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Author of "The Making of Star Wars: The Force Awakens" believes that his book was canceled because it would have made the production look like a mess
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
OP
OP
Him = the student, right? The student betrayed Luke, who is a good Force user. So the student logically turned to the dark unless you want to imply "grey Jedi" shenanigans.
This is Star Wars, the original movie basically was one big mistake that almost accidentally happened in editing and post. That's the history of this series, it should be embraced not a source of shame.
The entire trilogy was a mess because there was never a true unified vision and there was absolutely a rush to get these films out and make Star Wars a yearly brand as soon as Disney got their hands on it. They should have had a plan for the entire trilogy with the same writers and directors on board from the start. The problem is The Force Awakens barely came together and didn't actually do the best job establishing a whole lot to work with for future films other than "HEY STAR WARS IS BACK AND WE HAVE SOME VAGUE THREADS THAT CAN BE PULLED ON." Then Rian Johnson comes in and largely does his own thing while it feels very disjointed with much of what JJ Abrams set up in The Force Awakens, but he goes some interesting places and sets them up for better resolution moving forward in a good, albeit very flawed movie but still doesn't really explore things enough. And then Rise of Skywalker is just a damage control train wreck of a film that saw Trevorrow and company not come to any reasonable agreement before firing him and putting JJ Abrams back in the director seat for a film that desperately needed to be delayed. \
Overall, I'm not surprised in the least bit to hear more of this whole production cycle being an absolute mess because they were plainly rushed and also built far too heavily on reacting to audience reception rather than telling a cohesive narrative across three movies.
Overall, I'm not surprised in the least bit to hear more of this whole production cycle being an absolute mess because they were plainly rushed and also built far too heavily on reacting to audience reception rather than telling a cohesive narrative across three movies.
It just needed to be a good film that people enjoyed. The Force Awakens technically achieved that, but it absolutely did not have to be the film we ended up getting too.
No. I'm talking about Luke. Isn't that who you're talking about ?
You can't make lightning strike twice, let alone 3+ times though. Imagine how LotR would've turned out if Peter Jackson just winged it after Fellowship and didn't have a solid plan in mind for Two Towers and RotK.
Oh wait, we don't have to imagine, because we have The Hobbit Trilogy to compare (not PJs fault to be fair).
OP
OP
No, I was talking about the student. This is the post I was replying to (important part bolded):
Yup. Everything about the film/marketing was hitting the right notes to the larger audiences.
Like remember the reactions to the fact that they were gonna use a lot of practical effects and shoot on location again? That wouldn't be a big deal now but it was a HUGE deal in 2013-4
OP
OP
People keep saying there needed to be a plan from the start, but if there was, TLJ likely wouldn't have been the same.
I think the real problem was the release schedule, which was way too fast (although in practice that would have harmed TLJ too, since Fisher would have possibly died before shooting is finished).
I think the real problem was the release schedule, which was way too fast (although in practice that would have harmed TLJ too, since Fisher would have possibly died before shooting is finished).
The worst part was that they had already "remade" the throne room from RotJ with a satisfying enough twist where Kylo wasn't redeemed.I mean...
We get the Emperor telling the young hero to strike him down in anger, the young Skywalker he once corrupted redeeming himself and dying, a victory montage including Endor and Bespin.
The whole movie isn't ROTJ 2, but the third act is.
...and then they end up in another throne room so he can be redeemed for real this time.
OP
OP
And it literally rehashed rejected concept art from ROTJ
Yeah, if you look back at the old place or anywhere really, these simple on set videos seeing real sets, puppets, and also shooting on film got people so hyped. It was a major, major deal. The nostalgia for the prequels was nothing close to what it is today, people clearly wanted a return to the old style. No matter how IX turned out I still think JJ Abrams did an amazing job especially given the short of amount of time he had between being chosen as director and principal photography, and JJ + Lawrence Kasdan was a winning combo.
Exactly, the throne room scene had already been done but in a far more interesting way and with a twist.
Kind of like how IX ends on watching a sunset when TLJ already had Luke watching the sunset while dying and ended on the kid looking up to the stars.
OP
OP
This practical alien is in the film for like 3 seconds :( I was so excited before release
Absolutely. But Disney is a soulless megacorp that demands everything be sanitized and edited to perfection so that it fits the Disney brand image.
Eh, TFA is a case study in fanservice wankery imo. Good to please uberfans because it kicks them right in the nostalgia and they are looking to love it anyway, and new fans don't realize they're watching a lukewarm regurgitation of previous concepts. TRoS was the natural conclusion of TFA despite the best efforts made in TLJ to course correct into something new.
The Force Awakens, while messy, nails it from a character stand point as Rey, Kylo, Finn and Poe were easily enough to continue forward with. I understand the complaints about the "beat for beat" nature, but JJ set the table.
If I think it did one thing "wrong" it was ending at that moment it did, as it essentially forced Rian Johnson to pick up TLJ immediately after TFA... which is a little hand-tying narratively.
If I think it did one thing "wrong" it was ending at that moment it did, as it essentially forced Rian Johnson to pick up TLJ immediately after TFA... which is a little hand-tying narratively.
That was really only with Rey, though, right? I mean they could very easily have smash cut to six months of training later if they wanted to.
Disney's take on Star Wars has been a case study in mismanagement. There was no cohesive vision, you had a total of 8 writers all playing broken telephone with themselves, management and a story group with an unclear role. You had films rushed out within an impossible timeframe forcing directors to have their vision in place before the hype died down and the consensus was formed on the prior film. You went through 4 directors on these movies. 3 of them fired or sidelined in the middle of their fucking movies. The only film without strife between director and executives got stars Mark Hamill and John Boyega mad and disappointed. Oh, and a shit ton of fans angry too.
You threw out three treatments by George Lucas which made him mad and then tried to wing it. The Mandalorian went well but the other two live action shows are in development hell. The comics are hit or miss. The EU was killed for narrative cohesion yet all 3 movies in the ST have gaping continuity holes. The toys are lining my local hardware store's 99 cents bin. The games, while good in quality were subject to EA's greed.
What happened here? Say what you will about Lucas. He took his time, he had a vision, he helped the EU flourish with some of the best SW stories ever (look at KOTOR) and kept Star Wars an event. By the time TROS came out, I didn't even go to see it.
I don't want to play armchair CEO here, but screw it. Maybe they should take their time, push the movie back to 2023/24. Give 3 years between. Oh, and have a fucking vision. Finish the TV shows you are working on but don't greenlight anymore. Favour quality over quantity and ensure each thing released is up to par. Otherwise, the brand is gonna die quicker than expected.
Look at what 343 is doing with Halo. They knew 5 was divisive so they took time to rework the next game and let feedback settle.
You threw out three treatments by George Lucas which made him mad and then tried to wing it. The Mandalorian went well but the other two live action shows are in development hell. The comics are hit or miss. The EU was killed for narrative cohesion yet all 3 movies in the ST have gaping continuity holes. The toys are lining my local hardware store's 99 cents bin. The games, while good in quality were subject to EA's greed.
What happened here? Say what you will about Lucas. He took his time, he had a vision, he helped the EU flourish with some of the best SW stories ever (look at KOTOR) and kept Star Wars an event. By the time TROS came out, I didn't even go to see it.
I don't want to play armchair CEO here, but screw it. Maybe they should take their time, push the movie back to 2023/24. Give 3 years between. Oh, and have a fucking vision. Finish the TV shows you are working on but don't greenlight anymore. Favour quality over quantity and ensure each thing released is up to par. Otherwise, the brand is gonna die quicker than expected.
Look at what 343 is doing with Halo. They knew 5 was divisive so they took time to rework the next game and let feedback settle.
A director simply having a vision in place and executing it without being concerned about fan reception over the previous film was The Last Jedi. Being overly concerned about responding to the fan reception and the last movie apparently being divisive got us Rise of Skywalker.
The Last Jedi was the anti-safe though. Tons of people complained about how TFA took too little risks. TLJ was an overcorrection IMO. Rian did finish his draft before though.
Either way, neither had the chance for a consensus to form before they jumped in head first to the next film. These shouldn't have been 2 years apart. Too many easy ways out were taken.
If all it took to please people was fanservice then TROS would have succeeded as a film when it came to reception. TROS failed when it came to the characters. So none of the fanservice resonated. Meanwhile, TFA absolutely nailed the characters and that's what made that film resonate with audiences at the end of the day, because that's always been the most important part of SW.
Regarding the bolded and underlined you're talking about the people who watched the OG SW film right? Because SW has ALWAYS been a combination of previous concepts for a mainstream audience.
Filming started on TROS well after TLJ released, August 2018, almost a year later. And again, I don't know why these should wait for and be so heavily influenced by fan reception. Last Jedi was the natural next step for the characters and Rise of Skywalker seemed to be overly concerned with making fans and specifically people who disliked the last film happy. Rey Skywalker, Rose being sidelined, a big bad in the place of Snoke, etc. I think a lot of TLJ critics these days can at least respect it these days for having a singular artist's vision and being confident about it.
IMO the problem with the movie was firing Colin and getting JJ so late in the game. Not that I'm necessarily saying that Colin should have been the director but I think the movie should have been lined up with a great script and ready to shoot when TLJ premiered just like how TLJ started filming at the end of 2015 or early 2016.
Disney was quite candid with behind the scenes issues with their theme parks in the Imagineering Story on Disney+, though, though the big asterisk there is that the documentary only went over struggles and issues of the pre-Iger eras.
Disney was its own worst enemy. They bought Star Wars for a sweet heart deal but then the Stockholder obligations kicked in. They needed to make a return on that Star Wars investment. So full speed ahead! Damned the torpedoes! and they rushed right in. Then they did it again with Episode 9 having learned nothing about giving the films proper time to be developed and cooked.
Source for this? I've heard Kershner say in interviews that he made Lucas promise to give him freedom to make the movie he wanted to make. Did he not follow though?
From The Secret History of Star Wars Michael Kaminski. I have it on audible and its great,
Not that im calling force awakens on par with those movies but sometimes a fucking mess of a production doesnt bode poorly for the final product, for instance Apocalypse Now and Mad Max 4
Hell with the latter even some of the cast had no faith in what was happening.
I wish disney allowed for this to come out. Force Awakens wasnt a disaster at all on release. And it would be nice to read about the challenges they faced getting there. Maybe in a few years...
Hell with the latter even some of the cast had no faith in what was happening.
I wish disney allowed for this to come out. Force Awakens wasnt a disaster at all on release. And it would be nice to read about the challenges they faced getting there. Maybe in a few years...