Battlefield V |OT2| Empire of the Soon

Trisc · Nov 15, 2019

grandwizorb said:
..but BTK IS TTK? At the end of the day it takes longer to kill people at range which ends up making it useless to shoot people at range like it did BF1. They're also adjusting recoils to compensate for this which is another thing that they simply should not mess with. This game literally has the best gunplay of any Battlefield and they are going to screw it up.

Bullets to kill isn't time to kill, though. A weapon that fires at high RPM and does low damage per bullet will have a similar TTK to a weapon that fires at low RPM but does high damage per bullet.

These changes will make it so slow firing weapons will be more practical at ranges where they previously got mowed down, while still making high RPM weapons practical choices at close range.

Look at this absurd shit

13 shots to kill someone at range = why even bother when they are going to run away and heal up. EXACTLY LIKE BF1.

The MG-42 and Browning Machine Gun have the same damage and dropoff, but the MG-42 fires much faster. Changing the MG-42's BTK means that it opens up the possibility for the BMG (and other slow-firing MMGs) to become far more viable.

elyetis said:
Every example shown are equal bullet to kill at some distance, increased number of bullet for other distances/range ( or all range for Trench ). No increase of the RPM is mentionned => bigger time to kill.

This is simply playing on words.

They specifically cite the Thompson and MG-42 being bullet hoses, and explain how the changes will affect those weapons.

We're treating each of the weapons very differently in terms of how we address their performances at different ranges, and you can see that in the case of the Thompson (a very high Rate of Fire Weapon) that the weapon largely behaves the same at it's usual CQB engagement range. Over distance, you can see that the weapon won't perform as strongly, either encouraging you to switch to a different weapon on a more open map, or make more use of Smokes to close the gap on your opponent before engaging. Similarly the MG42 is shown to be considerably less effective at range, but with it's High Rate of Fire and large magazine size, will still bare strong warning to players who are pushing an objective.

ChippyTurtle · Nov 15, 2019

Hmm. Eh....eh.(ttk is hmm. Spotting is eh.) I had fun with the Pacific but I need space for more games so time to uninstall BFV for a bit. I'm honestly okay with whatever changes are made, but tbh I'm not looking for a easy shooter so I'm going to stop playing BFV, the game was already pretty easy but if they decide to give newcomers more assistance that's good.

As a guy who solo in Mp, I can provide suggestions based on my own experience. Play Breakthrough, as the focused map allows the disadvantages of being solo to be minimized by the fact everyone is pretty much pushing the same region.

Get used to being solo, and act accordingly. If I fight I seek 1v1, if more show up, I run like a chicken. I keep in mind I'm solo, so my usefulness is 1.living,2.harassing,3.producing the most value for my team.

Commonly I do things like man tank MGs, repair, set up sandbags and AT defenses, man AT guns, man AA guns.

I don't get high kill scores, but I feel like these force multipliers do help my team as a whole.

Alcohog · Nov 15, 2019

Stat said:
That's my worry. Do I want to be a solo MP player?

In normal game types it doesn't matter so much, and it automatically puts you in a squad now.
Firestorm however isn't worth playing until you've got some people to play with, but just play with randoms and you'll have friends in no time if you don't make awful gameplay decisions.

Skade · Nov 15, 2019

pj- said:
I don't see what the big deal is about the acquisition. Only you see it, it's not broadcast to your squad or teammates, and it only appears within a fairly close range. I would guess the intention is to make MMG losers lying on their back in a rubble pile more visible.

I think i'd be ok with this acquisition thing if it only applies to players that are prone/crouch and not moving (ergo, the prone boys in the bushes/corners). But definitely not on standing or moving targets.

SapientWolf · Nov 15, 2019

pj- said:
I don't see what the big deal is about the acquisition. Only you see it, it's not broadcast to your squad or teammates, and it only appears within a fairly close range. I would guess the intention is to make MMG losers lying on their back in a rubble pile more visible.

I just think it ultimately makes the game less unique and interesting, since the relative lack of player icons was their boldest move in BFV. Everything else in the game was conservative almost to a fault. If they really want to go that route I'd rather they do literally anything other than the icons again.

I also wish they would do something to make camping tanks easier to take out, since literally no one on either team likes them.

kratos2412 · Nov 15, 2019

Wow really great Changes with 5.2
Thought these changes will come with Bad Company 3 . Respect

DICE taking notes from Modern Warfare too. both games big conquest is a hiden and seek game

pj- · Nov 15, 2019

Skade said:
I think i'd be ok with this acquisition thing if it only applies to players that are prone/crouch and not moving (ergo, the prone boys in the bushes/corners). But definitely not on standing or moving targets.

If someone is standing or moving on my screen within 15 meters I've generally spotted them myself, so this would just be telling me what I already know in those situations. Not an enhancement but I don't think it's detrimental either.

Skade · Nov 15, 2019

SapientWolf said:
I also wish they would do something to make camping tanks easier to take out, since literally no one on either team likes them.

Yeah, instead of raising the bullets to kill at longer range, they should instead raising the shells to kill at longer range ! That would render those camping lads even more useless and might push them to advance.

pj- said:
If someone is standing or moving on my screen within 15 meters I've generally spotted them myself, so this would just be telling me what I already know in those situations. Not an enhancement but I don't think it's detrimental either.

Not always. I like to try to infiltrate the enemy team by running among them and not immediately firing, waiting for the right moment to skewer them. It's a fun thing to do that will be completely negated by this change as i wouldn't be able to stealth my way anymore.

SecondNature · Nov 15, 2019

I dont necessarily mind the spotting changes as people complained forever about prone MMG players, but it sounds visually ugly to see a bunch of dots.

My issue with the TTK changes is that sniping is already so easy to do, and I fear it will get easier if Im firing peas at the enemy after a distance

pj- · Nov 15, 2019

Skade said:
Not always. I like to try to infiltrate the enemy team by running among them and not immediately firing, waiting for the right moment to skewer them. It's a fun thing to do that will be completely negated by this change as i wouldn't be able to stealth my way anymore.

I suppose there will be fewer hilarious gifs of people flanking in operation underground and getting 10 kills by running around a group of confused enemies.

It may be fun to do but part of the reason it's possible is that it's often hard to tell an enemy from a friendly in a crowded and hectic spot. The mostly drab colors combined with a large variety of cosmetics mean you sometimes don't spot an enemy in a group of friendlies. Most of the time I look for the blue icon so I know who not to shoot. I don't think it's a tremendous change to look for the red icon (at close ranges) to see who needs to die.

They said pretty clearly they will listen to feedback and make changes if people hate it. If it makes the game worse I believe they'll get rid of it. I also expect there to be an option to disable it, and other visual aids, in Community Games

pj- · Nov 15, 2019

SapientWolf said:
I just think it ultimately makes the game less unique and interesting, since the relative lack of player icons was their boldest move in BFV. Everything else in the game was conservative almost to a fault. If they really want to go that route I'd rather they do literally anything other than the icons again.

I also wish they would do something to make camping tanks easier to take out, since literally no one on either team likes them.

Well there's a blue or green icon over every single friendly, plus icons over spotted enemies.. It doesn't seem that drastic to put an icon over enemies in close quarters circumstances.

Evolution of Metal · Nov 15, 2019

Doomg0d · Nov 15, 2019

Good to see this studio keeping up their blind devotion in fucking with the very few things that are perfectly fine. It warms my heart knowing they put so much attention into more unneeded TTK changes and spotting mechanics and still can't enable a basic team balancer, and assignments that auto track/update.

SapientWolf · Nov 15, 2019

pj- said:
Well there's a blue or green icon over every single friendly, plus icons over spotted enemies.. It doesn't seem that drastic to put an icon over enemies in close quarters circumstances.

I was thinking more along the lines of enemy spot icons rather than player icons in general.

BFV is probably the most rewarding BF game when it comes to stealth. You can quietly take down a whole squad with knives if you're slick enough. Confusion can be a useful tool for cunning players rather than a rough edge that has to be aggressively sanded down.

Maybe as a compromise the prone campers can get the icons while the mobile players do not.

iRAWRasaurus · Nov 15, 2019

Meh I am against the auto spot and TTK change. Hopefully DICE wont change those..

CelestialAtom · Nov 15, 2019

I just want DICE to cut back on tanks in maps, as I'm so tired of assholes camping in tanks far back in big maps blasting flag points.

pj- · Nov 15, 2019

SapientWolf said:
I was thinking more along the lines of enemy spot icons rather than player icons in general.

BFV is probably the most rewarding BF game when it comes to stealth. You can quietly take down a whole squad with knives if you're slick enough. Confusion can be a useful tool for cunning players rather than a rough edge that has to be aggressively sanded down.

Maybe as a compromise the prone campers can get the icons while the mobile players do not.

If it makes you feel any better one of the community managers on reddit said they are a stealth flanker and the internal testing of 5.2 hasn't affected their play style

I'm not positive that the spotting will improve the game but I am willing to give it a try.

The BTK nerfs on the other hand..

Trisc · Nov 15, 2019

Those BTK nerfs will result in indirect buffs through reducing the viability of specific archetypes past certain ranges. It's a good change if done right, and will result in a lot more weapon variety on maps with longer engagement ranges.

Se_7_eN · Nov 15, 2019

WTF... Those acquisition icons are TERRIBLE.

Who could possibly think that is a good idea?

Hystzen · Nov 15, 2019

Looks like smoke is going back to being useless with this acquisition shit

Deleted member 31817 · Nov 15, 2019

Se_7_eN said:
WTF... Those acquisition icons are TERRIBLE.

Who could possibly think that is a good idea?

Lmao

Olengie · Nov 15, 2019

Triscuitable said:
Those BTK nerfs will result in indirect buffs through reducing the viability of specific archetypes past certain ranges. It's a good change if done right, and will result in a lot more weapon variety on maps with longer engagement ranges.

we'll see.

Avitus · Nov 15, 2019

Se_7_eN said:
WTF... Those acquisition icons are TERRIBLE.

Who could possibly think that is a good idea?

Zero fucking mention of team balance.

Starting to think the franchise needs to go to a new studio based on their MP 'efforts' to date beyond the actual content made.

10 bullets at 20m for the Thompson is hilariously bad. The 20 round mag won't even be usable.

Crumpo · Nov 15, 2019

ShadowKingpin said:
I just want DICE to cut back on tanks in maps, as I'm so tired of assholes camping in tanks far back in big maps blasting flag points.

If you'd had said this last week I'd have told you to do one; adding in lots of tanks has made the Pacific maps feel much more like Battlefield. Today, however, I ragequit for the first time in months when some douche camped on the squad conquest Pacific Storm map, spamming the US spawn with shells. couldn't even get off the starting island. Fuck tanks and fuck squad conquest.

PeskyToaster · Nov 15, 2019

ShadowKingpin said:
I just want DICE to cut back on tanks in maps, as I'm so tired of assholes camping in tanks far back in big maps blasting flag points.

I just want them to go back to the previous way of vehicle spawns. I don't see any improvement with the current way and it hurts vehicle balance. Also it's awesome as hell to see a bunch of vehicles on the field rolling out. If the reasoning was about like camping and vehicles getting destroyed I don't think it was that big of an issue tbh. It rarely got that bad in my vast experience, just need a smarter way to protect the spawn.

Ostron · Nov 15, 2019

Overall this should reduce the immediate cognitive load of having to scan the environment too much.

That's one hell of a euphemism for "dumbing it down".

Avitus · Nov 15, 2019

Ostron said:
That's one hell of a euphemism for "dumbing it down".

Someone at DICE is convinced the game is unpopular because it's not dumb or easy enough, when every other popular shooter is even less forgiving. It's not popular because it had no content for nearly a year and is still missing basic things like mid round team balancing and private servers.

RNG · Nov 15, 2019

Avitus said:
Zero fucking mention of team balance.

Starting to think the franchise needs to go to a new studio based on their MP 'efforts' to date beyond the actual content made.

10 bullets at 20m for the Thompson is hilariously bad. The 20 round mag won't even be usable.

Yeah what's up with no mention of team balancing. Thank god we're getting Community Servers finally.

RNG · Nov 15, 2019

Se_7_eN said:
WTF... Those acquisition icons are TERRIBLE.

Who could possibly think that is a good idea?

Like I said, the distance is waaay too long and you don't even have to directly look at someone to spot. Looks broken asf.

pj- · Nov 15, 2019

The TTK changes were so poorly revealed.

"Good news, we're making all of your favorite guns worse! Check out these charts!"

The post has extremely vague explanations for why the changes were necessary. "healthier gameplay on the objectives"?? The best part of the game currently is playing the objectives. If they think it's "unhealthy", they need to explain why and maybe have a chart or two to support it.

Avitus · Nov 15, 2019

Team balance is single largest issue remaining in the game.

Servers empty because people get stomped and then it continues for 6+ maps because the 'scramble' isn't very good. People don't like to lose over and over again, especially when it's not close. I see this the vast majority of the time on PC. The game will add players A/B style until one team is full, then it will start awarding players to the disadvantaged team. It's really, really fucking broken when you're down 5-10 guys because they're tired of losing. The cycle just repeats itself from there.

With the 'on demand' server spooling, they figured they'd have enough player throughput that there wouldn't really ever be drastic differences, but it still happens. And the end of round scramble is completely worthless.

Players could solve this by being sporting and team switching (which they did in previous games when asked), but DICE took that away because it negatively impacts balance, as if what we have now is better.

Olengie · Nov 15, 2019

"We all heard you guys want team balancing, but here's BTK/TTK changes instead!"

No one asked for BTK/TTK changes. DICE wants to do it.

Everyone asks for Team Balancing. DICE doesn't want to do it.

Maybe people don't want to use specific guns because it doesn't suit their playstyle? Or they just don't like the gun?

TheClaw7667 · Nov 15, 2019

I figured DICE would go back to icons over enemies' heads for the next Battlefield as the complaining about visibility has never been this bad in a Battlefield game. After playing the Modern Warfare beta I thought they'd try to do something similar to what that game does but I didn't think we'd see it so damn soon or in BFV at all.

My initial impression before playing with the new changes is I don't like it but I'll have to wait until I can play the game with these changes to see if it makes a big difference. I always thought a good middle ground for the people that want 3d spotting back and those that don't is instead of allowing the whole server to see spotted enemies only allow a squad to spot enemies for each other. Which would encourage people to play with their squads a lot more and prevent the doritos spam we saw in BF3,4,1.

Ostron · Nov 15, 2019

I'm cautiously optimistic regarding the TTK-re-balance. A lot of players won't be happy, like last time, but I'm one of the seemingly few that didn't mind the change back then. I also didn't want the visibility change, but the community embraced that so, eh. More bullets to kill without changing the gunplay in other ways will reward accurate players, in my opinion that's not a bad thing. It widens the gap between the player that can land 4 bodyshots and ones that can land 3 headshots. It doesn't really matter in the long run. It was pretty much the only period of the game when bolt action rifles were balanced compared to other weapon types!

That said I'm very surprised that they're bringing it back given how it turned out last time. With the horrid spotting I suspect they want core players to stick to community servers with "old" rules while official servers will serve as the kiddy pool. I think they see their chance here. The only way to help the guys running around with negative K/Ds is if the good players go away someplace else, so a migration might be the only way to make it "fun" for them.

On a positive note I've been wanting the "spotted" notification since launch, so there's something to be happy about!

Gero · Nov 15, 2019

Se_7_eN said:
WTF... Those acquisition icons are TERRIBLE.

Who could possibly think that is a good idea?

I know right? Its ridiculous.

SpottieO · Nov 15, 2019

Leveling up planes feels impossible when everyone else has more upgrades than you. I just get melted up there.

Charcoal · Nov 15, 2019

What they did to the BAR in BF1 still hurts

kratos2412 · Nov 15, 2019

Seems like the player counts are low after removing doritos lmao.

Im testing the game again if patch 5.2 drops.

Dodgerfan74 · Nov 15, 2019

Doomg0d said:
Good to see this studio keeping up their blind devotion in fucking with the very few things that are perfectly fine. It warms my heart knowing they put so much attention into more unneeded TTK changes and spotting mechanics and still can't enable a basic team balancer, and assignments that auto track/update.

Wow, Dice, when the perception of the game finally starts to turn you fuck it all up again. Every part of this update seems insane, just utterly insane. Everything about BFV desperately screams for the need for new studio management.

giallo · Nov 15, 2019

Oh my. That's......not a good look. Why in god's name did they do this?

Avitus · Nov 15, 2019

giallo said:
Oh my. That's......not a good look. Why in god's name did they do this?

They typically try this bullshit around the holidays because new player retention numbers aren't to their liking

giallo · Nov 15, 2019

Avitus said:
They typically try this bullshit around the holidays because new player retention numbers aren't to their liking

Ah. Well, it's never a good idea to spite the people that have stuck by you, and this addition, as we've seen here, has done just that.

Avitus · Nov 15, 2019

giallo said:
Ah. Well, it's never a good idea to spite the people that have stuck by you, and this addition, as we've seen here, has done just that.

Unforced errors are a DICE tradition. It's a sign of bad/scattershot leadership. Someone, somewhere needs to make the call that "No, actually, we have better things to work on and the community doesn't want this anytime soon."

Spotting Flare/Minimap change = good, useful QoL fix
LOL GUN BALANCE I GUESS? = nobody asked for this

They aren't going to go through and massage accuracy values, reload times, specializations etc... so a bunch of guns and builds will instantly become nonviable if that TTK change goes through, just like last time. The person(s) pushing for this sort of thing need to be reigned in. The game can't even bask in the glow of the Pacific for five minutes before DICE fumbles.

kratos2412 · Nov 15, 2019

giallo said:
Ah. Well, it's never a good idea to spite the people that have stuck by you, and this addition, as we've seen here, has done just that.

Maybe these people have made the game even worse. So they even lost a bigger pool of people with BFV.

Patch isnt even live. Jesus

Dodgerfan74 · Nov 15, 2019

Olengie said:
"We all heard you guys want team balancing, but here's BTK/TTK changes instead!"

No one asked for BTK/TTK changes. DICE wants to do it.

Everyone asks for Team Balancing. DICE doesn't want to do it.

Maybe people don't want to use specific guns because it doesn't suit their playstyle? Or they just don't like the gun?

Always ignore years-long complaints while throwing wild, untested tweaks at your playerbase.

ShadowKingpin said:
I just want DICE to cut back on tanks in maps, as I'm so tired of assholes camping in tanks far back in big maps blasting flag points.

Who doesn't love fighting people who refuse to enter the playable area and retreat in terror the second an opponent does even the smallest amount of damage to them? It's both fun and rewarding.

elenarie · Nov 15, 2019

Some action based on feedback from the thread: shooting spotting flares now gives score. :)

Keep sending that feedback! :p

Avitus · Nov 15, 2019

elenarie said:
Some action based on feedback from the thread: shooting spotting flares now gives score. :)

Keep sending that feedback! :p

Is there any news with regards to mid/end of round balancing that you can share? Seriously feels like the biggest thing holding the game back after the nice Pacific update.

First Person Shooter · Nov 15, 2019

IDK what the hell is going on at DICE but they really need to drop this idiotic urge to ~~tweak~~ ruin the gunplay just before the holiday seasons.

For all guns except the SMGs the gunplay has already deteriorated since launch. Stop messing with it, please!

Keasar · Nov 15, 2019

Ran into a cheater. Motherfucker was openly bragging even about it. :/

This is insane...

Jaaake · Nov 15, 2019

Just saw Jack Frag's newest video

are DICE really fucking with the TTK again? Literally who asked for this?????

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