Oct 25, 2017
6,991
The irony of this post is that Nixon was a significantly more dangerous president to the world than Trump

I don't really believe that anymore. Trump has stated pushing states apart from each other and fractured a ton of alliances while empowering the worst dictators. I absolutely believe a two term Trump is literally the worst thing that will have happened to the US since the civil war.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
So I belive her when she says Biden sexually assaulted her, but I also believe he's not guilty of sexually assaulting her.
Yeah, that seems to work.

The amount of people that don't understand what "believe women" is supposed to be is infuriating.

Believe women doesn't mean we throw out due process and lock up everyone who has been accused.

Believe women means we don't shrug off their story as opportunist or smearing or faking and listen to what they have to say and have a meaningful and serious investigation into the matter.

 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,857
Bernie's answer might as well be saying nothing. It's completely non committal. Maybe you should look into it more when you were running against the guy, and before you endorse him.

I listened to the NYTimes Daily podcast on this allegation and there's not a lot of evidence verifiable evidence.

Tara said she filed a complaint to some Senate office which would be the corroborating evidence, but it's subject to FOIA and may not appear for months... just in time for the election.
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
I don't really believe that anymore. Trump has stated pushing states apart from each other and fractured a ton of alliances while empowering the worst dictators. I absolutely believe a two term Trump is literally the worst thing that will have happened to the US since the civil war.
See this is completely ignoring Foreign Policy and how South America, Vietnam and Cambodia were all directly affected in horrific ways by the Nixon administration

If you dont like dictators then oof, Nixon shouldnt even be mentioned.

This is not praising Trump, obviously, but I have zero doubts that any other republican in office would have invaded Venezuela already, maybe even Cuba and Nicaragua. The only reason Trump hasnt done is because hes too stupid and he gets bored of south american politics pretty quickly.

Some people will see this topic of conversation as useless but I genuinely think that Bush jr and Nixon were more damaging to the world than Trump.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,765
Greater Vancouver
I just don't understand how anyone can give that answer and still endorse him. It makes absolutely no sense unless he believes Biden didn't do it. And if that's his belief, he should just say it.
Because his choices are either discouraging voters from voting Democrat in an election opposite to one of the most incompetent and disgusting leaders America has ever seen, or maintaining his endorsement without overtly throwing the accuser under the bus (which plenty of so-called progressives are happy to do).
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,850
As someone from the other side of the ocean it still amazes me how this is the best you could come up with. It feels like European politicians are in another league sometimes.
 

Duane

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,524
I believe Reade and I'm going to vote for Biden. It's so fucked up. Everything is so fucked up now. I just wish Bernie would speak the way he always has. This answer is just so stock DC. It bums me out.


This is my answer too. I'm voting for Biden, and it's not because I don't believe sexual assault victims, or Reade specifically. I do, and I don't think Biden deserves my vote as a result of the allegations. And I'm going to vote for him despite this. Not because my convictions are weak, but because preventing the alternative is that critical. I feel that it's immoral to vote for Biden, but that contributing to a Trump victory through electoral inaction is even more so.
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,012
See this is completely ignoring Foreign Policy and how South America, Vietnam and Cambodia were all directly affected in horrific ways by the Nixon administration

If you dont like dictators then oof, Nixon shouldnt even be mentioned.

This is not praising Trump, obviously, but I have zero doubts that any other republican in office would have invaded Venezuela already, maybe even Cuba and Nicaragua. The only reason Trump hasnt done is because hes too stupid and he gets bored of south american politics pretty quickly.

Some people will see this topic of conversation as useless but I genuinely think that Bush jr and Nixon were more damaging to the world than Trump.
I could see them being more damaging to the world, but Trump is more damaging to America.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
Bernie's answer might as well be saying nothing. It's completely non committal. Maybe you should look into it more when you were running against the guy, and before you endorse him.

I listened to the NYTimes Daily podcast on this allegation and there's not a lot of evidence verifiable evidence.

Tara said she filed a complaint to some Senate office which would be the corroborating evidence, but it's subject to FOIA and may not appear for months... just in time for the election.

The NYT will get ahold of it a week before the election and do a big story. It will be great.
 
OP
OP
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
The US has shown that they would vote rather for a potential criminal - again - than for someone like Sanders. Sadly, it's either Biden or another 4 years of Trump.

Still don't understand why Sanders isn't so popular. People would rather eat shit and their guns than vote for Sanders and better healthcare.


Yeah, same here. Fucking boggles my mind. German politicians lost their job for plagiarism of their dissertation from decades ago, while the US shits on everything.

Trump probably could get away with murder right now. It would also be the best, most tremendous murder in the history of murders. And his chance of getting re-elected would probably increase, too.

Technically, Trump is getting away with murder with some of how he's handling the coronavirus.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Trump is a greater or the greatest existential threat to the country and the world

He shouldn't be the candidate, it forces people to either say fuck this whole system, or say that well hes creepy and likely a rapist, but we want our side to win. Thats no way to unite a voting block that needs to hit the polls like wildfire. A lot of people are sick of this shit. And wont mind watching it all go to shit. This situation at least, I'll respect anyone that doesn't want to go down in history voting for biden. Because hes likely a rapist. Thats more noble than being mad bernie didn't get the nod. I understand it. And well, the DNC fucked up majorly pushing him. People should not be in this position when you need to win.

Its a very bad hand to play against Trump.

You have to at least understand how people feel, who have been victims, to say "yeah but, we need to fight fascism" its a tough spot.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,098
The irony of this post is that Nixon was a significantly more dangerous president to the world than Trump

That is a difficult statement to defend at this point.

He shouldn't be the candidate, it forces people to either say fuck this whole system, or say that well hes creepy and likely a rapist, but we want our side to win. Thats no way to unite a voting block that needs to hit the polls like wildfire. A lot of people are sick of this shit. And wont mind watching it all go to shit. This situation at least, I'll respect anyone that doesn't want to go down in history voting for biden. Because hes likely a rapist. Thats more noble than being mad bernie didn't get the nod. I understand it. And well, the DNC fucked up majorly pushing him. People should not be in this position when you need to win.

Its a very bad hand to play against Trump.

The tyranny of the majority cuts both ways. He's what the electorate chose for whatever reason, and now we gotta win with him. He's not a great hand to be stuck with but it's not an impossible hand to win with by any means. Most people don't care about this issue to the degree that they'll sit back and let Trump win again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
I dislike the language Bernie is using here to describe the situation. I get that he, like so many right now, feels as if he's in between a rock and a hard place, but the language he uses here is both non-committal and borders on likening the accusation to some gut feeling or 'interpretation' of events. I appreciate that he doesn't try to dismiss it outright, and supports the discussion, but he's not wading into it with any major support either which feels shitty.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,508
Biden will no doubt be a hundred times better for your country than Trump but man having your choice be between two people with varying degrees of sexual assault allegations against them is pretty crazy.
Sucky, but the reality we are in and 4 more years of Trump would threaten abortion and gay rights for the next 50 years, millions of people regarding HC, would threaten the country with the handling of COVID, and threaten the world with the handling of climate change.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
That is a difficult statement to defend at this point.



The tyranny of the majority cuts both ways. He's what the electorate chose for whatever reason, and now we gotta win with him. He's not a great hand to be stuck with but it's not an impossible hand to win with by any means. Most people don't care about this issue to the degree that they'll sit back and let Trump win again.

I understand this argument. And I understand the people who care about the issue enough to not vote for him. More so than 2016. I can't imagine how I'd feel as a victim reading on this forum time and time again that its less important than the greater good. I'm just saying thats a rough way to start off your fight against fascism. Its an additional challenge when we really dont need any more.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
I dislike the language Bernie is using here to describe the situation. I get that he, like so many right now, feels as if he's in between a rock and a hard place, but the language he uses here is both non-committal and borders on likening the accusation to some gut feeling or 'interpretation' of events. I appreciate that he doesn't try to dismiss it outright, and supports the discussion, but he's not wading into it with any major support either which feels shitty.

I think it's pretty reasonable to think both he and Warren saw the reporting recently and felt comfortable to continue forward with their endorsements.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,365
This happened after Bernie drop out, after the media kept quiet and a year after Reade first spoke about it.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
For one....really?? You're okay with saying that? And two....4 more years of Trump can easily accelerate climate change, all over the world, but if you're cool with that then hey.

You're out of your gourd if you think either of them care about climate change. Trump may be marginally worse but we all know that the primary driving force behind this phenomenon has nothing to do with who's president.

Also, I thought we were all about harm mitigation here. Crazy that someone could also theoretically use that as basis for criticizing the US's absurd self-absorption or exceptionalism in placing their own political interests over literally everyone else. A lot of people just want to go back to when the US could shit up the world without them having to hear about it. Sorry if me holding another opinion is uncomfortable for you.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,508
You're out of your gourd if you think either of them care about climate change. Trump may be marginally worse but we all know that the primary driving force behind this phenomenon has nothing to do with who's president.

Also, I thought we were all about harm mitigation here. Crazy that someone could also theoretically use that as basis for criticizing the US's absurd self-absorption or exceptionalism in placing their own political interests over literally everyone else. A lot of people just want to go back to when the US could shit up the world without them having to hear about it. Sorry if me holding another opinion is uncomfortable for you.
When it comes to people literally fearing for their lives because of Trump and the senate and court, I think it goes beyond "self absorption".
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,755
This happened after Bernie drop out, after the media kept quiet and a year after Reade first spoke about it.


She came forward much more recently with a different accusation than what she said last year. At that time she said that his actions weren't sexual so Biden made a statement about respecting people's space, and that was pretty much it media coverage-wise. This more recent accusation is that the interaction was a sexual assault, which is why the reporting is now addressing that.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
When it comes to people literally fearing for their lives because of Trump and the senaye and court, I think it goes beyond "self absorption".

The court is already fucked, the American electoral system is undergoing a fucking cascade of institutional failures rn. Fear is absolutely reasonable but a lot of people are utterly deluded about the apparent solution and think they can tow an elephant with a shoe string.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,780
The court is already fucked, the American electoral system is undergoing a fucking cascade of institutional failures rn. Fear is absolutely reasonable but a lot of people are utterly deluded about the apparent solution.
For me Biden is about trying to fix some of the damage and setting up for larger gains in the future. We have to stop the knife wound bleeding before we walk and run again.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,508
The court is already fucked, the American electoral system is undergoing a fucking cascade of institutional failures rn. Fear is reasonable but a lot of people are deluded about the apparent solution.
Trump leaving office and the senate going blue would be a drastic change. Social security and medicare being stripped wouldn't be a threat. Gay and abortion rights stripped wouldn't be a threat. Gun threats would decrease drastically. The climate change fight would at minimum improve enough to stay afloat. And oh yea....democrats would handle COVID or another potential virus at least 100x better.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,148
Dems really put themselves in a corner with all the events of the past 3 years.

Now they have to become hypocrites to support their own predator-in-chief.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,667
At least he said something but it's a pretty lame non-committal answer. Oh well. I'm sure when this is over they'll still be friends.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Trump leaving office and the senate going blue would be a drastic change. Social security and medicare being stripped wouldn't be a threat. Gay and abortion rights stripped wouldn't be a threat. Gun threats would decrease drastically. The climate change fight would at minimum improve enough to stay afloat. And oh yea....democrats would handle COVID or another potential virus at least 100x better.

I legitimately don't understand how people still believe this, Dems are politically inert because actually doing things for a change would give away their con of rule by slow mediated and educated meritocracy that somehow always counts as a wet fart. I'm sure that's why a lot of people vote for the GOP, because as antithetical to life as they are in every way, they're at least reactive enough to show some signs of life themselves. It would certainly explain why the dems can't seem to win to save their lives. As far as I'm concerned the two are in active cooperation in ushering in fascism, and whether the Dems see themselves as that or not the effect is the same.

And I'd fucking love to be proven wrong, but to convince anyone they'd actually have to start by stopping the counter-scheduling against the left for a single second.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
I think it's pretty reasonable to think both he and Warren saw the reporting recently and felt comfortable to continue forward with their endorsements.

To a degree, I don't see the pathway for either to approach the topic any differently without major consequences. As has been discussed, this entire problem is one of intersectionality; it's victims vs. victims, and when that happens, nobody wins. To come out in strong support of the accuser is, in a political landscape as inflamed as this one, to come out swinging against the best chance to defeat Trump. If Biden loses against Trump, how would one avoid the suggestion that his chances were impaired artificially by those who should have been the most reliable allies to be enemies when all is said and done? 2016 -- not a thing anyone wants to re-litigate, I know -- is still a mess one way or another without the needed retrospective and analysis that could help the party better understand itself and its priorities, but as of right now, were Warren or Sanders to come out in swift support of a victim in need of said support, they would almost certainly be blamed for a loss should it happen, even if data doesn't bear it out.

I hope that the party understands that as awful as Trump is and as unfortunate as these circumstances are, the decisions powerful people make that undermine victims will be remembered -- whoever those victims are -- and without honesty and integrity on their side as they make those decisions, well, they will be haunted by that. As long as this party wants to be the one guided by a moral compass, it will be strikingly clear any time they choose to abandon it as they wrestle with these issues.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
9,004
So I belive her when she says Biden sexually assaulted her, but I also believe he's not guilty of sexually assaulting her.
Yeah, that seems to work.

That's not what Believe Women means. It means that we should take every claim of Sexual Assault 100% seriously and at face value, and recognize the fact that the overwhelming majority of allegations are NOT made up.
 

cgcg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
430
Who says he needs to believe one way or another?

A claim has been made, there's no proof to either side. There is little reason to weigh in with a random guess as to whether either side is telling the truth.

Lol please, if it's one person accusing you of sexual misconduct then sure give the benefit of the doubt. But when several people accused you, let's be real here. You are just in denial if you think they are all false.

Just a tip, this type of false accusation rate is about 5%, do some simple math lol
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
To a degree, I don't see the pathway for either to approach the topic any differently without major consequences. As has been discussed, this entire problem is one of intersectionality; it's victims vs. victims, and when that happens, nobody wins. To come out in strong support of the accuser is, in a political landscape as inflamed as this one, to come out swinging against the best chance to defeat Trump. If Biden loses against Trump, how would one avoid the suggestion that his chances were impaired artificially by those who should have been the most reliable allies to be enemies when all is said and done? 2016 -- not a thing anyone wants to re-litigate, I know -- is still a mess one way or another without the needed retrospective and analysis that could help the party better understand itself and its priorities, but as of right now, were Warren or Sanders to come out in swift support of a victim in need of said support, they would almost certainly be blamed for a loss should it happen, even if data doesn't bear it out.

I hope that the party understands that as awful as Trump is and as unfortunate as these circumstances are, the decisions powerful people make that undermine victims will be remembered -- whoever those victims are -- and without honesty and integrity on their side as they make those decisions, well, they will be haunted by that. As long as this party wants to be the one guided by a moral compass, it will be strikingly clear any time they choose to abandon it as they wrestle with these issues.

I think they would simply withhold their endorsement if they felt Biden was more likely than not guilty of sexual assault. If more were to come out down the line and a serious effort were made to replace Biden, they risk looking complicit since they endorsed after publication.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
I think they would simply withhold their endorsement if they felt Biden was more likely than not guilty of sexual assault. If more were to come out down the line and a serious effort were made to replace Biden, they risk looking complicit since they endorsed after publication.

Why do you think that? People think Biden is guilty and have no problem voting for him right here on this forum. Why do you think the people in charge are any different?
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
The amount of people that don't understand what "believe women" is supposed to be is infuriating.

Believe women doesn't mean we throw out due process and lock up everyone who has been accused.

Believe women means we don't shrug off their story as opportunist or smearing or faking and listen to what they have to say and have a meaningful and serious investigation into the matter.


You talk being mad about people not understanding "believe women" and then immediately attach it to due process as if all of life was a courtroom where victims have are up to fail. Many times there is no solid evidence the rape happened but that doesn't mean the victim should not get justice.

Do you believe she was raped?

Do you believe she is competent enough to know who did it?

If no, then at least be honest. You cannot answer in the negative to those questions and then say you believe women let alone set people straight on what that means.

It's about support for victims and consequences for predators in all areas, socially, professionally, politically AND legally.

If Biden's peers treated him the same as they have a any other republican that has been MeToo'd he would fold and move aside on his own before the general election started. No convention madness or courtroom needed just basic empathy and accountability. But the party does NOT believe women or victims, they say so only and ONLY when it's convenient.
 

Mgs2master2

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,868
Trump is a greater or the greatest existential threat to the country and the world
This. Being a victim myself and still having PTSD from it, Trump remains to being one of the biggest threats to mankind itself. Thats my opinion on it as a victim.

Im down to get rid of Trump, but don't let Biden slide either hold him accountable.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Yeah the Kavanaugh outrage + #metoo is looking extremely suspect now

Quoting a post from another thread:

e20e32d4b877f72d51c93d97ed0f3a79641d0683.jpg

b5adfaf29d98df8ce3a3d3e7a7d5887af9bdeab8.jpg


35b1654e6820bf74965faa652e496882747c209a.jpg

fe9a26c8c4d928aad815cdb35d2fe350554d45d3.png


Fucking amazing. #BelieveWomen until it's time to defend our guy.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
Why do you think that? People think Biden is guilty and have no problem voting for him right here on this forum. Why do you think the people in charge are any different?

Because Bernie and especially Warren are public figures who want a long career in which they're influential. If they thought the story was going to sink Biden (which I think a Kavanaugh like level of corroboration certainly would) they'd have no reason to endorse in the first place.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
36,016
Wow. Must have stretched that muscle as far as it went. Bunch of nothing really.
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,555
The amount of people that don't understand what "believe women" is supposed to be is infuriating.

Believe women doesn't mean we throw out due process and lock up everyone who has been accused.

Believe women means we don't shrug off their story as opportunist or smearing or faking and listen to what they have to say and have a meaningful and serious investigation into the matter.

Who said anything about locking Biden up?
 

Deleted member 82

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,626
Literally days after he officially endorsed Biden, he pretty much had two choices:
1) saying the allegations are a lie, like the Biden campaign said
2) going neutral, like he did here

It's a non-statement, but I'm glad that at least he didn't go "Joe is a good friend, I believe in him". For as much flak as he gets for supposedly being too angry, a lot of us on the left think he's been way too nice on Biden (even before the endorsement). So this is pretty much as good a statement as it gets for Bernie considering the timing.