It's even easier to feign caring about lgbt people with moral grandstanding while only hurting people locally. This sanction mentality is western centric and harmfulThe lives of LGBT people are at risk every day. It's even easier to ignore that from 1000km away.
It's not true of Turkey. Turkey isn't perfect, but it shouldn't be grouped alongside Pakistan and the Middle East in this subject. For one thing homosexuality and transsexuality is not illegal.I work in PR in Pakistan.
If a single brand or business does open support of trans or LGBT rights, they'll have a fatwa declared on them. The same is for the middle east, turkey and Russia.
It's not true of Turkey. Turkey isn't perfect, but it shouldn't be grouped alongside Pakistan and the Middle East in this subject. For one thing homosexuality and transsexuality is not illegal.
Also homosexual and trans celebrities and fictional characters appear in mainstream media without a fuss.
This!I know the situation isn't simple, and people are at risk, but people are ALREADY at risk. More companies should be supporting, not less.
"Yeah, it's easier to have the LGBT population try to change things by themselves without any help from us", is all I'm reading here. I guess there are easier things to support...
And especially this!The lives of LGBT people are at risk every day. It's even easier to ignore that from 1000km away.
It's even easier to feign caring about lgbt people with moral grandstanding while only hurting people locally. This sanction mentality is western centric and harmful
Let's fuck everyone who lives in these countries then? Jeez, that's not a great idea.So why don't they just not have a business in those countries. Simple.
Are you even comparing the two? Holiday wishes to showing solidarity with people who are executed in some countries? Who have to hide who theyare? And if you think no showing solidarity with LGBTQ people is "culture and religious values" -Well then, I think you need to rethink ho you view your religion or culture. This post is 100% disgusting.Middle East is a big games market.
Just because they choose to respect culture and religious values doesn't meant they shouldn't operate there.
Muslims didn't make a fuss when GameStop or Amazon didn't wish Muslims an Eid Mubarak the way they wish Christmas, Easter etc to their Christian customers. Just accept that all cultures don't necessarily have to abide by a blanket policy and move on.
If you're using your platform to stand against oppression of LGBT people, do it everywhere, but especially in countries that imprison torture and kill their LGBT community. Or don't do it at all.
I work in PR in Pakistan.
If a single brand or business does open support of trans or LGBT rights, they'll have a fatwa declared on them. The same is for the middle east, turkey and Russia.
As bad as it is, these companies have to abide by religious and cultural laws too. Hence why the esrb and pegi exist. If Bethesda or any other brand forced their ME branch to change to the rainbow, you'd have people in that country boycott the brand.
In Pakistan we still treat trans people like crap, and the same goes for a lot of middle east countries where gay people are thrown in prison or beaten. Bethesda ME waiving a rainbow flag will only cause unnecessary trouble and they'll roll it back in a matter of hours.
From public pressure when the religious parties put a fatwa for their heads.
I know it sucks but no brand can force their regional offices to abide by blanket terms, especially something like the rainbow flag in countries where it's a literal death sentence to belong to any letter in the LGBT alphabet.
It seems you have ignored every post above about the risks of doing it. Not just corporations but even NGOs who do actual work will have to be very careful in such countries skirting regulations and stuff. Just because you're sitting in an armchair thinking people can just do it everywhere doesn't mean so.
Oh, I love western smugness, as if it's all peachy for queer people in the West?Man, when will these countries join the rest of us in the 21st century?
It was not by having corporations change their profile pic on Twitter, I'll tell that much.Yes, because ignoring the problem is the better option. How do you think gay rights changed in other countries? By magic?
Imagine wanting to literally murder people for being attracted to people of the same sex or for supporting those people.
Man, when will these countries join the rest of us in the 21st century?
Like America, where people are being murdered for being black, or UK where... well just look at the Eton boys running the country like its a bad ketamine trip.
What a messy statement to make this day and age.
Oh, I love western smugness, as if it's all peachy for queer people in the West?
Maybe don't rank the era countries belong to - I think the west tried to help countries move on to whatever century they thought they should be in quite enough, don't you think? You can criticize these countries without coming off so smug.
Like America, where people are being murdered for being black, or UK where... well just look at the Eton boys running the country like its a bad ketamine trip.
What a messy statement to make this day and age.
Oh, America is completely fucked up in many ways too. I'm neither American nor Middle Eastern though, I'm Swedish. So I'm viewing these things from a Swedish perspective, and I'm pretty horrified by all of it.
I really disagree whether European states are really that "21st century" as they should/could be. This imagining of Europe of a standard bearer is so problematic and led to so much racism as is.
We're certainly not perfect, all countries have issues. But the Nordic countries in particular are at the forefront in many ways when it comes to human rights and being modern and progressive in general.
That does not mean you can employ "us vs them" didactic. I am coming from Ireland where people tend to say "we are not as racist" - but what does that mean? It's still on the spectrum. We are not as homophobic as let's say Pakistan but it doesn't mean we are not homophobic full stop. And that washing hands away from problems of your immediate community is used en masse to excuse racism/homo/transphobia or gaslight its victims because "we are not that bad, look over there".
Arguing that these countries need to join "21st century" paints a picture of white countries as more "civilised" or "advanced", which is absolute bs.
Its a different risk being declared a member of lgbt in america then a member of lgbt in saudi arabia. If those companies have to/want to work there they have rules to follow. I doubt anyone in leadership is going to risk the life of employees in such a state where they can be punished harshly.The lives of LGBT people are at risk every day. It's even easier to ignore that from 1000km away.
You do know how PR works, right? I hope you don't seriously believe every corporation that claims they support what they support.
Its easy to be a internet warrior from 1000km away. You can read up what some people have written who live in those countries. Basically you are risking the life of people who work for those companies.
I know the hypocrisy behind it, that's why it's shit and should be called out. If you're not going to support LGBT rights where they need the support the most, then you're not much of an ally (and before anyone knee-jerk posts that of course they're not an ally, it's a company doing it for easy goodwill points, that's kinda the point of this thread. See top of this post.)
HahahaAm I the only one who came into this thread expecting an assless chaps armor set?
It could. Honestly, people criticizing this hasn't thought this through. If they were to openly support gay rights in the middle East, they would simply lose presence in the region and possibly have their products banned there. In which case the vacuum might be filled by some company that does not support gay rights at all.
The world is compromise, and change takes time. If you push to hard, you'd just be outright rejected by the region, and you'll be further from any sort of LGBT acceptance. Some people will simply not admit that they world is complicated and grey.
I'm sorry for coming off as condescending, but you do have a valid point. The main thing I was pointing out is that corporations aren't anyone's friends; they're motivated purely by their financial well-being and will act accordingly no matter where or when.No, I am not knocked for six by this brand-new revelation, but it deserves to be criticised for the pink-washing it is rather than tacitly accepted.
I don't see what this smug cynicism of "ha, these naive people don't know how the world really works" is supposed to achieve? I know the hypocrisy behind it, that's why it's shit and should be called out.
Precisely. Wasn't that difficult to imagine either.I work in PR in Pakistan.
If a single brand or business does open support of trans or LGBT rights, they'll have a fatwa declared on them. The same is for the middle east, turkey and Russia.
As bad as it is, these companies have to abide by religious and cultural laws too. Hence why the esrb and pegi exist. If Bethesda or any other brand forced their ME branch to change to the rainbow, you'd have people in that country boycott the brand.
In Pakistan we still treat trans people like crap, and the same goes for a lot of middle east countries where gay people are thrown in prison or beaten. Bethesda ME waiving a rainbow flag will only cause unnecessary trouble and they'll roll it back in a matter of hours.
From public pressure when the religious parties put a fatwa for their heads.
I know it sucks but no brand can force their regional offices to abide by blanket terms, especially something like the rainbow flag in countries where it's a literal death sentence to belong to any letter in the LGBT alphabet.
Don't know what OP's point is, honestly. The situation there is more than well known, it has very little to do with bethesda being willing to change a picture or not. Doing it might put people's life at risk, not just the company's dividends.
That's just selfish, i live in North Africa and having one of many people's favorite hobby getting taken away like that would be
really sad. I agree that some arab countries have ridiculous laws, but that doesnt mean that every company should leave those markets.
I don't really think this thread is all that fair and takes no account of how different things are in those regions.
Didn't think we'd see a "Won't someone please think of the gamers missing out on fun" argument. Maybe those gamers should focus their ire on why their government is stopping them from playing a game because of a company Twitter icon. How could you possibly rank the fun they'd get from playing a certain video game as more important than acknowledging LGBT people exist?
Yeah
We should have all games from stop being sold from the US considering how fucking terrible the government is in handling plenty of matters as we speak tbh
YeahHow could you possibly rank the fun they'd get from playing a certain video game as more important than acknowledging LGBT people exist?