As an anime fan, its unsettling/disturbing how many people defend lolicon

[Jon_Sama]

If folks want something pervy that doesn't have all that underage shit, I can't recommend The Woman Called Fujiko Mine highly enough.

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Disregarding what one thinks of fanservice, can't say I endorse this recommendation. Easily the worst Lupin 3rd show I've had to suffer through

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Disregarding what one thinks of fanservice, can't say I endorse this recommendation. Easily the worst Lupin 3rd show I've had to suffer through

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Agreed. It's trying way too hard to be "sexy" and just comes off as uncomfortable to watch. I used to love Lupin a lot and I tried to watch that one and I made it through one episode before giving up.

 

[Swiggins]

Not only that, his mom's 28.

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...hol up

 

[Hypron]

One easy trick is to not watch/read any series that's got young looking girls on its covers. That removes a lot of potentially shitty series. Then you just play it by ear. Regardless of what people say, there's a shitton of material out there, especially when it comes to manga, so even when you remove the problematic trash (and there's a lot of it), there will still be many good series left.

 

[Deleted member 59339]

Disregarding what one thinks of fanservice, can't say I endorse this recommendation. Easily the worst Lupin 3rd show I've had to suffer through

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It's very upfront about exactly what it is, so I think anyone curious about it should look it up, and if it's not something they'd like, they'll probably figure that out immediately.

 

[Sunster]

Japan. Has. Serious. Issues. With. Women. And. Girls.

 

[King Alamat]

...hol up

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Kinda explains a lot about his home life. Also, and I didn't know this before checking her wiki page, the manga implies she has yakuza connections.

 

[Swiggins]

Kinda explains a lot about his home life. Also, and I didn't know this before checking her wiki page, the manga implies she has yakuza connections.

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Fucking hell. Yuuske and Ryuji Takasu have basically the same backstory. Only Ryuji's not a punk, he just looks like one.

 

[Manu]

Yeah it's a legit problem. Recently I was at a convention with my girlfriend as we both like anime quite a bit, and there was a stand selling hentai doujins of popular series. And I was like, this is outright selling child porn and nobody's batting an eye. I don't think there's another community where shit like that happens openly. It makes it hard to like anime a lot of the time.

 

[Yukari]

Guess, Series?

Hint: Both from Toei.

Actually she is 123 years old.

 

[DrForester]

Good time to remind people that Fruits Basket is back, and it's adorable and wholesome as fuck.

 

[Spenny]

I stopped hanging out with my anime friends (and kind of fell out of being a big anime fan as a result) because of this. They were 18 year olds talking about wanting to fuck Nunnally from Code Geass at a game night. That caused a 13 year anime drought in my life that I never really recovered from.

 

[Einbroch]

Check the poster on page 1 who accused this of being a bait thread.

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Quote me next time instead of taking avatar swipes behind my back. I thought this kind of avatar garbage was bannable on this site.

 

[Skittles]

First things first, let's stop calling it lolicon and use "pedophilia and pedophiles"

 

[rrc1594]

Keep it 100 dudes is weirdos

 

[Deleted member 19218]

You should go to Akihabara. I've seen shop displays showing naked children with the genitalia blurred but nothing is really left to imagination. It's bizarre how it's just out there for people walking past to see.

 

[TheAndyMan]

Not unreasonable premises(as others have noted), but haven't we had this thread like this a few times before?

 

[JCG]

Guess it helps a lot of them are drawn older than they look.
Blows my mind Jotaro is 17 and this is supposed to be a 15 year old at most

https://saintseiya.fandom.com/wiki/Saori_Kido

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I always come back to this example. The main cast of Saint Seiya legitimately look like young adults or at least somewhere between three to five years older than their official ages, because of their character designs. It was a real revelation to look up that information long after growing up with the show and then suddenly realizing they're supposed to be younger.

I think that is entirely fair when we are talking about legit ambiguous cases or teenage viewers. Yet other cases don't fall under that category. The problem is when you run into mature adults who, whether voluntarily or due to some sort of mental condition, are attracted to unquestionably underage individuals. Aside from any of the legal or ethical implications, it's unhealthy.

 

[fontguy]

Can we talk about how strongly and thoroughly Cardcaptor Sakura romanticized super inappropriate teacher/student relationships? Because that shit is fucking wild.

 

[Mekanos]

I stopped hanging out with my anime friends (and kind of fell out of being a big anime fan as a result) because of this. They were 18 year olds talking about wanting to fuck Nunnally from Code Geass at a game night. That caused a 13 year anime drought in my life that I never really recovered from.

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I'm trying to picture what kind of people would openly talk IRL about anime girls they want to fuck. It's not a good picture.

Quote me next time instead of taking avatar swipes behind my back. I thought this kind of avatar garbage was bannable on this site.

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I just think asking if this was a bait thread was a weird move, but hey. If you consider that avatar shaming, then it's not like I'm in any better of a position.

 

[DragonSJG]

I always come back to this example. The main cast of Saint Seiya legitimately look like young adults or at least somewhere between three to five years older than their official ages, because of their character designs. It was a real revelation to look up that information long after growing up with the show and then suddenly realizing they're supposed to be younger.

I think that is entirely fair when we are talking about legit ambiguous cases or teenage viewers. Yet other cases don't fall under that category. The problem is when you run into mature adults who, whether voluntarily or due to some sort of mental condition, are attracted to unquestionably underage individuals. Aside from any of the legal or ethical implications, it's unhealthy.

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Agreed which shows would you say fall into the latter of unhealthy?

 

[moogs]

Kentaro Miura's (Berserk) response to a legislation revision (2010) that attempted to revoke sale of obscene material depicting "non-existent youths" to minors:

The bill was criticized by the industry for designating things such as rape and incest as "harmful publications," weakening creativity, on the stance that art shouldn't be regulated. It's basically a freedom of speech thing, and the defense force that matters is the antiquated industry itself (creators/publishers/producers), not necessarily the consumers. I'm posting this since someone wondered what native audiences think. Scrutinizing the root sources—that might think they're in the right or doing a just service to society under the shield of expressive and critical art—should be prioritized instead.

The passed version's clause:

The bill has a non-binding supplemental resolution urging newly designated harmful publications to be "carefully regulated, with the work's merits based on artistic, social, educational, and satirical criticism criteria to be taken into account in the evaluation process."

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—————
Full one-shot comic in moon rune by Miura.
Wikipedia article on the bill(s).
ANN article on the original revision.
Follow-up ANN article on the newer revision (passed).

 

[Deleted member 11413]

It's heavily normalized in anime/manga culture. You have to remember that most anime/manga fans start out with the genre as kids or teenagers, and thus have no frame of reference for the more typical sexualization in shonen series being 'wrong' (as the material is targeted at them and they are the same age as or even younger than the characters). When they get older, it's so normalized and they've gotten so used to that sort of media that it doesn't even occur to them to question it. They joke about it because the media itself jokes about it.

Furthermore, if you've ever been into hentai then you have been exposed to that sort of gross material. In that way it also becomes 'normalized' and even if you didn't want to see it, you have seen it and thus feel similarly guilty or gross about that...but don't want to stop looking at hentai in general so you just act like it's not a big deal.

 

[King Metal Zel]

Can we talk about how strongly and thoroughly Cardcaptor Sakura romanticized super inappropriate teacher/student relationships? Because that shit is fucking wild.

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Yeah CLAMP went through a phase where if it was taboo, it was IN.

Creepy teacher / student romance hints? IN

Teenage girl in love with 745 year old who looks like a boy? IN

Female android who's literal on switch is... in that spot? IN

CLAMP be cray.

 

[JCG]

Agreed which shows would you say fall into the latter of unhealthy?

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I am actually watching very few new anime series these days, to be honest, but in retrospect...Made in Abyss comes to mind as a very problematic case. It has an interesting setting and premise, but the character designs speak for themselves. The source material apparently goes even further into some openly creepy territory.

 

[mrmoose]

Oh no don't worry, she isn't REALLY his little sister, she just acts like she is.







They're actually cousins so it's totally cool and fine.

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I know the creator did something later in the series to treat the female characters with no respect or whatever, but I still don't quite get how Sword Art Online went straight to helpless female/tentacle rape/sister-but-not-sister love in the second half of season 1. I mean, it had fanservice in the first half, but then it went completely for all the anime tropes.

 

[DragonSJG]

It's heavily normalized in anime/manga culture. You have to remember that most anime/manga fans start out with the genre as kids or teenagers, and thus have no frame of reference for the more typical sexualization in shonen series being 'wrong' (as the material is targeted at them and they are the same age as or even younger than the characters). When they get older, it's so normalized and they've gotten so used to that sort of media that it doesn't even occur to them to question it. They joke about it because the media itself jokes about it.

Furthermore, if you've ever been into hentai then you have been exposed to that sort of gross material. In that way it also becomes 'normalized' and even if you didn't want to see it, you have seen it and thus feel similarly guilty or gross about that...but don't want to stop looking at hentai in general so you just act like it's not a big deal.

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I don't think lolicon is normalized

 

[Daingurse]

It has been normalized to frustrating extent. Recently watched Made in The Abyss, and the suspect material in there was so disappointing to see. It's impossible to ignore how pervasive this shit is, and it has has really limited what I read and watch.

 

[DragonSJG]

It has been normalized to frustrating extent. Recently watched Made in The Abyss, and the suspect material in there was so disappointing to see. It's impossible to ignore how pervasive this shit is, and it has has really limited what I read and watch.

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Mainstream stuff/shonen doesn't have lolicon

 

[Spenny]

I'm trying to picture what kind of people would openly talk IRL about anime girls they want to fuck. It's not a good picture.

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The dude's that I hung out with were typical super virgins while I was a jock who really liked anime and had played yu-gi-oh since 6th grade. I didn't hang out with them other than the local comic shop on Saturday because they were kinda creepy and weren't into my other hobbies. A new guy who came to game night and fit right in with them. They started talking about which characters they would fuck (once again they were super virgins) and the dude said Nunnally. Then others agreed with him and started taking about other young characters. I noped out and never came back. I was falling out of the hobby anyway but that was a signal to me to get the fuck out of there. I looked one of them up recently and unsurprisingly the dude's Facebook was full of Trump support.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Mainstream stuff/shonen doesn't have lolicon

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I don't know if its the same umbrella but that last episode of Fire Force was pretty wtf
Like they designed a girl who has a power that is to be accidentally groped, and it happens even in serious scenes.

 

[Gundam]

Yeah it's gross. Honestly can't handle Evangelion because of it.

 

[DragonSJG]

I'm trying to picture what kind of people would openly talk IRL about anime girls they want to fuck. It's not a good picture.



I just think asking if this was a bait thread was a weird move, but hey. If you consider that avatar shaming, then it's not like I'm in any better of a position.

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Actually, while watching JOJO, a friend of mine openly said he wanted to screw Susie Q, who's an adult btw and he's a normal popular guy at my uni

 

[MarvelousIntent]

It's an unfortunately disgusting part of anime that probably isn't going away any time soon. Japan has some really weird issues with sex that I don't quite understand. It's something that I've learned to glaze over if it isn't too invasive.

Mainstream stuff/shonen doesn't have lolicon

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That depends on how you define it, as I think many people mean "underage" when they talk about loli-shit, as in characters 17 or younger.

 

[DragonSJG]

It's an unfortunately disgusting part of anime that probably isn't going away any time soon. Japan has some really weird issues with sex that I don't quite understand. It's something that I've learned to glaze over if it isn't too invasive.



That depends on how you define it, as I think many people mean "underage" when they talk about loli-shit, as in characters 17 or younger.

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I think most people mean like little kids or some stuff when they talk about loli. I mean, I'm not gonna call someone a loli or pedo if they think like Sailor Moon is attractive when she looks like a young adult or Orihime from Bleach when she looks like a young adult as well

 

[JCG]

The dude's that I hung out with were typical super virgins while I was a jock who really liked anime and had played yu-gi-oh since 6th grade. I didn't hang out with them other than the local comic shop on Saturday because they were kinda creepy and weren't into my other hobbies. A new guy who came to game night and fit right in with them. They started talking about which characters they would fuck (once again they were super virgins) and the dude said Nunnally. Then others agreed with him and started taking about other young characters. I noped out and never came back. I was falling out of the hobby anyway but that was a signal to me to get the fuck out of there. I looked one of them up recently and unsurprisingly the dude's Facebook was full of Trump support.

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To be fair, people being "super virgins" isn't the problem per se. Or at least it shouldn't be. Not everyone is going to have a serious opportunity to get dates or experiment during high school. Folks can be shy, have low self-esteem, etc. I think a number of us can relate to that part.

Going from this to being attracted to the "little sister" character is still quite a gross jump to make though. After that, finding out about the Trump support is just the icing on the cake.

 

[Mekanos]

The dude's that I hung out with were typical super virgins while I was a jock who really liked anime and had played yu-gi-oh since 6th grade. I didn't hang out with them other than the local comic shop on Saturday because they were kinda creepy and weren't into my other hobbies. A new guy who came to game night and fit right in with them. They started talking about which characters they would fuck (once again they were super virgins) and the dude said Nunnally. Then others agreed with him and started taking about other young characters. I noped out and never came back. I was falling out of the hobby anyway but that was a signal to me to get the fuck out of there. I looked one of them up recently and unsurprisingly the dude's Facebook was full of Trump support.

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People like that are why I spent much of my teens and early 20s being ashamed of publicly showing that I was into anime and video games. Now that I'm a bit older though I find it's pretty normal these days. Like, if I tell someone I watch anime, they don't assume I'm a weirdo pervert... at least, I hope they don't assume that.

It's one thing to say you find an anime character attractive (being generous and assuming they aren't underage), but the scene you describe... shudder.

Granted I don't watch anime on a very regular basis, it's more that I have certain franchises I'm drawn to, I don't watch anime regularly every season or anything like that. I can't even remember the last new anime I sat down to watch start to front. Maybe Devilman Crybaby (was a big fan of the original manga before that). Which... now that I think about it did have a few unfortunate scenes of sexualized teens (which is pretty accurate to a Go Nagai adaptation, I suppose).

 

[DragonSJG]

To be fair, people being "super virgins" isn't the problem per se. Or at least it shouldn't be. Not everyone is going to have a serious opportunity to get dates or experiment during high school. Folks can be shy, have low self-esteem, etc. I think a number of us can relate to that part.

Going from this to being attracted to the "little sister" character is still quite a gross jump to make though. After that, finding out about the Trump support is just the icing on the cake.

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Truth.

 

[RedSwirl]

Vinland Saga and Carole & Tuesday are all I watch these days.

All that's new anyway. The rest of my anime time is retro shit I've never seen before.

From what I can tell manga seems to be in a better state simply because of how much of it there is. Manga seems to have a wider range of demographics to appeal to than anime, supposedly being far more mainstream in Japan, so eventually you can find something that isn't, well... that.

For a while now people have speculated anime and other Japanese entertainment industries like video games and Jpop shrunk so much after the economic downturn that they've had to survive on ultra-otaku money, and so lolicons have become a significant part of their audience.

One easy trick is to not watch/read any series that's got young looking girls on its covers. That removes a lot of potentially shitty series. Then you just play it by ear. Regardless of what people say, there's a shitton of material out there, especially when it comes to manga, so even when you remove the problematic trash (and there's a lot of it), there will still be many good series left.

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Carole & Tuesday being probably one of the few exceptions actually. Though I have no idea how I would've reacted to seeing images of it had I not known it was Watanabe (or seen everybody else gushing about it I guess).

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I don't think lolicon is normalized

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If lots of people are openly defending it on reddit then...yeah it kind of is unfortunately.

 

[DragonSJG]

If lots of people are openly defending it on reddit then...yeah it kind of is unfortunately.

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The anime subreddits I'm on like MHA and Naruto oppose it

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Yeah it's gross. Honestly can't handle Evangelion because of it.

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Eh Evangelion's issue is really the merch and promotional material that came after that series, not really the series itself. Like yes there are sexual themes but that's because it's a show about navigating being a teenager in a traumatic environment.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

The anime subreddits I'm on like MHA and Naruto oppose it

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You seem to be getting defensive and I'm not sure why. Naruto and MHA have their problematic elements and literally tons of hentai drawn of their characters. The Naruto and MHA subreddits are no stranger to risque fan art of these characters. Do you actually want to have a conversation about this subject or not?

 

[Mekanos]

Eh Evangelion's issue is really the merch and promotional material that came after that series, not really the series itself. Like yes there are sexual themes but that's because it's a show about navigating being a teenager in a traumatic environment.

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I mean every episode ends with Rei spinning naked while the credits roll.

I get what they were going for but like. Yeah...

 

[Cheerilee]

Can we talk about how strongly and thoroughly Cardcaptor Sakura romanticized super inappropriate teacher/student relationships? Because that shit is fucking wild.

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Cardcaptor Sakura romanticized everything (or at least, it tried).

- Sakura is in love with her older brother's effeminate best friend (Yukito).

- Tomoyo has a deep and pure lesbian love for her best friend/cousin Sakura.

- Syaoran (like Sakura) also has gay love for Yukito.
- Syaoran falls in hetero love with Sakura (implying that Syaoran is bisexual?)

- Meiling is in love with her cousin (Syaoran).

- Sakura's older brother (Touya) was once in love with an older woman (Kaho Mizuki, his former teacher).
- Touya is also a massive sister-con, and is in love with Sakura.
- Touya is also in a gay relationship with Yukito (implying that he's bisexual).

- Yukito (in gay love with Touya) knows that Touya is a closet sister-con, and he knows that Sakura likes him (Yukito), and he likes how that makes Touya react.

- Tomoyo's mother used to be in lesbian love with her cousin, Sakura's mother, until Sakura's father (also Sakura's mother's teacher) stole her away.
- Tomoyo's mother also apparently fell in love with Sakura, because Sakura looks so much like her mother.
- Tomoyo is generally supportive of everything happening everywhere, but will gut her mom like a fucking pig if she crosses Tomoyo in this area. Bitch had her chance with Sakura's mom, and now it's Tomoyo's turn, and Tomoyo is better at this than mom ever was (for one thing, Tomoyo has learned to be happy for Sakura's happiness, and unlike her bitter old mom, Tomoyo supports the idea of losing Sakura to someone else).

- One of Sakura's classmates is in love with her teacher, and the teacher seems to be fully aware if it, but isn't doing anything to try and stop it.

I'm sure I missed a couple of angles.

And then one of the main themes of CCS is that all of the Cards are in love with Sakura, and would suffer horribly if they could not be with her, and to prevent that suffering, the concept of "love" would be removed from the world (aka, all of those links mentioned above, and so many more), leaving it a bland, dry, empty, meaningless place, which would be a fate worse than death for the entire world. Armageddon without a single thing being broken, or a single drop of spilled blood.

It's kind of hilarious that the English dub thought they could release this show while side-stepping any and all "problematic" elements (like homosexuality) through massive editing.

 

[Hugare]

It's absolutely disgusting

There are so many animes and games that I would like to watch and play, but I can't look away from this stuff

Thank God that my favorite anime Hajime no Ippo has none of those things.

Bless this anime

 

[DragonSJG]

You seem to be getting defensive and I'm not sure why. Naruto and MHA have their problematic elements and literally tons of hentai drawn of their characters. The Naruto and MHA subreddits are no stranger to risque fan art of these characters. Do you actually want to have a conversation about this subject or not?

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Oh no, was not getting defensive at all. Was just sharing my experience I mean honestly. I've seen it on R/Anime sadly though
Also, can you refresh my memory if you were saying this, but I don't recall lolicon in MHA or Naruto. Fanservice, problematic yeah won't deny or defend that, but not lolicon

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I mean every episode ends with Rei spinning naked while the credits roll.

I get what they were going for but like. Yeah...

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Sure, and what would come afterward played further and further into that territory, but I would still maintain that the series itself doesn't fall into the usual pandering traps...for the most part. There is some of it but overall it's a pretty serious portrayal of the subject matter.

I mean any serious depiction of teenage life is going to have sexual elements because that's part of teenage life. Shows like Degrassi or Skins or The O.C. (teenage soaps basically) all have varying degrees of sexuality to them. What matters is the context and framing of it.

 

[jaekeem]

I agree

the arguments people make to defend it (they're not real!!) are honestly sickening

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Oh no, was not getting defensive at all. Was just sharing my experience I mean honestly.
Also, can you refresh my memory if you were saying this, but I don't recall lolicon in MHA or Naruto. Fanservice, problematic yeah won't deny or defend that, but not lolicon

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No you are right on that account, but it does come up in other popular shonen to varying degrees, like Black Clover for example. Or Seven Deadly Sins.

Most anime fans just ignore it/make fun of it.