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At face value what it says is that the yields were 50% at some point and have been gradually improving but are still bad.
For added context, everybody has been saying 7nm is more expensive than older nodes. It's also why all of AMDs 2019 GPUs were so tiny, whereas Nvidia's were so huge for basically the same price on 12nm. While TSMC 7nm has been a leader in yields and performance at that density, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that defects were still notable higher than they were on previous nodes.
I would LOVE to know why some people are so adamant the PS5 will be more expensive than the XSX.
We wouldn't in my hypothetical case. We'd get a $499 console with a $549/599 premium w/ a UHD Blu-ray. If they market the DE at $499 they hit their sweet spot. I honestly don't understand the $399 DE claims, though I'd love to be wrong as I'm a Day One
That's why you guys really need to follow wario64 and pre order asap when pre orders open
You'll be fighting resellers too
You'll be fighting resellers too
11 million PS5s is still a ridiculous amount of consoles and way more than they shipped with PS4 back in the day. I can't believe they wanted to ship 15 million, that's insane 😳.
Anyway, 11 million PS5s is still higher than the 10 million PS5s from previous reports.The console is still going to be in short supply but I'm hopeful I'll be able to get one this holiday.
Anyway, 11 million PS5s is still higher than the 10 million PS5s from previous reports.The console is still going to be in short supply but I'm hopeful I'll be able to get one this holiday.
They didn't, but it's still a fairly high clock speed and it's a very big chip which comes with it's own issues in terms of yields.
Is there a relationship between chip yield rates and console failure rate?
50% doesn't sound great but Cell processors for the PS3 were rumored to yield only 10-20% back in 2006 and yield was one reason one of the SPEs was disabled. Sony will manage.
We didn't read about yield issues recently on Xbox though and that's not the topic of the thread.
Sony chose to clock the GPU extremely high because of 36 cu and here we are.
No. The wafer will have a fixed price and whether you get 100 or 130 dies you still pay the same. So the lower your yields the more expensive each die is.
sony will never make it public, but wanna know what percent of chips work, but cant achive clocks, sony is defenitly clocking very agressivly. tsmc 7nm yelds are prity high as I understand it.
No the chips are different
Most likely due to aggressive cpu clocks. Also those prices were predictions just that is the lowest possible price. But does not equate to meaning those are the prices
I kinda doubt it. Pretty sure stores are going to make sure crowds are controlled when there's a pandemic still going. As far as online goes then yeah itll be like that lol.
XSX is clocked at 1.82 GHz, while PS5 is clocked at 2.23 GHz. Every CPU and GPU has a clock speed vs voltage curve, where there is an optimal point after which you start dramatically increasing necessary voltage for smaller increases in clock speed.
The exact curve varies not just model to model but individual gpu to individual gpu. If you've never tried overclocking on PC, you may never have encountered this, but some people get golden samples that can overclock like a demon and others get lemons that can only just meet the spec.
From a manufacturing perspective, the choice of where to set the spec is based on the percentage of their product which can meet said spec. For a console, these specs are usually conservative to maximise manufacturing yield - the fact that PS5 has a clock speed 20% higher implies that it is a much less conservative spec than XSX's GPU, and dramatically less conservative than XSS (1.56 GHz). This will increase the number of units produced that won't meet the spec.
Conversely, the XSX GPU is physically larger, and will therefore have a higher probability of defective CUs on the chip. While both PS5 and XSX have reundant CUs, this will still be a bigger issue for Xbox. This is compounded with the fact that each wafer is the same size, so you'll get fewer XSX SoCs per wafer intrinsically.
The exact cost of each strategy is unknown. But it's certainly not impossible that XSX could be yielding higher - it would imply that leakage on the chips is a more serious issue than defective CUs are.
I'm hoping Sony comes through with the direct preorders.
Thats what CU redundancies are for. Big Navi is rumored to have 80 CUs so 52 ain't that bad at all. But high clock GPU SKUs are sold at premium due to low yields/binning.
Lots and doom and gloom as expected, but it's worth keeping history in mind here. The PS2 had absolutely atrocious yields on the GPU and had to cut launch shipments for North American by half, from 1 million to 500,000. It still sold at $299 and went on to be the highest selling console of all time.
The PS3 likely had terrible yields for Cell as well. IBM once said that yields of 10-20% were considered good for a chip like Cell. But since 1 SPE was disabled to improve yields, the number for PS3 is probably something like 20-40%.
I've also read that the 360 had yields of only around 50% for the GPU.
The PS4 has very high yields, but that's not surprising given the conservative nature of the hardware.
PS5 yields being at around 50% but only dropping shipments from ~15 million to 11 million units (which is still an insane number for a launch window) don't represent a dire situation.
In other words, calm down.
The PS3 likely had terrible yields for Cell as well. IBM once said that yields of 10-20% were considered good for a chip like Cell. But since 1 SPE was disabled to improve yields, the number for PS3 is probably something like 20-40%.
I've also read that the 360 had yields of only around 50% for the GPU.
The PS4 has very high yields, but that's not surprising given the conservative nature of the hardware.
PS5 yields being at around 50% but only dropping shipments from ~15 million to 11 million units (which is still an insane number for a launch window) don't represent a dire situation.
In other words, calm down.
Are you thinking that they originally planned to clock the GPU slower, and then increased the speeds in response to the Xbox Series X specs?
the ps2 was also a dirt cheap dvd player though. about half of ps2s sold for that reason.
The point is that we might no ear about xbox yield issues because even if exists they might not affect its desired production.
yup there is a decent bit of evdence pointing to that efect. if they wanted a 10tfps system from the jump, they would have a higher cu count.
You don't create hype for your new console by admitting you're having issues manufacturing it.
Kind of funny. Weren't there rumors about yield issues for the Xbone whereas Jack Tretton came out before ps4 launch and said the yields were incredible. haha
still think its less a chips not working issue, and more they arent meeting crazy high clocks that sony is using.
Damn, my prediction could be right after all. That price would be killer.
I wouldn't think reducing the GPU clocks would be an option at this point. What would that do to all the games that are being developed around the 2.23GHz spec?
No game has been released yet so they could still change it. It would all come in hot but perhaps that's the case anyway.
It seems strange to see this price prediction in the same article that reports on the yield problems. What would be the point of selling the PS5 for $450 if you don't have the supply to meet demand at $500?
pretty much all the FUD we heard about the ps5 has come to be true. i remember hearing about hot ps5 earlier this year as well. i have stayed strong and dismissed everything as fud but the hits keep on coming.
at this point, im inclined to believe everything. lets not forget that this was sony's turn to mess things up after a successful gen. it happens to everyone. they were aiming for a $399 box, went for a cheaper and smaller SOC, had to call an audible and that increase in clocks ended up coming back to haunt them. i seriously cannot even fathom a 50% failure rate. this is going to be passed on to the consumers because there is no way sony is taking an extra $100 loss on top of the $100 loss they are most likely going to be taking.
this bizarre focus on ssd over tflops never sit right with me either. seriously, who is gonna use that ssd except for first party devs? was that really worth all this?
i guess we will find out tomorrow if the cost is too high, but now im in the $499-599 camp. best case scenario, we get sub $500 consoles but you cant just hide the losses from a 50% yield rate. that basically means their cheaper $100 chip is actually $200. effectively increasing the BOM by a $100. if sony eats that today, expect higher prices on first party games, and a higher ps+ sub.
They definitely would not. Either AMD or Sony are paying for those wafers. I'm not sure who eats the cost here, as we have no access to that info
I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment that being able to produce 11m units is 'struggling', but I agree with your post.
I dunno - when you see the word 'struggling', what images does it bring to mind?
Yeah apologies if it came across bad - I wasn't trying to take a swing at you. To me, struggling says "working hard but not succeeding" and if you thought there was $2B in revenue on the line, you'd be working pretty hard.
Why am I not surprised you're agreeing with the most negative takes yet again.
Even if Sony does have to reduce their capacity to only(lol) 11m through March , that's still higher than most other console launches and hardly something to be concerned about at this point.
Nothing Sony has done regarding the PS5 indicates that they're "messing things up." They're in a very strong position with considerable hype going into the launch.
Sony has also been designing their entire architecture, power delivery, and cooling for well over a year for high clock rates. That does not seem like a last minute type thing to me just a design choice with the added risk of lower yields which they knew and accepted.
Buy an Xbox.
You'll be happier with all the POWAH, and we'll all be happier without your scorching takes.
This just reaffirms my prediction that all consoles Xbox, PlayStation, Switch will be sold out this holiday.
All that discussion about one console needing an exclusive or something will be completely unfounded.
All that discussion about one console needing an exclusive or something will be completely unfounded.