actions.
There was a story a few years back of a guy shooting a women because she told him to stop catcalling her. This stuff isn't new and it's part of a larger societal problem where we don't teach young people, especially men, that rejection is a perfectly normal and natural thing, and that it shouldn't mean you think less of yourself or others.
It is true that women can and have perpetuated mass shootings, but it is also true that it is, relative to male mass shooters, statistically insignificant. The percentage ratio of female mass shooters vs. male mass shooters does not correlate to their population, nor does it correlate to gun ownership percentages.
I actually forgot about that one it's so hard to keep track of them all.
This shit is why women are afraid to reject men straight out.
When you have possibly dying and/or suffering trauma on the table it's no wonder women ghost men.
This.
Not everything can be explained away with the mental illness card.
When you have possibly dying and/or suffering trauma on the table it's no wonder women ghost men.
This.
Not everything can be explained away with the mental illness card.
From this one article you were able to make a psychiatric evaluation in this individual, verify the facts, and make a determination of motivation.
Nice.
(You May ultimately be right, I don't know, and if we all just want to talk about toxic masculinity, that's cool. But to summarily day this without any further support is at best academically lazy, and at worst intellectually dishonest).
It's important to have this conversation right now because it might be one of you who has to deal with a child or a child of a relative about their rejection and going "are you mentally ill?" is NOT going to help, nor well it help when you advise your friend or coworker or sibling that "maybe you should get him/her checked for MENTAL ILLNESS'. You, god forbid, one day may have to learn to read the signs for an unhealthy rejection and intervene before something like this spins out of control.
Well males on a large scale due to a lot of mitigating factors are unstable or have stunted over decades. Rather it's through family life, tribal attitudes, trends...etc. Always trying to tick the box of every generation and usually failing, or compounding the issues.
Thinking that what they believe or were thought or not thought is the way it should be.
Whether something can apply is irrelevant to whether it does. There is no violent reaction when one's femininity is questioned, for example.
Also, no, the label for the third is absolutely "toxic masculinity." It's not just the violence part, but the teachings that you are owed whatever you want in life is something that boys are taught.
What?
1. He has mental issues. He does not like to be rejected by anyone so he reacted violently to the person he thinks is his enemy.
2. He does not have mental issues. He thinks he is inlove with the girl, got angry and stabbed her furiusly.
I am not ruling out male entitlement but can not rule out mental issues or sexism (or even a mix) as a previous poster was kind to mention.
If you think that it's only boys that are taught that then, the floor is played south.
Exactly this. The broader picture is essential here to make any real analysis.
InsteadX folks want to read in what they want, make it an issue of whether it is or isn't (we have no idea), and go on doing whatever it is they want.
As for mental illness, I'm specially talking about antisocial disorder and/or a host of other issues. Not about someone who has depression.
I understand the sensivite nature of it all. But to fully understand, you have to get a broad picture.
If I'm following you correctly, what you're referring to is toxic masculinity.
The sort of Fight Club thing, of men have been told the world owes us status, and wealth, and women... That is what they're referring to.
Hey, keep on trucking with the deflections until the end of time. You've already done a great job stopping any conversation about toxic masculinity by constantly interrupting any and all conversations with "mental illness" and "let's just wait". I'm sure the victim loves how you keep giving him excuses for his abhorent behavior.
It is absolutely something boys are taught and not girls. For example, girls are less likely to be encouraged to enter into politics or go to college than boys, just as an example. The agency of women is typically put on a lower level than men, insomuch as a huge portion of our population sees women in part as a person who can do for men while men are seen as what they can do for themselves.
Thank you, I appreciate you saying this.
Right out of the NRA playbook.
No i'm not referring to toxic masculinity, because it's not a term. I'm referring to a generational issue, that is far more complex than a simple one word answer.
To pass around. Since it's not going to fix anything, this is deep rooted and has been compounded.
Though you do have the last part right.
Toxic masculinity is a term. What are you even talking about?
Also it's a two-word answer, not one.
Also also, why is mental illness an acceptable "one-word answer," but toxic masculinity isn't?
Also it's a two-word answer, not one.
Also also, why is mental illness an acceptable "one-word answer," but toxic masculinity isn't?
The "broader picture" is that this is one in a long line of incidents involving males unhappy with their romantic prospects.
None of us are missing this. Ignoring the existence of this pattern is, in fact, missing the "broader picture".
"Toxic masculinity is not a term. Btw this problem is 'generational', whatever that means."
None of us are missing this. Ignoring the existence of this pattern is, in fact, missing the "broader picture".
"Toxic masculinity is not a term. Btw this problem is 'generational', whatever that means."
I went back and ctrl+f to find who was using mental illness as an excuse. All I found was the Raven fellow asking if the kid had a mental illness. He is not really using it as an excuse. He offered some pieces of evidence about it being complicated. There are more posts in this thread about decrying the use of mental illness as an excuse than anyone actually using it as an excuse.
Individuals with disabilities (including cognitive, language, and pragmatic disorders) can indeed cause violence. Issues with cognitive development is more scientifically the root of social issues than toxic masculinity simply because toxic masculinity is not a diagnosis. (btw, just because this kid did not have a diagnosis, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a disorder. He just was not evaluated for it.) However, individuals with certain disorders can display the characteristics of toxic masculinity. So, the topics of "mental illness" and "toxic masculinity" can and should be discussed in the same conversation.
I agree with this. There are a lot of factors that most likely played into this horrible act. Mental illness should not be perfunctorily ruled out. I deal with mental issues (bipolarity) but I follow a regimen, a program, and take my medications and therapy seriously (this took a couple years for me to get this right). Now I'm fairly successful and most importantly my life is manageable again but I'm lucky because with some conditions even with rigorous discipline are nigh impossible to get straightened out without serious inpatient help. I'm not offended nor do I feel disparaged by people suggesting this person might not have been diagnosed or was acting consistently ATA.