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Oct 25, 2017
8,282
Ignore misogyny? Don't straw man me, mate.

I reject Cenk Uygur's misogynistic remarks and jokes. They were and are unacceptable. But I also think being a corporate Democrat is unacceptable. Because that bribery and corruption contributes to minority injustice and abject poverty of American education, health, and economic prosperity.

Uygur is a Democrat who owns a large corporation who just engaged in something that looks like a quid pro quo endorsement. He is currently leveraging his power to run in a district he does not even live in, welding his own money and power like a cudgel to vault himself into an elected office. He is doing this to push out the local woman who is running to replace a woman who was pushed out of office by a heinous revenge-porn attack.
 

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
I thought TYT were pretty much over after the last election... hadn't really heard Cenk come up since 2016 really. Talk guys like him who've said the things he's said should know better than run for public office.

I'm not a fan of his, but this whole thing seems more like some right-wing way to get the left to eat there own again.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I had to brush myself up on the story but it's just crass and lame behavior on the part of the men's team. A spreadsheet list of women, including highschool seniors interested in the school, description of their bodies and ideal sex positions? Why? It's bizarre behavior, is the men's team 11 years old? On top of that the setting is college sports- sexually entitled athletes in an environment where sexual violence is common.

You can have mature sexual conversations with your boys but this shit was creepy and lame. I think some mens teams even continued doing the spreadsheets after the big controversy. Once that shit leaked I'm sure it was traumatic for some of the women too. It's fuckboi behavior.
This post about sums it up:

I agree with this. I think he's definity wromg on this issue and is being myopic . Because men fantasize about women doesn't mean that formalizing it into a Google document isn't different. I think it is. It lacks self reflection and as said above promotes objectification of those individuals, which can lead to a rape culture, toxic environment, etc. There's a certain intuition about something feeling off, and I think sometimes that intuition is useful.

To me the bigger question is... Can someone be a feminist, and a champion of women's rights (as he described himself), and still be wrong about this specific case? I think the answer is yes. Humans are complex and a work in progress. And of course there has to be a threshold that makes one fall one way or another. We're not always going to get every case right. cenks frankness to say what he thinks even when he may be wrong or it may be controversial is a double edged sword, in this case his willingness to share his flawed conclusion hurts him. And for people who are not super familiar with him, it's impossible for them to make s complete, nuanced assessment of the individual. There's simply not enough time and bandwidth to evaluate the whole picture, and thus the crude, wrong opinions are what's more visible and you will get judged by. And that's fair really... It's not and others to have to give anyone the benefit of the doubt and do hours of research into someone else's life to get a complete, nuanced picture. It's just not how the world works.

It's actually interesting how much baggage does matter. At some point there's just too much of it that it overwhelms everything else.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
Still not smears when not only are they his own words but he doubled down on his misogyy when asked for comment.

And same goes for his denial of the Armenian genocide. Yes, yes, were all aware he supposedly apologized for that. But actions speak louder than words and despite supposedly apologizing he's still palling around with groups that deny the Armenian genocide, so what does that say?

See:

The issue is that this is being treated like concrete proof when I don't know that it is? The only link Cenk has with that group is that he put out a video in around 2012. There's even a claim that Cenk's in a picture that I can't see him in. If I'm missing something here then I'd love to be proven wrong on it, but I've already asked and got no response.

This is on top of people claiming this makes him unworthy of congress. People who also have no issue support candidates who actively deny Israeli war crimes and support their oppression of Palestine, or that support the Saudi alliance, or support, participate and deny horrific American intervention/coups. Like, unless you think Cenk's going to use this tiny seat to enable mass support of Erdoğan in congress I can't comprehend how you can make such a big deal of that whilst supporting other mainstream candidates who do worse?

Outside of that he's clearly has a problem with toxic masculinity and despite apologising for the worst things that he's said he made them at an age where he clearly should have known better. Though at the same time the people going in hardest on him really want you to look past the racism and misogyny in candidates running for president.

I think Bernie endorsing him was dumb, but the loudest voices here tend to defend much dumber decisions from other candidates.
 
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Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Uygur is still defending his past, with regards to the LA Times reporting about Uygur's statements about the 2016 Harvard men's soccer team, he told HuffPost his statements was "out-of-context":


Uygur seemed to worsen the problem in comments to the Los Angeles Times that sounded like he was justifying one of his sexist remarks. The newspaper revealed that in one episode of his show, Uygur had said the 2016 Harvard men's soccer team was "not guilty" of assembling ratings of women's looks that later surfaced publicly. Because the students had made the rankings privately and they emerged only afterward, he reasoned, it was not his role to "police what their private comments were."

In an interview with HuffPost on Friday, Uygur clarified that he had not meant to sound like he was approving of what they did, merely that, had the rankings remained private, they would not be the subject of public concern.

"If you just take three clips out of the 40,000 videos, it doesn't offer the full context. The overwhelming majority of this show is dedicated to fighting for progressive priorities," he said. "If we go and play this game of trying to nitpick every out-of-context quote, there's no end to it."
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I thought TYT were pretty much over after the last election... hadn't really heard Cenk come up since 2016 really. Talk guys like him who've said the things he's said should know better than run for public office.

I'm not a fan of his, but this whole thing seems more like some right-wing way to get the left to eat there own again.

I haven't watched tyt in a while but I'm sure they're still up there in popularity when it comes to news online.

On the eating Itself thing... It's not that simple. For one, Cenk himself is being and has always been extremely aggressive to the left (from the left). He's directly calling out his opponent as being corrupt or beholden to donors due to taken big donations. Whether you think he's right or wrong, he's still indisputably attacking. Does that count as the left eating Itself?

On the case of this attacks on his character. It's a mix, was it in part dug up by right wingers seeking to damage him? Yes, but that doesn't make it not real or a real issue.

I'm personally fine with candidates in primaries attacking each other. The alternative is worse. It's giving a pass to shitty behavior and shitty policies. The only thing candidates have to make clear is at the end of the day any Democrat is better than the Republican alternative
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
11,225
TYT ain't shit big surprise

Wild how they go all in on neoliberalism being the great evil and they're all capitalists iirc
I definitely remember Cenk Uygur saying "I'm a capitalist" before which makes his "money out of politics" motto asinine, it's a complete lack of understanding what politics are mainly about (controlling/regulating the economy and validating wealth inequality via law).
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,886
I haven't watched tyt in a while but I'm sure they're still up there in popularity when it comes to news online.

On the eating Itself thing... It's not that simple. For one, Cenk himself is being and has always been extremely aggressive to the left (from the left). He's directly calling out his opponent as being corrupt or beholden to donors due to taken big donations. Whether you think he's right or wrong, he's still indisputably attacking. Does that count as the left eating Itself?

On the case of this attacks on his character. It's a mix, was it in part dug up by right wingers seeking to damage him? Yes, but that doesn't make it not real or a real issue.

I'm personally fine with candidates in primaries attacking each other. The alternative is worse. It's giving a pass to shitty behavior and shitty policies. The only thing candidates have to make clear is at the end of the day any Democrat is better than the Republican alternative
It wasn't dug up by right-wingers though. Women's and LGBTQ+ groups came out against him over all of this when he announced.

At least seven local or state Democratic groups, including the California National Organization for Women and the LGBT-focused Stonewall Democratic Club, have denounced Uygur's past remarks, with some calling for him to drop out of the race.

From the article in the OP.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I think you will find Bloomberg's policies are quite bad; I know I do. He is using his own money to run to counter Warren and Sanders. Wealthy people generally don't just throw their money away at nothing. One thing I will say in Bloomberg's favor though, at least he is a part of the constituency that he is running to represent.

TYT can endorse candidates, the problem arises when the founder of TYT runs for office and gets endorsements in return. At that point, it becomes very difficult to avoid the perception of a quid pro quo. It creates the exact sort of muddy intersections of interest that corruption thrives in.

Investors want their money back, with a return. Again, wealthy people generally don't just throw their money away at nothing. If these people just wanted to give money to progressive causes out of the goodness of their hearts, there are plenty of charities or non-profits they could have donated to. Uygar could have set up TYT as a non-profit. Instead he choose to expand by taking rounds of Venture Capital Funding. This is the one of the more aggressive ways to raise money. It is the way most modern technology companies, like Twitter, Facebook and Google chose to fund their growth. It comes with strings attached. People don't give up millions of dollars for nothing. They are buying something.



Harvey Weinstein as well. Hell, pretty much every powerful man who has ever done something wrong is able to leverage their privilege into mounting this defense.

I'm familiar first hand with venture capital funding
There's a part of the loop that's missing here.

For example, corporations fund candidate, candidate beholden to corporations, candidate supports pro corporate policies, candidate gets huge payment after leaving office, revolving door.

In Cenk case, he's not taking donations, but is getting a boost from tyt.

So tyt boosts cenk, cenk beholden to tyt, tyt is beholden to audience for ratings and (you're argument) vcs for (ongoing?) Financial support, then ?

I just don't see the direct path as in the top case.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,666
I definitely remember Cenk Uygur saying "I'm a capitalist" before which makes his "money out of politics" motto asinine, it's a complete lack of understanding what politics are mainly about (controlling/regulating the economy and validating wealth inequality via law).
You know exactly what they mean by that - implementing public funding of elections and abolishing Citizens United. You can be a Capitalist and fight against corruption at the same time.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,463
Are we really just gonna dance around the fact that his news organization is named after a group that perpetrated genocide?
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
It wasn't dug up by right-wingers though. Women's and LGBTQ+ groups came out against him over all of this when he announced.



From the article in the OP.

Oh I know that. And again for completeness sake, it ultimately doesn't matter. This isn't made up.

I was specifically referring to the blog posts.
The stuff about his old blog posts came up before his candidacy, when he was ousted from justice Democrats. Doing more research on how they resurfaced, they were actually published in the entertainment news site "the wrap" in 2017. https://www.thewrap.com/young-turks-cenk-uygur-blog-breasts-women-flawed/
 

Deleted member 23212

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Oct 28, 2017
11,225
That's no reason to not fight against corruption where it's blatantly obvious, like in the case of CU.
Citizen's United was a Supreme Court decision overturning a law, so Cenk, running for the House of Representatives, would not be able to do much about that because only the Senate votes on Supreme Court Justices.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,886
Oh I know that. And again for completeness sake, it ultimately doesn't matter. This isn't made up.

I was specifically referring to the blog posts.
The stuff about his old blog posts came up before his candidacy, when he was ousted from justice Democrats. Doing more research on how they resurfaced, they were actually published in the entertainment news site "the wrap" in 2017. https://www.thewrap.com/young-turks-cenk-uygur-blog-breasts-women-flawed/
He's been getting hit over this stuff for the better part of the last decade. This stuff wasn't some recent discovery, people on the left have actively been critiquing him over it for a long time now.
 

Deleted member 23212

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Oct 28, 2017
11,225
Come on now. You're arguing like anti gun regulation people. You can't fix everything so let's fix nothing!

Less corruption is better.

Right now it's almost literally a bag of money getting handed directly.
I'm not saying we should do nothing, in fact we need to do a lot, i.e. overthrow the American government. Otherwise we're just upholding a system that relies on racism, sexism, inequality and injustice to exist.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,282
I'm familiar first hand with venture capital funding
There's a part of the loop that's missing here.

For example, corporations fund candidate, candidate beholden to corporations, candidate supports pro corporate policies, candidate gets huge payment after leaving office, revolving door.

In Cenk case, he's not taking donations, but is getting a boost from tyt.

So tyt boosts cenk, cenk beholden to tyt, tyt is beholden to audience for ratings and (you're argument) vcs for (ongoing?) Financial support, then ?

I just don't see the direct path as in the top case.

First of all TYT doesn't just boost Uygar. There is a new class of politician and political powerbroker that TYT helps find an audience. That is one of the things investors are buying access to.

Your second example is a more direct path! Here Uygar doesn't even need to leave office to reap the rewards. It's no revolving door, he just gets to post up as long as he likes. That's not good!

It feels like your personal experience with VC might be coloring your view here.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I'm not saying we should do nothing, in fact we need to do a lot, i.e. overthrow the American government. Otherwise we're just upholding a system that relies on racism, sexism, inequality and injustice to exist.

Well. Overthrowing the government is certainly something.

I guess I'd lean towards trying constitutional amendments first.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
First of all TYT doesn't just boost Uygar. There is a new class of politician and political powerbroker that TYT helps find an audience. That is one of the things investors are buying access to.

Your second example is a more direct path! Here Uygar doesn't even need to leave office to reap the rewards. It's no revolving door, he just gets to post up as long as he likes. That's not good!

It feels like your personal experience with VC might be coloring your view here.

I still don't see the where the loop closes. Progressive politicians get boost from tyt, tyt beholden to audience (and vc according to you), then what happens? How do VCs get a return here?
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
A constitutional amendment a two-thirds majority in both the House and Senate, and requires three-quarters of state legislatures agreeing to it, which is almost impossible in today's climate.

Yes. You need near consensus, and there are a few issues in which there is that level of consensus. You don't have to do it through congress. Constitutional convention has been what has prompted recent amendments. We're actually due for one.
 

Deleted member 23212

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Oct 28, 2017
11,225
Yes. You need near consensus, and there are a few issues in which there is that level of consensus. You don't have to do it through congress. Constitutional convention has been what has prompted recent amendments. We're actually due for one.
Actually, only a single amendment has been from that method, and it was 21st which repealed the 18th. There have been 6 amendments passed since then, so no, it is not what has prompted recent amendments.
 

Deleted member 5359

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Oct 25, 2017
11,326
Saturdays are for cracking open a cold one and denying a little genocide with the boys.

I like some of TYT like Ken Klippenstein's reporting. But Cenk has no business in public office, LOL. Stick to being "guy on Internet."
 

Craymond

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,282
Portland
All of Cenk's baggage is all Cenk's fault. That seems indisputable. It comes down to whether or not you choose to forgive him (for me that's a hard hole to climb out of). My biggest issue with his candidacy in the first place is that he runs a media outlet. That's a massive conflict that directly ties into his baggage. Yes, oppo research is dirty, but dude literally runs a media outlet that he can wield. And again, there's only baggage because he really said those things.

That being said, Mendoza Ferrer's intentions are totally transparent if you visit her Twitter profile today. It's almost entirely retweets about how this is all about Sanders. Constantly using Cenk's name but not really attacking him; opting to use him to bludgeon Sanders with. She's also liking conspiracy tweets about how the Sanders endorsement proves that Sanders is trying to build a society where all his women detractors are harassed and doxed for disagreeing with him, or that Sanders and his movement are a bigger threat to women than Trump supporters.
He did cede all editorial control to Ana. And doesn't talk about the campaign unless he is a guest in an interview. TYT seems to be handling it correctly.
 

Craymond

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,282
Portland
Saturdays are for cracking open a cold one and denying a little genocide with the boys.

I like some of TYT like Ken Klippenstein's reporting. But Cenk has no business in public office, LOL. Stick to being "guy on Internet."
He doesn't deny it today... put yourself in a very conservative culture that all denies it to this day. People are a snapshot and can choose to be less ignorant over time.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,463
Overthrowing governments typically end extremely poorly for people like me, ie people who rely on public and social services to receive medication and therapy. And it's always stuff that that gets shut down and left to be handled "once things stabilize".
 

Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
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The name of Cenk's show should be changed as "The Young Turks" has criticized because in history, the original Young Turks is the group that committed the Armenian genocide, the exact event that Cenk has denied:


The Young Turks, upon whose name Mr. Uygur's program is based, officially known as the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), came to power in the waning days of the Ottoman Empire using the guise of reform and progressive ideology. As World War I began, the leaders of the Young Turks, known as the Triumvirate, or Three Pashas, — Mehmet Talaat, Ahmed Djemal, and Ismail Enver – initiated the planned extermination of the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire.

These Young Turks were responsible for the murder of over 1.5 million Armenians. The suffering of the Armenian Nation at the hands of this group has left an indelible association of the moniker with the incomprehensible horrors of the Armenian Genocide.

Mr. Uygur's decision to use this highly offensive and hurtful moniker for his news program has been a source of continued pain for the Armenian community in the United States and abroad.

Furthermore, Mr. Uygur has publicly denied the genocide committed against the Armenian people. One example is in the Daily Pennsylvanian where he wrote, "The claims of an Armenian Genocide are not based on historical facts. If the history of the period is examined it becomes evident that in fact no such genocide took place."


The Armenian Genocide was the Young Turk government's systematic extermination of its Armenian subjects.
 

TyraZaurus

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Nov 6, 2017
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Craymond

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,282
Portland
Worth noting all of Ana's twitter timeline is basically her fundraising for him right now and playing up how much of a victim he apparently is
Not on the show which is important. Don't get me wrong, in that context looks bad. But it is her private Twitter and outside their media she can do what she wants. She personally supports him and his policies.
 

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
I haven't watched tyt in a while but I'm sure they're still up there in popularity when it comes to news online.

On the eating Itself thing... It's not that simple. For one, Cenk himself is being and has always been extremely aggressive to the left (from the left). He's directly calling out his opponent as being corrupt or beholden to donors due to taken big donations. Whether you think he's right or wrong, he's still indisputably attacking. Does that count as the left eating Itself?

On the case of this attacks on his character. It's a mix, was it in part dug up by right wingers seeking to damage him? Yes, but that doesn't make it not real or a real issue.

I'm personally fine with candidates in primaries attacking each other. The alternative is worse. It's giving a pass to shitty behavior and shitty policies. The only thing candidates have to make clear is at the end of the day any Democrat is better than the Republican alternative

I'm not defending Cenk.. dude has always came across as giant sanctimonious douchebag. TYT were a big part of the left attacking the left for as long as I can remember.
 

Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Thank god someone else sees this. How is this not a much bigger deal than it is?

Very good question, I don't consider "The Young Turks" to be progressive, why? Cenk's misogynistic and other offensive statements he has made on the show itself (all of these statements are well documented thanks to YouTube), why would TYT be considered progressive with all the offensive statements Cenk has made on the show itsellf??? Also, the name of the show itself knowing the history of the original Young Turks and Cenk's public denial of the Armenian genocide.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
He doesn't deny it today... put yourself in a very conservative culture that all denies it to this day. People are a snapshot and can choose to be less ignorant over time.
#261
He still volunteers and financially supports organizations that deny the Armenian genocide.


this picture is a little over a year after his "apology".


this is outside of the racism/using the n-word/misogyny/etc.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
Not on the show which is important. Don't get me wrong, in that context looks bad. But it is her private Twitter and outside their media she can do what she wants. She personally supports him and his policies.
From the New York Times Ethical Journalism handbook:
Staff members may not themselves give money to, or raise money for, any political candidate or election cause. Given the ease of Internet access to public records of campaign contributors, any political giving by a Times staff member would carry a great risk of feeding a false impression that the paper is taking sides.

No staff member may seek public office anywhere. Seeking or serving in public office plainly violates the professional detachment expected of a journalist. It poses a risk of having the staff member's political views imputed to The Times, and it can sow a suspicion of favoritism in The Times's political coverage when one of its staff is an active participant.
In journalism, they attempt to have higher standards.
 
OP
OP
jack_package_200
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
Worth noting all of Ana's twitter timeline is basically her fundraising for him right now and playing up how much of a victim he apparently is
I would definitely not say she is a good witness of his character.


The name of Cenk's show should be changed as "The Young Turks" has criticized because in history, the original Young Turks is the group that committed the Armenian genocide, the exact event that Cenk has denied:




People have wondered this for years why he picked that name
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,463
It's also an empowerment group for Turkish Americans, likely a cause near and dear to him. There's some chance here that Cenk wants to convince other deniers. This man probably has too much baggage for the House but I still stand by his policies and fight against corruption.

You can support Turkish Americans without supporting organizations that pretend a genocide didn't happen.
 

Deleted member 19003

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3,809
Because people who are the ACTUAL left care about these things. The fact that you see them through the lens of "but the right doesn't care" is the ultimate summation of why I don't fucking trust leftists.

You don't care about anyone but yourselves. And to you, people bringing up this fact are an obstacle to your goals.

This is why the "left"ist movement of the past few years is overwhelmingly white, male, and affluent: It's rightism in tie-dye. It's the desperate flailings of a sexist, racist group, radicalized by modern internet culture, trying to re-center white maleness in a party that is mostly women, black people, and other groups that would be relegated to second-class status in the right's perfect world. And those groups see right through it.

You aren't the left. Don't pretend to be. IF this were ten years ago, you'd be stumping for Racist Ronnie Paul because he promised to help with your college debt and legalize weed.

We see your ass.
Oh damn, you nailed it. Preach!!!
 

Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Well, this is fucked, how long has the U.S kept Turkey as an ally???:


Scholars outside of Turkey usually place the figure between 1 and 1.5 million, and almost all of them apply the genocide label (though the U.S. government, to avoid angering its ally Turkey, does not).

Many Americans, understandably, hear "genocide denier" and think "evil." But the case of the Armenian Genocide is not so simple, and does not warrant the frequent comparisons with Holocaust denial. First of all, the German government, unlike the Turkish government, acknowledges its genocide. German law mandates that Holocaust history be taught in schools; popular Turkish history books at best relate a biased version of Ottoman-Armenian history, and at worst include elements of total fabrication. Turks who aren't indoctrinated by pervasive genocide denial are forbidden to speak against it under Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code, which declares it illegal to "insult the Turkish nation." The journalist Hrant Dink is among those who've been prosecuted in recent years for acknowledging the genocide; shortly afterward he was assassinated by a Turkish nationalist. Almost all of those who grow up in Turkey, even liberals and those opposed to the authoritarian AKP government believe that their country has been unfairly condemned for crimes it didn't commit against the Armenians.
 
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