Biden increases tariffs on Chinese made EV's, solar panels, and semiconductors
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
As a european, I understand that the president of the united states wants to protect the companies IN the united states... China does the same and are even worse, they didnt even allow foreign company to build any car factories in china.
Europe will soon also start adding tariffs for Chinese cars.
Ehh will see about that.
Europe is full of incompetent people, so i'm expecting some disaster class.
Doesn't China produce most of the parts for and some of our solar panels?
Yet it hurts American consumers.
Yet it hurts American consumers.
Would US and China consider letting China build electric car factories in US and sell those cars here?
Broke: Hopping the border for affordable health care
Woke: Hopping the border to buy an affordable electric car
green energy should be as cheap as possible, I really don't care if China "dominates" these things, Joe.
Europe is already a disaster. Take for instance the Netherlands where I live. they fucked up so bad that we now HAVE TO PAY for the energy we return back to the grid from our solar panels because the infrastructure of the netherlands cant handle the electricity growth... So now, we are all just turning on equipment and running things non stop so we dont have to pay for the electricity which we dont use.
yup that is true.
Byd is already building factories in europe to combat the tariffs.
Find it interesting all these people using Free Market/Capitalism and China in the same sentence.
America is a spreadsheet and service economy now, not an industrial one. We have to get our steel and shit from China no matter what.
The problem is the outcomes of our protectionist policies have not been in favor of consumers. Things have only gotten more expensive and unaffordable, especially cars.
It's not that interesting. The one who claims to be the "free market" is not a free market.
Regardless, it's going to hurt us as consumers the most.
I thought even US-made solar panels largely depend on Chinese-made solar cells, so that kind of sucks for solar adoption.
guessing you weren't around when china was happy offer cheap 5G dominance?
Both.
Corporations don't have to make massive profits and when they do, they don't have to keep them they can give them to workers.
I mean, China heavily subsidizes its solar panel, companies making it difficult for other businesses to compete so ya.
Free market, like speech, doesn't mean free from consequences.
We actually buy very little steel from China. The majority of our imported steel is from Canada and Mexico.
Those are most likely manufactured in Taiwan by TSMC and then assembled in China by another company so they won't be a part of this.
China isn't even a top 5 provider of steel to the US.
Yet congress can't spend 4 billion dollars to replace all the chinese parts 4 years later.
4 years ago, FCC and congress banned Huawei and ZTE networking equipment
4 years ago, FCC and congress banned the use of Huawei and ZTE networking equipment due to national and economic security. Let's see how it's been working out. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/us-plan-to-purge-huawei-from-telecom-networks-stalled-by-funding-shortfall/ Apparently...
www.resetera.com
Well, "both" is not going to happen.
Ford, for instance, loses 60k per EV they make; GM only hopes to make margin by next year; China has zero worker protections and uses slave labor; Tesla isn't unionized - so not really sure what sort of setup you're referring to where "both" works out.
Hard for other manufacturers to start up if they are competing against heavily subsidized state companies.
Personally, the West should've instituted massive tariffs on Chinese products around, oh, the middle of the year 1989.
Probably too late now.
Probably too late now.
Well we don't even have cheap goods anymore, so obviously the latter.
Yeah. I agree that worker protections are more important. The comments on this Ars Technica piece get down into the weeds of issues about what is protectionism, what is anti-dumping measures, and so forth. China massively subsidizing its industries far beyond what the U.S. does, in order to dump things such as solar panels, electric vehicles, and semiconductors in other markets, is something that can cost a lot of jobs.
Doesn't it lose that much because it's changing how its factories make cars because it's not the same process?
I want worker protections at Tesla as well.
Why can't the US massively invest in car companies, to bring down prices, like China does?
Sure but the ones feeling the consequences are the consumers. I'd imagine folks would want a cheap EV.
The only problem with this measure, is that we really should do something about climate change, and this isn't going to help...
You're forgetting American workers in this equation. Biden isn't. Obviously this is a ploy to attract certain voters who might be on the fence. But it's not unjustified.
This really does nothing to deter buying from China, tariffs in large part only raise our prices as most manufacturers have no alternative to China. My old company for example had every single item we used in our factory using Chinese part, and we still had to get stuff from China as it was the only source for some things, or still cheapest source. Instead it doubled the price on every item we made.
Putting these tariffs does nothing but line their pockets with tariff money as we all pay higher prices, and most simply aren't going to "buy American", because our manufacturing sucks. And American sources aren't gonna pop up overnight, and in the cases you can buy from an American company, its still usually cheaper to buy overseas somewhere else.
Even with growing American industries, most of them are years away from being able to handle capacity of what is needed. So again, companies are just raising prices and still buying Chinese or going elsewhere.
Putting these tariffs does nothing but line their pockets with tariff money as we all pay higher prices, and most simply aren't going to "buy American", because our manufacturing sucks. And American sources aren't gonna pop up overnight, and in the cases you can buy from an American company, its still usually cheaper to buy overseas somewhere else.
Even with growing American industries, most of them are years away from being able to handle capacity of what is needed. So again, companies are just raising prices and still buying Chinese or going elsewhere.
I'm not forgetting them. The same American workers would likely want cheap EVs.
We did that in 2008, and have been doing this with Tesla for years, and look where those companies are now. If your policy is going to result in executives lining their own pockets it looks a hell of a lot better to do it as indirectly as possible. And obviously anything like that requires Congress while tariffs can be done by the executive branch
The funny thing is we do invest quite a bit, though probably not as much as China. Obama literally bailed out the entire industry.
It's just none of our massive subsidies result in better/cheaper products for some reason.
Sure. They want both.
Put stipulations on the money being used to lower prices. Nationalize it for all I care.
How can China and other countries reduce prices by heavily subsidizing things but the U.S. never can for some reason?
