Biggest analysis to date: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce impact on Earth

[Zen]

Eating is morally wrong????????????

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If you think about it, if everyone in just first world nations stopped eating anything but soylent or other all in one nutrition, the collective resource consumption needed to raise resource intensive crops like broccoli or raise livestock would drastically reduce. Morally, as people living in nations where nutrition isn't scarce, reducing any environmental food cost where we can is the correct thing to do.

 

[Jadentheman]

That's seriously outdated science. There's a subtype of LDL that doctors can test for directly expensively or for cheap by looking at HDL, LDL, triglycerides, waist size, age, and other metrics. Besides rare genetic factors, it's fairly straightforward: if you are obese, inactive, and eat large amounts of sugar and/or alcohol, and the other metrics line up, you are at high risk. You can do this without animal products. Eat lots of bread, sugar, drink booze, and you will be at high risk.

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A lot of people keep saying outdated science but never links the article and cross-sectional references supporting it

 

[bye]

75% of people probably haven't, thus my point. Remember that most people think of pizza hut when they think of pizza (at least Americans).

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ok, there's great brands of shredded vegan cheese for that too

 

[Deleted member 9986]

Individual action changes nothing. Limit the industries. Which will not happen because they hold capital and our system depends on it. Have nice day.

 

[Necron]

Meat I could live without... but a milk substitute is kind of hard. I found a good soy milk but it just doesn't taste the same with coffee. Nothing does so far. Sorry, earth.

 

[bye]

Individual action changes nothing. Limit the industries. Which will not happen because they hold capital and our system depends on it. Have nice day.

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you admit your argument makes no sense.

individual action is the only way to change the industries.

 

[Openrob]

No I'm pretty sure we need the protein from meat, we were put on this earth as carnivores, it's in our nature and how our bodies develop to suit that right? Also there are many plants we cannot consume as they are poisonous to us, meat does not poison and kill us as such.

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Could you eat one less meat based meal a week?

 

[bye]

Meat I could live without... but a milk substitute is kind of hard. I found a good soy milk but it just doesn't taste the same with coffee. Nothing does so far. Sorry, earth.

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theres several brands that fit every need

for cereal

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for coffee/drinks

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[Regulus Tera]

Lab grown meat is our only hope.

 

[DukeBlue]

Take that dirty meat eaters!!!

 

[HaNotsri]

Producing less humans should be no 1 on the list.
I've given up kids, will get rid of the meat in november.

 

[TyraZaurus]

Human beings are not biologically suited to be herbivores. This is a fact.

An all in vegan diet that compensates for the fact that we are biologically required to be omnivores and fulfills all the needs of nutrition is prohibitively expensive for most lower income families. This is also a fact, no matter what Vegan sites and blogs that try to sell you cookbooks say. And that's just in western society.

Combined with all the economic issues and the ridiculous expenses and further environmental costs that would go towards eliminating thousands of animals.

But sure, let's focus on preaching to people and studies that assume a magical scenario where all the cattle farming disappears in an instant instead of things like reforming the farming and meat industries and putting our efforts into building sustainable farming.

 

[Pwnz]

A lot of people keep saying outdated science but never links the article and cross-sectional references supporting it

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I didn't link any information because I thought this was common knowledge at this point. It's stuff I talked with my Doctor about years ago.

The burden of proof is on those claiming that dietary cholesterol causes heart disease. There was never any Scientific evidence for it. If you go down the rabbit hole of where this came from, it's from the Seven Countries Study in which Ancel Keys had dietary data from 21 countries and there wasn't any correlation, so he cherry picked 7 out of the data to make it appear as if there was correlation. That isn't Science in the slightest.

I say outdated because it really is outdated. First, dietary cholesterol has nothing to do with blood cholesterol. 7 countries study in the 50s/60s created this belief. It evolved into dietary fat causes heart disease, and Ancel himself abandoned that in the 70s/80s saying that olive oil was the best.

The less out of date understanding is that dietary saturated fat increases LDL which causes heart disease, but that's still not precise and that was debunked in the 90s/2000s solidly. The liver makes the blood cholesterol, and yes saturate fat can increase the amount of LDL and HDL your liver makes, but it says nothing about the types of LDL it creates. The subtype of LDL often referred as VLDL is a type of LDL that is made by the liver when you are obese or have fatty liver and it tends to get stuck in the endothelium of the arteries and build up plaque. I used to have an American Heart Association study PDF where it showed ~50% correlation between LDL and heart disease and 90+% with VLDL and heart disease but I can't find it. But if you google "VLDL and heart disease" this is the kind of stuff that shows up first.
https://medlineplus.gov/vldlcholesterol.html
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases.../expert-answers/vldl-cholesterol/faq-20058275

 

[iseta]

We now have a video about it from Kurzgesagt:


I mean, I see many people here saying "I could live without X but not without Z". Well great, then just stop eating X, it's something, it counts!
Meatless monday or just consciously reducing your meat intake in a meal is already a great step to having a more sustainable environment.

 

[SliceSabre]

Guess I won't be saving the environment then because I enjoy meat and dairy too much to ever give it up for a vegan diet.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Yeah, I can't do vegan. My body would turn to dust and fall apart without the protein I get from meat and dairy. I'm already way, way too skinny to make a large-scale change to my diet without debilitating health issues as an immediate result.

Doesn't help that the majority of non-dairy substitutes (and all non-meat substitutes) taste like garbage. I had a seitan steak once and couldn't make it more than two bites in before I had to send it back to the kitchen. Just disgusting.

 

[Thornquist]

Increasing tax om meat and dairy, while removing it on vegatables and vegan products would be a sensible start. Nothing changes overnight.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Seems like were just shifting the burden to individuals to solve widespread societal issues with the discussion here

 

[RedShift]

Human beings are not biologically suited to be herbivores. This is a fact.

An all in vegan diet that compensates for the fact that we are biologically required to be omnivores and fulfills all the needs of nutrition is prohibitively expensive for most lower income families. This is also a fact, no matter what Vegan sites and blogs that try to sell you cookbooks say. And that's just in western society.

Combined with all the economic issues and the ridiculous expenses and further environmental costs that would go towards eliminating thousands of animals.

But sure, let's focus on preaching to people and studies that assume a magical scenario where all the cattle farming disappears in an instant instead of things like reforming the farming and meat industries and putting our efforts into building sustainable farming.

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It's pretty annoying when people come into these threads and make ribbish claims like this without any evidence to be honest.

Outside of B12, which can be found in loads of common foods like cereals or just via cheap suppliments, humans do not need animal products to live a healthy life. The millions of people worldwide doing just that are the evidence for that, and every health organisation I've seen seems to agree with this.

As for price, it's hard to refute without knowing where exactly you live and knowing what the grocery situation there is, but in my experience plant based food is way cheaper than buying meat and dairy. Which would make sense given how inefficient and resource intensive animal agriculture is.

 

[Pomerlaw]

You don't need to stop completely to make a difference. You can reduce and already make an impact.

Start somewhere. Cut one red meat meal a week for a start!

 

[TyraZaurus]

It's pretty annoying when people come into these threads and make ribbish claims like this without any evidence to be honest.

Outside of B12, which can be found in loads of common foods like cereals or just via cheap suppliments, humans do not need animal products to live a healthy life. The millions of people worldwide doing just that are the evidence for that, and every health organisation I've seen seems to agree with this.

As for price, it's hard to refute without knowing where exactly you live and knowing what the grocery situation there is, but in my experience plant based food is way cheaper than buying meat and dairy. Which would make sense given how inefficient and resource intensive animal agriculture is.

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It's not just a matter of what can be picked up at the grocer. What about communities where a chain grocer or other store isn't in ready access? A lot of this talk comes down to the fact that people presume the western economic model is universal, but it's not. On top of that, in middle and low-income communities worldwide, 40 to 60 percent of agricultural GDP is livestock, and it provides a livelihood to at least 1 billion people. Again, this is lower income communities; who's gonna pay to help them re-purpose themselves? And what about areas of the world like drylands, like 60 percent of sub-Saharan Africa, where livestock is either the main or sometimes only use of the land?

Honestly, the problem isn't raising livestock, it's unregulated capitalism and unchecked ecological devastation worldwide. And studies like this still don't say where these large amounts of animals are supposed to go, the impact that large-scale extermination of them would have on the environment, or the fact that many of them now exist in places where they have no equivalent natural predators that exist in quantities large enough to affect their numbers.

 

[Toxi]

Y'know, I'm not totally sure I buy this. How the heck does more farmland for cows and pigs cause more environmental damage than all this pollution we're constantly throwing into the atmosphere and all the waste we're just dumping wherever?

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Because the cows and pigs account for a good amount of that pollution we're constantly throwing into the atmosphere and all the waste we're just dumping wherever.

 

[jett]

You'd be surprised how good vegan cheese has gotten. Here's a pizza made with miyoko vegan fresh mozz

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wtf is vegan cheese? Same thing as calling soy juice "milk", I guess.

 

[bye]

wtf is vegan cheese? Same thing as calling soy juice "milk", I guess.

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No actually it's the real deal. Miyoko uses cashew milk and adds live cultures, ages the cheeses for up to 6 months (how dairy cheese is made).

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Yeah, I can't do vegan. My body would turn to dust and fall apart without the protein I get from meat and dairy. I'm already way, way too skinny to make a large-scale change to my diet without debilitating health issues as an immediate result.

Doesn't help that the majority of non-dairy substitutes (and all non-meat substitutes) taste like garbage. I had a seitan steak once and couldn't make it more than two bites in before I had to send it back to the kitchen. Just disgusting.

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I'm super skinny as well but doing stuff like replacing butter and milk and chicken is super easy. The only vegan substitutes that I don't like are cheese and any beef or pork. Well actually some vegan mozzarella is ok but that's bc mozzerella is texture over flavor but most vegan cheese is either gross or tastes like nothing.

I've had seitan a few times bc my GF is vegan and I'm vegetarian and I don't like it at all except for Champs in Brooklyn. The texture is way too spongey.

 

[Menx64]

That's an dishonest post and you know it, Plum is CLEARLY talking about people like being smug when it comes to assholes like Trump as long as they don't have to change their own shitty habbits.

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That is not dishonest at all. You can not talk about climate change and just focus in one aspect of them. It is impossible to cut emissions to 100%. Eating meat is not causing climate change, but the mass reproduction of those animals is. We have to find a way to reduce the consumption of eat, but also the amount of farmable land. We need better and more productive ways to grow our food.

 

[Stanng243]

I wouldn't want to live without dairy or meat. I'm on the whole 30 diet, which is great because even though I have to give up dairy for 30 days, I can pile on the meat. This is one sacrifice I'll simply never make.

 

[Version 3.0]

I'm 100% in for worm meat. But I'll never give up meat.

 

[Deleted member 36054]

No actually it's the real deal. Miyoko uses cashew milk and adds live cultures, ages the cheeses for up to 6 months (how dairy cheese is made).

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Yeah, but how expensive is it??

 

[okayfrog]

I had a loco moco the other day with two impossible patties instead of regular patties and it was surprisingly good, much better than the last impossible burger I had. Only problem was the two patties added another $4 to the cost.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

No actually it's the real deal. Miyoko uses cashew milk and adds live cultures, ages the cheeses for up to 6 months (how dairy cheese is made).

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I'd give it a try but I can't imagine the flavor being anything but bland.

 

[DevilMayGuy]

Increasing tax om meat and dairy, while removing it on vegatables and vegan products would be a sensible start. Nothing changes overnight.

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Yeah, let's make it hurt even more for people in food deserts to eat. Not only will they not have access to good vegan meat substitutes, but they get the distinct pleasure of paying more for the limited ingredients they have access to.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Yeah, let's make it hurt even more for people in food deserts to eat. Not only will they not have access to good vegan meat substitutes, but they get the distinct pleasure of paying more for the limited ingredients they have access to.

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It's 2018, what place is someone living in America where you can't sustain a vegetarian diet??

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

It's 2018, what place is someone living in America where you can't sustain a vegetarian diet??

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More than you think. There are literally millions of people who the best chance at a grocery store is a gas station.

Food deserts are a real thing. Go look it up.

 

[DevilMayGuy]

It's 2018, what place is someone living in America where you can't sustain a vegetarian diet??

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Not sure that "it's [CURRENT YEAR]" does anything to get rid of the very real problem of food deserts. A simple google search answers your question.

But I guess I'll just let those people know that it's 2018, and that'll fix it right up.

 

[Tuorom]

Yeah, I can't do vegan. My body would turn to dust and fall apart without the protein I get from meat and dairy. I'm already way, way too skinny to make a large-scale change to my diet without debilitating health issues as an immediate result.
.

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You CAN get enough protein through other means. You CAN get enough calories to not become a skeleton. I don't understand how not getting protein would be the thing to turn you into dust. Sounds like you just don't eat enough of anything.

If you have a medical condition whereby acquiring the necessary nutrients without meat is difficult than that is another thing entirely.

 

[Uno Venova]

That's okay, the bageleggandcheese sandwich with sausages that I had this morning was too good to pass up.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

You CAN get enough protein through other means. You CAN get enough calories to not become a skeleton. I don't understand how not getting protein would be the thing to turn you into dust. Sounds like you just don't eat enough of anything.

If you have a medical condition whereby acquiring the necessary nutrients without meat is difficult than that is another thing entirely.

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I eat plenty, I just don't gain weight.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

More than you think. There are literally millions of people who the best chance at a grocery store is a gas station.

Food deserts are a real thing. Go look it up.

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Not sure that "it's [CURRENT YEAR]" does anything to get rid of the very real problem of food deserts. A simple google search answers your question.

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Literally the first link I clicked on says its impact is overstated.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/its-not-the-food-deserts-its-the-inequality/550793/

 

[DevilMayGuy]

Literally the first link I clicked on says its impact is overstated.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/its-not-the-food-deserts-its-the-inequality/550793/

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Well, I guess you solved it if the first link you clicked says it isn't a problem. Your Nobel Prize is in the mail.

 

[karnage10]

I went vegan for about a year and it was great - but the more i realised my allergies and how much they were affecting my quality of life, I fully dropped veganism.

But I'm in the 1% or less - people whose physical conditions prevent it. Everyone else - and many people on the planet already - live this way.

People in the West need to open their eyes.

(Re my diet: I feel terrible about it on pretty much a daily basis and most of my friends are vegan. But if i went vegan i'd literally have to eat potatoes, one specific brand of tofu, and one of a couple of fruits/vegetables, for every meal - thus struggling to get a balanced diet (not being able to eat nuts, mushrooms, gluten-based protein, many fruits and veg, etc).)

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AS a doctor i want to inform you that food alergies are more common than you think. In portugal around 23% children have at least 1 allergy to food. I don't remember how many of them are to "vegetables" but i'd assume at the very least 10-20 % of our children would be incapable of having a healthy vegan diet. While with adulthood allergy symptoms usualy decrease the fact is there is probably 10-15% of our population that can't survive on a vegan diet. That is just allergies, diseases such as IBS and IBD would push that number higher.
So you are not in the 1% that can't eat vegan, you are probably in 25-30% of the pop that can't be vegan.
Do note that this is in Portugal, in your country epidemiology data might show different figures.

 

[okayfrog]

Well, I guess you solved it if the first link you clicked says it isn't a problem. Your Nobel Prize is in the mail.

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You told the person to search. They searched. If you have a better article or better information that you think can sway them, it's probably best you provide that rather than telling them to educate themself.

 

[Tuorom]

I eat plenty, I just don't gain weight.

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Have you counted your calories before? Perhaps you are not eating as much as you think. Unless you are an exception to the laws of thermodynamics.

I know how it is. I have a tough time putting on weight without engorging myself to the point of it being uncomfortable.

 

[Jadentheman]

Are we seriously doing the "what about the poor" and "food desert" excuses again? Totally overblown

Once again starch staples are insanely cheap. And produce can be affordable if you look for it. Dry beans and lentils. Mere cents for lots of protein. Potatoes provide much of your daily nutrition alone.

There is also the option of starting a simple garden growing edible greens and herbs that don't need much maintenance or space.

Poor people need guidance not to let them wallow in their shit and justify damaging the planet and their future wellbeing for themselves and their children

 

[Astronut325]

Judging by this thread, most people aren't willing to make any lifestyle adjustments for the betterment of humanity. Yet, many progressives think that government needs to enact regulation that will go against the desires of the majority. The same applies to transportation. Not many want to change their lifestyle, but expect the government to enact legislation to help with greater humanity issues.

Cognitive dissonance AHOY!

 

[Amnixia]

That is not dishonest at all. You can not talk about climate change and just focus in one aspect of them. It is impossible to cut emissions to 100%. Eating meat is not causing climate change, but the mass reproduction of those animals is. We have to find a way to reduce the consumption of eat, but also the amount of farmable land. We need better and more productive ways to grow our food.

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So you framing Plums post as being apologetic to Trump (when it wasn't) isn't dishonest? Sure mate.

And I'm not sure how you can try to disconnect the amounts of meat and dairy the world consumes from the carbon emissions that are generated as a result.

That's like saying gun control isn't needed if people would just stop shooting each other.

Lab grown meat isn't "there" yet and a hypothetical future solution is not an excuse for sustaining the problem now.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Literally the first link I clicked on says its impact is overstated.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/its-not-the-food-deserts-its-the-inequality/550793/

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There's a few assumptions there that I've had reiterated on me as something people overlook.

For example, the article states that something like 55% of all poor households fit the food desert criteria. That means that 55% of these people have to work harder to get to the grocery store to even buy food than other, better off people. The article states around 2 miles and most don't have a car. If you have to walk 4 miles to get to the grocery store and carry everything back, what do you think makes the most sense to buy? A bunch of fruits and veggies that last about a week that cost more, or a bunch of boxed shit that's gonna last so you don't have to truck your ass back down the road to get more kale in a few days.

Mix that with the time taken to prepare food that most poor people don't have when working 3 jobs and there's literally a huge opportunity cost that comes from buying fresh anything.

I believe the study insomuch that class has much to do with diet, but there's a lot of stuff that comes with being poor rather than, 'they just don't know better'. Access, education, and time are huge hurdles that can't be handwaved away easily.

 

[Uno Venova]

"Just start and maintain a garden"

Lmfao

 

[Pet]

Oh god but I LOVE my cheese and pork and ice cream ;__;.

Fun fact - in Taiwan, pork is so ubiquitous that, unless otherwise specified, any meat dish is assumed to be pork. So, if you want pork and chives dumplings, you just order chive dumplings. If you want pork chops, you just ask for chops.

Now, if you want chicken or beef or fish, you have to say "chicken and chives dumplings" or "fishcake." Otherwise, pork.

 

[Menx64]

So you framing Plums post as being apologetic to Trump (when it wasn't) isn't dishonest? Sure mate.

And I'm not sure how you can try to disconnect the amounts of meat and dairy the world consumes from the carbon emissions that are generated as a result.

That's like saying gun control isn't needed if people would just stop shooting each other.

Lab grown meat isn't "there" yet and a hypothetical future solution is not an excuse for sustaining the problem now.

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I am not trying to be apologetic for anyone. I am just stating that you can care about Climate change and eat meat. There are many ways to mitigate climate change. In an ideal world, we would all stop eating meat, but that is not likely happening anytime soon. So when we look at things realistically, we can all do our share. I have a solar generator at home, since in my country I can sell the excess to the national grid. I dont eat much meat if any, but I do consume milk and cheese. I know I have a carbon footprint, but then I can work my way to make sure I dont have a negative carbon footprint.
Calling someone for eating meat a fake climate change fighter is a narrowed minded as it gets.