It isn't, requires more votes than we have, but it can be neutered. Hopefully that's where things end up, was looking to be headed that way.Ice didn't even exist20 years ago
It should be easy to get rid of
Agreed.honestly i'm ok with open borders for the united states, but i do think other countries should be much stricter about letting united states citizens into their borders. i suppose i'm a man of contrasts like that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The guidelines reads like someone who's still blinded by the nostalgia of meeting in the middle and the notion we can get things back to the way they used to be. Maybe if we weren't this far gone, these policy changes would make sense. But the US is way too broken for this to improve things much, if at all.
Just neuter and dissolve the agency and be done with it.
honestly i'm ok with open borders for the united states, but i do think other countries should be much stricter about letting united states citizens into their borders. i suppose i'm a man of contrasts like that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So you can create them but not get rid of them? Makes sense.I believe no one person, president or not, can get rid of a federal agency.
Here's hoping after a few media stories of ICE definitely not following the spirit of the guidelines the hammer is dropped. Wish it didn't come to that.You don't have to be much of a genius to figure out how this will go.
Everyone they pick up will be labelled a gang member, a terrorist or a criminal and deported accordingly. The discretion will be anything but.
ICE wasn't created by the presidency.
extremely dumb opinions like this one shouldn't be taken seriously.
Personally I wasn't, I was a bit hopeful when he basically neutered them with an EO, though.I dont think Biden has ever said he wanted to abolish ICE. Why were people expecting that?
actually extremely good opinions like that should be the only thing anyone takes seriously.
The President can't impose heavier guidelines than those of today or name new heads to DHS and ICE, even in an acting capacity?. Mashing X for big fucking doubt there, you're either talking about something different than I am, or you're feeding me some shit.No. Presidency doesn't have that power really and without paperwork which this mandated as part of arrests there exists no current mechanism to track who should be fired to clean house so any agent could claim they were fired for political reasons and claim back wages from the government along with reinstatement to their job.
Because people want better things?I dont think Biden has ever said he wanted to abolish ICE. Why were people expecting that?
You are aware there is an option abolish DHS and not go back to the INS days, right? It's not an either or scenario.So people here are ok with going back to the old INS? Because the INS used to perform deportations and immigration enforcement as well.
You two seem to be talking about different things. They're basically pointing out that Biden can't actually fire civil servants without cause, and because ICE guidelines lacked detailed paperwork, it's impossible to find cause for current employees. What you're saying is what Biden's initial EO would have done: fundamentally make ICE employees unable to do anything. They'd still take a paycheck and couldn't be fired, so not ideal, but preferrable.The President can't impose heavier guidelines than those of today or name new heads to DHS and ICE, even in an acting capacity?. Mashing X for big fucking doubt there, you're either talking about something different than I am, or you're feeding me some shit.
The President can't impose heavier guidelines than those of today or name new heads to DHS and ICE, even in an acting capacity?. Mashing X for big fucking doubt there, you're either talking about something different than I am, or you're feeding me some shit.
I really don't see your point?
I dont think Biden has ever said he wanted to abolish ICE. Why were people expecting that?
The President can't impose heavier guidelines than those of today or name new heads to DHS and ICE, even in an acting capacity?. Mashing X for big fucking doubt there, you're either talking about something different than I am, or you're feeding me some shit.
We expect better from the Biden administration, and believe that the next 90 days will continue to reaffirm the need to force ICE to downscale its operations, including by ending ICE programs that tap state and local law enforcement for immigration enforcement such as the 287(g) program and the use of ICE detainers. And we will demand accountability for the unjust arrests and deportations that ICE officers and their local partners will inflict on immigrant communities until DHS further reforms.
What the fuck? No I'm gonna go with ACLU on this oneIts not weird. The new guidelines do in fact put heavy restrictions. The issue is for some people they wont accept anything but a total open border so there is no progress
You are aware there is an option abolish DHS and not go back to the INS days, right? It's not an either or scenario.
You two seem to be talking about different things. They're basically pointing out that Biden can't actually fire civil servants without cause, and because ICE guidelines lacked detailed paperwork, it's impossible to find cause for current employees. What you're saying is what Biden's initial EO would have done: fundamentally make ICE employees unable to do anything. They'd still take a paycheck and couldn't be fired, so not ideal, but preferrable.
I am indeed talking about top-down, the leadership who are explicitly political appointees and carry out his mandate for their given agency. If individual agents being paid to sit at their desks is on the table, that'd also be worlds better than what they're currently doing.nope unless your saying you don't want the executive to track those immigrants who have been guilty of violent crime
The pre-approval process allows tracking supervisors and FOs who are not adhering.
otherwise, there's no way to track and justifiably fire as permanent employees can't be fired without explicit proof of misconduct or poor performance.
this forces review and eventually the rotten elements are rooted out and it's fair. It's basically abolishing the current ice as is by giving them their own noose to tighten.
I dont think Biden has ever said he wanted to abolish ICE. Why were people expecting that?
I agree. Let the FBI take the violent crimes angle like they used to, at least it wouldn't be done by people that specifically sign up to hunt down brown people.I am indeed talking about top-down, the leadership who are explicitly political appointees and carry out his mandate for their given agency. If individual agents being paid to sit at their desks is on the table, that'd also be worlds better than what they're currently doing.
personally, i don't think you should call yourself delusional and stupid just because i proved you wrong. it's not good to talk bad about yourself, like i'm not trying to be all "have you tried yoga and the power of positive thinking??", but speaking about yourself more positively can help you feel better about yourself.
You don't have to be a genius, but you do have to not be an old dude stuck in his old ways. Biden is one of those Democrats who seems to think that post-Katrina American politics is the same as pre-Katrina. Their mentalities aren't tuned toward the drastic motions that are actually needed to rectify things and they think they think they know better because things worked when they did it that way the last time.You don't have to be much of a genius to figure out how this will go.
Everyone they pick up will be labelled a gang member, a terrorist or a criminal and deported accordingly. The discretion will be anything but.
Note in that scenario since the charter for ICE is in immigration enforcement choosing not to sit could not be explicitly punished and thus they could act complete counter to what the appointed director wants and not get fired.I am indeed talking about top-down, the leadership who are explicitly political appointees and carry out his mandate for their given agency. If individual agents being paid to sit at their desks is on the table, that'd also be worlds better than what they're currently doing.
Depends on how those court cases for the EO go (are they even ongoing with this guideline change?), but considering the court packing, outlook doesn't look great, yeah.Note in that scenario since the charter for ICE is in immigration enforcement choosing not to sit could not be explicitly punished and thus they could act complete counter to what the appointed director wants and not get fired.
LOL. You use that word, but you don't seem to know what it means. Go ahead, post a stupid retort because you sure as hell can't justify your own opinions.
Again, if gutting it top to bottom isn't immediately achievable, the entirety of ICE thrown into disarray, disaffection, and paralysis is infinitely preferable to this. And given how they bristle at the slightest thing like police departments the nation over, they're liable to protest in ways that further estrange them from the rest of us.Note in that scenario since the charter for ICE is in immigration enforcement choosing not to sit could not be explicitly punished and thus they could act complete counter to what the appointed director wants and not get fired.
Sums it up
Liberals are already done with the facade, as they go back to being 2000-era neocons. There will be no progression under the GOP and Dems.
The failure now is 100% the liberals and all those that keep making excuses for them. Biden literally already a liar, and America continues to accelerate toward destruction. And yes of course the Biden fans will continue to defend regressive policy.
Sums it up
Liberals are already done with the facade, as they go back to being 2000-era neocons. There will be no progression under the GOP and Dems.
The failure now is 100% the liberals and all those that keep making excuses for them. Biden literally already a liar, and America continues to accelerate toward destruction. And yes of course the Biden fans will continue to defend regressive policy.
Again, if gutting it top to bottom isn't immediately achievable, the entirety of ICE thrown into disarray, disaffection, and paralysis is infinitely preferable to this. And given how they bristle at the slightest thing like police departments the nation over, they're liable to protest in ways that further estrange them from the rest of us.
This is such bullshit strawman from wannabe extreme leftists I guess you'd call them?
Biden is not and never has been liberal. I havent seen any of these so called liberals as defined by leftists stop complaining about ice and stating ice should be abolished.
Like just because someone posta or tweet about other shit for once instead of all being anti trump all the time they need a break. It's been non stop 4 years constant stream of bullshit, not to mention a year long pandemic now. Biden isn't even 2 months into his admin and we have performative bullshit about how liberals are done with the facade.
Biden also cannot just abolish ice on his own. Nor can liberals just make him do it.
Liberals are already done with the facade, as they go back to being 2000-era neocons. There will be no progression under the GOP and Dems.
The failure now is 100% the liberals and all those that keep making excuses for them. Biden literally already a liar, and America continues to accelerate toward destruction. And yes of course the Biden fans will continue to defend regressive policy.
anyway maybe you should stream bree runway's hit single atm, featuring missy elliot, and it'll get you feeling yourself a little more?
Way I see it, you're the one that started things off by calling tfritz an idiot instead of actually, you know, engaging and finding out the why they think open borders are actually not the worst thing.life, in general, must a chore because you clearly seem to incapable of forming a rational chain of thought. Anyway if you can't stay on topic, I suggest not muck up this thread.
Your "witty" comebacks are not adding to anything.
just tired of people acting like A) biden can do whatever he wants as king B) liberals control everything from tweeting. C) these people that post that stuff, especially the andy throwing woody out meme act like they are so much more woke and smarter than everyone else. Its tiresome and stupid. We're all on the same team and largely all want the same goals.kinda seems like you're a little heated about something else, tbh.
Look, I agree that Biden isn't exactly a crusader, but he legitimately can't just stop ICE from operating. I wish he could, but what I really wish is that we could be a united fucking party and be able to just legislate ICE into oblivion as the system was intended to work.tbh i don't think the issue here is that biden just can't figure out a work around to abolish ice
ICE apparently isn't going listen to any directive from the White House, which was the reason for my suggestion.Biden could just do what the ACLU is dinging him for not doing in their response;
1. Limit 287(g) programs where state and local authorities act as immigration enforcers (Biden has pledged to do this
2. Limit the use of ICE detainers, ie keeping people in jail longer so you can deport them.
Instead he's giving out guidelines that ICE needs to go after people who threatened "national security or public safety" and I'm sorry if you haven't figured out by now ICE is just going to go after everyone and say they're a threat to national security or public safety anyway I have a bridge to sell you.
Way I see it, you're the one that started things off by calling tfritz an idiot instead of actually, you know, engaging and finding out the why they think open borders are actually not the worst thing.
just tired of people acting like A) biden can do whatever he wants as king B) liberals control everything from tweeting. C) these people that post that stuff, especially the andy throwing woody out meme act like they are so much more woke and smarter than everyone else. Its tiresome and stupid. We're all on the same team and largely all want the same goals.