At what point were people chomping at the bit to eschew traditional Legend of Zelda in favor of something radically different?

[BY2K]

I never got tired of Zelda. BOTW is a welcomed breath (heh) of fresh air, but ALBW proved that any fatigue just needed a bit of innovation.

Just please bring back traditional dungeons in BOTW2... it's like the ONE weakness of BOTW1.

 

[Glio]

The inherent problem with classic Zelda is that there are a limited number of different dungeons you can do while maintaining the same structure. When the time came, the order in which you had played them mattered more than any other factor.

Skyward Sword is peak classic dungeon design and yet almost everything you have seen before.

 

[logash]

I love traditional Zelda dungeons and even found a way to love Skyward Sword. Still, I did feel like that game was the one that made me think they needed to mix it up.

 

[mael]

I was ready for something else by the time I was finished with Majora's Mask personally.
Heck it's why I skipped Wind Waker initially and how I expected so much more from Twilight Princess.

I still like good games so I gladly played most of them.
Special highlight to the DS games and LBW, they are full of elements I would love to see come back.
Heck the way the DS games just allowed you to draw your own notes is something I would love every games to have.

 

[balohna]

I was hyped for Twilight Princess beyond hype I'd ever had for anything before and then it was... fine. Made me think the series needed a shake up.

Skyward Sword had better dungeons IMO, but had worse other stuff. I would love if BOTW2 sees a return to traditional dungeons with a BOTW-style world and systemic gameplay. Especially if they take a note from ALBW's dungeon design and drop the whole "get an item halfway through" formula.

 

[RoadDogg]

Never for me, I wish they would keep it simple and go back. Pretty much everything after Twilight Princess has been bad except for ALBW, which was great because they didn't stray that far from the proven formula or add in unnecessary control gimmicks. I'm kind of glad that I skipped the WW and TP remakes on WiiU so I can hopefully get them on Switch and have a good Zelda game to play since I know BotW2 won't be for me.

 

[GamerJM]

My recollection of why this happened was not due to any issue with the Zelda games specifically, but rather a pretty big shift in AAA game design that dates back to Grand Theft Auto III. In the N64 days, Ocarina of Time was one of the most ambitious adventures in a game you could have on a console, in terms of the scope of what it was. At least some of the people who bought and enjoyed the game liked it primarily for this reason. During the sixth generation of consoles, the PS2 GTA games and Morrowind were examples of bigger, more ambitious, more open adventure games that were available on consoles.

I think Oblivion was the real tipping point. When that game was the first "next-gen" 360 game that was a big deal, and it was a big, open fantasy adventure that lots of people played, I think that led a lot of people to ask "man, why can't we have a Zelda like this?". Then years later, Skyrim coming out next to Skyward Sword, which was the antithesis of that sort of game design, I think solidified people's desires.

 

[Ryuelli]

Botw's dungeons are better than WW's, they are short yes but their puzzles are far more fun. There isn't a single complex puzzle or interesting progression pathway for any of the dungeons in WW, the best dungeon in the game is a dumbed down water temple from OoT. Compare that to all the other 3D zeldas where there's some layout manipulation going on in at least 1 of the dungeons.

Click to shrink...

The most enjoyable part of dungeons for me is their visual variety (which is the same reason shrines wore off on me very, very quickly), so I disagree.

 

[Deleted member 81119]

My recollection of why this happened was not due to any issue with the Zelda games specifically, but rather a pretty big shift in AAA game design that dates back to Grand Theft Auto III. In the N64 days, Ocarina of Time was one of the most ambitious adventures in a game you could have on a console, in terms of the scope of what it was. At least some of the people who bought and enjoyed the game liked it primarily for this reason. During the sixth generation of consoles, the PS2 GTA games and Morrowind were examples of bigger, more ambitious, more open adventure games that were available on consoles.

I think Oblivion was the real tipping point. When that game was the first "next-gen" 360 game that was a big deal, and it was a big, open fantasy adventure that lots of people played, I think that led a lot of people to ask "man, why can't we have a Zelda like this?". Then years later, Skyrim coming out next to Skyward Sword, which was the antithesis of that sort of game design, I think solidified people's desires.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I think this is right. Twilight Princess was a tad formulaic. And in comparison, there were already games like Morrowind, Dragon Quest VIII, FFXII and San Andreas that were pushing boundaries. But it wasn't like it was super behind the times. It just wasn't cutting edge any more. By the time Skyward Sword came out the series really felt like it was from a different era.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I never got tired of Zelda. BOTW is a welcomed breath (heh) of fresh air, but ALBW proved that any fatigue just needed a bit of innovation.

Just please bring back traditional dungeons in BOTW2... it's like the ONE weakness of BOTW1.

Click to shrink...

This is where I land. I love all the Zeldas. Where I want evolution is from Link and Zelda as characters.

 

[Aether]

Skyward Sword for me, pretty sure that's because it's also the worst one though

Click to shrink...

That one. Add to that the DS ones, and i was on my last leg with the Series. ALBW gave me hope that they
understood what was going wrong after they already mentioned that they are rethinking the conventions, and then we got BotW.

 

[Crayon]

I don't know about other people, but for me it was when the world was raving about twilight princess. The game wasn't particularly great but people seemed to be going through the motions praising it the way nintendo was making it.

 

[Eppcetera]

I started wanting a shake-up while playing through Twilight Princess. Link to the Past was basically my first Zelda, so I had no other frame of reference at the time. Ocarina of Time brought 3D dungeon design into the series, so it all felt new again. Majora's Mask has superb dungeon design and a ton of new features to shake up the mechanics introduced in Ocarina of Time. Honestly, I probably started getting a little tired of the traditional dungeons and structure in Wind Waker, but I was maybe too young to realize it, and the Great Sea and its exploration provided an interesting sense of novelty to distract me.

Twilight Princess mainly has Wolf Link as its new gimmick, and Wolf Link doesn't offer much new and is barely used in the second half, anyway. So, for me, Twilight Princess felt like "been there, done that," and I thought Ocarina of Time did pretty much everything that I value better. The dungeons in Twilight Princess look and sound great, but their puzzles and bosses are absurdly easy, and they're a far cry from what I consider the series' best. I felt similarly about Skyward Sword: dungeons look and sound great, but I got the sense of "been there, done that" and they were generally too easy (I was impressed by the Sandship, in particular, though). Unfortunately, Skyward Sword had a new gimmick I disliked (motion controls) and an incredibly linear and padded-out game structure.

As a result, Breath of the Wild offered the kind of changes I'd been wanting in the series. As much as I love Breath of the Wild, I wouldn't call it perfect, and I'm excited to see what Nintendo produces next (I should probably mention that I like every game I mentioned in this post, including Skyward Sword).

 

[Lobster Roll]

Oh look, another thread where people with bad taste shit on Skyward Sword for no reason.
I mean, fantastic dungeons, great art direction, fresh gameplay ideas and an interesting story to boot but no no no, it doesn't have an interconnected overworld, oh the horror!!!
SS is factually better than TP and WW which were just about ok.

Click to shrink...

People are allowed to feel differently about the game than you. That's how opinions work, and it's got nothing to do with "taste" lol.

 

[Axumar]

I think it's a whole host of reasons but I agree it started with Twilight Princess.

For me personally, it started with how Wind Waker abandoned all challenge. I don't mean in a souls combat sense, more in a puzzles/dungeons/bosses urgency sense. I go back to play OoT or MM and the challenge is there. I found WW and TP are extremely on the easy side. Funny enough, SS addressed this a bit and raised the level of challenge. However, I also hated the motion controls so there was no saving that one for me.

I love BotW. I felt it did everything right. Some challenge, and a new formula. I felt burnt out at the end and disliked the weapons durability but that game is designed like a dream and I just went and finished it. I love it.

 

[AIan]

Oh look, another thread where people with bad taste shit on Skyward Sword for no reason.
I mean, fantastic dungeons, great art direction, fresh gameplay ideas and an interesting story to boot but no no no, it doesn't have an interconnected overworld, oh the horror!!!
SS is factually better than TP and WW which were just about ok.

Click to shrink...

While this post screams hyperbole, people have just brought up minor "reasons" on why they think TP and SS suck, which comes across as a logical disconnect (mind you, I haven't played either but have always wanted to).

Does TP having plenty of tutorials ruin the game? That seems like quite a stretch.

 

[Nali]

Zelda lives and dies by the quality of its overworld, and the series spent a decade post-N64 having increasingly dreadful ones.

 

[Lobster Roll]

While this post screams hyperbole, people have just brought up minor "reasons" on why they think TP and SS suck, which comes across as a logical disconnect (mind you, I haven't played either but have always wanted to).

Does TP having plenty of tutorials ruin the game? That seems like quite a stretch.

Click to shrink...

Pretty bold to opine on peoples' experiences with the games when you've never touched them yourself. And for people like myself, the reasons for disliking Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are based upon the core design choices made for each. It's not a minor reason but rather the entire player interaction of exploring and progressing through the world that makes me dislike it.

 

[Adathir]

Personally I was quite happy with the way Zelda was already going. I feel there were some low points with SS and the two DS titles. I would have rather seen the series stick closer to what it was than go the route of BotW.

 

[ReyVGM]

By the time I finished Twilight Princess, I realized that the formula needed to change. I didn't even buy Skyward Sword. Still haven't played it.

Click to shrink...

SS has the best dungeons after OoT, so definitely play the remaster at least.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

Never did, especially since Skywar Sword is the best game in the series.

 

[Khanimus]

Twilight Princess was this really bizarre retread through sets from OOT, but with none of the charm of those places. The only place that 'popped' was the fucking Malo Mart.

 

[Nessus]

Only problem I had with Twilight Princess was how empty the overworld felt. There were a few bright spots like the bridge duel, but the game needed way more of that kind of thing, and just more to do in the overworld and more opportunities to use the items you got from dungeons in the overworld.

Skyward felt structurally compromised. Splitting the overworld up into the sky, and then 3 or 4 ground sections ruined the flow of things. The entire game should have been in the sky, with larger floating islands, more areas like the thunderhead, floating lakes like globes of water you could dive into and explore, etc. It should have taken more cues from the structure of Wind Waker's overworld with dozens of cool tiny islands to discover and explore. It's a shame cause the sand ship is one of my all time favorite Zelda dungeons and gameplay mechanics.

 

[Zeal543]

The most enjoyable part of dungeons for me is their visual variety (which is the same reason shrines wore off on me very, very quickly), so I disagree.

Click to shrink...

Fair enough, I won't argue

 

[Leafshield]

After Twilight Princess. Then we got Phantom Hourglass, Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks, all of which were packed with fresh ideas but none of which I want to replay for one reason or another. The series didn't recover until Link Between Worlds for me.

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

My recollection of why this happened was not due to any issue with the Zelda games specifically, but rather a pretty big shift in AAA game design that dates back to Grand Theft Auto III. In the N64 days, Ocarina of Time was one of the most ambitious adventures in a game you could have on a console, in terms of the scope of what it was. At least some of the people who bought and enjoyed the game liked it primarily for this reason. During the sixth generation of consoles, the PS2 GTA games and Morrowind were examples of bigger, more ambitious, more open adventure games that were available on consoles.

I think Oblivion was the real tipping point. When that game was the first "next-gen" 360 game that was a big deal, and it was a big, open fantasy adventure that lots of people played, I think that led a lot of people to ask "man, why can't we have a Zelda like this?". Then years later, Skyrim coming out next to Skyward Sword, which was the antithesis of that sort of game design, I think solidified people's desires.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, as far as public perception of the franchise goes, I think this is right. Ocarina of Time at the N64 was cutting edge for a console game. Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword weren't. TP felt too much like a rethread of OoT, while SS paled in comparison to what other fantasy games were doing at the time.

Meanwhile, Breath of the Wild felt cutting edge again, mostly by taking the modern conventions that games like the Elder Scrolls franchise introduced before, but either refining them further or giving it's own spin on them.

Personally, I can't say I ever felt "Zelda fatigue" per se. There were definitely things in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword that I found grating or repetitive, but the games still did so many things right or novel in some other respect that I ultimately ended liking all of them.

Breath of the Wild was still a nice change of pace and I love it's over world design and completely open progression, even if I also miss the more intricate and thematically varied dungeons of prior entries.

I'm definitely looking forward to what the sequel will do.

 

[Xwing]

Personally, I never got burned out on "traditional Zelda". Loved Twilight Princess, adored Skyward Sword.

However, Breath of the Wild was a sea change and I absolutely enjoyed the change of pace.

In retrospect, I think Skyward Sword was pretty much the limit on pure linear design for the franchise, carried strongly by puzzle design and story beats. With weaker puzzles or weaker characters/emotion, it definitely would have dragged for me in the second half. Even as strong as Skyward Sword was, the Imprisoned fights were a sign that over-repetition did not suit the linear nature of the traditional formula. The repetitive boss fights in Breath of the Wild are often more easily forgiven due to the player setting the pace between those fights or even choosing to skip some of them entirely.

As much as some still wrongly hate on Skyward Sword, even they have to admit we would not have gotten to Breath of the Wild without it.

I'm really hoping Breath of the Wild 2 gives us some more linear game segments with Zelda underground.

 

[Wes D. Mess]

Started with TP. It was the first time I ever struggled to finish a Zelda game due to how bored I was. I literally got to the final dungeon and contemplated dropping the game.

Then boring ass Phantom Hourglass/ Spirit Tracks came along and had me wishing I never spent money on them.

Then Skyward Sword came. I actually liked it more than TP but after I finished the game I thought that I had outgrown Zelda and had no intention of playing future games.

Thankfully, BOTW came along reignited that love I had.

 

[The Unsent]

All I want is BOTW 2 to have better dungeons and a better story, I've seen it use as a fallacy to say people who have criticisms for BotW can't handle a shake up to the traditional formula.

 

[alpha]

Twilight Princess. Jesus, that game might as well have not even existed in my mind with how unmemorable it was for me. I can't tell you any of the major plot points let alone the minor ones any more other than Link turns into a wolf, Midna existing, and the Zelda boss fight.

 

[KhandoleezzaRice]

Skyward Sword dropped the ball in tailoring the game to what people wanted. Consider that between Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword we had the likes of Demon Souls, Assassins Creed 2, Uncharted 2, and Batman: Arkham Asylum. Consider that in the same month that Skyward Sword released we also got Uncharted 3, Dark Souls, Saints Row the 3rd, and Skyrim. I love Skyward Sword but a linear game with bad pacing that asked for more hand eye coordination than normal is not what people wanted or had the dexterity to play.

I agree with the consensus that it started with Twilight Princess but in hindsight I would say Wind Waker suffers a lot of the same problems that Twilight Princess does. Wind Waker came out very early in the generation though and maintained itself as a technical showpiece pretty much all the way through. You can get away with incremental updates 4 years after a genre defining release but 8 years after when Twilight Princess came out it became a little stale considering how interesting some other devs were taking their third person action/adventure games.

 

[Deleted member 10795]

Any point, I guess? I've played several Zelda game and never truly enjoyed any of them, but it was a series I wanted to like and my heart was open to one day doing so.

I don't even like open world games either, so I'm not sure specifically what it is about BotW, but they nailed it for me. It's the only Zelda game I've ever truly enjoyed, finished and replayed.

 

[MondoMega]

3D Zelda fell off after Wind Waker for me (though I appreciated Skyward Sword a little more after replaying it via the HD remaster, i'd still say it and Twilight Princess are the lowest points); so Breath of the Wild was the breath of fresh air the series needed. Best 3D installment since Majora's Mask.

 

[Enduin]

I remember in the leadup to TP having long discussions online about things we wanted to see from the series that were a bit radical and in the vein of what we saw in BotW, though probably not nearly as grand as our mindset was still very firmly in that OoT formula and style, but we knew that things needed to change on that front, especially when it came to some of the handholding and rigidity to the game's structure. But SS dramatically spread that feeling to what felt like everyone.

 

[Fat4all]

twilight princess was interesting, but it was also dreadfully slow to start and had a terrible pace from dungeon to dungeon

also i felt like where twilight princess and skyward sword tripped up, Link Between Worlds exceeded

LBW felt like a great balance between exploration and pacing thanks to how it dished out items and story

sometimes i feel like all the zelda games ever needed was an interesting twist on the formula, like going from ocarina to majora

you could say that the wolf form was the twist to TP, but how it was utilized in the game made some combat more novel, but exploration less so

going through areas almost fully back-to-back just felt plodding to me

 

[Belphegor]

The dungeons in Twilight Princess are incredibly overrated. Best dungeons in the series my ass. Skyward Sword had more creative and better dungeons yet nobody talks about them. SS had a lot of problems but its dungeons were top tier.

 

[Ssyem]

I thought BOTW was so dull and hate that it was so successful, because we'll never get a return to formula now.

 

[Pyro]

Coming to the internet late, it always seems to be after Twilight Princess for a good chunk of people and a LOT after Skyward Sword.

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

Hm, I don't think I ever personally particularly felt like I was ever chomping at the bit for traditional Zelda to be cast off. I personally never really grew tired of it.

However, between the releases of A Link Between Worlds and Skyward Sword, I just kinda grew excited at the possibility of Zelda successfully experimenting with new design. I actually loved A Link Between Worlds and enjoyed Skyward Sword (though it was not without its faults and most certainly was not my favorite Zelda game). Both of them kinda energized my openness to letting Nintendo experiment.

If Nintendo released another Zelda game in the classic design style, I would not be opposed to it. But I remain open for them to experiment, and even in the wake of my personal enjoyment and expanded perspective on Zelda as a result of A Link Between Worlds and Skyward Sword, Breath of the Wild literally became my favorite game of all time. Despite that fact and personal opinion on Breath of the Wild, I do not remain steadfast in it being the only way a Zelda game should be designed.

The series in general is still one of my favorites in all of gaming, up there with Resident Evil. Part of that is because I've liked a wide range of the design styles its experimented with in its history and part of that is because I've liked that variability enough that Zelda is perceivably a very reliably good series to me, which is similar to how I feel about Resident Evil -- particularly when it comes to arguments about survival horror vs action RE.

If I'm being real for a moment, though -- Twilight Princess is probably my series low point. I still enjoyed the game, but between the early-days motion controls being kinda gimmicky compared to what I actually expected and it feeling just a bit too familiar overall, it fell short of being the kind of definitive swing back to the OoT/MM-esque art style that people cried for after Wind Waker, and despite enjoying Wind Waker a LOT, I was still kind of swept up in the general excitement toward Twilight Princess and I too kinda felt like it was going to be Nintendo kinda delivering a bigger, better style of Zelda game in the mold of OoT. And ... they succeeded but it didn't hit as strongly as I assumed it would. It ultimately felt kinda safe, and more to its detriment than to its benefit IMO. Plus, I just didn't enjoy Wolf Link beyond aesthetics -- mechanically, Wolf Link always felt like a slog IMO.

 

[Blackthorn]

I think it's more a case of Nintendo not wanting to make classic Zelda rather than fans being tired of it. Fans would have happily kept playing "Better Zelda" and would still be today if Nintendo kept making them.

 

[Tesser]

I'm still of the belief that BotW isn't quite the radical change the series has needed/deserved, like so many perceive it to be. If anything (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) but Elden Ring is actually closer to what I hoped/wanted BotW to actually be. Albeit, it too is a game I think is flawed in certain ways.

But to answer the original question: Skyward Sword was so underwhelming for me that after beating it I knew Nintendo had to do something big and bold to keep me interested in the 3D games. A Link Between Worlds I really enjoyed so, at the time, I wasn't particularly worried about smaller-scale Zelda titles going the same way. I think BotW gets about two-thirds of the way there, so here's hoping the sequel rectifies my issues with the copy-paste dungeons/shrines.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

No mainline Zelda has ever felt "stale" nor have I ever really felt pressed for the series to go in a new direction.


HOWEVER,

Breath of the Wild is the best game I have ever played so what the hell do I know?

 

[beansontoast]

Personally I don't think there's ever been a 3D Zelda that wasn't at least decent, but yeah Twilight Princess is where the 3D formula definitely started to get a bit tired. In a vacuum Twilight Princess would be an amazing game, the problem is that in context it is merely good, because Ocarina of Time exists. There is so much that TP wholesale ripped off from OoT, that it becomes hard to be wowed by anything in TP, which is imo not great for a game series that is supposed to be about adventure.

I think BOTW came in at the right time, if there had been one more formulaic OoT game, after SS (where a lot of grumbles became audible), fatigue would have really set in.

I feel that the people that wanted the formula to change are just too vocal about it, i personally still love traditional Zeldas, i just think that TP and SS were a little bit uninspired. I had a blast with A Link Between Worlds and Link's Awakening remake.

Click to shrink...

I think that vocal crowd are a decent representation of the wider audience though. You only have to look at how BOTW has absolutely dwarfed the other 3D Zeldas in sales to be under the impression that the change in formula has reinvigorated the franchise in the eyes of most.

 

[NotLiquid]

It started for me with TP, mainly because it was at that point I realized that Zelda was moving away from the potential of an open adventure that Wind Waker seemed more interested in pursuing and which was the main parts I appreciated about Ocarina of Time. Rather than the series trusting in its open appeal, it settled in on its more guided rigidity. Skyward Sword only doubled down on it.

That's not to say the games are bad or don't have notably redeeming qualities. They're good games at their core, but they just never carried my interest. BOTW captured more of what I wanted out of modern Zelda ever since I was a kid, and then some.

 

[LegendofLex]

Phantom Hourglass was when it started to become super clear that Zelda's puzzle-centric identity had sort of lost the plot from its original open-world action-adventure-RPGlite roots.

Everything up to that point felt like they were still developing an idea that hadn't been fully tapped yet. And then Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword both doubled down on problems with Phantom Hourglass and Twilight Princess. And all at the same time that games like Skyrim and Souls and open-world games in general were on the rise. I'm sure Nintendo looked at the success of these games and wondered how much money they were leaving on the table.

 

[Lylo]

Personally I don't think there's ever been a 3D Zelda that wasn't at least decent, but yeah Twilight Princess is where the 3D formula definitely started to get a bit tired. In a vacuum Twilight Princess would be an amazing game, the problem is that in context it is merely good, because Ocarina of Time exists. There is so much that TP wholesale ripped off from OoT, that it becomes hard to be wowed by anything in TP, which is imo not great for a game series that is supposed to be about adventure.

I think BOTW came in at the right time, if there had been one more formulaic OoT game, after SS (where a lot of grumbles became audible), fatigue would have really set in.



I think that vocal crowd are a decent representation of the wider audience though. You only have to look at how BOTW has absolutely dwarfed the other 3D Zeldas in sales to be under the impression that the change in formula has reinvigorated the franchise in the eyes of most.

Click to shrink...

That might be true, but think BOTW attracted a lot people that wasn't into the Zelda franchise before and was a major turn off for many long time fans. Sure, a lot of fans of the franchise also welcomed the changes in BOTW.

 

[Pheonix]

What is traditional Zelda?

Or aren't they ALL traditional Zelda?

I think the core of pretty much every Zelda game i the same, down to the boss you fight. The weapons you collect, items...etc. Their implementation just varies from game to game.

Guess what I am saying is that all Zelda games feel familiar, most feel very very different. TP was my worst one though. Only Zela I didn't even bother finishing. Stil shocked both SS and TP are over 90 on Metacritic...

 

[milkyway]

When I played skyward sword, I felt like it was a breath of fresh air and slightly preferred it to TP which I enjoyed a lot but felt didn't stand out amongst what came before it. I was shocked to find out that people hated skyward sword. I have never replayed it but felt like the dungeons, puzzle quality, and combat all made it a very fun game, plus a neat narrative. So I never had Zelda fatigue. The closest thing to fatigue I felt was actually Majoras Mask, my most recently played Zelda, but that is most likely because there was a 10 year gap in completing my play through (thanks to a glitchy GameCube port) and me forgetting the key mechanics of time manipulation. The final boss was one of the best experiences I've had with the series though.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Skyward Sword is definitely where I felt the core of 3D Zelda started feeling like something of a relic, an enjoyable relic, but a relic none the less.
And it's an interesting case because I can't fault SS for trying more varied approaches to that core formula than its predecessor, it shifts to a more heavily gameplay first mantra, opting for shifting overworld priorities to more puzzles, more set pieces and leaving the cooldown part entirely for Skyloft, and that's on top of how the controls fundamentally shake up a few items and swordplay for both better and worse.
So really for me the issue outside the "three dungeons > event > master sword > more dungeons > event/endgame" formula getting pretty rote, it was often how Link felt to control that had started slipping behind the times, the movement, the auto jump, how he interacts with the world, it was like 1998 was still going in 2011.

Saying all this, I enjoyed TP and SS, the latter's HD remaster was stellar and pretty much removed my main issues.

 

[AgeEighty]

It was definitely Skyward Sword. I actually quite liked Twilight Princess as I felt that it had some of the best items, dungeons, and boss battles in the series. Plus, it had Agitha. And the formula hadn't quite gotten stale for me yet.

Skyward Sword was the point where I said, all right, you guys are in a design rut with this series.